RoG + SW the "true" Don't Starve experience?

[J20hawkz]

I'm going to keep this short and sweet. RoG is just insanely good as far as DLC go. One could even say it is Don't Starve 2. If we were to add all the best parts of RoG into Don't Starve base game or, you know what, just rename RoG Don't Starve and delete every known record/trace of Don't Starve base game in existence, then add sea travelling mechanic to RoG, you literally have the best Don't Starve game all in one.

Why surfing wasn't added to Don't Starve is the mind blowing question of the century.

[MoloMan]

because you don't need it?

[J20hawkz]

because you don't need it?

Split up the biomes a bit and problem solved.

[MoloMan]

Split up the biomes a bit and problem solved.

 

Well I kinda like having a new world with islands instead of a huge world. It's kind of like making a survivial island on minecraft. + all the new seaons couldn't be possible in the base game.

[mitboy]

Well I kinda like having a new world with islands instead of a huge world. It's kind of like making a survivial island on minecraft. + all the new seaons couldn't be possible in the base game.

Whe shink old biome too, so they won't be different from new ones...

I just really want this to be true

[MycoLogical]

Time constraints? Ideas that were dismissed were brought back?

 

I just really hope that RoG and SW will be integrated into story mode. That would be awesome.

 

Oh and Through the Ages too!

[TheRebelFlesh]

My only problem with the whole "just add seafaring to RoG or add RoG elements to SW" is that...it just doesn't fit aesthetically. 

 

The original DS (+RoG) is primarily set in a temperate forest (with a few scattered other biomes thrown in for diversity).  The seasons, items, friendly mobs, and boss monsters all fit with that setting. 

 

SW is set on a tropical island chain.  The seasons, items, friendly mobs, and monsters all fit with that setting.  

 

There's no reason a Goose Moose would be on a tropical island, just as there's no reason to find a jungle tree in a temperature deciduous forest. 

[ThaumicParrot]

I like shipwrecked just as it is in terms of merging. I love it perfectly, as it is pretty much a seperate game that uses the same launcher.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

My only problem with the whole "just add seafaring to RoG or add RoG elements to SW" is that...it just doesn't fit aesthetically. 

 

The original DS (+RoG) is primarily set in a temperate forest (with a few scattered other biomes thrown in for diversity).  The seasons, items, friendly mobs, and boss monsters all fit with that setting. 

 

SW is set on a tropical island chain.  The seasons, items, friendly mobs, and monsters all fit with that setting.  

 

There's no reason a Goose Moose would be on a tropical island, just as there's no reason to find a jungle tree in a temperature deciduous forest. 

 

I think you are right, but a fair balance could be found. Stuff like Jellyfish, Dogfish, Sea Hounds, Swordfish and Whales would fit in that environment. Get rid of the more specifically tropical mobs and it would be fine.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

And having SW incorporated into ROG with a entrance system like caves would suck and to be honest, isn´t even worth incorporating. 

[Lacost]

The answer is simple: Power Creep

 

People tend to find FOOS (first order optimal strategy) and keep them. Like finding beefalo, collect their poop and let yourself get protected by them from the hounds.

 

Now you have a lot of people in RoG that have their old habbits and strategies that work perfectly fine. If you add something new the players won't react to it. Until:

 

* The new thing is noticeably more powerful.

* You need it to experience some game mechanics.

 

Boats would work perfectly fine in RoG + SW because you have to craft them in order to travel the waters.

Same for the seashell armor because you need it against poison attacks.

Or the obsidian fire pit. It basically is doing nothing special at all but it is considerably more powerful than the normal fire pit.

 

 

But there are other items in SW that are not powerful enough and don't serve any crucial purpose.

 

 

The snakeskin hat. --> absolutely useless in RoG. You have the eyebrella. No one will ever need any new items for rain protection.

 

Every food item in SW is useless in RoG. There are some powerful recipes though but one has to picture the time when people are discovering the seas:

 

At the mid- to endgame. This is basically a time period where you already have a sturdy food supply and don't need any more food sources. Of course you will pick up things like seaweed or limpets but you won't be searching specifically for them and carry them into your base.

 

 

I just want to say that there are serious balance problems even with the current state of SW being a separate "cave-like" world compared to RoG. This would even get worse in a fully integrated world. You can't just say:

 

"Hey pal! Let's just merge everything together and everything is fine! More content = more fun!"

 

No, this is not working. Content is fun but you need the right balance for it. This is probably the point why SW was planned as standalone. You are not bound to the RoG balance and can make completely different bottlenecks for players. Not only by new items but also through old ones (gold is harder to get in SW compared to RoG because of the Yaarctopus).

 

 

Would a fully integrated SW world enhance RoG? Yes, probably.

Would it deliver more content and "Don't Starve experience" than the two separated worlds? Definitely not.

[_Q_]

I have Islands mod  for RoG and will look into adding the water from SW to it at some point in the future.

Sailing in RoG would be fun, but the entrance points to the sea should be limited, and most of the RoG sea should be deep waters with waves, almost no sea weeds and other tropical sea stuff.

[OrderedChaos]

I've elaborated at length in other threads why I think this is a bad idea, but I'm going to keep it short and sweet. I disagree.

 

I'm not posting this to be inflammatory, just so that klei devs looking over this thread (and others like it) will see that most people don't agree with this suggestion.

[J20hawkz]

Ok if this was possible and I hope Klei consider it.

For me personally RoG has everything I want from Don't Starve and (much) more, so RoG is the complete Don't Starve experience and imo should be referred to as the base game. Now the way I see it, IF Klei could integrate SW content into RoG that would complete this game (until new content is released obviously).

What I'm suggesting and I've said this before are access points from RoG into SW world. Similar to sink holes but obviously appropriate to SW. So a sort of stone alcove or even a waterfall. Now Klei has said they will work on this but if they decide to go from Don't Starve into RoG and SW, it wouldn't fit right.

It should be:

Don't Starve (access point) Shipwrecked

Reign of Giants (access point) Shipwrecked

Thoughts?

[OrderedChaos]

I'm not totally sure I understand what you mean. They have said that RoG and SW will both be able to be active in a single game once the connection is made.

 

That means you will be able to have a RoG (or vanilla) world, and travel back and forth between SW. I don't think they've explicitly said if it works like caves where the old world persists, or if it works like teleportato where a new world is generated each time you travel.

 

Personally I kinda hope it's the former and not the latter.

[J20hawkz]

I'm not totally sure I understand what you mean. They have said that RoG and SW will both be able to be active in a single game once the connection is made.

That means you will be able to have a RoG (or vanilla) world, and travel back and forth between SW. I don't think they've explicitly said if it works like caves where the old world persists, or if it works like teleportato where a new world is generated each time you travel.

Personally I kinda hope it's the former and not the latter.

I would like it if the old world does persist. So you can continue where you were in a RoG world if you decided to travel to SW world. Then this would mean world item compatibility....

So ok, what if you couldn't carry over SW "stuff" into RoG but you could carry RoG "stuff" into SW?

[Yokoblue]

The answer is simple: Power Creep

 

People tend to find FOOS (first order optimal strategy) and keep them. Like finding beefalo, collect their poop and let yourself get protected by them from the hounds.

 

Now you have a lot of people in RoG that have their old habbits and strategies that work perfectly fine. If you add something new the players won't react to it. Until:

 

* The new thing is noticeably more powerful.

* You need it to experience some game mechanics.

 

Boats would work perfectly fine in RoG + SW because you have to craft them in order to travel the waters.

Same for the seashell armor because you need it against poison attacks.

Or the obsidian fire pit. It basically is doing nothing special at all but it is considerably more powerful than the normal fire pit.

 

 

But there are other items in SW that are not powerful enough and don't serve any crucial purpose.

 

 

The snakeskin hat. --> absolutely useless in RoG. You have the eyebrella. No one will ever need any new items for rain protection.

 

Every food item in SW is useless in RoG. There are some powerful recipes though but one has to picture the time when people are discovering the seas:

 

At the mid- to endgame. This is basically a time period where you already have a sturdy food supply and don't need any more food sources. Of course you will pick up things like seaweed or limpets but you won't be searching specifically for them and carry them into your base.

 

 

I just want to say that there are serious balance problems even with the current state of SW being a separate "cave-like" world compared to RoG. This would even get worse in a fully integrated world. You can't just say:

 

"Hey pal! Let's just merge everything together and everything is fine! More content = more fun!"

 

No, this is not working. Content is fun but you need the right balance for it. This is probably the point why SW was planned as standalone. You are not bound to the RoG balance and can make completely different bottlenecks for players. Not only by new items but also through old ones (gold is harder to get in SW compared to RoG because of the Yaarctopus).

 

 

Would a fully integrated SW world enhance RoG? Yes, probably.

Would it deliver more content and "Don't Starve experience" than the two separated worlds? Definitely not.

^

This is probably the best answer to "Merge SW with RoG" idea.

 

To add to it:

 

The game objectives are different:

- RoG promote base building, stabilizing and being able to kill the strongest monsters to get the best items

- SW promote exploration, finding items via chest hunt, finding lottery machine and eventually volcano

 

Merging them would be a mistake imo. If you do, it should be seperate world (like caves). Problem is that once you start in RoG, most items in SW are useless... so no point in going there beside having fun in the ocean...

[mitboy]

 

 

 

The snakeskin hat. --> absolutely useless in RoG. You have the eyebrella. No one will ever need any new items for rain protection.

 

Every food item in SW is useless in RoG. There are some powerful recipes though but one has to picture the time when people are discovering the seas:

 

At the mid- to endgame. This is basically a time period where you already have a sturdy food supply and don't need any more food sources. Of course you will pick up things like seaweed or limpets but you won't be searching specifically for them and carry them into your base.

 

 

I just want to say that there are serious balance problems even with the current state of SW being a separate "cave-like" world compared to RoG. This would even get worse in a fully integrated world. You can't just say:

 

"Hey pal! Let's just merge everything together and everything is fine! More content = more fun!"

 

No, this is not working. Content is fun but you need the right balance for it. This is probably the point why SW was planned as standalone. You are not bound to the RoG balance and can make completely different bottlenecks for players. Not only by new items but also through old ones (gold is harder to get in SW compared to RoG because of the Yaarctopus).

 

 

Would a fully integrated SW world enhance RoG? Yes, probably.

Would it deliver more content and "Don't Starve experience" than the two separated worlds? Definitely not.

By your logic, rainhat with moles is useless too, since we have eyebrella. Eyebrella is obtained only after  defeating a giant.

 

Half of the recipes in original DS is useless too.Also, it is depending on which island you placed your base. Maybe you decided to set base on the beach with lumpets and stuff.

 

So it is a bad idea because I won't search for seaweed in late game? I don't usually pick up carrots or berries in late game in RoG too. So I don't see the problem.

 

Yes, there's balance problems. Of course, it needs to be solved. That is all I can say. Some stuff have to be balanced in integrated world. So yeah. Balance. Umm... yeah. I don't get why you have this agrument in your reply!!!!!

 

... and which factors led to your conclusion "Definitely not"? I didn't get it.

[mitboy]

 

The game objectives are different:

- RoG promote base building, stabilizing and being able to kill the strongest monsters to get the best items

- SW promote exploration, finding items via chest hunt, finding lottery machine and eventually volcano

 

Merging them would be a mistake imo. If you do, it should be seperate world (like caves). Problem is that once you start in RoG, most items in SW are useless... so no point in going there beside having fun in the ocean...

RoG still has exploring factor, SW has base building factor. So yeah. Nothing super different.

 

Yup, this could be considered as problem. 

[Lacost]

By your logic, rainhat with moles is useless too, since we have eyebrella. Eyebrella is obtained only after  defeating a giant.

 

It depends on which season you start. If you start in autumn you will never want to craft the rain hat because deerclops spawns in the next season. If you have a spring start the rain hat can be crucial as long as you feel lightnings are an issue for you. Otherwise an umbrella with football helmet will do perfectly fine.

 

However this is only true for your first seasons. As soon as you venture out on the seas you will most likely already have established yourself in the world, bringing an eyebrella with you. So no one will ever feel the urge to craft a snake skin hat.

 

 

Half of the recipes in original DS is useless too.

 

 

That's basically what RoG and other power creep updates (caves/ruins) did to the very original DS and what an imaginery SW merge would do to RoG and vanilla. Every time something is directly added to the game there will be a power creep.

 

 

 

So it is a bad idea because I won't search for seaweed in late game? I don't usually pick up carrots or berries in late game in RoG too. So I don't see the problem.

 

No, because nobody will ever need it (need not use). You can basically merge the ocean mechanic in RoG and leave it completely barren of seaweed and limpets and nobody would care. You most likely will bring your stack of jerkys from hunting giants to the sea and don't need any raw foods. Just like the caves or ruins which don't offer much food either.

 

On the other hand berries and carrots are needed in your very first days of survival. Later on they can be safely ignored and this is the point: You will venture out on the seas "later on" so all the weak but basic starter stuff will be redundant.

 

 

 

I don't get why you have this agrument in your reply!!!!!

 

Because you can't balance out a snakeskin hat. You either have to increase it's availability or give it special features because an eyebrella will always beat it if it only offer lightning and rain protection.

 

And as I stated before such balances can't be done so easily. Not because it will afford much work but because it is partly impossible to have 2 or more similar items that can coexist legitimately without one being stronger or weaker.

 

 

 

and which factors led to your conclusion "Definitely not"? I didn't get it.

 

SW is a weaker build than RoG. Many items are harder to get especially in such high quantities as we are used to in RoG.

 

Take hounds tooth:

 

There are no hunting parties and hound mounds in SW. Those two delivered a huge amount of teeth you need for your tooth traps.

 

But you can still farm hounds teeth in SW only less efficient. You can throw meats into the ocean which will spawn sharx that you can kill for a 1/8 chance of dropping a tooth. Of course this is extremely expensive (you need 20 or more morsels, strong boats etc.) but it is doable in a reasonable amount of time.

 

In a SW + RoG merge (or even the cave-like system that is planned) nobody will ever use that awesome mechanic because you will most likely get out of your first winter with a stack of teeth from farming hunting parties.

 

This way SW is delivering us content by letting us drop meats into the ocean to spawn a hound-fish that can be farmed for hounds teeth. A part of content that would have never been delivered to us by merging SW into RoG directly.

[mitboy]

It depends on which season you start. If you start in autumn you will never want to craft the rain hat because deerclops spawns in the next season. If you have a spring start the rain hat can be crucial as long as you feel lightnings are an issue for you. Otherwise an umbrella with football helmet will do perfectly fine.

 

However this is only true for your first seasons. As soon as you venture out on the seas you will most likely already have established yourself in the world, bringing an eyebrella with you. So no one will ever feel the urge to craft a snake skin hat.

 

You will have to venture out of seas immediately, there won't be any big RoG island with small SW islands around. There will be small islands with SW biomes and small islands with RoG biomes (Maybe also some kind of paradise island, but you won't spawn here). Your other points seem to be about that view on the integration, which is not how I imagine it.

 

Also Giants have only 66% chance to spawn normally.

 

You will spawn on our basic SW island and during sea journey, you'll find islands with RoG biomes and islands with SW biomes. You will craft Rain hat or Snake skin hat, depending which island seemed to be more suitable for you to camp.

 

 

[TheRebelFlesh]

You will have to venture out of seas immediately, there won't be any big RoG island with small SW islands around. There will be small islands with SW biomes and small islands with RoG biomes (Maybe also some kind of paradise island, but you won't spawn here). Your other points seem to be about that view on the integration, which is not how I imagine it.

 

Also Giants have only 66% chance to spawn normally.

 

You will spawn on our basic SW island and during sea journey, you'll find islands with RoG biomes and islands with SW biomes. You will craft Rain hat or Snake skin hat, depending which island seemed to be more suitable for you to camp.

 

But that makes zero sense.  So would one island be experiencing a RoG style winter and the other a SW Hurricane season?  You can't have both at the same time, it would be a nightmare.  How would seasons work?  

 

Beyond that, it makes absolutely zero sense for MOST of the RoG biomes to exist on a tropical island chain.  The way I see it, regular DS has in a similar ecosystems to North America.  The primary biomes that dominate the map are temperate forests (makes sense because Klei is Canadian).  Then there are the other biomes that are usually much smaller: Savannahs, Swamps, Deciduous Forests, etc.

 

SW is a tropical island.  Plain and simple, there are no Deciduous Forests or Goose Moose or winter monsters.  It wouldn't work right in the slightest.  

 

The Giants everyone seems to want probably wouldn't work right either.  They would be awkward to fight at sea, if not impossible.  

 

Anyway, that not how the devs plan to integrate the games.  It will likely be more similar to caves because what you are suggesting just wouldn't work.  

[mitboy]

But that makes zero sense.  So would one island be experiencing a RoG style winter and the other a SW Hurricane season?  You can't have both at the same time, it would be a nightmare.  How would seasons work?  

 

Beyond that, it makes absolutely zero sense for MOST of the RoG biomes to exist on a tropical island chain.  The way I see it, regular DS has in a similar ecosystems to North America.  The primary biomes that dominate the map are temperate forests (makes sense because Klei is Canadian).  Then there are the other biomes that are usually much smaller: Savannahs, Swamps, Deciduous Forests, etc.

 

SW is a tropical island.  Plain and simple, there are no Deciduous Forests or Goose Moose or winter monsters.  It wouldn't work right in the slightest.  

 

The Giants everyone seems to want probably wouldn't work right either.  They would be awkward to fight at sea, if not impossible.  

 

Anyway, that not how the devs plan to integrate the games.  It will likely be more similar to caves because what you are suggesting just wouldn't work.  

You should read other comments first. 

Weather is universal: Winter season will have no rains, but hail, snow, wind. Everything else works everywhere as it is in SW.

 

Also, that kind of implied that with integration you will have to put atmosphere of both Trophical island and Forest aside to create mix This is why I want it as an option, since plenty of people would not want have mixed atmospehere.

 

Giants - chage their attacks and add animation in water. For Dragonfly and Deerclops it would be easy since Deerclops would freeze sea under his feet, so he would not need swimming animation. Dragonfly could fly.

 

GMoose and Bear are more complicated. They will need different animation for swimming and possibly different attacks in sea.

 

So yeah, my suggestion would work fine, if we put atmosphere aside.

 

[Richie84]

From my understanding, aren't there already a lot of RoG items in SW, if not all of them? Therefore you already have some sort of integration already. A full integration of both contents would be neat, but I agree unless you do it like caves it would be some work to code all of that in. It would make a RoG + SW combination like a separate gameplay itself, or at least that seems like the best way to implement both. Instead of just slapping both together, have like a specific way that's programmed for RoG and SW to work together that's preplanned, which would make the combination of DLCs be its own standalone project. That seems to be the best way for a full integration.

 

Whatever they do though, as long they add boats in RoG so I can get from one landmass to another without having to find a wormhole. That would make me happy, even if they added nothing else from SW into RoG. That's just my opinion.

[Richie84]

After I was typing my previous post, I just had an idea of a neat way to integrate both worlds that's easy and provides a new experience. When you load RoG and SW together, make it islands just like the current SW style but instead of island seasons you have the normal RoG seasons. If you wanted you could have just random islands with RoG biomes on there, like a desert island. It doesn't have to make sense really. Any kind of combination experience would make the gameplay adjustable and unique in my opinion and would be a cheap way to add content and a new experience.