I hope the DLC will make the game brutally hard

[Cynical Cynicist]

Bear in mind that the devs themselves worked on it. I'ts like comparing a special operations squad's to a recruit's work. Doing the same thing with unexperienced people will need a lot of time and a big team.

But overall it was a great move. Not only they showed what can be done with the game's engine but also they gave material for streamers to showcase. Even Pewdpiepie played that and the vid has half a million views already. It's good marketing for the game.

 

I know what you mean. But you can understand where I'm coming from too, right? The notion that a mod this awesome will ONLY come as a demo from the devs, perhaps this being the first and only time it will ever happen. It really raised my standards (which were already pretty high) and now I've lost most incentive to even browse through mods that the community has created in the first place.

 

I also made a generalization when I said it was a bad move. I guess it was bad in terms of what I wrote above, but of course it will potentially broaden the audience for the game as well. Now that I think about it, with new horizons the game might even attract better modders that can produce similar quality. That would be sweet.

[TeoSS69]

I know what you mean. But you can understand where I'm coming from too, right? The notion that a mod this awesome will ONLY come as a demo from the devs, perhaps this being the first and only time it will ever happen. It really raised my standards (which were already pretty high) and now I've lost most incentive to even browse through mods that the community has created in the first place.

I'm not sure what to respond here really, since the Screecher is a completely different game per se with different mechanics. In this case yeah, the community might never reach the same level. Though if it gets enough fame for it's heavily moddable features Don't Starve can be the indie version of CS with all sorts of mods for it if it gets to the right people's ears...

 

[the truthseeker]

What I was saying is the people who made this used the same tools we have access too, not specialized engines and development applications. 

 

Of course, if you have years of experience as well as a working company for resources, you'll have a far more polished end result. However, like future artists, we all have access to the same tools now at least, and we could make great work should we dedicate ourselves to do so, or at least have access to a lot of good stuff (even if not ever the developer level of say a John Romero.)

 

The point is a lot of future professionals in the modern gaming world cut their development teeth in developing game worlds and game mods from things just like this. I'm not saying everybody will be a gaming Picasso, but the tools we now have access to here can make a lot of good stuff for anybody willing to take theirt time and learn.

 

Having a bunch of mediocre to crap-level stuff in the offering is gaming par for the course when you look at what is just haphazardly thrown out there by the masses who don't take the time (or lack the ability) to develop well. 

 

I'm no optimist or cynic, but a realist, and have seen both of these responses in my gaming. I hope people will not blanket judgement what is coming from "everybody" one way or another, and simply let people have a chance to show what they can do.

 

And based on what they offer, respond appropriately. 

 

 

 

[simplex]

I'm not sure what to respond here really, since the Screecher is a completely different game per se with different mechanics. In this case yeah, the community might never reach the same level. Though if it gets enough fame for it's heavily moddable features Don't Starve can be the indie version of CS with all sorts of mods for it if it gets to the right people's ears...

There's no reason to assume the community couldn't do something like the Screecher. It's not a complex mod, just a laborious one, especially (though certainly not exclusively) on the artists' side. However, it's a total conversion mod. Something like that is only done to either showcase the potential of a game engine or to take advantage of a robust one. Since there are better and more flexible engines out there than Don't Starve's, I don't see much motivation for a non Klei team to do something like that, but it could be done (some technical details aside, such as the use of custom colour cubes, which is something that the Screecher does but modders can't by lack of tools).

And Cynical Cynicist, before calling the modding community crap, you should at least take a closer look at it. The main reason for the current lack of released mods of greater amplitude is because they take a team, not just a coder. Without at least one good artist it's almost impossible to do something meaningful, and the artistic community in here, while very talented, for some reason is not in inclined towards mod collaborations. Only in very few cases have both communities worked together to build something more ambitious. It may be true that this community has few good programmers, but I see the lack of collaborations as the main issue. Luckily, after Up and Away started to move forward other collaborations are starting to flourish.

[Cynical Cynicist]

There's no reason to assume the community couldn't do something like the Screecher. It's not a complex mod, just a laborious one, especially (though certainly not exclusively) on the artists' side. However, it's a total conversion mod. Something like that is only done to either showcase the potential of a game engine or to take advantage of a robust one. Since there are better and more flexible engines out there than Don't Starve's, I don't see much motivation for a non Klei team to do something like that, but it could be done (some technical details aside, such as the use of custom colour cubes, which is something that the Screecher does but modders can't by lack of tools).

And Cynical Cynicist, before calling the modding community crap, you should at least take a closer look at it. The main reason for the current lack of released mods of greater amplitude is because they take a team, not just a coder. Without at least one good artist it's almost impossible to do something meaningful, and the artistic community in here, while very talented, for some reason is not in inclined towards mod collaborations. Only in very few cases have both communities worked together to build something more ambitious. It may be true that this community has few good programmers, but I see the lack of collaborations as the main issue. Luckily, after Up and Away started to move forward other collaborations are starting to flourish.

 

You're implying that if they had the right tools and enough people working towards a common goal, that they could create wonderful things. There's an underlying problem there, namely the lack of any ingenuity or compelling purpose to most mods being created. That's the key word I used before, most. It's what I almost always see, everyday, when I hesitantly check the mods page. But I know there are talented people out there, I'm not dismissing everyone as crap. Hopefully, the Up & Away mod will be just as good as it's reckoned to be and provide a fresh experience. I might not even like it that much, but at least I can appreciate the effort. I'm not asking for a masterpiece, with beautiful illustrations, award-winning soundtracks or anything like that. If it's fundamentally a fun and interesting concept, even if it's a mod in the form of a basic sketch or pitch, I would probably support it and follow its progress. What I do label as crap is the lazy design, preschool quality drawings and reiterated ideas of many, that fail to convey something meaningful. It's all subjective in a way, but what I can say is that if I think something is lacking, it's my specific opinion and doesn't dictate yours.

 

p.s.: If it sounds weird, I have a fever right now so feel free to clarify something

[simplex]

That's the key word I used before, most.

Initially, yes, but then you said

Now that I think about it, with new horizons the game might even attract better modders that can produce similar quality. That would be sweet.

But anyway. There are some interesting mods being created. You should check them out, including Up and Away, which while still prealpha may be "tested" (it's certainly not balanced enough yet to be played without god mode or something like that, so "test" is really the proper term).

What I was saying is the people who made this used the same tools we have access too, not specialized engines and development applications.

Of course, if you have years of experience as well as a working company for resources, you'll have a far more polished end result. However, like future artists, we all have access to the same tools now at least, and we could make great work should we dedicate ourselves to do so, or at least have access to a lot of good stuff (even if not ever the developer level of say a John Romero.)

The point is a lot of future professionals in the modern gaming world cut their development teeth in developing game worlds and game mods from things just like this. I'm not saying everybody will be a gaming Picasso, but the tools we now have access to here can make a lot of good stuff for anybody willing to take theirt time and learn.

Having a bunch of mediocre to crap-level stuff in the offering is gaming par for the course when you look at what is just haphazardly thrown out there by the masses who don't take the time (or lack the ability) to develop well.

I'm no optimist or cynic, but a realist, and have seen both of these responses in my gaming. I hope people will not blanket judgement what is coming from "everybody" one way or another, and simply let people have a chance to show what they can do.

And based on what they offer, respond appropriately.

You should drop by the mods forum (or some of its subforums). We could benefit from some good ideas, as well as some truths. ;]

[TrueMisfit]

That image was hilarious, sometimes I feel like I should do that just so I can have a house to stay in!

[the truthseeker]

You should drop by the mods forum (or some of its subforums). We could benefit from some good ideas, as well as some truths. ;]

 

Appreciate the cute reply and thank you.

 

. I'll respond without one of my cute-sy remarks (this time, don't worry, as there are plenty of other threads for me to be a smart-ass) and take a serious response as thanks to people like you for both your modding work and your voice in the community:

 

 

While I tend to like playing a game Vanilla until I master it and/or get bored, then add mods, I actually have been lurking and trying mods in the game (then the next version is released and I have to hope the modders update their games so it will work as well as me re-installing the disabled mods.) While I have been (at times) prolific in my presence here, I've been quite quiet on that subforum area. 

 

Bluntly speaking, one of the things I stink at is development/programming (I've tried multiple times) with enough wisdom to recognize this (besides giving feedback as a player.) 

 

However, now that we're at a more stable release due (ironically) to the end of semi-weekly updates, I might spend more time overtly posting in that section. I just have to respect my limitations.

 

But if I can continue to help the DS community, I'll be glad to do so.

 

If I could help in Up and Away or elsewhere still in any future suggestions or contributions, do let me know. (For instance, I find coming up with creative writings and dialog quite an easy thing.) 

 

But even if I can't, know I have been keeping an eye on it and look forward to U&A's continued collaboration.  

[Cynical Cynicist]

Initially, yes, but then you said

 

Sorry can you clarify what you mean by that, I can't remember what we were talking about.

[Sporb]

The main reason for the current lack of released mods of greater amplitude is because they take a team, not just a coder. Without at least one good artist it's almost impossible to do something meaningful, and the artistic community in here, while very talented, for some reason is not in inclined towards mod collaborations.

 

Uh, I don't think that's entirely true. Yes, you will probably need an artist on board for a high quality mod, but you don't need one to change things in a fun way or add new content. For example, if you wanted to add a new creature, you could, in theory, use the art assets for an existing creature. Or, you could recolor an existing creature, which wouldn't really require artistic ability. Sure, it might not look nice, but it could still be fun to play.

 

You should drop by the mods forum (or some of its subforums). We could benefit from some good ideas, as well as some truths. ;]

Really? This actually surprises me. In my experience, ideas are usually a dime a dozen. The hard part isn't thinking up ideas, it's coding them/drawing them/balancing them/etc. I've certainly been reluctant to post ideas because I didn't think anyone would care. Are modders really looking for ideas?

I'm not trying to sound contrary, I'm just a little shocked.

[Craig_Perry]

If I could help in Up and Away

when we enter alpha testing we will need more testers and lots of feedback, so there's still a window of opportunity yet!

[the truthseeker]

when we enter alpha testing we will need more testers and lots of feedback, so there's still a window of opportunity yet!

Didn't realize you were that close. Testing is something I have done for a long time, and when the time comes would be glad to help here (also.) 

[Craig_Perry]

Didn't realize you were that close. Testing is something I have done for a long time, and when the time comes would be glad to help here (also.) 

close, well... our plan (no promises) is end of november for alpha bear in mind it would be veeery basic. you could join in with testing right now, provided you are able to use github anyway and are able to put up with a high chance of bugs and unimplemented bits

[simplex]

Uh, I don't think that's entirely true. Yes, you will probably need an artist on board for a high quality mod, but you don't need one to change things in a fun way or add new content. For example, if you wanted to add a new creature, you could, in theory, use the art assets for an existing creature. Or, you could recolor an existing creature, which wouldn't really require artistic ability. Sure, it might not look nice, but it could still be fun to play.

I'm not saying it can't be done. None of my released mods so far have art assets, which is why I tend to focus on game mechanics. But to do truly game changing things you do require new quality assets as well as quality coding, so a collaboration is essential.

Really? This actually surprises me. In my experience, ideas are usually a dime a dozen. The hard part isn't thinking up ideas, it's coding them/drawing them/balancing them/etc. I've certainly been reluctant to post ideas because I didn't think anyone would care. Are modders really looking for ideas?

I'm not trying to sound contrary, I'm just a little shocked.

 

Ideas are plenty, indeed, but good ideas taking into account the mod goals coupled with a grasp on how the feasibility of their implementation compares to their net gain in gameplay value are certainly not that common.

 

If I could help in Up and Away or elsewhere still in any future suggestions or contributions, do let me know. (For instance, I find coming up with creative writings and dialog quite an easy thing.) 

 

But even if I can't, know I have been keeping an eye on it and look forward to U&A's continued collaboration.

Feel free to drop by are share your thoughts. Even if you're not writing code or sketching art, a good idea is always welcome, as well as help in testing mods and (if you're inclined to that sort of thing) help in organizing the current ideas in roadmaps and priority lists to aid the effective development. Especially now that everyone is short on time, I'm sure the U&A team would benefit from things like that.

[the truthseeker]

I'm not saying it can't be done. None of my released mods so far have art assets, which is why I tend to focus on game mechanics. But to do truly game changing things you do require new quality assets as well as quality coding, so a collaboration is essential.

 

Ideas are plenty, indeed, but good ideas taking into account the mod goals coupled with a grasp on how the feasibility of their implementation compares to their net gain in gameplay value are certainly not that common.

 

Feel free to drop by are share your thoughts. Even if you're not writing code or sketching art, a good idea is always welcome, as well as help in testing mods and (if you're inclined to that sort of thing) help in organizing the current ideas in roadmaps and priority lists to aid the effective development. Especially now that everyone is short on time, I'm sure the U&A team would benefit from things like that.

 

 

Hope not derailing this thread's topic, but do have lots of Testing XP when the time comes. )Gee, even more timesink spent here in the forums from now on ) 

[deoxxys]

^its ok use my thread for your purposes

[simplex]

^its ok use my thread for your purposes

But JoeW is always watching. He hunts those who derail.

(btw, we need a meme out of this*)

* @Miss, @Willette, @MilleniumCount, @Tabs, anyone...?

[the truthseeker]

Will the Meme involve that newest "concentrating" Maxwell pic?

[Cynical Cynicist]

Really? This actually surprises me. In my experience, ideas are usually a dime a dozen. The hard part isn't thinking up ideas, it's coding them/drawing them/balancing them/etc. I've certainly been reluctant to post ideas because I didn't think anyone would care. Are modders really looking for ideas?

I'm not trying to sound contrary, I'm just a little shocked.

 

Good ideas are rare. To make matters worse, the full potential of an idea is often not realized.

[MilleniumCount]

But JoeW is always watching. He hunts those who derail.

(btw, we need a meme out of this*)

* @Miss, @Willette, @MilleniumCount, @Tabs, anyone...?

I will decipher what this is about and then we will see! ^^

[simplex]

I will decipher what this is about and then we will see! ^^

I meant the "... hunts those who ..." phrase.