Are "black health"/booster shot mechanics even a thing that adds a lot to the game? I think they are outdated and discouraging to new players

[Bumber64]

2 hours ago, Milordo said:

I revive with 50% sanity. And? No, really. And? Or I'll sleep it. Or I'll eat some sanity food. Or I'll simply do what 95% of the times players do, I'll fight shadow creatures for nightmare fuel. What others cost they have? Spider glands? No, because spiders are the most meta and farmable thing in the game. You already have them. Grass? That's the only point I'll give you, because you need it always a lot and depending on the situation and moment of the game, yes, cut grass could cost and you shouldn't waste it in early game by dying and spamming telltale hearts a lot. But what about all the rest of the game where I farmed cut grass and now I have stacks and stacks of it? No cost.

So no, I can spam telltale hearts if that would be removed.

Or you could use LGA or second chance watch, but I'm not sure what the benefit is in your strategy of getting yourself killed and revived. Use the grass to make a bedroll, without the dying.

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

Never said as farming, but as a free bonus.

You only get a bonus if your stats were below that point before death, otherwise you're down hunger and/or sanity (plus Wilson's beard, etc.) If you're shrugging off the rest of the recovery, you can't turn around and pretend the heart is an effective recovery source. Nor can you pretend that you're swimming in grass and spider glands (and players willing to revive you for the Nth time), but fresh out of red gems and NMF.

Edited June 12, 2025 by Bumber64

[MarcoReverie]

On 6/3/2025 at 10:46 AM, FreyaMaluk said:

I guess I need to add a disclaimer cuz TLTR I guess. I know how to survive in DST, this is not coming from a new person to the game. It is about my interactions observing BRAND NEW PLAYERS play the game. PLAYING BLINDLY.

I think dying for newbies is already hard enough to deal with. Veteran players don't consider how step the learning curve for this game is for absolute new players. A totally new player to the game (not me, I have been around for a while) and they are so overwhelmed by so many things that having him deal with also booster shots to punish their learning mistakes is just such a chore and just adds frustration to the learning curve and eventually decreases motivation to keep learning and playing the game altogether. 

I am aware you can customize settings to ignore the health penalty after death but most people won't know what to do to change it and it is not possible to even consider it in most public servers. Maybe it would be a wise idea to simply remove this altogether or rework it in a way that allows for a diversity of ingredients. 

____

Suggestions of the discussion TLDR:

- adding them as default in the crafting tab

- considering other ingredients to replace rot like red caps, berries or honey

- adding more recipes to restore it

- adding extra effects to cooked recipes to boost it.

- considering restoring it over time as days progress ingame

- make starting autumn with pieces of rot laying around. 

Speaking as a new player, yes, it was annoying the first times dealing with booster shot, mainly because of rot and the science tier requirement. It was difficult to get enough rot on first days because we try to eat everything we have of food.

I used to play with my girlfriend and at the beginings we barely crafted 1 booster shot for every one after died at least 2 times.

So, maybe crafting booster shot from science tier 1 could be better for newbis OR

Able for several uses, at least 3, maybe

OR

New recipies, of course based on mushrooms (red, green and blue cap).

 

[AliceShiki]

4 hours ago, Milordo said:

Btw an error in the wiki, if you want to fix it, is about the wave system. It's based on the old system, it's outdated.

This? https://dontstarve.wiki.gg/wiki/Waves

You mean this part?

Quote

Waves look different in Don't Starve Together. They can only be created by Malbatross, Gnarwail, Gnarwail Horn, and Grass Gator.

Waves push away items on the water. When a player is hit by a wave, it applies 9 to player.

What's wrong about it?

[FreyaMaluk]

1 minute ago, AliceShiki said:

This? https://dontstarve.wiki.gg/wiki/Waves

You mean this part?

What's wrong about it?

Could we pls move the wiki discussion to another thread pls?

[Milordo]

9 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Or you could use LGA or second chance watch, but I'm not sure what the benefit is in your strategy of getting yourself killed and revived. Use the grass to make a bedroll, without the dying.

Or you could read since I said it already it depends on situations and groups since in multi LGA could come in short when resources are short. Second chance watch can't be considered because it's 1 in 18 characters, and you're also forced to play Wanda, and we're considering the general revival options. Again, I specifically wrote it.

I'm not even talking about a strategy of getting myself killed and revived, jeez read. 

9 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

You only get a bonus if your stats were below that point before death, otherwise you're down hunger and/or sanity (plus Wilson's beard, etc.) If you're shrugging off the rest of the recovery, you can't turn around and pretend the heart is an effective recovery source. Nor can you pretend that you're swimming in grass and spider glands (and players willing to revive you for the Nth time), but fresh out of red gems and NMF.

What? Uh? 

I don't know what you're saying. To inform you, when you revive a teammate through telltale heart you get the bonus to receive a lot of sanity (can't remember the exact quantity), which is always nice to have. I'm not shrugging anything, since I pointed out many times to others people here, that are presumably not new players, it has a little cost and a little weight to the game, since you lower the max hp to your teammate and -40 hp. If the black heart penalty would be removed, you can spam it with all your friends because you get revived with 50 hp (which is big considering the unbalanceness of armors and all) and you have a lot of tools in the game to heal up. It would broke the game.

 

Then I said specifically everything about grass, and I will not repeat myself if you don't want to read, but spider glands? How do you play? Because you ALWAYS farm spiders and since we have multiple characters (more than half of the roaster) and multiple strategies to farm them, yes, I do swim in spider glands. I don't know what type of gameplay you have. You do then swim in nightmare fuel, yes, but you don't in red gems and gold, which they have a lot of uses in the game.

6 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

This? https://dontstarve.wiki.gg/wiki/Waves

You mean this part?

What's wrong about it?

I'll message you in private to not clog the thread.

[Bumber64]

18 hours ago, Milordo said:

I don't know what you're saying. To inform you, when you revive a teammate through telltale heart you get the bonus to receive a lot of sanity (can't remember the exact quantity), which is always nice to have. I'm not shrugging anything, since I pointed out many times to others people here, that are presumably not new players, it has a little cost and a little weight to the game, since you lower the max hp to your teammate and -40 hp. If the black heart penalty would be removed, you can spam it with all your friends because you get revived with 50 hp (which is big considering the unbalanceness of armors and all) and you have a lot of tools in the game to heal up. It would broke the game.

Then I said specifically everything about grass, and I will not repeat myself if you don't want to read, but spider glands? How do you play? Because you ALWAYS farm spiders and since we have multiple characters (more than half of the roaster) and multiple strategies to farm them, yes, I do swim in spider glands. I don't know what type of gameplay you have. You do then swim in nightmare fuel, yes, but you don't in red gems and gold, which they have a lot of uses in the game.

I forgot it gives you sanity to revive others, but it's still not worth it because you're presumably the one paying 40 health for it. Try a banana shake instead.

So 50 health is big, but why did they die? (Note: You don't respawn with armor equipped.) Have a pierogi. Have a whole bunch. It doesn't matter what you had for lunch.

You're silently ignoring that food already broke the game, while using telltale as a scapegoat. Basically fussing about it being used as a cooked blue cap. (Did you know you can use raw blue caps to recover the lost health from cooked ones, therefore unbalancing the game? It's free sanity! Unless you're struggling to find blue caps, lulz?) You miss the point that it still can't compete.

Spoiler

As Webber, I eat spider glands for breakfast. I literally eat them just so they don't litter the ground. However, you're now claiming a shortage of gold? MM → eggs → gold. Did you run out of MM?

It's the grass I still can't comprehend. There's only one slow source of this and so many uses, bundling wraps among them. Rope bridge, haha. (If you say Wicker/Max, I'll say Wanda/Wortox.)

Red gems grow on trees now, on top of existing farming methods. Use effigy instead if you like. Neither depends on a nearby living player.

Edited June 13, 2025 by Bumber64

[Milordo]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

I forgot it gives you sanity to revive others, but it's still not worth it because you're presumably the one paying 40 health for it. Try a banana shake instead.

So 50 health is big, but why did they die? (Note: You don't respawn with armor equipped.) Have a pierogi. Have a whole bunch. It doesn't matter what you had for lunch.

You're silently ignoring that food already broke the game, while using telltale as a scapegoat. Basically fussing about it being used as a cooked blue cap. (Did you know you can use raw blue caps to recover the lost health from cooked ones, therefore unbalancing the game? It's free sanity! Unless you're struggling to find blue caps, lulz?) You miss the point that it still can't compete.

  Hide contents

As Webber, I eat spider glands for breakfast. I literally eat them just so they don't litter the ground. However, you're now claiming a shortage of gold? MM → eggs → gold. Did you run out of MM?

It's the grass I still can't comprehend. There's only one slow source of this and so many uses, bundling wraps among them. Rope bridge, haha. (If you say Wicker/Max, I'll say Wanda/Wortox.)

Red gems grow on trees now, on top of existing farming methods. Use effigy instead if you like. Neither depends on a nearby living player.

I forgot eggs gave gold for Pig King, thanks. I should use this option more. I guess we're even now lol. Anyway I don't think I will respond further because it seems you're very confused about the whole discussion, since I never ignored that food broke the game, pierogies and what not. The point of the discussion started with the assumption that you're dead or others too, not before.

[MarcoReverie]

On 6/9/2025 at 1:43 AM, FreyaMaluk said:

 

I can assure having hair doesn't really incentivize new players to build effigies either. They are bombarded with so many things at the beginning that they have way more pressing concerns to deal with. Besides, you need to craft a presti to craft it. Do you in all honesty think that a brand new player would from the get go understand they have to catch 4 bunnies, make a top hat and make boards to do that? There is a reason why Wilson is basically noob main. And they die... a lot....  

Yes, it was difficult, I spend a lot of time (and dies) to learn to craft my first meat effigy. But, almost inmediately I star to crafting my red amulets. 

So, its good idea give to Wilson the booster shot as a basic item (or maybe as a perk into a rework of skills related to science), but could be better, for new players that Wilson can craft the meat effigy without the presti, as a skill related to human transmutation. 

[FreyaMaluk]

On 6/11/2025 at 9:10 PM, MarcoReverie said:

Speaking as a new player, yes, it was annoying the first times dealing with booster shot, mainly because of rot and the science tier requirement. It was difficult to get enough rot on first days because we try to eat everything we have of food.

I used to play with my girlfriend and at the beginings we barely crafted 1 booster shot for every one after died at least 2 times.

So, maybe crafting booster shot from science tier 1 could be better for newbis OR

Able for several uses, at least 3, maybe

OR

New recipies, of course based on mushrooms (red, green and blue cap).

 

I think those a good points, how about if the booster shot was also always available same as the telltale heart?

[Milordo]

4 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I think those a good points, how about if the booster shot was also always available same as the telltale heart?

I like it too.

[SilverSpoon]

After reading this thread, I consider a compromise that both Black Health supporters and opponents advocates could agree on.

Add "Health Station" some basic materials and HP create buildable by players, this facilities allow you to recover Black Health for free. However, to prevent zombie tactics, all health stations have the common cooldown time or the common "remain of Black Health that can be recovered" that accumulates over time.

Booster shots will remain as a way to ignore cooldowns.

Edited June 14, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[Szczuku]

If anything I feel like the black health punishment mechanic is underutilized in game

[SapoLover]

1 hour ago, Szczuku said:

If anything I feel like the black health punishment mechanic is underutilized in game

That'd be nice. If you told me that booster shots are important to carry because there is an enemy with an attack that takes away max health, that would be fine. Or that there's a place that slowly takes max hp so you gotta be quick or bring a ton of the item, that too.

But to be used on players revived by a telltale heart? Death is already a punishment, what's the point?

[Milordo]

2 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

After reading this thread, I consider a compromise that both Black Health supporters and opponents advocates could agree on.

Add "Health Station" some basic materials and HP to create, this facilities allow you to recover Black Health for free. However, to prevent zombie tactics, all health stations have the common cooldown time or the common "remain of Black Health that can be recovered" that accumulates over time.

Booster shots will remain as a way to ignore cooldowns.

Maybe something is lost due to translation, this health station you're describing, is something like a structure built by players? Because then I would prefer it more than "black heart passively regenerates in time". It would be even better if instead of a cooldown, it needs to be recharged by items, since Don't Starve is a survival game and this costant increasingly use of "cooldown" systems of these last years can be bad. And to tie to FreyaMaluk ideas, the items needed to recharge the station comes only from autumn. This way you have a strategic option between this station and booster shots, and you're not limited by "waiting" and could spam the uses of this station.

Plus my creative mind is going wild because I was thinking of also naturally spawned structures found in the Ruins, that players can't built, like some ancient structures tech that heals you any from of "black malus" if you hug them because now in the Ruins there are cursed vases that put you black heart and infected mutated plants that put you black stomach for example, but this ancient machine is rust and wear out thus having the cooldown system you proposed. This idea of mine tho, it's not about new players since well....Ruins, but again it is something we brought out that this mechanic is underutilized. 

Then I could go on and on with also bosses that have abilities or attacks that put you black heart, ecc....

[SilverSpoon]

9 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Maybe something is lost due to translation, this health station you're describing, is something like a structure built by players? 

Thank you for pointing that out, I have corrected it. Please forgive my poor English.

[Cheggf]

I don't think there's any difference at all between waiting x time for something to turn into rot so you can cure the black health or waiting x time for something to come off cooldown so you can cure the black health. It's just paraphrasing how the game currently works and proposing it as a new solution.

[Milordo]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

I don't think there's any difference at all between waiting x time for something to turn into rot so you can cure the black health or waiting x time for something to come off cooldown so you can cure the black health. It's just paraphrasing how the game currently works and proposing it as a new solution.

Yeah, that also. That's why I proposed for items to recharge the station and the cooldown for something fixed in a hard level with new dangers.

[FluffyBun]

On 6/7/2025 at 7:49 AM, Well-met said:

people trying to rewrite core mechanics from a time they weren't even playing the game is straight up weird.

That mechanic has been rewritten from 3 deaths and you are out, to this telltale thing as a "compromise"

Telltale hearts are a haphazard solution that wasn't developed after it's jammed into the game

Edited June 16, 2025 by FluffyBun

[Hungry French]

On 03.06.2025 at 19:46, FreyaMaluk said:

Думаю, мне нужно добавить оговорку, потому что TLTR, наверное. Я знаю, как выживать в DST, я не новичок в этой игре. Речь идёт о моих наблюдениях за тем, как играют совершенно НОВЫЕ ИГРОКИ. Играя вслепую.

Я думаю, что новичкам и так достаточно сложно освоиться. Опытные игроки не задумываются о том, насколько сложна кривая обучения в этой игре для абсолютных новичков. Совершенно новый игрок в этой игре (не я, я уже давно в ней), и он настолько перегружен информацией, что ему приходится иметь дело ещё и с бустерами, которые наказывают его за ошибки в обучении, что является такой рутиной и только добавляет разочарования на пути к освоению и в конечном итоге снижает мотивацию продолжать обучение и играть в игру в целом.

Я знаю, что вы можете настроить параметры так, чтобы не получать штраф за здоровье после смерти, но большинство людей не знают, что нужно сделать, чтобы изменить это, и на большинстве общедоступных серверов это даже не рассматривается. Возможно, было бы разумно просто убрать это или переработать так, чтобы можно было использовать разные ингредиенты.

____

Краткие выводы из обсуждения:

— добавление их по умолчанию на вкладке «Создание»

— можно использовать другие ингредиенты вместо гнили, например, красные шляпки, ягоды или мёд

- добавление дополнительных рецептов для его восстановления

- добавление дополнительных ингредиентов в приготовленные блюда для усиления эффекта.

— возможно, со временем он восстановится по мере прохождения игры

- начните осень с кусочков гниющей древесины, разбросанных вокруг.

Simplify the game even more for beginners ? It's easier to make light mode 2.0 lol. 
The mechanics of rebirth and black health have already been made MUCH more enjoyable for beginners...
where better?

[Bumber64]

2 hours ago, FluffyBun said:

That mechanic has been rewritten from 3 deaths and you are out, to this telltale thing as a "compromise"

When was it 3 deaths? Is that an early DST thing? DS was 1 death, unless you preemptively made use of an effigy (lose max health until death), touch stone (limited), or LGA (give up chest armor).

Given Wonkey is removed on death, if they made the mechanic today, the max health decrease wouldn't stack and you'd recover it if you died and were revived by another means.

Edited June 16, 2025 by Bumber64