Am I the only one that doesn't need RoG integration?

[SirBuizelton]

Well I don't know about you, but if I was making something I would make the essential and cool things first to pitch the idea.

Which I assume they did with SW already, and if it is anything to go by then yes it is difficult to get excited for what is to come.

I feel there are many flaws inherent to how SW was designed and I don't think they can be fixed by simply adding a bunch of more items or characters.

To be frank... the reason why I (me me) would want RotG content personally in SW is so that there is at least some quality content in it.

I would really like if they just went balls to the wall with original content for SW but I honestly just don't feel like Capy can pull it off.

Sounds harsh, but that is how I feel after playing SW a couple hours then going back to RotG.

Well yes, of course they'll make sure to have the absolutely essential things on release as well as the most cool things they can manage, but just look at Don't starve and RoG when they were in beta compared to how they are now. The difference is enormous and they added SO many cool new things as time went on. The coolest things came latest imo.

I don't know what the issues you're talking about are, to be honest. I feel like all of the concepts are really solid, they just need tweaking and they need more content, which will come.

Why do people have this mentality about Capy? I don't get it. You all say you trust klei because they've always done a good job and I understand and share that feeling. Well that's why I trust Capy right now. Because I trust klei, and klei teamed up with Capy for a reason. They wouldn't do this if they didn't have a reason. Klei cares about their customers and the quality of their games. They didn't just pick Capy out of a hat and say "agh crap well whatever." I think it's fair to say klei probably knows what it's doing here.

Not everybody is going to love what shipwrecked is right now and I can understand that. That's fine. But I'm going to be patient and not just give up and denounce Capy because the game isn't what I want yet.

[EmilioEstevez]

Maybe you don't play Don't Starve to the insane completionist extent that a lot of other people do? I guess that's understandable. But please in future don't discourage it from happening for all of those that really, really want it.

 

No offense but just because some REALLY want it, it doesn't justify it.

 

It really depends on how many want it, and I don't know how Klei can determine this. I'm assuming it's a minority, and if so then you need a good argument to have Klei cater to your change. Like many people mentioned, that SW and RoG being two different worlds in art style and themes, putting them together gives a very messy, inconsistent look.

 

And what about when Klei finishes SW? That's even more things + RoG all in one world and you get a completely ugly mess.

 

Though, to all the people who are against this- it CAN work. Like I mentioned, there can big HUGE, but fewer islands where the sides would be beach, followed by jungle, and at the core in the inland would be RoG biomes, basically everything that comes with RoG.

 

I think the mistake some of us against this make is that when we read "RoG integration" we think random mixing of RoG and SW biomes where you'll have a beach biome and for some reason an RoG forest biome in the same island, which looks ugly and inconsistent. But, if there is some consistency among biome dispersion then like the "big islands" then it would at least be somewhat justified.

[SirBuizelton]

I do not think so.

I mean, yes, new content, sure. But even with new content, SW, won't be so dense if we had SW + RoG combined together.

there are two options here regarding Giants being in SW. Either they lazily copy and paste the old Giants in, the same way they used to work (which I guarantee you will not work) or they have to do a complete rework and overhaul of the bosses so that they'll work well in shipwrecked, which will take practically the same amount of work if not more than just making new bosses that weren't meant for an entirely different setting like the RoG bosses are. They will need entirely new AI, entirely new mechanics, entirely new animations for various different actions (they can either fly or swim but the Giants sure as heck aren't walking on the bottom of the ocean.) and models for those animations, it's a LOT of work. That's what I feel like a lot of people don't understand.

And while sure, I can totally agree that it'd be cool to see this "new" version of the giants that have somehow magically adapted to the shipwrecked environment, they're still the same bosses they've always been and there will be nothing truly new about them.

It's so much work just to add this one "map gen" option, and there will still be no new things to see and discover and strategize against. That's what I want from a NEW dlc. New things. Hopefully that's understandable in some right.

If people still want RoG in SW, I guarantee you a mod will pop up in no time to satisfy you.

[mitboy]

or they have to do a complete rework and overhaul of the bosses so that they'll work well in shipwrecked, which will take practically the same amount of work if not more than just making new bosses that weren't meant for an entirely different setting like the RoG bosses are. They will need entirely new AI, entirely new mechanics, entirely new animations for various different actions (they can either fly or swim but the Giants sure as heck aren't walking on the bottom of the ocean.) and models for those animations, it's a LOT of work. That's what I feel like a lot of people don't understand.

1. Why they can't walk on the bottom of the ocean? Heck, they are Giants!

 

What kind of AI you are talikng about? Boat in an extension of the player, pretty sure it works in same way as player. 

 

All you need to do for Dragonfly is remove barrier between sea and ocean, for Deerclops - add animation under his feet, how he freezes sea briefly. 

 

For Bear and Gmoose things are more complicated. Lazy way - make them walk on ocean's bottom, and use same attacks (Bear's area attack would be replaced with waves. That  I think it's pretty much only one mechanic that devs would have to change in Giant's combat)

Not lazy way - yes, add them ability to swim. That would requre some extra animation.

 

That is still plenty of work, yes. Which kinda contradics with your statement "there will be a mod in no time"

 

Would be interesting to hear an opinion from a real modder about that.

[SirBuizelton]

1. Why they can't walk on the bottom of the ocean? Heck, they are Giants!

What kind of AI you are talikng about? Boat in an extension of the player, pretty sure it works in same way as player.

All you need to do for Dragonfly is remove barrier between sea and ocean, for Deerclops - add animation under his feet, how he freezes sea briefly.

For Bear and Gmoose things are more complicated. Lazy way - make them walk on ocean's bottom, and use same attacks (Bear's area attack would be replaced with waves. That I think it's pretty much only one mechanic that devs would have to change in Giant's combat)

Not lazy way - yes, add them ability to swim. That would requre some extra animation.

That is still plenty of work, yes. Which kinda contradics with your statement "there will be a mod in no time"

Would be interesting to hear an opinion from a real modder about that.

there are.. A lot of problems with a thing that huge being able to just create ice thick enough to hold him on salt water beneath his feet as he walks, but okay, I suppose that's one way to do it, but it makes things even more complicated. Does he generate terrain underneath himself? What happens if something tries to move underneath him? Can you even melee him in a boat? You're so much faster than he is when you're in a boat, it's just a joke. Spearguns would make a fool of him and most Giants because they'd just be so slow on water. He needs new AI for when you go through fog to escape and how to interact with literally every single new creature and structure in the world. Small things that add up fast. what if he gets poisoned by a stinkray? All of his drops will be rot. He could probably even get killed just by standing on hail for long enough. What if SW wants to add its own boss monsters. You can't just have a bunch of bosses running around killing each other, it's a ridiculous and broken mechanic.

And that's just for the deerclops. There are so many more details than people realize when talking about implimenting something like this. It will take so much work and so much time that is simply better used to put something in the game that isn't already in it. It's just greedy to say "I want it all, you monkeys figure out how to do it, and if it cuts into the production time, content, and long term value of SW, well, too bad Capy we're just gonna get even more mad at you." You can't have it both ways, there's only so much time in the world and so much work you can expect from the developers. If they work on this, it means they won't be working on SW content.

Yes, it will take the modders plenty of time and work, but the difference here is that the time that modders spend on this extra, wholly unnecessary feature won't detract from the developers' work on shipwrecked in the slightest. Things like this are exactly the reason mods exist as far as I'm concerned.

And come on. Seriously. You're trying to tell me the Giants are tall enough to touch the bottom of the ocean with their feet and still keep even their head above water? The ocean is very, very deep. Figuring out how to make the Giants actually attack in a way that even makes them threatening while swimming is going to be a huge headache and take so much work. I think you're asking for so much more than you realize by just saying "just put the Giants in"

[mitboy]

there are.. A lot of problems with a thing that huge being able to just create ice thick enough to hold him on salt water beneath his feet as he walks, but okay, I suppose that's one way to do it, but it makes things even more complicated. Does he generate terrain underneath himself? What happens if something tries to move underneath him? Can you even melee him in a boat? You're so much faster than he is when you're in a boat, it's just a joke. Spearguns would make a fool of him and most Giants because they'd just be so slow on water. He needs new AI for when you go through fog to escape and how to interact with literally every single new creature and structure in the world. Small things that add up fast. what if he gets poisoned by a stinkray? All of his drops will be rot. He could probably even get killed just by standing on hail for long enough. What if SW wants to add its own boss monsters. You can't just have a bunch of bosses running around killing each other, it's a ridiculous and broken mechanic.

And that's just for the deerclops. There are so many more details than people realize when talking about implimenting something like this. It will take so much work and so much time that is simply better used to put something in the game that isn't already in it. It's just greedy to say "I want it all, you monkeys figure out how to do it, and if it cuts into the production time, content, and long term value of SW, well, too bad Capy we're just gonna get even more mad at you." You can't have it both ways, there's only so much time in the world and so much work you can expect from the developers. If they work on this, it means they won't be working on SW content.

Yes, it will take the modders plenty of time and work, but the difference here is that the time that modders spend on this extra, wholly unnecessary feature won't detract from the developers' work on shipwrecked in the slightest. Things like this are exactly the reason mods exist as far as I'm concerned.

And come on. Seriously. You're trying to tell me the Giants are tall enough to touch the bottom of the ocean with their feet and still keep even their head above water? The ocean is very, very deep. Figuring out how to make the Giants actually attack in a way that even makes them threatening while swimming is going to be a huge headache and take so much work. I think you're asking for so much more than you realize by just saying "just put the Giants in"

1. How you want it to be. It might generate little terrarian, or he might generate just enough under his feet to hold him, but not generate real terrarian. Boat has slower acceleration when you are in the sea, so melee might not be a good choice. About spearguns - you already can kill him with enough blow darts. Or buff him, we are still not sure how delevopers would balance new Giants, so I can't say for sure how this could work, neither you can say that It won't work. 

 

You know how he interacts with literally every creature in the world? He destroys it :\ No special coding here.

How would new Giants react to posion and hail? We can't say for sure, so I can't say for sure how would old Giant interact with posion and hail.

 

We don't know how they will add new giants to the world. It might be possible that old and new giants wouldn't even be able to confront each other.

 

Actually, I explained plenty of thing to you already how I imagine it might work

 

I consider this feature as "pretty necessary"

 

 

Also, it is DS ocean, so It could any kind of depth.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

Am I really the only one?  I don't think I would ever play with both on because it would just be too much at one time.    

 

Like, I've seen people come up with ways that the RoG end season boss monsters could be integrated into the  DLC and all I can think is just...no? 

 

I don't want the Deerclops attacking me with ice while I'm in the middle of a hurricane and not actively freezing.  I don't see why a giant Goose Moose or Bearger would be honking around on a tropical island.  

 

It just wouldn't make sense to me.

 

For me, the original Don't Starve (+RoG) is an entirely different ecosystem.  It reminded me very much of the average forest setting with a few other biomes thrown in there for diversity.  The very basic seasons of spring, summer, fall, and winter fit that aesthetic.  

 

What we have in SW is a totally different setting!  It's a tropical island chain, there wouldn't be winter like we've come to know it there.  Because the ecosystem is so different, I think all the "reskinning" people are complaining about (like that on the wildbores) is necessary in reinforcing the change.  

 

What I want to see from future updates is NEW bosses that correspond with the seasons.  I want new creatures that fit with the new aesthetic but to keep the redesigns of the staple creatures like pigs and rabbits. 

 

Anyone agree?

 

We don´t want ROG integrated in SW. We SW integrated to ROG or Vanilla...We want boats in the core game...

[mitboy]

We don´t want ROG integrated in SW. We SW integrated to ROG or Vanilla...We want boats in the core game...

Actually, I want RoG integrated in SW. 

Besides, someone said that developers said that it is not possible to implement new water into base game

[grekon]

Actually, I want RoG integrated in SW. 

Besides, someone said that developers said that it is not possible to implement new water into base game

Me imagining my reaction when seeing RoG in SW:

 

WTF did they do in this game? Are they so ******* lazy they can't even make a ******* half assed remake of a biome and add some new mobs? AND WHAT THE **** IS WITH THESE GIANTS, ARE YOU RETARDED TO THE POINT WHERE YOU CAN'T MAKE ONE OR TWO NEW ONES!!!!

 

If they are going to make a new world they should make a NEW world.

[D7X]

I'd be happy with a way to travel from a RoG world to a SW one (which at the moment, I thought, is what we are getting), the ability to bring resources that are in RoG to a SW world but not vice versa would be fine, and a set-piece that spawns in every world that has Deerclops in a hawaiian shirt eating ice cream on the beach. Other than that of course I want entirely new bosses/enemies/biomes/items/everything for shipwrecked.

 

But it's not like adding in a lot of RoG content wouldn't be an incredibly easy way to expand SW. It's just that some of it might feel out of place in the new setting. So anything that doesn't work when world hopping can just turn to ash, problem solved.

[Talavaj]

Me imagining my reaction when seeing RoG in SW:

 

WTF did they do in this game? Are they so ******* lazy they can't even make a ******* half assed remake of a biome and add some new mobs? AND WHAT THE **** IS WITH THESE GIANTS, ARE YOU RETARDED TO THE POINT WHERE YOU CAN'T MAKE ONE OR TWO NEW ONES!!!!

 

If they are going to make a new world they should make a NEW world.

 

Yeah... because it is so much better to waste time re-skinning carrots and plains into "meadow" and "sweet potatoes" instead of keeping it in the game and actually spending the time to create new assets.

 

They have made new things, which are the same as old things.... whooah.

[grekon]

Yeah... because it is so much better to waste time re-skinning carrots and plains into "meadow" and "sweet potatoes" instead of keeping it in the game and actually spending the time to create new assets.

 

They have made new things, which are the same as old things.... whooah.

We are clearly talking about something hypothetical here. I have full confidence in the developers, I believe they will make a world with lots of unique mobs and mechanics. Its a waste of time and space to put RoG into SW world.

 

You want RoG, play RoG and come back later when this dlc is finished. You are clearly basing your criticism by comparing a full finished game which is not just a dlc, its a BASE GAME + DLC, to an alpha version of just a DLC.

 

My focus was more on new mobs. Trying to nit-pick that hard is a little bit... well, silly.

 

[SirBuizelton]

1. How you want it to be. It might generate little terrarian, or he might generate just enough under his feet to hold him, but not generate real terrarian. Boat has slower acceleration when you are in the sea, so melee might not be a good choice. About spearguns - you already can kill him with enough blow darts. Or buff him, we are still not sure how delevopers would balance new Giants, so I can't say for sure how this could work, neither you can say that It won't work. 

 

You know how he interacts with literally every creature in the world? He destroys it :\ No special coding here.

How would new Giants react to posion and hail? We can't say for sure, so I can't say for sure how would old Giant interact with posion and hail.

 

We don't know how they will add new giants to the world. It might be possible that old and new giants wouldn't even be able to confront each other.

 

Actually, I explained plenty of thing to you already how I imagine it might work

 

I consider this feature as "pretty necessary"

 

 

Also, it is DS ocean, so It could any kind of depth.

 

The issue is if he generates terrain underneath him - which would make the most sense in this scenario - it will make melee battling completely impossible rather than just hard, and it will also run the risk of so many bugs and glitches like enemies and players getting stuck inside it or shoved into normal terrarain when they shouldn't be, etc. These (countless balancing issues) are the kind of things that will take so much time to work out and will frustrate the heck out of the people who are dying because of bugs. Also, blow darts are significantly harder to make than spearguns. Very significantly. It's not that I think the giants wont work, it's that I think it's not worth the time and the effort of the devs right now.

 

"You know how he interacts with literally every creature in the world? He destroys it :\ No special coding here."

 

See, this is where I really start to think that you have a weak understanding of how much actually goes into the behind-the-scenes code of games like don't starve. It's seriously not as simple as "making a creature just attack everything." It is so much more ridiculously complicated than that when you're actually coding the game and building an AI that works right. The deerclops alone has spawn conditions, chances, pathing code, agro ranges and durations, structures he's intended to destroy, and in a prioritized order. He needs to know how to stop trying to attack things when they're dead and move on and create new pathing instructions based on what the boss is supposed to do, the list goes on and on and on. I would try to explain it to you better but I don't even have a full understanding of it either. The important and key thing here is just that you realize that it's very complicated, and it takes a lot of time.

 

"Actually, I explained plenty of thing to you already how I imagine it might work  :|"

 

Again, I'm just a broken record at this point and I'm getting tired of repeating myself to be honest. Listen. If you want to make even just the Bearger able to swim, not even worrying about the Gmoose, we need entirely new mechanics just for that. If he's treading water, he can't just slam the ground. Is he slower? Faster? What if he falls asleep? Does he just drown? What about if, during the summer, the dragonfly shows up at your base and there's an eruption at the same time? The Dragonfly sounds completely broken in general for shipwrecked anyway, especially since the new Dry season mechanic isn't even here yet. I don't want to keep having to spell out how complex these balance issues are.

 

I could sit here and count the reasons why this shouldn't happen all day long but I really, really don't want to anymore. 

 

TL;DR: it's just not worth it right now. Maybe if shipwrecked is done, all the mechanics, items, creatures, and content that were planned are already in and it's feeling full and good, maybe then we can worry about whether or not we should create this bizarre Frankensteiny world gen option. Personally I don't want the devs spending their time on this yet.

[SirBuizelton]

I'd be happy with a way to travel from a RoG world to a SW one (which at the moment, I thought, is what we are getting), the ability to bring resources that are in RoG to a SW world but not vice versa would be fine, and a set-piece that spawns in every world that has Deerclops in a hawaiian shirt eating ice cream on the beach. Other than that of course I want entirely new bosses/enemies/biomes/items/everything for shipwrecked.

 

But it's not like adding in a lot of RoG content wouldn't be an incredibly easy way to expand SW. It's just that some of it might feel out of place in the new setting. So anything that doesn't work when world hopping can just turn to ash, problem solved.

 

Thank you.

 

And yes, what the devs are planning to do at the moment is just make it possible to go from SW to RoG and back in a similar fashion to how caves worked. Which is all I want.

[bigpak]

So wait, I'm confused, are they making it to where RoG content generates in shipwrecked or where you carry RoG stuff to shipwrecked, or are they merging RoG and shipwrecked together and there isn't a way to separate the two

[Billythesquig]

if you like reign of giants, play that, this ain't it, you are asking for the landscape of antarctica in california you want what you already know and like, embrace the NEW man deerclops lives in RoG let it stay there I say let the devs do what they do, they didn't let you down in the last 2 games and they thought em up all by themselves this one will be as good if not better

[mitboy]

 

If you don't want to - fine.

But I didn't ask that they should do integration in the next update