Are "black health"/booster shot mechanics even a thing that adds a lot to the game? I think they are outdated and discouraging to new players

[Bumber64]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

None of them have died so much that they ran out of touchstones

If you haven't run out of touchstones, it's because you haven't died near them. There's 1 on the surface and 1 in the caves, each usable once (without changing character). I'm not sure these are ever a serious consideration.

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

If he's struggling to learn I would suggest helping him along and explaining things to him

TBH, you can't really teach someone not to die. If they're not great at DST-style combat, the way to avoid deaths is to have them stay in base forever or play the game for them (e.g., collect pig skins). Doesn't sound like the issue is at OP's end.

IMO, booster shot could require only 2 rot. Wanda and Wortox's revive items could restore max health on living survivors. (Wendy has a wreath effect, but forget-me-lots are impractical.)

Edited June 4, 2025 by Bumber64

[Evelo]

5 hours ago, Milordo said:

With allllll being said, I can maybe found a breach to help your case on this. As @Well-met @Evelo @nicolas103 said this mechanic is instead very underutilized and it would help for your discussion to point out to balance the game by making more (reasonably) dangers that creates black health BUT also making more options to heal it.

Hey, I just throw out issues. Players are excellent at identifying problems with games, but horrible at coming up with solutions. It is fun to throw around the idea here or there but it boils down to the developer to determine what they want for their game. I have a lot of issues I want Klei to fix, they are just choosing to not fix them (either willingly or lack of knowledge it is a problem.)

4 hours ago, Cheggf said:

I've introduced about 8 friends to this game and not a single one of them has been annoyed by the booster shot mechanic. None of them have died so much that they ran out of touchstones, and ran out of life giving amulets, and used so many boosters that the health penalty was becoming difficult to clear. In fact, I don't even remember if I've ever given them a booster.

I am really jealous of your friends. One of mine just, going to be blunt, is stupid. I get really aggravated playing games with him at times.

[AliceShiki]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

Players are excellent at identifying problems with games, but horrible at coming up with solutions. It is fun to throw around the idea here or there but it boils down to the developer to determine what they want for their game.

I just wanted to say I'm happy to see someone else who knows this. Most players aren't aware of the fact that being good at gaming doesn't mean being good at game design, and finding solutions requires a good game design skillset.

[Edible Coal]

i guess is there to pervent people abusing death to get stats ( and free yummy bones )

[readkey]

13 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Again, I understand the mechanics behind it. I find it is simply pointless and annoying and can make new players feel discouraged to keep playing the game altogether and gives the impression they cannot take some little risks on their own because after dying, they need to be babysitted constantly. That is no fun for anyone involved. I am super cooperative in my games and really helpful to help new players but that is not necessarily how most players are. If that was changed, new players can learn to recover a bit better on their own.

And no.. I don't think recommending rollback is a good strategy for overall learning of the game unless it is situation you cannot really recover from. Also it is not an option always available on public servers

My advise would be “don’t babysit new players”. Let them make their own mistakes and die with them. 

[BB Marioni]

15 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I guess I need to add a disclaimer cuz TLTR I guess. I know how to survive in DST, this is not coming from a new person to the game. It is about my interactions observing new players play the game.

I think dying for newbies is already hard enough to deal with. Veteran players don't consider how step the learning curve for this game is for absolute new players. My partner is totally new to the game  (not me, I have been around for a while) and he was so overwhelmed by so many things that having him deal with also booster shots to punish his learning mistakes is just such a chore and just adds frustration to the learning curve and eventually decreases motivation to keep learning and playing the game altogether. 

I am aware you can customize settings to ignore the health penalty after death but most people won't know what to do to change it and it is not possible to even consider it in most public servers. Maybe it would be a wise idea to simply remove this altogether.

There is world customization for a reason. For newbies, we normally remove health penalty in the world settings until they are more comfortable with the game mechanics. There is also casual mode in one of the pre-set settings which is intended for beginners. It's their fault if they do not choose the casual mode if they know they are beginners, and if they try to join public servers without knowing the game yet. It's like playing a game for the first time on extreme mode, or fighting against diamond rank players as a first timer then complaining that the game is hard. 

[Milordo]

16 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

If you haven't run out of touchstones, it's because you haven't died near them. There's 1 on the surface and 1 in the caves, each usable once (without changing character). I'm not sure these are ever a serious consideration.

IMO, booster shot could require only 2 rot. Wanda and Wortox's revive items could restore max health on living survivors. (Wendy has a wreath effect, but forget-me-lots are impractical.)

That's false. Touchstones are random, between 2 - 4 circa can spawn on the mainland and caves. They also can be used more than one time, they just have a very long cooldown once you use them.

8 rots is already perfect. No on the 2 rot. You know how much rots stockpile during the game? And you can even create/force it.

15 hours ago, Evelo said:

Players are excellent at identifying problems with games, but horrible at coming up with solutions.

Let me tell you. It was a long time that I see such beautiful words. To be framed in the room and in the internet. Here, for you;

[Well-met]

I kinda wish there were ways to cause "black bars" on hunger and sanity too, maybe as new mechanics/threats or whatever.

[JazzyGames]

What always confused me about booster shots was that rot is not necessarily abundant in the early time of the game where it is likely to be used the most. It’s not an expensive recipe eventually but try starting a new world with a few beginner players and keep up with all the rot needed for shots. Something more immediately available on day 1 would make more sense as an ingredient. Maybe seeds or berries? I don’t really know but I’m open to seeing a more accessible early game option.

[Well-met]

13 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

What always confused me about booster shots was that rot is not necessarily abundant in the early time of the game where it is likely to be used the most. It’s not an expensive recipe eventually but try starting a new world with a few beginner players and keep up with all the rot needed for shots. Something more immediately available on day 1 would make more sense as an ingredient. Maybe seeds or berries? I don’t really know but I’m open to seeing a more accessible early game option.

change rot to 1-2 wet goop

Edited June 4, 2025 by Well-met

[JazzyGames]

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

change rot to 1-2 wet goop

Surprisingly less accessible since they added the egg recipes and steamed twigs but yeah that could work.

[FreyaMaluk]

3 hours ago, JazzyGames said:

What always confused me about booster shots was that rot is not necessarily abundant in the early time of the game where it is likely to be used the most. It’s not an expensive recipe eventually but try starting a new world with a few beginner players and keep up with all the rot needed for shots. Something more immediately available on day 1 would make more sense as an ingredient. Maybe seeds or berries? I don’t really know but I’m open to seeing a more accessible early game option.

absolutely agree, it requires resources that are not easily available when you actually need them which is early game for people that have no idea how to deal with things. and for people playing the game absolutely blind, this would be a much better incentive to keep exploring and getting better at the game. I think berries would be a great. Berries have been considered  healing agents since time immemorial. I mean there is also game lore going for honey as healing ingredient which would be also another idea for recipes

16 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

i guess is there to pervent people abusing death to get stats ( and free yummy bones )

absolutely. I quite honestly didn't think of that since it is not the way I would approach the game anyways but it is a great point. considering those factors, I would recommend options like:

• naturally healing it over time little by little as you survive more days, maybe getting back 3hp every day? This way makes the effort of progressing further worth it while not completely negating the effects of it
• adding more recipes with more easily obtainable early game ingredients... honey, berries... all super great suggestions so far OR leaving the recipe as it is but adding alternative materials to replace rot

Edited June 4, 2025 by FreyaMaluk

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, Well-met said:

change rot to 1-2 wet goop

How would that help?? Wet Goop has to be made by accident throwing random things into a Cookpot, and I kinda feel like booster shots need to be knowledge that you learn before you even learn how to craft a Cookpot this would lead to players more frequently “wasting” food ingredients to create goop.

Rot is more easily obtained by newer players by just leaving things laying around on the ground (seeds, Monster Meat, etc..) And by the fact that they won’t have access to bundling wraps, so their foods will spoil into rot more frequently.

Pair that with extremely fast spoiling resources such as Juicy Berry Bush Berries & Lightbulbs & Rot is SUPER EASY to mass produce in Bulk even in early game stages…

But the problem I personally found myself having when it comes to healing others with booster shots, is that maybe not immediately… but “eventually” the Nitre cost will add up, and Nitre as we all know: is vital for the 4th Weather season (Summer)

I think now that newer items are in the game (like healing salves) we should probably get a changed recipe to its craft, such as: Requiring easy to obtain and fast regenerating Seaweed Kelp, over Nitre.

Edited June 5, 2025 by Mike23Ua

[Well-met]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

How would that help?? Wet Goop has to be made by accident throwing random things into a Cookpot, and I kinda feel like booster shots need to be knowledge that you learn before you even learn how to craft a Cookpot this would lead to players more frequently “wasting” food ingredients to create goop.

Rot is more easily obtained by newer players by just leaving things laying around on the ground (seeds, Monster Meat, etc..) And by the fact that they won’t have access to bundling wraps, so their foods will spoil into rot more frequently.

Pair that with extremely fast spoiling resources such as Juicy Berry Bush Berries & Lightbulbs & Rot is SUPER EASY to mass produce in Bulk even in early game stages…

But the problem I personally found myself having when it comes to healing others with booster shots, is that maybe not immediately… but “eventually” the Nitre cost will add up, and Nitre as we all know: is vital for the 4th Weather season (Summer)

I think now that newer items are in the game (like healing salves) we should probably get a changed recipe to its craft, such as: Requiring easy to obtain and fast regenerating Seaweed Kelp, over Nitre.

newcomers die during the first autumn. That's hardly any time to reliably get 8 rot.

Meanwhile wet goop also has the additional bonus of teaching them to make a crockpot and experiment with recipes.

[Edible Coal]

5 hours ago, Well-met said:

I kinda wish there were ways to cause "black bars" on hunger and sanity too, maybe as new mechanics/threats or whatever.

uncomp GOGOGO

[Bumber64]

7 hours ago, Milordo said:

That's false. Touchstones are random, between 2 - 4 circa can spawn on the mainland and caves. They also can be used more than one time, they just have a very long cooldown once you use them.

8 rots is already perfect. No on the 2 rot. You know how much rots stockpile during the game? And you can even create/force it.

Okay, so subject to the whims of RNG (and world settings). I've never seen any cooldown present in the code. (It only tracks the player ID, not when they last used it.) Wiki only mentions character swapping, which could be confused with a cooldown. That requires lunar postern.

By the time you've stockpiled rot, you probably have the better revival options. It's also used as fertilizer, so the opportunity cost of 8 is pretty high. The nitre cost makes sense because it's plentiful on day 1, then gains more renewable sources later.

Edited June 5, 2025 by Bumber64

[Evelo]

8 hours ago, Milordo said:

Let me tell you. It was a long time that I see such beautiful words. To be framed in the room and in the internet. Here, for you;

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not because I still have no idea what the potato cup emote stands for. It's been used as both endearment and an "F U" so I have no idea what this is. Doesn't help I have always struggled with communication in general. Thanks autism. (recently diagnosed if anyone cares.)

[FreyaMaluk]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

How would that help?? Wet Goop has to be made by accident throwing random things into a Cookpot, and I kinda feel like booster shots need to be knowledge that you learn before you even learn how to craft a Cookpot this would lead to players more frequently “wasting” food ingredients to create goop.

Rot is more easily obtained by newer players by just leaving things laying around on the ground (seeds, Monster Meat, etc..) And by the fact that they won’t have access to bundling wraps, so their foods will spoil into rot more frequently.

Pair that with extremely fast spoiling resources such as Juicy Berry Bush Berries & Lightbulbs & Rot is SUPER EASY to mass produce in Bulk even in early game stages…

But the problem I personally found myself having when it comes to healing others with booster shots, is that maybe not immediately… but “eventually” the Nitre cost will add up, and Nitre as we all know: is vital for the 4th Weather season (Summer)

I think now that newer items are in the game (like healing salves) we should probably get a changed recipe to its craft, such as: Requiring easy to obtain and fast regenerating Seaweed Kelp, over Nitre.

An absolute newbie would never venture to the caves on their own and juicy berries are seldom guaranteed. A person that plays blind wouldn't even know that is an option. Opening up some other recipes with other ingredients might be a better way to diversify resources. 

As for nitre on the surface, it kinda comes to the same dynamic. If they open up other recipes for "booster shot-adjacent" recipes, then the demand for nitre will go down too. Win/Win

58 minutes ago, Evelo said:

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not because I still have no idea what the potato cup emote stands for. It's been used as both endearment and an "F U" so I have no idea what this is. Doesn't help I have always struggled with communication in general. Thanks autism. (recently diagnosed if anyone cares.)

It means something super awesome, but considering the toxicity of some players here I wouldn't blame you to be confused. It's one of the rarest trinkets to obtain and gives a lot of gold when you trade it so it means you are or have said something unique and precious.

As a side note, I don't think it is the job of a player bringing something to the devs' attention about the game to provide solutions but often people do when they have had the time to go over different aspects of the issue and weight different angles on it. I ,for instance, didn't realize it would be a counter measure for people basically not dealing with low sanity or hunger, so that changed my perspective on the matter to suggest other things that might be more useful to the discussion.  At the end of the day, it is the devs job to filter and mark priority on changing things as the game moves forward. 

Edited June 5, 2025 by FreyaMaluk

[FluffyBun]

On 6/4/2025 at 6:06 AM, Cheggf said:

I've introduced about 8 friends to this game and not a single one of them has been annoyed by the booster shot mechanic.

Booster shots are one of the worst-balanced features in the game.

It's specifically designed to be quite manageable at 1-2, but become prohibitively expensive by the 3rd. This is because rot is just an absolute pain to get.

Making little spore traps in the caves that rots your food would basically fix that, and also simultaneously teach players to utilize what is harmful for their own benefit.

Edited June 5, 2025 by FluffyBun

[Milordo]

3 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Okay, so subject to the whims of RNG (and world settings). I've never seen any cooldown present in the code. (It only tracks the player ID, not when they last used it.) Wiki only mentions character swapping, which could be confused with a cooldown. That requires lunar postern.

Okay, first and first, the don't starve wiki should not be something that you rely as a base for informations and discussions. It can be full of disinformations and should not be trusted for things as particular as this. You should rely more on the community and people with stats and experience as I always did and I always presume here people play the game before discussing about things they know... My giant experience on the game is telling you that 1) they can spawn more than one and I didn't touch anything on the world settings, if you though that. It's all vanilla 2) You can re-use touch stones, even if you don't change characters. It's a long cooldown. Don't know how it is in the code but everytime after like 1 full year in the game, I can re-use them.

If you don't trust me, you can test it for yourself, but I'm 100% right.

3 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

By the time you've stockpiled rot, you probably have the better revival options. It's also used as fertilizer, so the opportunity cost of 8 is pretty high. The nitre cost makes sense because it's plentiful on day 1, then gains more renewable sources later.

It's always something nice to have and use telltale hearts and again they do not get nerfed or removed in the run due to others revival options, thanks to how Klei balance them (thankfully). If you don't have the range of experience in the game to play with 1 another person, 2 people, 3 people, 4 people and 5 people, I assure you telltale hearts are still being used, by all range of skill, in all the run due to resource managaments and various situations. 

Then as a fertilizer, what are we talking about precisely? Fertilizing berries and grass? Or reap what you sow plants? Because doing it in reap what you sow plants is just a "noobs mistake" let's say it this way. You should never do it. On berries and grass alike, okay it depends. Since we're talking early game this very depends on multiple situations. World generation, where you place your base, what you or the team has at the moment, ecc..... because you can too fertilize with rotten eggs, manure, bucket of poops and guano. So I'll call 50/50 on this.

8 rots is not high.

[Mike23Ua]

I mean I’m honestly not sure what game you all have been playing.. and no I’m not trying to be mean with this comment, I am legitimately baffled at how my gameplay experiences with DST differ from yours.

And quite Ironically: I’ve actually found that over the years (and content updates) that Klei has made RoT more Abundant and plentiful prior to those updates.

An example would be the Reap What You Sow Garden Rework… in the old days prior to this Garden Rework in order to build crops it was extremely expensive and you need one garden per crop.

NOW you can plant many crops into a single tile foundation and just let them grow.. neglect to tend to them.. reap the benefits of free rot.

And because Klei has yet to add a mechanic like “Rot Washes away when it rains” you can literally just let it build up all over everywhere.

It’s the Nitre you’ll run out of quicker.

[Milordo]

2 hours ago, Evelo said:

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not because I still have no idea what the potato cup emote stands for. It's been used as both endearment and an "F U" so I have no idea what this is. Doesn't help I have always struggled with communication in general. Thanks autism. (recently diagnosed if anyone cares.)

Whaaattt???? The potato cup emote stands for "F U"??????? I thought it was used like a very very special trophy and emote that you give only to few people, by knowing the backstory of the potato cup. Noooooooo I didn't meant that 

Freya explain it also well.

[AliceShiki]

10 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Okay, first and first, the don't starve wiki should not be something that you rely as a base for informations and discussions. It can be full of disinformations and should not be trusted for things as particular as this. You should rely more on the community and people with stats and experience

Uhn... No? That's the opposite of what you should be doing. You should be relying on the wiki first and foremost because it's way more trustworthy than any player's personal experience.

Yes, there can be errors in the wiki, but that's why anyone can edit the wiki, so you can fix any mistakes you see. If you find something wrong, you should go and fix it yourself instead of saying that the wiki "can be full of misinformation"

[Milordo]

9 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

Uhn... No? That's the opposite of what you should be doing. You should be relying on the wiki first and foremost because it's way more trustworthy than any player's personal experience.

Yes, there can be errors in the wiki, but that's why anyone can edit the wiki, so you can fix any mistakes you see. If you find something wrong, you should go and fix it yourself instead of saying that the wiki "can be full of misinformation"

I don't know how to fix a wiki and I don't have the time nor the will to do that. Also seems to me a lost cause if then someone else come to edit what I wrote before.

I never trust first the wiki. In my all experience since the start of Don't Starve, the community here as always been more reliable for me for stats and informations, the complete opposite when I read a whole page in the wiki for 1 hour, to only discover after that it was all fake or old. A lot of guides and interesting topics have also been created here on the forum, that goes far more in depth than the wiki.

I use the wiki only for fast basic informations, like the tentacle spike damage.

Edited June 5, 2025 by Milordo

[FreyaMaluk]

48 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I mean I’m honestly not sure what game you all have been playing.. and no I’m not trying to be mean with this comment, I am legitimately baffled at how my gameplay experiences with DST differ from yours.

And quite Ironically: I’ve actually found that over the years (and content updates) that Klei has made RoT more Abundant and plentiful prior to those updates.

An example would be the Reap What You Sow Garden Rework… in the old days prior to this Garden Rework in order to build crops it was extremely expensive and you need one garden per crop.

NOW you can plant many crops into a single tile foundation and just let them grow.. neglect to tend to them.. reap the benefits of free rot.

And because Klei has yet to add a mechanic like “Rot Washes away when it rains” you can literally just let it build up all over everywhere.

It’s the Nitre you’ll run out of quicker.

The discussion is not quite that rot is hard to get as an absolute specially not for experiences players BUT that it is hard to get for new players since it is a mechanic that is not aparent nor even explained if you play blind. That it would be best to make this feature a bit more intuitive and easier to access to newbies WITHOUT the babysitting hand of others. It is about giving newbies a bit more autonomy to recover on their own from the natural learning curve that is the game itself. Making more items available to them with resources that they can find on their own in the overworld from a newbie perspective.