Not A Fan Of Scion

[Captain_Rage]

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

Seriously, if you try to play without replanting plants or destroying spawners, the game feels completely different. Almost as good as the first hours in the game...

This is the way to go. Only on rare occasions have I tried moving basic resource spawners while setting up a base and I definitely never understood why people who don't understand how to protect a base insist on setting up farms at the start of the game that they barely can protect. In a super late game world it is nice to have a few farms though roaming the map to collect resources is usually a lot more fun.

[Hungry French]

3 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Я не думаю, что с этим возникнет много проблем. Само по себе терраформирование биома требует множества усилий, и большинство спавнеров, которые вы можете разрушить, будут сопротивляться, прежде чем вы их уничтожите. Большинство людей предпочитают этого не делать, потому что гораздо проще создать небольшую, но удобную базу в «безопасном» биоме, чем, например, терраформировать болото.

Пещеры, в частности, немного выбиваются из общей картины, поскольку я бы предпочёл, чтобы спавнеры были разрушены, но могли возродиться в результате роста мира, а не были бы просто неразрушимыми. Но я знаю, что это не самое распространённое мнение.

Even bosses can destroy everything around them... And any spawner is very easy to burn. And pigs and bunny's are literally a whole chest of planks, pig skins, and rocks... This is not normal i think...

1 hour ago, Captain_Rage said:

Вот как это делается. Лишь в редких случаях я пытался перемещать базовые источники ресурсов при обустройстве базы, и я точно никогда не понимал, почему люди, которые не знают, как защитить базу, в начале игры создают фермы, которые едва ли могут защитить. В конце игры неплохо иметь несколько ферм, хотя обычно гораздо веселее бродить по карте в поисках ресурсов.

Yes. Most of the resources on the map are food, grass, sticks and a tree. And when can you move it all... There's not even anything to do in biomes. Even going for food is unnecessary because there is ice, honey, berries and kelp...

[Maxil20]

16 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Even bosses can destroy everything around them... And any spawner is very easy to burn. And pigs and bunny's are literally a whole chest of planks, pig skins, and rocks... This is not normal i think...

The only giant you could reasonably use for clearing is bearger. Deerclops is okay, but only for mobs. The others are all pretty unreliable if you are planning to clear out an area, much less also only are particularly good in certain seasons/waiting long enough.

18 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

And pigs and bunny's are literally a whole chest of planks, pig skins, and rocks... This is not normal i think...

You can only benefit from those resources once. Pig/bunnymen houses don’t come back, and unless you take precautions to reconstruct/save some of the huts you will run out of the burst of resources you get and need to seek out ways to supplement those resources. It’s not sustainable to live off of just the hammered resources in the medium-long term.

[Hungry French]

8 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

Единственный гигант, которого можно с умом использовать для зачистки, — это Биргер. Дирклопс неплох, но только для мобов. Остальные довольно ненадёжны, если вы планируете зачищать территорию, и тем более хороши только в определённые сезоны/при достаточном ожидании.

Well, Deerclops does it without your desire)

 

8 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

Вы можете воспользоваться этими ресурсами только один раз. Дома свинолюдей/кроликов не восстанавливаются, и если вы не примете меры по восстановлению/сохранению некоторых хижин, то ресурсы, которые вы получаете, закончатся, и вам придётся искать способы их восполнить. В среднесрочной и долгосрочной перспективе невозможно жить только за счёт добытых ресурсов.

They give a giant boost. Because I have to get all this loot with my own hands... 100 times longer, probably...
and in the long run, pigs are as useless as bunnyes. Resources from them start to be either optional or low-tier quality... Especially for boss rushers. ( Speedrunners )

Edited August 22, 2025 by Hungry French

[Maxil20]

18 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Well, Deerclops does it without your desire)

I feel like if you are at the point where you are clearing out specifically structures, you probably don’t need to wait for a giant to smash them and can utilize a hammer for that. Deerclops isn’t very practical outside of that scope, especially compared to bearger.

19 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

They give a giant boost. Because I have to get all this loot with my own hands... 100 times longer, probably...
and in the long run, pigs are as useless as bunnyes. Resources from them start to be either optional or low-tier quality... Especially for boss rushers. ( Speedrunners )

Again, its only a burst of loot. ~150 boards/cut stone is not going to set you for the whole game, and you will need to supplement your own resources in the long run. I much more value sustainability without drawbacks than rapid loot sources with drawbacks. 

Also like, pigs are pretty decent to have? They are a pretty good source of meat, and pig skin still has some niche for ham bats/turf tamper hats, even later on. I hardly would say they fall off, especially compared to bunnymen.

[Hungry French]

10 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

Мне кажется, что если вы дошли до того, что зачищаете конкретные строения, то вам, вероятно, не нужно ждать, пока их разрушит великан, и вы можете использовать для этого молоток. «Оленьи копыта» не очень практичны за пределами этой области, особенно по сравнению с «Биргером».

Опять же, это всего лишь разовая добыча. ~150 досок/обработанных камней не хватит на всю игру, и в долгосрочной перспективе вам придётся пополнять свои ресурсы. Я гораздо больше ценю надёжность без недостатков, чем быстрые источники добычи с недостатками.

Кроме того, свиньи — довольно приличное животное, не так ли? Они — хороший источник мяса, а свиная кожа до сих пор используется для изготовления шлемов для игры в бейсбол/гольф, даже в наше время. Я бы не сказал, что они бесполезны, особенно по сравнению с кроликами.

150 boards and cut stones are enough for the whole game in peace. You also get 40 skins... There are more than enough of them before you get more cool items. And with the condition that there is rush ruin in 1 autum and eye mask and shield... It's really too much...
and lol. There are a lot of houses in the game that just stand somewhere to the side and do nothing.  Not all players even practice taming. 
Meat? There's usually plenty of it because of the hunting... Or because of the hounds...  And I very rarely see pigs being killed for food. Usually, the source of meat is performed by larger animals.

[Maxil20]

20 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

150 boards and cut stones are enough for the whole game in peace. You also get 40 skins... There are more than enough of them before you get more cool items.

I think this is all I need to know to know that you aren’t really a megabaser. That’s okay, and I don’t mind, but building projects, particularly ones that call for terraforming biomes, will call for way more than the amount of resources you get from pig/bunny houses per biome. That’s why my initial statement brought up that doing these things are a lot of time and effort, which players are often not going to do because its a significant investment, which is why I don’t see it as wrong players can do that investment to make an area more distinct/safer.

22 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Meat? There's usually plenty of it because of the hunting... Or because of the hounds...  And I very rarely see pigs being killed for food. Usually, the source of meat is performed by larger animals.

Pigs are probably my #1 source of meat in my world. They are pretty comfortable to build up/farm, and they are consistent in spawn rates/meat returns. This is especially relevant with full moons and werepigs. It is quite an investment, but the return gives you a lot of normal size meat for cooking with and a lot of pig skin to feed hambats/turf hats, which are still pretty relevant in the endgame. I don’t see how this makes them not worthwhile to seek out and use.

[Hungry French]

4 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

Думаю, это всё, что мне нужно знать, чтобы понять, что ты на самом деле не мегабазер. Ничего страшного, я не против, но для реализации проектов, особенно тех, которые требуют терраформирования биомов, потребуется намного больше ресурсов, чем вы получаете от свинарников/кроличьих ферм в каждом биоме. Вот почему я изначально сказал, что на всё это уходит много времени и сил, на которые игроки часто не готовы тратить время, потому что это значительные вложения. Поэтому я не считаю, что игроки поступают неправильно, вкладывая силы в то, чтобы сделать территорию более заметной/безопасной.

I'm not saying it's not right. This is a common use of game mechanics. It's just that their presence in the game confuses me... It's too much... Not in the spirit of survival...

 

6 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

Свиньи, пожалуй, являются моим основным источником мяса в игре. Их довольно легко разводить/выращивать, и они стабильно дают мясо. Это особенно актуально в полнолуние и при появлении оборотней-свиней. Это довольно затратно, но в результате вы получаете много мяса обычного размера для приготовления блюд и много свиных шкур для кормления летучих мышей/шляп из дерна, которые по-прежнему актуальны в эндгейме. Я не понимаю, почему из-за этого их не стоит искать и использовать.

I don't know why you use ham bat in a late game. There's Shield of Terror. Other players I've seen use other weapons or beeffalo are their weapons.

[Maxil20]

53 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

I'm not saying it's not right. This is a common use of game mechanics. It's just that their presence in the game confuses me... It's too much... Not in the spirit of survival...

I’m not sure what you mean by this. Most survival games can allow you to make various areas “safe” if you put a lot of effort into planning the area and having good knowledge on the game mechanics. This isn’t something that is inherently innate to DS/T to allow players to make an area less harsh.

55 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

I don't know why you use ham bat in a late game. There's Shield of Terror. Other players I've seen use other weapons or beeffalo are their weapons.

The hambat doesn’t need to rely on durability, unlike other weapons, which is why it still retains a solid niche in the endgame. I myself use it a lot if I'm expecting to fight a lot of weak mobs and/or smash down walls (thulecite walls have 400 health when placed in particular, which very quickly adds up if using them for lining purposes). I could easily burn through dozens of weapons compared to one hambat when trying to use those for what I accomplish with a hambat. The hambat also has the advantage of being pretty expendable, especially compared to the shield, where it’s quite a major hassle to get another if the original one breaks. 

You could use a (ornery) beefalo for this purpose, but those technically attack slower than attacking with melee weapons and also come with their own downsides that don’t fit within the scope of my playstyle, so I don’t really like using them.

[Hungry French]

1 hour ago, Maxil20 said:

Я не совсем понимаю, что вы имеете в виду. В большинстве игр на выживание можно сделать различные области «безопасными», если приложить немало усилий для их планирования и хорошо разбираться в игровой механике. В DS/T нет встроенной функции, позволяющей игрокам сделать область менее суровой.

In general, you can destroy almost any spawners and make even the most dangerous areas a wasteland... And there are more settings for generating the world.

 

1 hour ago, Maxil20 said:

В отличие от другого оружия, хамбат не нужно беречь, поэтому он по-прежнему занимает прочную нишу в эндгейме. Я сам часто использую его, если мне предстоит сражаться с большим количеством слабых мобов и/или разрушать стены (в частности, у тулецитовых стен 400 единиц здоровья, что очень быстро накапливается, если использовать их в качестве подкладки). Я мог бы легко израсходовать десятки видов оружия, в отличие от одного хамбата, пытаясь использовать их для тех целей, для которых я использую хамбат. Преимущество хамбата в том, что его можно легко заменить, особенно по сравнению со щитом, который довольно сложно заменить, если он сломается.

Для этой цели вы могли бы использовать (декоративного) буйвола, но технически они атакуют медленнее, чем оружие ближнего боя, а также имеют свои недостатки, которые не вписываются в рамки моего стиля игры, поэтому мне не очень нравится их использовать.

But Beefalo's damage is almost like that of a shadow sword, and its attack speed is... Usually, players use the cancellation of the attack animation. Yes, there is a hammer to break down walls.

[Uedo]

21 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I think this is all I need to know to know that you aren’t really a megabaser.

I mean, I am and I don't use anywhere near that amount I don't think.

Twigs and rocks however..... jeeeeeeeez

[Hungry French]

On 19.08.2025 at 17:04, Cruvimaster said:

Конечно, всегда будет часть сообщества, которой не нравятся определённые боссы. Им не нравится Scion, AFW, и им точно не понравилась бы Dragonfly, если бы Клей не мешал им использовать стены.

Некоторым кажется, что хороший дизайн босса — это когда гиганта можно победить с помощью одного лишь гамбата и футбольного шлема. Всё, что требует других ресурсов, СУЩЕСТВУЮЩИХ в игре, эти игроки называют «сыром» или плохим дизайном.

В других играх сложные боссы воспринимаются как повод для совершенствования навыков игрока. В DST, если что-то кажется сложным, игроки просто приходят на форумы и просят упростить им задачу (и всем остальным, кто этого не хотел).

Никому не нужен Небесный самоцвет, чтобы победить в этой игре. Но они знают, что это очень мощный предмет. Поэтому они умоляют Клея облегчить им задачу.

In other games, difficult bosses are difficult not because they have huge thousands of hp, but because they have more moveset than DST bosses. Attacks are faster. Bosses are not that predictable. The healing system is limited, and taking damage is significant.
Dragon Fly is a great example of a bad boss. 
What can Dragon Fly do with walls? Perform 1 attack for five minutes. One! It's not the boss, it's the trash. Plus, you have to listen to a minute-long soundtrack. 
Instead of thinking through really difficult, interesting and balanced boss battles, we get... this... 

Yes, the new bosses are more interesting than the old bosses in this regard, but they are still so-so.  Frost Jaw is the most normal of the new ones.  

Although 3 attacks and a 1-minute soundtrack for 1.5 - 2 minutes can still remind you of yourself.

Edited August 24, 2025 by Hungry French

[Maxil20]

22 hours ago, Uedo said:

I mean, I am and I don't use anywhere near that amount I don't think.

Are you sure? There are a lot of things that take boards/cut stone. From turfs (docks in particular are pretty heavy on boards/cut stone use, and bridges are especially so on boards) to like half the structures in the game (especially the ones you want several of, such as chests/lightning rods/walls). I had to dedicate a considerable chunk of my world alone to farming boards, as I use those in the tens of thousands. It's one of those things that probably don't appear to be taxing since each craft itself doesn't call for much, but it does very quickly add up in a medium-long term world.

Pig skin is less so, but I would still say I go through a decent amount to warrant farming some to keep the supply stable. 
 

On 8/22/2025 at 4:05 PM, Hungry French said:

In general, you can destroy almost any spawners and make even the most dangerous areas a wasteland...

Again, you still need to put in effort to handle/break the spawners, which most players don't do as you normally don't traverse these areas long enough to consider breaking them down forever.
 

On 8/22/2025 at 4:05 PM, Hungry French said:

But Beefalo's damage is almost like that of a shadow sword, and its attack speed is... Usually, players use the cancellation of the attack animation.

Attack canceling with a beefalo to get DPS that might be slightly more than a hambat just doesn't feel very practical for my case. A hambat is a very easy weapon to make and utilize, and doesn't have many repercussions once you are done with it it. Compare it to a beefalo, which needs a considerable time investment to tame, and then you permanently have something you need to maintain or use for the rest of the world.
 

3 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Plus, you have to listen to a minute-long soundtrack. 

If you dislike the soundtrack that much, then just go and disable it?
 

[Cruvimaster]

3 hours ago, Hungry French said:

What can Dragon Fly do with walls? Perform 1 attack for five minutes. One! It's not the boss, it's the trash.

It's not just one attack in a 5-minute fight. The character is attacked by the giant and attacked by several mobs with 500 HP each and fire damage if they hit the player. But only those who don't use walls to neutralize the mobs in a ridiculous way (terrible mob AI) know this.

3 hours ago, Hungry French said:

In other games, difficult bosses are difficult not because they have huge thousands of hp, but because they have more moveset than DST bosses.

Would you like the boss to have the same HP as the DS (2700) in a game that allows up to 6 Wolfgangs? Would you like the boss to fall in 30 seconds of fighting for a solo player?

Any giant design that was intended to have helpers in the fight will become banal and uninteresting when the helpers are removed from the equation. Whether it's Dragonfly (walls), Bee Queen (electric fence), Klaus (blocking No-Eyed Deer), etc. This is why some collective servers even have rules preventing Maxwell players from using the prison against bosses.

The giant didn't become "trash" because of the design, but it was your choice to make him "trash" to make things easier in the game.

[Hungry French]

6 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Attack canceling with a beefalo to get DPS that might be slightly more than a hambat just doesn't feel very practical for my case. A hambat is a very easy weapon to make and utilize, and doesn't have many repercussions once you are done with it it. Compare it to a beefalo, which needs a considerable time investment to tame, and then you permanently have something you need to maintain or use for the rest of the world.

66 damage is an almost endless shadow sword...

 

6 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

If you dislike the soundtrack that much, then just go and disable it?

The soundtrack is good. But it is not designed for a game where boss battles last for many minutes. And sometimes 10 minutes. :/

 

[Hungry French]

6 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

It's not just one attack in a 5-minute fight. The character is attacked by the giant and attacked by several mobs with 500 HP each and fire damage if they hit the player. But only those who don't use walls to neutralize the mobs in a ridiculous way (terrible mob AI) know this.

It's still just a big piece of meat with an inflated hp that has exactly 3 minion summons per battle.  And if you play without walls, the fight will be even longer.

 

6 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Would you like the boss to have the same HP as the DS (2700) in a game that allows up to 6 Wolfgangs? Would you like the boss to fall in 30 seconds of fighting for a solo player?

Technically... Dragon Fly has 2750 hp... How if she has an x10 hp multiplier? Because she's capable of stun for 10 seconds every 60 seconds every minute... Do you know how much damage Wolfgangs with shadow swords can do in 10 seconds? Minimum 16,000 damage. So it's quite possible to kill her in 30 seconds...

In DS, she gets killed in a minute if you're Wilson with Night Sword. As long as you dodge instead of tanking...

30 seconds is not enough. It should be 2-3 minutes, I think.  And this is for Wilson. And the rest of the characters... All of them should be weakened and their negative disadvantages reinforced.

 

6 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Any giant design that was intended to have helpers in the fight will become banal and uninteresting when the helpers are removed from the equation. Whether it's Dragonfly (walls), Bee Queen (electric fence), Klaus (blocking No-Eyed Deer), etc. This is why some collective servers even have rules preventing Maxwell players from using the prison against bosses.

The giant didn't become "trash" because of the design, but it was your choice to make him "trash" to make things easier in the game.

I can't make a giant trash. Only developers can do this. I can only use the dumb mechanics that the developers give me.

Starting from such brazen things. Finally, the protection system in DST is unbalanced to Rift Content. Or the hila system is absolutely cheap. Or the reworks that make the characters... Omnipotent...
there are many things in the game that make bosses bad.

 

[cybers2001]

On 8/22/2025 at 9:58 AM, Hungry French said:

150 boards and cut stones are enough for the whole game in peace.

Bruh, lol. I probably use close to 150 boards just making fence gates.

[Cruvimaster]

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

It's still just a big piece of meat with an inflated hp that has exactly 3 minion summons per battle.  And if you play without walls, the fight will be even longer.

 

Technically... Dragon Fly has 2750 hp... How if she has an x10 hp multiplier? Because she's capable of stun for 10 seconds every 60 seconds every minute... Do you know how much damage Wolfgangs with shadow swords can do in 10 seconds? Minimum 16,000 damage. So it's quite possible to kill her in 30 seconds...

In DS, she gets killed in a minute if you're Wilson with Night Sword. As long as you dodge instead of tanking...

30 seconds is not enough. It should be 2-3 minutes, I think.  And this is for Wilson. And the rest of the characters... All of them should be weakened and their negative disadvantages reinforced.

 

I can't make a giant trash. Only developers can do this. I can only use the dumb mechanics that the developers give me.

Starting from such brazen things. Finally, the protection system in DST is unbalanced to Rift Content. Or the hila system is absolutely cheap. Or the reworks that make the characters... Omnipotent...
there are many things in the game that make bosses bad.

 

Bee Queen's HP is very close to Dragonfly's. Your judgment is only selective to what you want.

[Uedo]

10 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Are you sure? There are a lot of things that take boards/cut stone. From turfs (docks in particular are pretty heavy on boards/cut stone use, and bridges are especially so on boards) to like half the structures in the game (especially the ones you want several of, such as chests/lightning rods/walls). I had to dedicate a considerable chunk of my world alone to farming boards, as I use those in the tens of thousands. It's one of those things that probably don't appear to be taxing since each craft itself doesn't call for much, but it does very quickly add up in a medium-long term world.

No, you're absolutely right - Just recently been making lots of docks! Didn't even realise! 

[Hungry French]

14 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Bee Queen's HP is very close to Dragonfly's. Your judgment is only selective to what you want.

The boss itself is made so that it is as uncomfortable as possible for a single player. 
Remember the Shadow Pieces. Shadow Knight level 3 takes 2-3 times longer to kill than rook and bishop.

Also about the 2750 hp Dragon Fly. In DS, you can only hit twice between attacks.  In DST, 6 times, which already makes effective hp 3 times. And in general, in DST, the character's attack speed is 20% faster than in DS and there is you can cancellation of the attack animation.

On the same Bearger, you can clearly see what Klei is doing. Due to changes in character animations, attack speed, and Bearger hitboxes, the battle is faster in DST than in DS... And this is despite the fact that he has x2 hp in DST...

15 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Bruh, lol. I probably use close to 150 boards just making fence gates.

Classic mega base gameplay :

Edited August 25, 2025 by Hungry French