Using Personal Floater as a second chance against Crab King.

[Cruvimaster]

I removed the boss's HP bar because of the promise in this forum that the fight would be more difficult. They lied to me because it remained very easy.  

Personal Floater gives a second chance, but if the player sinks in a place surrounded by ice, ends the fight.
 

 

[Milordo]

I don't get why the crass comment about boss healthbar being visible when it's already been discussed to death....

Anyway, interesting. Yes, it doesn't seems the final solution but it is a good solution nevertheless. You should move with it...

[GamePlayer42]

30 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I removed the boss's HP bar because of the promise in this forum that the fight would be more difficult. They lied to me because it remained very easy.  

Personal Floater gives a second chance, but if the player sinks in a place surrounded by ice, ends the fight.
 

 

o.O

 

[Cruvimaster]

10 minutes ago, Milordo said:

You should move with it...

I agree, as this would allow you to leave a place where you cannot put the boat.

12 minutes ago, Milordo said:

I don't get why the crass comment about boss healthbar being visible when it's already been discussed to death....

It was a joke with the argument that the fight gets easier.

[cybers2001]

Proud of you, boo. Knew you could do it without the training wheels.

Not sure what the point of this thread is, though. It's just reiterating what has already been said in the patch notes thread.

[fishofwar]

8 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Not sure what the point of this thread is, though.

From the looks of it, bragging attempts and punching down at people who'd like a boss health bar

Edited July 4, 2025 by fishofwar

[hoxi]

3 hours ago, fishofwar said:

From the looks of it, bragging attempts and punching down at people who'd like a boss health bar

Pretty sure it's also a jab towards people who like new Crab King but disliked the old one, because old Crab King was considered more difficult (mostly artificially). What with the emphasizing on the new one being so easy for them that it's a joke/it's laughable, and that having a health bar or not didn't make a difference.

Edited July 4, 2025 by hoxi

[Cruvimaster]

2 hours ago, fishofwar said:

From the looks of it, bragging attempts and punching down at people who'd like a boss health bar

Your interpretative creativity is very great. I use the life bar, and I removed it precisely for the critics who argue that the fight will be easier if Klei brings the bar.

People want to convince people that the bar would make things easier, and they get offended when I bring a video proving the opposite. They just say it. I prove it. That's the difference.

I've even seen some speed runners being criticized for using a mod with a life bar and having their runs devalued by DST purists.

32 minutes ago, hoxi said:

Pretty sure it's also punching down on people who like new Crab King but disliked the old one, because old Crab King was considered more difficult (mostly artificially). What with the emphasizing on the new one being so easy for them that it's a joke/it's laughable, and that having a health bar or not didn't make a difference.

 

Do people feel punching down by finding out that the boss is easy?

It is a customizable boss and each player can choose to make it almost impossible or simply continue to use the bee cheese (which works the same as in the old crab king).

Then it would be more a question of people's ego in wanting a boss to be difficult at any cost.

[Tranoze]

14 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

it remained very easy. 

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

finding out that the boss is easy?

2 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I bring a video proving the opposite.

Bro you fight with 0 dodge in mind, just tank entire fight with the ruin gears you c_spawned.

I dont see this video prove anything. You already learn all pattern the boss have, have fight it before therefor you know how long it often take to kill the boss, you know it heal when it eat rock.

Try fight a boss you never fought before, without healthbar first, then with heal bar, you ll see the different, especially if they have special ability to heal and clear way to interrupt.

[RozeMeteor]

Imo people that support skilltrees as something healthy for the game while throwing stones at something simple as a healthbar are completely unreasonable. They say the first bring a ''massive'' variety to the game which is a lie, not to mention how much they absolute destroy any use of information of the game ''oh but the interactions,they're so much fun and diverse'' Sure little Timmy try play around the same interaction more times and you will start to feel bored quite fast.

Anyone who played other games with skilltrees specially not branched ones know how much better true variety is, and to complete that so variety could be conquered much better with more items that ain't being locked behind chars, while bringing individual or diferent synergies to each one, like how character perks used to work.

As for to the later, yes information is very powerfull, but a lot of people say DST isn't that ''uncompromising'' survival game anymore or it's just a sandbox therefore everthing gotta be fun and balance don't exist, yet a lot of those same people argue that health bar will destroy the game.. i don't see a problem for visual clues for someone who is starting, and just a confort for someone who don't wanna keep track of how much health a boss have all the time.

[Cruvimaster]

23 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Bro you fight with 0 dodge in mind, just tank entire fight with the ruin gears you c_spawned.

That's exactly why the boss is easy. How difficult is it to go to the ruins in the first season of the game? Someone who is going to face CK has full conditions to go to the ruins.

The funny thing is that you have to go to the ruins to make the Star Caller's Staff, and it's a great place to get gems for CK. But using items from the place you had to go to is a problem for the player.
 

23 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

I dont see this video prove anything. You already learn all pattern the boss have, have fight it before therefor you know how long it often take to kill the boss, you know it heal when it eat rock.

For those who don't know the boss's patterns, the life bar is irrelevant. It's not what will magically teach you how to fight a boss. The life bar doesn't teach you the moveset. There are thousands of games outside the DST world that prove this. You just don't want to see it.
 

23 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Try fight a boss you never fought before, without healthbar first, then with heal bar, you ll see the different, especially if they have special ability to heal and clear way to interrupt.

When I defeated all the old bosses, including AFW, I didn't use the bar. So what do you think of this? It proves to me that soulslike is easier than DST because they have a health bar.

Edited July 4, 2025 by Cruvimaster

[Tranoze]

23 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

For those who don't know the boss's patterns, the life bar is irrelevant.

It does lots of things. It show you which weapon more effective against which boss since klei introduced shadow/lunar weapon. It tell you with current amount of weapon you have can you kill it. Like if you have 1 spear, you see werepig, each spear hit for 34, you ll know one spear is not enough and you need to prepare more spear before going to fight it.
It will also show you werepig heal, which i have to learn it the hard way without heal bar where i fight it for 10 straight days with wendy in cave and realize it will never die if my dps keep being low.
After going on my own host server and show it healing capability, i now know i need to be more risky to deal more dps if i want to fight it.

23 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

It's not what will magically teach you how to fight a boss. The life bar doesn't teach you the moveset.

Move set arent the only thing needed to fight bosses. You need resources to fight it. Even if you know the move set, if you only success 50% of the times, you still need 100% more resources. Health bar allow you to know how much resources is needed to actually kill the boss. And it ll show you bosses that heal to full if you leave mid fight.

23 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

When I defeated all the old bosses, including AFW, I didn't use the bar. 

Pattern can be learned with or without heal bar, yes. That why you can learn to defeat old boss without them. This is still a wiki game after all. But enabling health bar still allow you to see lots of useful information, include new information. 
 

23 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

There are thousands of games outside the DST world that prove this.

If you talking about soul games, you have unlimited capped resources where only move set matter (i remember like 12 healing potions in elden ring, one bottle with multiple use in monkey king). Unlike soul games, the resources you used to kill bosses in dst you have to farm them yourself (you can have multiple full stacks of pierogy in inventory but you have to farm them), All boss can be killed with enough armor and healing, without even knowing dodge pattern, as long as you have good enough armor and healing.

Edited July 4, 2025 by Tranoze

[Bumber64]

48 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

It will also show you werepig heal, which i have to learn it the hard way without heal bar where i fight it for 10 straight days with wendy in cave and realize it will never die if my dps keep being low.

This is terrible game design.

[Wawchik]

Health bars do make the game easier, it's a fact, but they don't make you stronger, they just make the game less annoying, so I think no one should be ashamed for wanting health bars in the game. I myself always play with health bars and I will never play without them because I don't care if the game is supposed to be uncompromising or something, I just want to have fun, I don't want the game to be annoying for me. Playing with health bars is a personal choice (at least on pc) so why not let console players have that choice. It's a rare example of "if you don't like it don't use it" 

Edited July 4, 2025 by Wawchik

[Cruvimaster]

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

It will also show you werepig heal, which i have to learn it the hard way without heal bar where i fight it for 10 straight days with wendy in cave and realize it will never die if my dps keep being low.

 

The devs hid the boss's health regeneration. Ok. I'm guessing you're going to tell me that you did the boss fight without doing any research on it. Ok.

How did you figure out how to free him? How did you figure out that you should use Pick/Axe? How did you figure out that he's the one who destroys the pillars in the second phase? Was it all trial and error?

If you watched a video or researched the Wiki, you had more powerful information than the health bar. In this hypothetical example, the "ease of use" wasn't the health bar, but the research.

There are several arguments against Klei implementing the life bar natively. Some points are good, by the way.

The strongest of them is: the game becomes easier.

Do you believe that those who bring this specific argument play with Wilson (and without using his skill tree)? Or do you think that these people choose characters that make the game easier?

Which of these situations makes the fight against AFW easier: Wes with the life bar or Wolfgang (+skill tree) without a life bar?

That said, why doesn't Klei allow this as an optional feature in the settings?

[Tranoze]

7 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

How did you figure out how to free him? How did you figure out that you should use Pick/Axe? How did you figure out that he's the one who destroys the pillars in the second phase? Was it all trial and error?

I saw a friend kill him from afar. Then few session later i do the same. The only different is he playing wolfgang while im playing wendy without abigail. I dodge the same way as him.
At first i got hit by few times, then i get used to how to dodge it. then the fight goes on.

8 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

If you watched a video or researched the Wiki, you had more powerful information than the health bar. 

Not so much. It would be the same as me watching my friends. They rarely include detail like what NOT to do when fighting those bosses when they show the perfect run. 

And wiki are just all words, you cant remember them all if you just read them without actual fighting the boss.

[Milordo]

4 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

This is terrible game design.

Yup. I woudn't say terrible, just one easy missable mistake from Klei because it's so easily fixable by putting a visual cue that he's healing

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

The devs hid the boss's health regeneration. Ok. I'm guessing you're going to tell me that you did the boss fight without doing any research on it. Ok.

How did you figure out how to free him? How did you figure out that you should use Pick/Axe? How did you figure out that he's the one who destroys the pillars in the second phase? Was it all trial and error?

The literal characters tell you about using the Pick/Axe. It's not a surprise that the game is feasible blind when it's built and has been built to be done blind.

Destroying pillars is totally trial and error, and yes badly implemented for blind experience. I discover it blind after the 4th time fighting him. 

[AliceShiki]

3 hours ago, Tranoze said:

And wiki are just all words, you cant remember them all if you just read them without actual fighting the boss.

You can remember all the important stuff without fighting the boss... Like, the fact that the boss heals at specific points in the fight is pretty easy to remember from looking it up on the wiki once.

Remembering the specific attack patterns from looking it up on the wiki is more complicated, but that's the least relevant part of the info there.

Same thing for stuff like looking up Dragonfly. You might not remember how often it does the stomp attack in Enraged mode, but it's pretty easy to remember that you need to kill the last surviving larva yourself to guarantee enraged mode, otherwise you fall into a 50/50 of more larvae being summoned or enraged mode happening.

[Tranoze]

52 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

You can remember all the important stuff without fighting the boss...

Maybe you can, but i cant.
Especially with wall of text. Only important stuffs i saw in wiki page is it max hp / starting hp (so i can estimate how much weapon should i bring, and how it looks, and how to get to them)

I spent 2 years reading wiki before, im sure i have already read about iron hulk (hamlet) multiple times, but after 5 years of playing dst, my friend start a server with hamlet mod in, and iron hulk just destroy me in my first encounter.
So no, just reading is not enough to remember or know which one is important stuffs./

And even wiki cant contain everything in the game. One thing i know from heal bar but doesnt mentioned in wiki is Scrappy Werepig actually heal. It occur when you damage it, then reload it, then it heal quite rapidly (i also learn it the hard way because wiki didnt mention Scrappy werepig can heal, i thought it cant, so i slowly drain it hp from afar, go to base to restock, and go drain it hp again, that go on for 3 season and seeing the pig not dieing make me try again with a heal bar mod then i saw it start to heal everytime i reload him.). 

Edited July 4, 2025 by Tranoze

[Uedo]

What a weird hostile tone some people have made on this thread.....

I appreciate the post @Cruvimaster, thanks for showcasing some of your testing for us

[Bumber64]

37 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

I spent 2 years reading wiki before, im sure i have already read about iron hulk (hamlet) multiple times, but after 5 years of playing dst, my friend start a server with hamlet mod in, and iron hulk just destroy me in my first encounter.
So no, just reading is not enough to remember or know which one is important stuffs.

Then would a health bar have allowed you to kill iron hulk on the first try? Considering you specifically prepared for the boss's health?

Edited July 4, 2025 by Bumber64

[Tranoze]

4 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Then would a health bar have allowed you to kill iron hulk on the first try? Considering you specifically prepared for the boss's health?

It would allow me to know if i can kill it on the first try. It doesnt matter too much on old boss, but for boss that can heal when you go back, it matter if you prepared enough.

Let say you need 3 set of armor/weapon to kill a boss with your skill. Knowing you need 3 would help you kill it. Not knowing that and bring 1 set of armor + weapon everytime, and everytime you go prepare the armor and weapon boss heal to full end up making you using like 30 set of armor and weapon for example.

[Edible Coal]

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

It would allow me to know if i can kill it on the first try. It doesnt matter too much on old boss, but for boss that can heal when you go back, it matter if you prepared enough.

Let say you need 3 set of armor/weapon to kill a boss with your skill. Knowing you need 3 would help you kill it. Not knowing that and bring 1 set of armor + weapon everytime, and everytime you go prepare the armor and weapon boss heal to full end up making you using like 30 set of armor and weapon for example.

i suggest you use a test world to practice boss fights

[cybers2001]

20 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

People want to convince people that the bar would make things easier, and they get offended when I bring a video proving the opposite. They just say it. I prove it. That's the difference.

I'm not sure how a clip of you killing crab king the same way I have for dozens of times proves anything, but, seriously, if this is about health bars, just do what you want. Nobody is going to judge you for using it.

Edited July 5, 2025 by cybers2001

[AliceShiki]

11 hours ago, Tranoze said:

And even wiki cant contain everything in the game. One thing i know from heal bar but doesnt mentioned in wiki is Scrappy Werepig actually heal. It occur when you damage it, then reload it, then it heal quite rapidly (i also learn it the hard way because wiki didnt mention Scrappy werepig can heal, i thought it cant, so i slowly drain it hp from afar, go to base to restock, and go drain it hp again, that go on for 3 season and seeing the pig not dieing make me try again with a heal bar mod then i saw it start to heal everytime i reload him.). 

Bosses fully healing when deloading is kinda par for the course? Why would you even expect them to not do it?

I'm sure some bosses don't actually heal when deloaded, but I'd be surprised every time if I saw it happening. Healing on deload should be a basic expectation.

... Also, wtf even was that other example you gave? "I stopped playing for 5 years and forgot some stuff because of that", like... Yeah? That happens to everyone. Nobody will remember the details of stuff they haven't interacted with in 5 years, that's just normal human brain behavior. If you ask me about the plot of a manga that I read 5 years ago, I'll be able to tell you some of the main plot beats, but I'll naturally have forgotten all the smaller details, as well as some important plot beats too... That's just normal. 5 years is just way too much time.