[WiP] RPG System - Need help with ideas

[SamLogan]

That's a great project !Could you upload the mod, i'd like to try it and maybe help you.

[RazvanM]

That's a great project !

Could you upload the mod, i'd like to try it and maybe help you.

Cool, until I get something on sourceforge to work correcty, it is here (not for end users) you can take a look ,and we can discuss it if you have questions. Hosted on sourceforge here

Some important files

- debug_commands.lua has some commands that you can use in the console to give attr / exp / quests or to cancel a current quest.

- questmanager - is responsible for activating / traking / finishing a quest

- questinteraction - is responsible for the popups that the NPC gives.

The rest is up to you to discover, PM if you have questions.

Currently I'm thinking about adding a speed reduction based on inventory and stack count of items. You could check that out.

Edited May 27, 2013 by RazvanM

[milson]

[MENTION=23863]RazvanM[/MENTION] i'm really looking forward to your mod, thats exaclty what this game is missing in my opinion. ^^I offer any assistance but thats not much so far, i guess. xDI removed the hardcoded stuff, so hopefully there won't be any problems. If u are about to release the first versions, i'll try to rebalance the potions, so they'll fit to your mod.

Edited May 26, 2013 by milson

[RazvanM]

[MENTION=43228]milson[/MENTION], I do think that the potions are a good addition , good job on that. Any help counts, ideas for quests, ideas for improvements, ideas for gameplay, you can play and see if there are balance problems or any other thing that comes to mind, or if you are confident you can modify the code test it locally see that it works and than check in (made a project on sourceforge, will need your users to add permissions), or you can PM me with the changes and I will update them.Currently there are two things that need to be done:- Speed reduction- Implement a custom popup dialog for quests (the default one is ugly with 4 buttons, also if a quest has a large story you will need to go through "n" popups with description)

[milson]

[MENTION=43228]milson[/MENTION], I do think that the potions are a good addition , good job on that. Any help counts, ideas for quests, ideas for improvements, ideas for gameplay, you can play and see if there are balance problems or any other thing that comes to mind, or if you are confident you can modify the code test it locally see that it works and than check in (made a project on sourceforge, will need your users to add permissions), or you can PM me with the changes and I will update them.Currently there are two things that need to be done:- Speed reduction- Implement a custom popup dialog for quests (the default one is ugly with 4 buttons, also if a quest has a large story you will need to go through "n" popups with description)

Well, i think u better hand those 2 points to some more experienced modders, i couldn't create a component or whatever that would actually work as intended, because i don't even completly understand the whole game structure yet. But i'd love to test and throw ideas at you. ^^I'm also working on another mod since i started programming with lua, which would fit in pretty well.I'm going to add some abilitys that work on cost of sanity. First would be releasable, if i can fix that remaining anim problem i can't figure out. >.< Edited May 26, 2013 by milson

[jedybg]

Some random thoughts.The stats. They are rather redundant - you're aliasing the ingame stats with "standard RPG" stats. That doesn't make any sense, instead it adds useless complexity.Example : Strength - Damage. There is already damage stat. Increase that. Modify that - calling it strength won't change a thing and won't make the game feel like an RPG.Suggestions : Cut the aliases out. Add some stuff that could have a complex relationship with everything else. Example - Strength could give you additional inventory slots, damage and health regeneration. Add some drawbacks - stats aren't only about empowering the player - create more interesting situations. Example - Strength could give you more damage, the less stuff you carry. Example - An overfed character may deal lower damage. And have his health regenerated? Example - A character with low sanity may panic causing him to gain speed, but to get hungry ( aka tired ) faster. Example - Doing should generally exhaust you - fighting, mining etc. Thus you will get hungry. Maybe your speed would temporarily decrease too.The NPC - even temporary it doesn't fit. The game focuses on loneliness and lack of other human company, voice and so on - the only companions you may find are pigs which do not have any voice and are going to kill you on a full moon.Suggestion - Quests seem out of place as a whole but I'll go with the idea. They could be represented as some self crafted goals, for the sake of keeping the characters sanity ( the whole sanity loss of the game could be increased to make the player WANT to do them and feel rewarded ). Or to get closer to the stereotypical RPG, the Pig King could give those quests ( via some sort of hints or another pig to tell them to you - the king itself doesn't seem to occupied with your presence )Experience - It's a rather concrete goal. I get that the idea is to add the RPG feel to the game but it could be accomplished using the same vague way as the vanilla, thus enhancing the experience instead of trying to remodel it.Suggestion - The Elder Scrolls system. You do stuff - you get better at it. Example - The more you run, the better endurance you get. You can even add a sprint mechanic which would eat up you hunger gauge but will increase you speed, respectively the more you sprint the better your speed. Example - The more you stay hungry, the better you endure hunger. Example - The more you hit, mine, chop wood - the better and more efficient you become - less fatigue, less broken axes and less time spent. Example - The more you get hit - the more you grow into a beefbag with increased health.Final suggestion : Focus on the combat more, and less on the stats. The combat features very little, and could be vastly extended. Currently the way to go is to kite. That's all. There is so much to look into - blocking, counter attacks, actually useful tanking, sneak attacks ( on sleeping targets per say )PS : Great work so far!

[milson]

Some random thoughts.The stats. They are rather redundant - you're aliasing the ingame stats with "standard RPG" stats. That doesn't make any sense, instead it adds useless complexity.Example : Strength - Damage. There is already damage stat. Increase that. Modify that - calling it strength won't change a thing and won't make the game feel like an RPG.Suggestions : Cut the aliases out. Add some stuff that could have a complex relationship with everything else. Example - Strength could give you additional inventory slots, damage and health regeneration. Add some drawbacks - stats aren't only about empowering the player - create more interesting situations. Example - Strength could give you more damage, the less stuff you carry. Example - An overfed character may deal lower damage. And have his health regenerated? Example - A character with low sanity may panic causing him to gain speed, but to get hungry ( aka tired ) faster. Example - Doing should generally exhaust you - fighting, mining etc. Thus you will get hungry. Maybe your speed would temporarily decrease too.The NPC - even temporary it doesn't fit. The game focuses on loneliness and lack of other human company, voice and so on - the only companions you may find are pigs which do not have any voice and are going to kill you on a full moon.Suggestion - Quests seem out of place as a whole but I'll go with the idea. They could be represented as some self crafted goals, for the sake of keeping the characters sanity ( the whole sanity loss of the game could be increased to make the player WANT to do them and feel rewarded ). Or to get closer to the stereotypical RPG, the Pig King could give those quests ( via some sort of hints or another pig to tell them to you - the king itself doesn't seem to occupied with your presence )Experience - It's a rather concrete goal. I get that the idea is to add the RPG feel to the game but it could be accomplished using the same vague way as the vanilla, thus enhancing the experience instead of trying to remodel it.Suggestion - The Elder Scrolls system. You do stuff - you get better at it. Example - The more you run, the better endurance you get. You can even add a sprint mechanic which would eat up you hunger gauge but will increase you speed, respectively the more you sprint the better your speed. Example - The more you stay hungry, the better you endure hunger. Example - The more you hit, mine, chop wood - the better and more efficient you become - less fatigue, less broken axes and less time spent. Example - The more you get hit - the more you grow into a beefbag with increased health.Final suggestion : Focus on the combat more, and less on the stats. The combat features very little, and could be vastly extended. Currently the way to go is to kite. That's all. There is so much to look into - blocking, counter attacks, actually useful tanking, sneak attacks ( on sleeping targets per say )PS : Great work so far!

Wow, amazing ideas! Most of them should have a upper place on your list, [MENTION=23863]RazvanM[/MENTION] xDAnd i totaly agree to the elder scrolls system. It would fit so much better then just staticly getting better at anything, even if it makes it quite more difficultto implement.I still think some npc action could take place in the game without destroying it's initially style completly.

[RazvanM]

[MENTION=44757]jedybg[/MENTION] - Exceptional , thank you very much, very good ideas. Regarding quests, well the point is that you are not doing too much in the game, except survive - find the portal - teleport, so it should add more things to do, let's say "you know who" added some monsters to keep you from finding him, so you have to go over them before you can teleport. The portal could be hidden, and an NPC placed in its place to give you a final quest before the portal appears ... Think of the final adventure mode, you could fight "you know who" to finish the game, true this will mean changing the adventure mechanics so if you die, you will be re-spawned on the same map level (not on the beginning of the adventure).The idea of "more you do the better you become", that is the best integration that can be done I think. I haven't played any "Standard MMORPG", so no Oblivion, Skyrim, WOW ... (actually I played Lineage a long time ago ) so I don't know the game mechanics in those, that is why I need input on this stuff.Also it's not really about complete integration, it could be a completely different experience with some original mechanics, think of DOTA, it's completely different than what the original game is about, sure you still have to kill / destroy something to win. And yes I agree the combat is almost non existent.PS. Hope you don't mind if I look into some of your suggestions (credits will be given) .PPS. In order to feel sort of "RPG-ish" I still think some stats should be shown, true I could rename Strength to Damage, however that does not seem right, in every game I know you have DPS, and that is controlled by either Strength / Magic / Dexterity or a combination of stats. I will take a look at Elders Scrolls and see what it offers. Also I made a project on sourceforge

Edited May 27, 2013 by RazvanM

[DaS]

[MENTION=23863]RazvanM[/MENTION], there may already be a character build that was never used by Klei that you could potentially use as your NPCBe warned, this may contain secretive things....

The basic_shop NPC still has all of its build, animations and what not... I think it would make a great NPC questmaster

[RazvanM]

Yup I was thinking of that char , I did not manage to make it show in game though. If you use DebugSpawn it is visible, however if you save / load, it will not be visible, even if it is there (some errors with animation), so for now Wilson will remain, I will get back on that char eventually.

[jedybg]

[MENTION=44757]jedybg[/MENTION] - Exceptional , thank you very much, very good ideas. Regarding quests, well the point is that you are not doing too much in the game, except survive - find the portal - teleport, so it should add more things to do, let's say "you know who" added some monsters to keep you from finding him, so you have to go over them before you can teleport. The portal could be hidden, and an NPC placed in its place to give you a final quest before the portal appears ... Think of the final adventure mode, you could fight "you know who" to finish the game, true this will mean changing the adventure mechanics so if you die, you will be re-spawned on the same map level (not on the beginning of the adventure).The idea of "more you do the better you become", that is the best integration that can be done I think. I haven't played any "Standard MMORPG", so no Oblivion, Skyrim, WOW ... (actually I played Lineage a long time ago ) so I don't know the game mechanics in those, that is why I need input on this stuff.Also it's not really about complete integration, it could be a completely different experience with some original mechanics, think of DOTA, it's completely different than what the original game is about, sure you still have to kill / destroy something to win. And yes I agree the combat is almost non existent.PS. Hope you don't mind if I look into some of your suggestions (credits will be given) .PPS. In order to feel sort of "RPG-ish" I still think some stats should be shown, true I could rename Strength to Damage, however that does not seem right, in every game I know you have DPS, and that is controlled by either Strength / Magic / Dexterity or a combination of stats. I will take a look at Elders Scrolls and see what it offers. Also I made a project on sourceforge

Yeah, I get your idea about giving the whole thing a point. Here it's more of a personal preference.I personally find the emptiness and lack of goals of the game appealing. Some people are daunted by the lack of goals. Some people get bored by it.By the way - [MENTION=9782]DaS[/MENTION] The shop NPC is perfect O0 No face. No names, just a figure who gets you to do his bidding for his purposes.Well my point about the "The more you do, the better you become" is to cut the centralized xp system, and let the player just get better in different areas of the game ( a simplistic way to achieve this is to reward a small amount of stats per action done ). It would be even more awesome to hide the actual experience and benefits - let the player find for himself that when he does thing X he gets stronger and could carry more.And the DOTA comment is an excellent example for that being done, but you seem to have missed my point by a bit here. My idea is not to keep the things the same way, or completely integrate, but to keep the feeling of the Don't Starve game. You can add a roller coaster to the game, but if implemented in the right, grim, with subtle hints of doom way - it will fit.And again think about the context of the aliases of stats. It's not about renaming one stat ( or renaming one alias ). Just make sure you use the current ones, then add other ones, and finally connect all of them into a whole system. The final names don't matter, as I stated before.Examples : Strength - It's an awesome stat. Keep it. More Strength -> More Damage; - that's standard and intuitive. Not let's add something to connect it to other stats: The more you carry -> The faster you get hungry If you carry overweight -> Your movement slows down If you carry almost nothing -> Your movement speeds up Strength could diminish the hunger you get from carrying a lot of stuff. Strength could be used to carry more stuff and move fast, or carry more stuff and move at normal rate without becoming overweight Constitution/Endurance/Stamina pick a name. I will call it Endurance by a personal preference. More Endurance -> More Health ( Duh ) The sprint stuff I've explained earlier; You can tie that with your overall load and total weight and your strength More Endurance -> The more time you could last in the freezing winter ( bonus insulation ) More Endurance -> More time without food ( I would make this an inferior bonus ) Agility/Dexterity etc. Dexterity for me ( D&D style ) More Dexterity -> Faster Harvesting More Dexterity -> Faster Movement Dodge mechanics -> Dexterity increases your dodge chance, your heavy ass and backpack reduce it More Dexterity -> Sneakier - Either a complete slow walking/ stealth stuff, or just reduced aggro range, bees from your hives etc. Intelligence More Intelligence -> Increased Sanity ( well.. ) More Intelligence -> More Gathered Materials ( berries, grass etc ) More Intelligence -> Some recipes unlocked for free ( although it's not a long term benefit ) OR More Intelligence -> Some recipes REQUIRE intelligence to be unlockedAnd I really like the top layout - with those 4 stats here, and the 3 that the game indicates you about in you GUI - 7 stats total. Just enough to fill up the bar and the screen with the removal of the health/hunger/sanity bubbles.And if the minimap is combined with the clock-thing - viola, the whole thing will look like Klei created it!One thing I haven't though about when I've written the first post. I've seen that in your examples you give a bunch of stats for a lot of things.My suggestion - reduce the stats to figures. Basically - you have 1 of each. It takes you some time to increase it ( the experience needed for the improvement of the stat should be hidden - it's awesome ) and finally you achieve that. You have 2 Strength! And that gives you a suitable reward - a noticeable bonus, an awesome bonus - it took you 30 ingame minutes but it was worth it. On the other hand if you have 35 strength and get roughly 5 or 10 for 30 minutes of "Strength grinding", a single point won't have that marginal effect. It won't feel awesome to get that 1 point. It will feel more like a grinding quest - "duh! another 15 points and I will have an inventory slot opened".PS : Of course I won't mind for you to use that stuff - on the contrary I will be happy if you like them and even happier if you can make use of them!PS2 : Well that was quite the "Quick Reply"

[RazvanM]

[MENTION=44757]jedybg[/MENTION] - That is a perfect Quick Reply, it does clear things up , thank you, on short (if I get this right), more stats integration and effects, and yes I think that the hunger / health / sanity will be removed, perhaps a more RPG style with the pic and 3 ? bars, the values of the stats could be hidden and visible in a popup (again more RPG style).Thank you again for providing input and trying to work with for me (clearing things) .

[SamLogan]

Ok so I've tried quickly your mod and it's really an impressive job. Here's my first impression :- Quest system is nice but it forced the player to come back to the pnj too often. Maybe you could base your system on a achievement/quest system base on a list.- XP system is interesting but the leveling is too fast.- Stats system is good but I think it will be more interesting if you replace each stat by skill (axe, hammer, etc.). As well, player have level his skill and no his stats that the effects are not explicit when you play.- Hunger decrease too slowly.

Edited May 27, 2013 by SamLogan

[RazvanM]

@SamLogan, thank you very much for this, I think you are the first that actually tested what was up there .

- XP well, it is in development, the leveling the stats / the balance everything is off due to testing, so I could do a quest kill 4 spiders and level up to see that everything is working. So those will not be the final values.

- Regarding the stats, I think @jedybg was on the spot with that .

- Regarding quests, I had the idea of having a quest list, I just wanted to focus on other things, I will make it eventually (a list of quests that you can cancel).

And I do agree on hunger , I could go 5 days without eating if I have sufficient stamina (real life to )

[jedybg]

[MENTION=44757]jedybg[/MENTION] - That is a perfect Quick Reply, it does clear things up , thank you, on short (if I get this right), more stats integration and effects, and yes I think that the hunger / health / sanity will be removed, perhaps a more RPG style with the pic and 3 ? bars, the values of the stats could be hidden and visible in a popup (again more RPG style).Thank you again for providing input and trying to work with for me (clearing things) .

You're welcome, mate. At some point I may even give you a hand in the development, I'm interested in how the modding works and how extensible it is. Gotta put off some work beforehand though.

[dw420]

Things that make an RPG...an RPG (in no particular order)1. Levelling Curve [xp rewards, xp/level curve etc etc ]2. Quest System & NPCs3. Stats/Skill Tree Progression [tied to the levelling system, eg. recipes being unlocked at certain lvls]4.Thicker Plot5. Monetary system [shops, currency, assign values to items] --------optional6. Class system

Edited May 28, 2013 by dw420

[Lexicroft]

You can use my skin for Quest giver / NPC , if you want :3Here is the link