Killing Scion was so negative that it was almost a kind of Grief

[Cassielu]

First, you will get Inimical Gestalt, which is a crazy punishment. It is not only an enemy with a rapid rebirth speed, great power and extremely low drop value, but also destroys a series of strategy /gameplay/farm designs based on enlightenment and full moon.

Now there's also the change at moonstrom. You need to go to the small island separately to make Static Restrainer. again, this is another negative change. This is particularly serious for characters without teleport.

Unlimited access to Spark Ark is a positive change, though very limited. And Celestial Jewel? No player with sufficient ability to defeat scion will still be worrying about sanity and darkness during the post rift stage. Not to mention that meager damage boost. Do we have any planar enemies that drop good stuff worth defeating, and do we still need this meager < 10dps? These two are not even enough to make up for the negative changes of Inimical Gestalt.

Why should I be punished for killing Scion? Shouldn't players be rewarded for completing challenges? I can accept a small reward, but at least it shouldn't be a punishment.

Edited July 23, 2025 by Cassielu

[Frosty_Mentos]

inimical gestalts doesn't feel like should span outside of boss battles or specific places like the moon or something

the whole reason why we asked for hounds to be tuned because they were spawning too often and kept being too annoying to deal with

now this thing just kinda goes after you at any full moon even during wicker casted full moon is ridiculous and needs to be tuned

I feel like we got used to brightshades because this is just the new chore we gotta deal with and that is fine since they're not too horrible with the new tools and they don't intrude on players usually.

[Captain_Rage]

The shadow equivalent, along with any other worldly stir-ups / changes, are still missing. This will probably be complemented in the following updates. Currently it feels rather off that an entity spawns that gives the player such a hassle, agreed.

[WendyHater9000]

Idk about first part, but I do agree with ur second part, yah klei should make them able to be prototyped

3rd is kinda meh, I think celestial gem is much stronger than you thought. Just remember that you can stun dfly with Wilson without any damage boost wearing shadow sword and gem crown

[Cassielu]

49 minutes ago, kevindaze said:

Just remember that you can stun dfly with Wilson without any damage boost wearing shadow sword and gem crown

Please don't measure later game with the mindset of the first autumn.

Stun dfly was almost simple to not worth mentioning when you can access Scion.

[Malfario]

Innimical gastalts i am not gonna discuss, i have a post of my own already asking for a rework on the not so little guys.

But i think the new recepies are not really that bad, on the aspect of you needing to go to the island i mena.

Boots exists you can teleport ot the warbot island anytime you want from any shoal in the world. and its not like you can craft a lot of them at once and getting them to your base, same with spark arks. 

The only use for the spark arks late game is for cc and for sparks, you can just stimate you will need around 20 or so, go there, craft them and go back, its not like they are expensive either.

I like stationary crafting stations, adds an interesting challenge in how you desing your base, your travel system and what characters you play. The scenario where they dont work as well is when crafting weapons and armors, because that crashes inmensely with the overall gameplay, most people needing to be able to have a weapon at all times, and neither thuelcite club or glass cutter last long enough before you gotta go back and craft them, or go back to you base and get one from the stack.

Tldr: I think the recepies are perfectly fine as they currently are, probably the spark arks costing a moonstorm spark being a tad annoying to get, but honestly i prefer it over making it costs opals which leds to spark arks costing green gems, spark arks should cost some scrap instead of the moonstorm spark if anything else, you already ahve the nucleation fluid as the difficult to get part

[Edible Coal]

2 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

The shadow equivalent, along with any other worldly stir-ups / changes, are still missing. This will probably be complemented in the following updates. Currently it feels rather off that an entity spawns that gives the player such a hassle, agreed.

imagine you will have to wear both shadow and lunar gear just to not die when making food.......

[Maxil20]

Absolutely Agree on the gestalts for sure, though I side with@Malfario in terms of the crafting (the static restrainers only take moon shards and glass, after all, so its pretty realistic to bulk craft these and head back with a single bootleg).

I feel like people really undersell the importance of how the crown forces max enlightenment. Having light/sanity prep is much different from outright being able to ignore these mechanics. From mass crafting/deconstructioning, to using the crown for general combat, to caving and ruins clearing, you start to realize just how useful it can be. I myself love it for general boss combat. Instead of needing to spend dozens of sanity foods up to keep the crown up, you just Hit things and have your sanity mended in like 15 minutes regardless of how intense the combat is. I think its a very useful reward, especially in the endgame. It really is just the gestalts and The Filter Of Blue that weigh the usefulness down, which I hope they address in the beta.

[hoxi]

4 hours ago, Cassielu said:

First, you will get Inimical Gestalt

I think I already said enough on this matter with my bug reports and some prior discussions.

The gist of it is that they really, really, need to work like how shadow creatures do, in that they cannot be hit by most damage sources unless already aggro'd (and normally this also requires to force attack to do so), so no accidental aggroing or attacking. If they want them to remain visible even at lowest enlightenment, that's fine I think.

Their targeting mechanics are also all over the place and are very inconsistent. Ultimately, enlightenment/sanity level doesn't matter to them, it only matters if you wear the crown (upgraded or not) or the brightshade helmet, if you're the target. They also tunnel vision on one player at a time and ignore any other targets, even shadow ones, unless attacked.

I feel like we'd need to see how they fully rework them first to give proper feedback because they're too much of a mess right now.

 

4 hours ago, Cassielu said:

Now there's also the change at moonstrom. You need to go to the small island separately to make Static Restrainer. again, this is another negative change. This is particularly serious for characters without teleport.

This could be solved by making some of those recipes able to be prototyped. While I agree with some of the comments saying that you could prepare in bulk before going there to craft, you also have to keep in mind that Wagstaff did these things for you and didn't require a recipe, nor moving to a specific location to make them. I really appreciate the changes made to make these things make more sense though, so I personally wouldn't mind if this remained as is.

The only thing that'd be kinda cool to see is some sort of visual indicator on the lunar bosses about the nucleation fluid, though it's not needed. There's some speculation to be made from the fact that the bosses start dropping that after what happens to Wagstaff, and not just as a gameplay thing.

 

4 hours ago, Cassielu said:

Unlimited access to Spark Ark is a positive change, though very limited. And Celestial Jewel? No player with sufficient ability to defeat scion will still be worrying about sanity and darkness during the post rift stage. Not to mention that meager damage boost. Do we have any planar enemies that drop good stuff worth defeating, and do we still need this meager < 10dps? These two are not even enough to make up for the negative changes of Inimical Gestalt.

I really feel like Inimical Gestalts could drop Enlightened Crown shards, that is, if they'll remain to be as tanky and deadly as they are (this is even in the case their targeting and some of their mechanics are addressed and are made to be more consistent and intuitive).

At that point in the game, players getting extra shards won't really be game breaking, it'll just be a nice way to get them without having to do the whole Celestial Champion fight again, and you still have to kill them and deal with them, so it's not "free" either.

 

  

20 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

It really is just the gestalts and The Filter Of Blue that weigh the usefulness down, which I hope they address in the beta.

Yeah, pretty much. And as many people said for a while now, the post processing effects of high enlightenment need to be addressed in general.

Edited July 23, 2025 by hoxi