What are your thoughts on

[wormwood123]

I’d love to hear more on your thoughts about downsides in the comments 

Oh my god I forgot to finish the title 

[Bumber64]

Should be proportional to character power. Klei did a fairly good job overall, but Warly has too much downside and Wolfgang has too little.

What if Wolfgang lost mightiness faster as his sanity lowered?

[AliceShiki]

I'm kinda neutral on the whole thing.

Downsides can be interesting, and I like how Wigfrid can't eat meat, even if I find the whole goodies thing weird, I guess it's fine to allow her to eat Jellybeans specifically, because "OP food is too OP and everyone deserves access to the OP food" or something.

On the other hand, while I never played DS, I can imagine that Willow's DS downside would be horrible to play with in DST, so I'm glad that this one is gone.

So... Well, I think downsides can be fun to play around, but they can't be too harsh to the point that playing with the character would be a hassle.

[user1464576869]

I feel like all downsides are just chores rather than something that invites or teaches me to play differently. Then again, I also think the whole game is a chore now. So maybe it's not much of a point analyzing that thought.

[Nikki Darks]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

Should be proportional to character power. Klei did a fairly good job overall, but Warly has too much downside and Wolfgang has too little.

What if Wolfgang lost mightiness faster as his sanity lowered?

This comment takes the cake honestly.

The stronger the upsides the more impactful the downsides, if not then you mess with the power level of the character.

Also, impactful downsides are just fun (personally)? They change how you play the game compared to other characters.

3 hours ago, wormwood123 said:

I’d love to hear more on your thoughts about downsides in the comments 

Oh my god I forgot to finish the title 

It worked out in a very funny way btw. 

[RubLog6]

2 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Should be proportional to character power. Klei did a fairly good job overall, but Warly has too much downside and Wolfgang has too little.

What if Wolfgang lost mightiness faster as his sanity lowered?

I was literally just thinking an hour ago, what if they somewhat brought back the old hunger mechanic in a different form. 25 percent increase damage when hp is full (buffing his damage even more when mighty) and 25 percent debuff at much lower hp, say 50 or even 100 hp. 

Implying injury means less damage output

 

This was just a whacky idea it might be dumb though

[Malfario]

I think a lot of people loose sight when talking about balancing characters, at worst it feels like a popularity contests even,

I think all characterds are properly desgined and balanced around the idea of what they want to be, not every character needs to be a challenge, and those who are designed as challenges do have ftting downsides.

Also i think a lot of people dont take into considerati the fact that sometimes the downsides are not inherit characteristics of the character, but rather aspects of their gameplay that that come up naturally. Sure wolfgangs comabt abilities are reidiculously accesible by how powerfull they are, howver the charcater is balanced on the fact he has nothing else going for him. wolfgang is the early game king but in long term worlds he just fills a couple of niches.

Wolfgang wants to be that, the best option for combat without much more thinking, if you dont like that you have 17 more characters to choose from, and also, and this aplies to every character, there isn,t a character whose updsides allow you to avoid having to learn the game, if you dont know how to play dst, no matter who you play, you simply wont be able to progress, and i think thats the sign the characters are overall perfectly balanced.

[Mike23Ua]

Me asking for downsides at this stage of the game would be pointless. And besides my opinion of them would be biased in favor FOR them due to my taste within video games.

Rogue Legacy, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Splintered Fate, Neon Abyss, Hand of Fate, Baltaro etc.. this genre of gaming has buffs & boons, so obviously I enjoy the boons as much as I do the buffs.

However there is such as a thing as games that are hard to be fun, and then there’s a thin line of hard just to be frustrating. For example: Madhouse Difficulty & Ethan Must Die in Resident Evil 7, or the Final Horizons end game dlc for Sonic Frontiers.

Some characters (such as WX78) actually got more difficult downsides, limitations on ability augment circuits & health damage in rain.

I think it’s important to understand what is fun, and what is just annoying… and due to the way Klei handles skill trees (or 5th character re-reworks if you want to call it that) I just do not feel like asking for more downsides is a GOOD Idea because: If they over do them, they make characters players are currently enjoying: miserable to play.

And we ALL know Klei’s reputation when it comes to overly buffing or overly nerfing areas of gameplay.

[wormwood123]

3 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

 

It worked out in a very funny way btw. 

oh sweet

[Bumber64]

4 hours ago, Malfario said:

Sure wolfgangs comabt abilities are reidiculously accesible by how powerfull they are, howver the charcater is balanced on the fact he has nothing else going for him. wolfgang is the early game king but in long term worlds he just fills a couple of niches.

Wolfgang wants to be that, the best option for combat without much more thinking

Wormwood and Warly don't have much going for them but still get stuck with significant downsides. (Don't forget Wolfgang's extra ability w/r/t piggyback and marble armor. He's got more than just higher DPS versus Wigfrid and old Wanda.)

Wolfgang has a sanity drawback (only 1.1x for auras), but can just use his strength to smack the NMF straight out of shadows and regain sanity. (His ability to kill bosses quickly probably drains less sanity than Wilson, so it's mostly the 1.3x drain from darkness anyway.) Compare to Wendy who loses sanity each time Abi dies, and is stuck with 0.5x damage on shadows regardless because Abi won't attack them.

Edited January 12 by Bumber64

[Jakepeng99]

7 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Should be proportional to character power. Klei did a fairly good job overall, but Warly has too much downside and Wolfgang has too little.

What if Wolfgang lost mightiness faster as his sanity lowered?

Good interperation.

Maxwell, and Wanda have some of the least impactful (in terms of being a disadvantage) downsides in the game, and are the strongest by a large majority.

Wolfgang just has no downside besides a little extra sainity gain, which can be nerfed by having a pet. He doesnt even have more hunger drain.

Woodie's upsides are ok, but his downsides, and the downsides of his were form dont really exist. Feels weird since hes just Wilson but with good upsides. Wilsons whole thing is mid upsides for the trade of no downsides.

 

Also yeah, Warly is the opposite. Mid, not too impactful upsides, but huuuuggee downsides. I like his downsides but his upsides are bad on himself. If you want extra damage play Wolfgang. Most his special dishes are niche, hes just the jelly + a few decent spices guy.

4 hours ago, Malfario said:

Sure wolfgangs comabt abilities are reidiculously accesible by how powerfull they are, howver the charcater is balanced on the fact he has nothing else going for 

Not really a downside. I wouldnt count not having someones this or that.

22 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Wormwood

Wormwood is good he is the perfect balance.

[Bumber64]

9 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Woodie's upsides are ok, but his downsides, and the downsides of his were form dont really exist.

There's at least an inconvenience of losing access to your inventory if you didn't want to transform. This is only removed with lunar affinity. The treeguard idol puts him in the "powerful with skill tree" Willow category, where the downside disappears completely alongside new powers obtained early in a new world.

Edited January 12 by Bumber64

[Mr Giggio]

Downsides forces us to adapt gameplay. Going for ways we wouldn't otherwise. It makes the characters different. Unique. It's good design. 

[Evelo]

While I love downsides, I am pretty sure given the more casual side of the player base, there will be uproar with making things harder or not overly convenient. Just look at the Wendy Skill Tree as an example of an uproar. 

Not that there is anything wrong with that, just the direction Klei is taking the game, for better or worse (it's worse). Wormwood is my favorite because he can't rely on food to heal which is one of the most fundamental ways to heal in the game. But with the introduction of Monkey Tails, amassing tons of Honey Poultice has become trivial (not that it was hard before just required trips to the swamp). Then passive healing was introduced with Photosynthesis, his combat abilities became supercharged, and not to mention Beefalo have simplified the game since they became ride-able. 

With Wickerbottom's Refresh I was really delighted with the additional downside of her reading books at low sanity causes Terrorbeaks to spawn. So they've shown they are capable of introducing additional downsides. Since Klei also seems to always be working on characters (because that brings in the $$$ so I don't blame them) maybe after skill trees the next inevitable character updates can focus on downsides. (except wilson)

Edited January 12 by Evelo

[Nikki Darks]

3 hours ago, Evelo said:

While I love downsides, I am pretty sure given the more casual side of the player base, there will be uproar with making things harder or not overly convenient. Just look at the Wendy Skill Tree as an example of an uproar. 

Not that there is anything wrong with that, just the direction Klei is taking the game, for better or worse (it's worse). Wormwood is my favorite because he can't rely on food to heal which is one of the most fundamental ways to heal in the game. But with the introduction of Monkey Tails, amassing tons of Honey Poultice has become trivial (not that it was hard before just required trips to the swamp). Then passive healing was introduced with Photosynthesis, his combat abilities became supercharged, and not to mention Beefalo have simplified the game since they became ride-able. 

With Wickerbottom's Refresh I was really delighted with the additional downside of her reading books at low sanity causes Terrorbeaks to spawn. So they've shown they are capable of introducing additional downsides. Since Klei also seems to always be working on characters (because that brings in the $$$ so I don't blame them) maybe after skill trees the next inevitable character updates can focus on downsides. (except wilson)

I understand this concern, however.

A downside doesn't need to be an 80% increase in difficulty, it just needs to change how you approach the game.

Look at Wormwood VS Wigfrid. Wormwood's downside is a lot more difficult to deal with and changes how he approaches healing, Wigfrid's is fairly negligible yet still changes how she approaches a whole aspect of the game, food.

Having to water down what makes the game more unique and a lot deeper than other of its genre just to please those who are incompetent is not a good route to go down.

Also, you don't only interact with your character in the game, there are aspects of the game that negate even the harshest of character downsides with the tools you can unlock earlier or later into your run.

Not every character needs to have a downside like Wormwood/Wes, nor does every character need to have a "downside" like Willow or Wickerbottom, diversity is important.

[Cheggf]

I think ideally everyone who isn't Wilson should have notable downsides. They don't need to all be huge, but they need to at least exist. Wickerbottom's insomniac penalty is about the minimum I think each character should have. Not a huge deal, but it does exist, you might have to change something a bit to accommodate for it. Willow's downside is, dare I say, essentially impossible to actually know exists without looking at something that explicitly tells you it exists. How is a player supposed to notice that if it is Winter and they are using insulating clothing instead of a thermal stone then they will start freezing slightly earlier? You would need to warm yourself until you see the overheating graphic appearing so you know what temperature you're at and then pull out a stopwatch to tell that you started freezing after 19 minutes instead of 20, or in 9 & a half instead of 10 & a half. 

[DegenerateFurry]

I like them only when they're something you can play around, since that encourages you to engage with game mechanics and items you might never bother with. 

Walter's sanity downsides on getting hurt are good because they encourage you to take advantage of his ranged playstyle and avoid getting hit better than you normally might. Also, his bee allergy is killer when you're fighting Bee Queen, even with good armor one hit will dismount you from Woby and you'll at least lose all your sanity as the grumbles sting you while you're down.

Warly's food memory downside is good in theory, but is outdated because we now have enough high hunger and good healing options that you can just alternate them to get around it. As someone who plays Warly often, I suggest the food memory length be doubled (I've tested this on a modded character, it's playable). Also, give him a skill tree with a perk that lets us get guaranteed voltgoat horn drops.

Wormwood's no stats gained from food downside is a great downside conceptually and him having to heal with fertilizers makes sense because he's a plant, but it's tragically lacking synergy with him being the Designated Farming Character. Wormwood grows all this food and he doesn't get anything out of it himself. Maybe make farm crops that give significant health produce double the rot or something? 

Wickerbottom's insomnia is a good downside for her specifically because she uses sanity a lot, so it being harder to recover makes that usage feel more impactful.

Maxwell's low health downside only really affects people who don't wear armor, if we're honest, and given that he has no penalty for wearing night armor and many Maxwell players ride beefalo, it's effectively a non-issue. His real downside is his passive sanity gain since he actually wants to be insane as often as possible to farm nightmare fuel, and this should be increased to nerf him because he's just too good.

Wanda's low health downside actually does matter, but only if you play as Old Wanda for maximum damage dealing. Even with armor, you can't tank as Old Wanda. Plus, she can't heal normally, and every time you want to heal, it's an inventory slot with a cooldown. 

Woodie's real downside is the massive hunger loss associated with transformation, which is a fair enough trade, although it doesn't really make you do anything special as counterplay, you just need more food and maybe a bit more planning about your diet. The moon downside is once every twenty days and makes it borderline impossible to grab Glommer, so I'm fine with him getting a perk to negate that.

Wendy's decreased damage downside, much like Maxwell's decreased health downside, doesn't really matter because more often than not, you'll be fighting alongside Abigail, while riding a beefalo, or both. I'm not really sure what to do about that, though; nerfing her damage dealt through beefalo or with Wendy's help would just make her suck as a character aside from clearing out hordes of trash mobs.

All the monster characters have the meaningful downside of No Free Gold From Pig King, which matters throughout the game, but especially early on and post-ruins.

Wurt's vegetarianism is an excellent downside that forces you to use different foods from normal. You still don't have to be an active farmer, but the game does try to nudge you in that direction for better healing.

Wigfrid's carnivore diet downside is a joke because all the best and easiest-to-get foods have meat in them, and she doesn't even hunger more than normal. Hardly even noticeable, just make meatballs and pierogis like everyone else.

[Bumber64]

20 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

All the monster characters have the meaningful downside of No Free Gold From Pig King, which matters throughout the game, but especially early on and post-ruins.

This actually only affects Wurt. Regular pigs and bunnymen hate monsters, but the respective kings don't mind. You just need to deal with the surrounding pigs as Webber and Wortox.

Edited January 13 by Bumber64

[Evelo]

2 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

, but it's tragically lacking synergy with him being the Designated Farming Character. Wormwood grows all this food and he doesn't get anything out of it himself. Maybe make farm crops that give significant health produce double the rot or something? 

Large Crops drop more food, which makes more rot than a pathetic crop. Additionally, why does it matter? Downsides do not need compensating in any form, especially as you mentioned with some other characters. He also isnt the "designated farming character" as everyone can farm, it is just more convenient for him. Wicker is a much better farmer than Wormwood if we are looking at produce production rate.

Side note: Regarding Woodie, idk why people complain about the lunar transformation during full moon. Just stand still and it will go away super fast. Glomer is easy to grab consistently. Additionally, much like Winona with the downside being "I eat more food" it isn't a downside at all assuming the player knows how to actually acquire food. Since the RWYS update, once you figure out proper companion crops, food becomes a non-issue forever. Also like how Wolfgang's 'downside' of faster sanity drain isn't mentioned here because it too, isn't an issue for knowledgable players.

Regarding that, Wormwood is also great in that respect too where downsides also come with a niche upside. Wicker, Wormwood, and Wolfgang are all excellent at farming Nightmare fuel because of their ability to manipulate sanity more easily than others. Sure there is risk involved but it is also a beneficial. Kiss/Curse affects are by far the most fun aspect of characters I feel. Wicker didn't have that until Klei added it in during her refresh.

[Mr Giggio]

On 1/13/2026 at 2:57 AM, DegenerateFurry said:

Maxwell's low health downside only really affects people who don't wear armor,

This is such a Saturated/tired statement that overlooks so many things... *Sigh*

If u playing it soft and smooth any char will have a good time. If u winging against bosses before fuel weaver the stagger from shadow creatures can interrupt casts and force us to loose control/ make the matcha go west quickly. After fuel weaver you had to go throught the whole shadow arc so might as well get rewarded. Planar damage still smokes low HP bars no matter the armor at the point beef and bone armor is all that counts. But okay.

My favorite example of this is Eberferatu's video on YouTube talking about how HP doesn't matter and doing a lot of bosses with low HP bar and then when playing live in a boss rush tournament died to dragonfly due fire damage ticking him down. "As long you wear armor", untill you are the one playing it and can't edit your way throught it.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/mrg1ggio/clip/SpineyFurtiveVanillaBleedPurple-CKzw9M5D_cWdsI5i

https://www.twitch.tv/mrg1ggio/clip/CoyDelightfulOrcaCorgiDerp-0IoodlML5Uz_XEgB

https://www.twitch.tv/mrg1ggio/clip/StupidTenuousDragonEleGiggle-9ALI3UTThVJMSWh5

 

Once beefalo bucket me off in ruins while a rook charged at me. OHKO. Varg got me on the breath while I was on foot. KO. Died at base cuz dropped a thermal stone too close of a lava pond and the fire damage stacked with overheat. You can't play poorly/lazy if u pushing progress. Earthquakes can kill ya. A bunch a stuff specially in ocean can hit kill ya. Being extra carefull is gameplay and it's due the downside. Invalidating it is sooo tiresome.

Edited January 14 by Mr Giggio

[Cruvimaster]

On 1/13/2026 at 2:57 AM, DegenerateFurry said:

Wanda's low health downside actually does matter, but only if you play as Old Wanda for maximum damage dealing. Even with armor, you can't tank as Old Wanda. Plus, she can't heal normally, and every time you want to heal, it's an inventory slot with a cooldown. 

Wanda is the character with the most and worst downsides. When she was introduced to the game, the devs were overly concerned with "balancing," which was later lost in the rework and skill tree process. This makes the character currently quite uninteresting and outdated.

And I'm currently playing with Wortox and I can confidently say that Wanda is garbage. Wortox has the best teleportation mobility in the game at the cost of simple bee souls, and all this in the first few days of the game (Wanda needs to hunt Walrus every winter and hope the RNG is favorable). Wortox has 200 HP with a powerful healing system using simple souls. Wortox deals area damage with his clone and damage to multiple enemies through the skill tree. Wortox already deals 68 damage in the first 10 days of the game, which is already enough for any initial challenge with ease. And Wortox becomes a god after unlocking the rifts.

I have a world with over 5k Wanda character. One of the things that annoys me the most is the fact that she can't heal herself during elemental damage (cold, heat, shock). The character simply dies with 10 healing watches in her inventory. I hope Wanda's Skill Tree makes her an interesting character again.

On 1/13/2026 at 2:57 AM, DegenerateFurry said:

Maxwell's low health downside only really affects people who don't wear armor, if we're honest,

There is a considerable difference in facing Warbot + Scion with 200 HP (Wilson) versus 75 HP (Wes). This health downside does have a real impact on gameplay, as it will affect various strategies.

Edited January 14 by Cruvimaster

[linabagel]

At present, the only factor that can be considered a downside is Warly. To add to the challenges brought about by the downsides, at least it should be on the same scale as Warly. The downsides of some characters seem to have been designed randomly. Some characters even rely on ST to completely eliminate the so-called downsides. 

I once thought the downsides of Wormwood were merely challenges. But in reality, all I really did was to search for a few more Ornate Chests and build a home near the Sinkhole. Not to mention that after obtaining the Moon Shroom, the battle between Wormwood and Bee Queen became much simpler. Jellybeans and Batbat are so cheap for Wormwood. The challenge brought by health is just like Maxwell, just paying attention to the rhythm and item organization. 

 

[cropo]

Really depends on what most people mean by "downsides". Some downsides are far too high and the characters perks often didn't live up to the detriment in the old days. What, I have fire immunity and a tiny little light at the cost of lighting my entire base on fire for having low sanity, when Fire immunity already exists in item form and can be obtained super early in Shipwrecked? 

Some downsides and upsides are also problematic with new content. For example Bernie did not work on Lunar Island until Willow got a skill tree. At the time Bernie was basically her only main tool and it simply did not work in the new area. Woodie transforming on a full moon complicates the idea or lunar-themed content as well. Should he just be immune to it as a gameplay exception so he isn't barred from 90% of the new content? Just because he can chop trees pretty fast? What about Wigfrid never having a chance to use a lot of the newer food items that actually give unique benefits unlike most other food? Should she just be permanently locked out of those no matter what future content entails? Don't even get me started on Winona's goofy downside of draining her entire hunger bar if you want to build a few trivial items.

Downsides that don't have weird balance problems, overshadow their upsides, or bar them from significant new content would be good but otherwise most of the disadvantages that were "fixed" with skill trees were highly unbalanced disadvantages that were not compensated for/

 

[user1464576869]

2 hours ago, cropo said:

Really depends on what most people mean by "downsides". Some downsides are far too high and the characters perks often didn't live up to the detriment in the old days. What, I have fire immunity and a tiny little light at the cost of lighting my entire base on fire for having low sanity, when Fire immunity already exists in item form and can be obtained super early in Shipwrecked? 

Some downsides and upsides are also problematic with new content. For example Bernie did not work on Lunar Island until Willow got a skill tree. At the time Bernie was basically her only main tool and it simply did not work in the new area. Woodie transforming on a full moon complicates the idea or lunar-themed content as well. Should he just be immune to it as a gameplay exception so he isn't barred from 90% of the new content? Just because he can chop trees pretty fast? What about Wigfrid never having a chance to use a lot of the newer food items that actually give unique benefits unlike most other food? Should she just be permanently locked out of those no matter what future content entails? Don't even get me started on Winona's goofy downside of draining her entire hunger bar if you want to build a few trivial items.

Downsides that don't have weird balance problems, overshadow their upsides, or bar them from significant new content would be good but otherwise most of the disadvantages that were "fixed" with skill trees were highly unbalanced disadvantages that were not compensated for/

 

I think the most interesting thing is that those downsides were designed for how the game was shaped at the time. And probably felt more interesting to face as such. They are kind of like quirky niche challenges, much like modern youtube content, "can I complete this platformer without ever jumping? Without ever utilizing X game mechanic?" Entertaining to play back when the game was more arcade-like. Turning the action like survival into something more of a strategy or puzzle game. Maybe not a gameplay style to live with forever, that is. 

But DST today has changed, and comes off a little bit as if it is struggling to design more of itself as a world, as the baseline board, because all the characters as pawns are designed for a very specific kind of board. And it's hard to convince yourself to change them too. Mostly because of their lore and personalities.

It has happened with skilltrees, in the end. But still, all of it brings into question stuff like, should maybe the downsides be changed just as much as the strengths. 

Edited January 13 by user1464576869

[Nikki Darks]

13 hours ago, Cheggf said:

I think ideally everyone who isn't Wilson should have notable downsides. They don't need to all be huge, but they need to at least exist. Wickerbottom's insomniac penalty is about the minimum I think each character should have. Not a huge deal, but it does exist, you might have to change something a bit to accommodate for it. Willow's downside is, dare I say, essentially impossible to actually know exists without looking at something that explicitly tells you it exists. How is a player supposed to notice that if it is Winter and they are using insulating clothing instead of a thermal stone then they will start freezing slightly earlier? You would need to warm yourself until you see the overheating graphic appearing so you know what temperature you're at and then pull out a stopwatch to tell that you started freezing after 19 minutes instead of 20, or in 9 & a half instead of 10 & a half. 

Saying that Wickerbottom's "downside" exists is already giving it too much credit. Not being able to sleep only affects 1 aspect of the game, which are the tents (calling all of those sleeping options tents since they do the same thing).

And the thing about tents is that they are probably the slowest yet most inefficient way to heal in DST. Blue caps, crops, if you find pumpkins, sometimes glommer goop, there's an ample variety for health, and an equal ample variety for sanity.

Cacti, green caps, just killing nightmare creatures since they're not a threat anyways, I'd argue it's an upside in certain situations like those angry gestalts and lunar island.

The more you play Wicker (not including veterans) the more you realize she has no downside.