Hot take: Wanda would be better designed, more fun and more interesting if the Alarming clock was removed (+Wanda mini rework)

[hyoton123]

13 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Wilson with a hambat, 2 marble suits and 4 football helmets I can comfortably kill dragonfly everytime without needing to use a single healing item when using wall cheese.

Okay but you could do this on wanda right? You start young and hold F and you can even reset age afterwards?

 

EDIT: to be clear, i’m not saying this is bad or somehow abusive. I quibble with calling her a glass cannon. Rewarding low health play is not the same as a glass cannon.

[Gashzer]

32 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Okay but you could do this on wanda right? You start young and hold F and you can even reset age afterwards?

Exactly! But you arnt playing Wanda as a glass cannon at that point and you aren't getting her full benefit.

The fun bit is choosing to take the risk and go old-timer mode for the speedy kill especially if you are using football helmets to kill a boss like dfly instead of using night armour.

Wanda is the worst character in the game every single second she doesnt have her alarming clock. All she brings is her passive healing. Wilsons alchemy tree and torch tree are better.

 

[AliceShiki]

1 hour ago, Wawchik said:

Can't you just kill lavae before they even attack as Wanda tho? 

You can do that with every character if you have Ice Staves, btw.

[Mike23Ua]

45 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Okay but you could do this on wanda right? You start young and hold F and you can even reset age afterwards?

 

EDIT: to be clear, i’m not saying this is bad or somehow abusive. I quibble with calling her a glass cannon. Rewarding low health play is not the same as a glass cannon.

The fact that Wanda can have a “safe-zone” at all makes her not a Glass Canon.

And Wanda has a colossally HUGE Safe-Zone, not only does she have her young and mid-age forms to play like any other character, but she also gets free infinite healing on a cooldown timer.

Wandas Health Bar (or in this case lack thereof rather) allows her to basically have free and infinite team reviving.

A before her skill tree (haven’t tested the new Wendy skill stuff yet) a Wendy player will “eventually” end up dangerously low on health if she had to continuously revive a bunch of noobs with Telltale hearts, she would eventually reach a point where her own health was damaged to the point that she could not.

But WANDA not only gets to spam free revives on a Cooldown timer clock, but she can also craft the Telltale hearts without suffering the same health losses.

Is it broken and OP?? No, but it does make a character who’s meant to be a glass canon playstyle, feel significantly less so. 

[Bumber64]

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

A before her skill tree (haven’t tested the new Wendy skill stuff yet) a Wendy player will “eventually” end up dangerously low on health if she had to continuously revive a bunch of noobs with Telltale hearts, she would eventually reach a point where her own health was damaged to the point that she could not.

The health damage is like a cooldown. Since Abi's killing the spiders for you, and you can consume excess glands.

Wortox is the better reviver now, though. Just souls, no health cost, no max health penalty on the revivee.

[hyoton123]

57 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Wanda is the worse character in the game every single second she doesnt have her alarming clock. All she brings is her passive healing. Wilsons alchemy tree and torch tree are better.

 

Well okay but reusable healing, teleports after winter, and the shadow item benefits arent nothing. Like I get that her healing has limitations, but the situations where it’s a problem are mostly avoidable (persistent damage) or self inflicted (maxing out shadow weapon damage). 

I guess my question is really “how good is wanda” and my impression hasnt really changed, she can take on a lot of reward for risk in combat, and she gets a lot of tools for managing that risk. Beyond that she plays DST fairly. 

 

In any event I simply dont think that her tools lend themselves to being called a glass cannon. Choosing to play at low health for benefits, when base form has no drawbacks except for age, is only the illusion of a real decision. It’s kind of the opposite of wolfgang where mighty is almost strictly better than wimpy- wanda is about being rewarded in different ways for how you choose to play her. Which is fine, but I think it’s important to identify what her design is, because i think the alarming clock heavily limits the design space for high risk play. High damage and range with the drawback being slow attack speed is not really limiting. I think it’s less about glass cannon play and more about player agency in selecting that risk (versus how maxwell actually is a glass cannon in maximum HP and is appropriately rewarded for blowing up his brain as well)

[Bumber64]

14 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

(versus how maxwell actually is a glass cannon in maximum HP and is appropriately rewarded for blowing up his brain as well)

Except he doesn't have to engage in combat at all and can sit back on a tanky beefalo, being his dapper self. Shadow prison is even more risk free than alarming clock.

Waltuh, same issue.

[WilsonHiggs]

8 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Have you ever played Wanda against Dragonfly and without using walls? Clearly you've never done that fight based on your comment.

??? I did and is one of the very few bosses or enemies that can hit you. She has a easier time against the leaves because of the range and damage

Guy, guy! Alarming clock makes sense on Wanda because a weak boss can hit you!!1!1!1!

8 hours ago, Wawchik said:

Can't you just kill lavae before they even attack as Wanda tho? 

Yes, is easier than even as Wolfgang but apparently, since they struggle in such simple task, everyone also does so the character is perfect

[cropo]

I just think Wanda is pretty boring as a character with her alarming clock. I don't mind there eventually being an endgame weapon that trumps all others, but there needs to be a journey to get to that point. While Wanda does have one, it's a very natural and shortlived journey into the ruins.

I know people speedrun rifts and all that stuff but I personally don't do rifts for up to 3 years and just take my time doing a lot of other stuff, so by the time I get Brightshade sword I have already played for a very long time. I don't mind having the Brightshade sword as the mostly penultimate weapon because of how long it took me to get there. With Wanda that point is reached much, much quicker, and will be even quicker for people who rush ruins as soon as possible.

She also doesn't interact with a lot of the games mechanics, like healing foods and stuff. I tend to take a lot of damage when I play, so I think she definitely is "Glass cannon" enough to be a glass cannon and her obfuscated HP just confuses me which makes me tend to not use her, as well as her healing not being stackable.

Why even play if you're going to disregard nearly half of the games mechanics, why even try to get any good loot? An open world sandbox survival game and she's playing a single-player adventure with a linear goal and kit with fast travel. She's a really boring character imo.

[WilsonHiggs]

25 minutes ago, cropo said:

Why even play if you're going to disregard nearly half of the games mechanics, why even try to get any good loot? An open world sandbox survival game and she's playing a single-player adventure with a linear goal and kit with fast travel. She's a really boring character imo.

Agree. I got bored of only needing NF and honey while fights were so easy.

No interaction with content and no thrill while fighting, a failure of interesting character 

[Guille6785]

What if the alarming clock was kept as is but she had potentially higher damage from other weapons (like dark swords and thule clubs) when super close to death, like 5 hp away from dying or something? Or what if not wearing any armor could boost the damage of those weapons (while the alarming clock has its role as the safe option with consistent damage)? that way the people who like wanda as is can keep playing her the same way and nothing changes for them, while people like me who find her to a snoozefest can actually engage with real glass cannon mechanics (and without needing to start every world by instantly rushing tier 2 magic)

[FillerText]

16 hours ago, CrimsonStrider said:

I don't see what the problem is of limiting yourself to 1 or 2 watches, log suits and football helmets, and aiming to stay old (give yourself some leeway to be slightly under 65) 

Antlion will 2 hit you under those circumstances.

Up the ante and don't use the alarming clock.

 

I don't see why game balance should be on the hands of the player. Does it even solve the complaints of others regarding Wanda if she still would be much more powerful than a portion of other characters as which you wouldn't have said restrictions?

at some point you are just playing your own game woven from some elements that you do like from a source that you generally dislike.

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

What if the alarming clock was kept as is but she had potentially higher damage from other weapons (like dark swords and thule clubs) when super close to death, like 5 hp away from dying or something? Or what if not wearing any armor could boost the damage of those weapons (while the alarming clock has its role as the safe option with consistent damage)? that way the people who like wanda as is can keep playing her the same way and nothing changes for them, while people like me who find her to a snoozefest can actually engage with real glass cannon mechanics (and without needing to start every world by instantly rushing tier 2 magic)

People at your skill level are about 0.000000000001% of the total DST playerbase. Barely anyone are "people like you."

Nothing in DST should ever be balanced to keep "speedrunner levels of skill" people happy.

Wanda is a glass cannon. Just because you know exactly how to get around it doesn't mean Wandy isn't a glass cannon. It means she it working as intended for skillful players. 

[WilsonHiggs]

5 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

What if the alarming clock was kept as is but she had potentially higher damage from other weapons (like dark swords and thule clubs) when super close to death, like 5 hp away from dying or something? Or what if not wearing any armor could boost the damage of those weapons (while the alarming clock has its role as the safe option with consistent damage)? that way the people who like wanda as is can keep playing her the same way and nothing changes for them, while people like me who find her to a snoozefest can actually engage with real glass cannon mechanics (and without needing to start every world by instantly rushing tier 2 magic)

I prefer, instead of taking such circles, if Wanda simply gets her HP mechanic and amount ajusted

[Cruvimaster]

Wanda: the curious case of one of the least used characters, but one of the most debated on the forum!

[WilsonHiggs]

46 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Wanda: the curious case of one of the least used characters, but one of the most debated on the forum!

Wanda: the curious case of being a dlc character

[Cruvimaster]

Wortox is a DLC character... And Wickerbottom...

After Wanda's skill tree, we'll talk again about whether it's because she can be obtained for 2,700 Spools or because she's an uninteresting character for the community in general.

And all of Klei's development of reworks and skill trees have been aimed at improving the characters.

Wanda may have a terrible skill tree, but she'll still be better than she is now.

It would be strange if someone created a character to sell, but that no one wants to buy. I believe in the intelligence of the developers.

[Jakepeng99]

56 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

And Wickerbottom...

No.

[Spunney]

13 hours ago, Gashzer said:

People at your skill level are about 0.000000000001% of the total DST playerbase. Barely anyone are "people like you."

Nothing in DST should ever be balanced to keep "speedrunner levels of skill" people happy.

Wanda is a glass cannon. Just because you know exactly how to get around it doesn't mean Wandy isn't a glass cannon. It means she it working as intended for skillful players. 

I played Webber exclusively until I picked up Wanda for an all-bosses playthrough, most of the bosses being those I had never fought before. I got through almost everything on the first try and I found the character ridiculously easy, and didn't feel affected by her supposed "glass cannon" status at all outside of maybe Nightmare Werepig and Dragonfly. The fact is simply that you just run out of armor way before you ever run out of health, regardless of character. That combined with her having the easiest access to healing in the game (it's literally free, after you make the inexpensive watches) and absurd damage, range and no downsides to wearing dreadstone armor made her very easy for a newb like me. I never had to craft healing food and I never had to craft armor after I got two dreadstone helmets from a single fight in the early game, and all of the fights themselves were very easy compared to other characters; I still can struggle to kill Fuelweaver as non-combat characters without cheese. I don't understand what special skills you think people need to have to make Wanda an extremely powerful character

14 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

What if the alarming clock was kept as is but she had potentially higher damage from other weapons (like dark swords and thule clubs) when super close to death, like 5 hp away from dying or something? Or what if not wearing any armor could boost the damage of those weapons (while the alarming clock has its role as the safe option with consistent damage)? that way the people who like wanda as is can keep playing her the same way and nothing changes for them, while people like me who find her to a snoozefest can actually engage with real glass cannon mechanics (and without needing to start every world by instantly rushing tier 2 magic)

I really really like this idea, but I think I'd flip it; I think the alarming clock should be the item to benefit from not wearing armor instead of generic dark weapons, since the alarming clock is her exclusive weapon and since she's supposed to embody a glass cannon, I think it would make sense.

I think it'd also be nice to give her a downside where more and potentially stronger shadow creatures spawn on her compared to normal characters, since it would help counteract her weapon utterly demolishing them as they currently exist, and would also fit in very well lore-wise since she's shown to be especially pursued by them. Or maybe make one spawn every 3 uses of a healing watch, or something. There'd be lots of ways to implement it, but I definitely think she should have some unique challenge when it comes to dealing with shadow/sanity creatures

[00petar00]

18 hours ago, cropo said:

I know people speedrun rifts and all that stuff but I personally don't do rifts for up to 3 years and just take my time doing a lot of other stuff, so by the time I get Brightshade sword I have already played for a very long time. I don't mind having the Brightshade sword as the mostly penultimate weapon because of how long it took me to get there. With Wanda that point is reached much, much quicker, and will be even quicker for people who rush ruins as soon as possible.

This is kind of an issue that you made yourself because you take that long to kill CC while anyone good at the game can do it much faster and you are also mistaking alarming clock as being amazing in late game when it is at that point that it becomes much weaker because of the lack of planar damage.

18 hours ago, cropo said:

She also doesn't interact with a lot of the games mechanics, like healing foods and stuff. I tend to take a lot of damage when I play, so I think she definitely is "Glass cannon" enough to be a glass cannon and her obfuscated HP just confuses me which makes me tend to not use her, as well as her healing not being stackable.

Her healing with ageless watches is a downside, losing health over time and managing inventory stacked with watches isn't interesting.

18 hours ago, cropo said:

Why even play if you're going to disregard nearly half of the games mechanics, why even try to get any good loot? An open world sandbox survival game and she's playing a single-player adventure with a linear goal and kit with fast travel. She's a really boring character imo.

The point is that you have your favorite characters and other people have theirs, If every character was a carbon copy with some minor differences there would be no point in having so many characters. The reason so many characters exist is to fill role with different playstyles.

17 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

What if the alarming clock was kept as is but she had potentially higher damage from other weapons (like dark swords and thule clubs) when super close to death, like 5 hp away from dying or something? Or what if not wearing any armor could boost the damage of those weapons (while the alarming clock has its role as the safe option with consistent damage)? that way the people who like wanda as is can keep playing her the same way and nothing changes for them, while people like me who find her to a snoozefest can actually engage with real glass cannon mechanics (and without needing to start every world by instantly rushing tier 2 magic)

This is a very good idea and it would encourage players to stay at lower HP without affecting the current experience.I have practiced DF without getting hit by using backstep watch so it would give me motivation to get better and it could make her more interesting to play.

 

[Jakepeng99]

18 hours ago, Spunney said:

I played Webber exclusively until I picked up Wanda for an all-bosses playthrough, most of the bosses being those I had never fought before. I got through almost everything on the first try and I found the character ridiculously easy, and didn't feel affected by her supposed "glass cannon" status at all outside of maybe Nightmare Werepig and Dragonfly. The fact is simply that you just run out of armor way before you ever run out of health, regardless of character. That combined with her having the easiest access to healing in the game (it's literally free, after you make the inexpensive watches) and absurd damage, range and no downsides to wearing dreadstone armor made her very easy for a newb like me. I never had to craft healing food and I never had to craft armor after I got two dreadstone helmets from a single fight in the early game, and all of the fights themselves were very easy compared to other characters; I still can struggle to kill Fuelweaver as non-combat characters without cheese. I don't understand what special skills you think people need to have to make Wanda an extremely powerful character

I really really like this idea, but I think I'd flip it; I think the alarming clock should be the item to benefit from not wearing armor instead of generic dark weapons, since the alarming clock is her exclusive weapon and since she's supposed to embody a glass cannon, I think it would make sense.

I think it'd also be nice to give her a downside where more and potentially stronger shadow creatures spawn on her compared to normal characters, since it would help counteract her weapon utterly demolishing them as they currently exist, and would also fit in very well lore-wise since she's shown to be especially pursued by them. Or maybe make one spawn every 3 uses of a healing watch, or something. There'd be lots of ways to implement it, but I definitely think she should have some unique challenge when it comes to dealing with shadow/sanity creatures

I kidnda agree

[hyoton123]

On 4/18/2025 at 5:13 PM, Bumber64 said:

Except he doesn't have to engage in combat at all and can sit back on a tanky beefalo, being his dapper self. Shadow prison is even more risk free than alarming clock.

Waltuh, same issue.

Yeah, max and walter have their own issues for sure.

[WilsonHiggs]

On 4/19/2025 at 2:13 AM, Bumber64 said:

Except he doesn't have to engage in combat at all and can sit back on a tanky beefalo, being his dapper self. Shadow prison is even more risk free than alarming clock.

Waltuh, same issue.

For that I think that duelists should cost, along with max sanity, max health so the more you have out the less hp you have

[Bumber64]

3 hours ago, WilsonHiggs said:

For that I think that duelists should cost, along with max sanity, max health so the more you have out the less hp you have

But it doesn't even matter on a beefalo, which takes the full hit until you're bucked off.

[Laguna]

On 4/17/2025 at 11:42 AM, Guille6785 said:

they've called her a glass cannon long after she was already added to the game

I might have worded that part poorly. I didn’t mean to say Klei never intended Wanda to be a glass cannon — they definitely referred to her that way even after her release. What I meant is that there's a difference between Klei’s take on the glass cannon concept and what some players were expecting from it. Wanda is a glass cannon — she deals high damage, but she’s fragile in a very specific way: she dies of old age, doesn’t heal through normal means, relies on the clocks, and constantly has to manage her timeline. That makes her extremely vulnerable in scenarios where other characters could recover easily.