Hot take: Wanda would be better designed, more fun and more interesting if the Alarming clock was removed (+Wanda mini rework)

[Wawchik]

2 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Wanda's 142.8 damage has always been lower than Wolfgang's 136 damage.

You shouldn't be fooled by this type of number, since it is the damage per second (dps) that is the real damage of a weapon.

There is already a gap between Wanda and Wolfgang in terms of the "cannon", since Wolfgang has undergone two general improvements (rework + skill tree).

And Wolfgang can still use armor with 95% protection without penalty while having 200 health.

While you ask for a real damage of less than 102 points for elderly Wanda, Maxwell must be doing 300 or more damage with his 6 followers on top of a buffed beefalo after defeating AFW.

And they still want to call Wanda a cannon, when several characters do much more damage than her.

This forum is a joke.

Could we actually focus on Wanda and not compare her to literally the strongest characters in terms of combat (Wolfgang - early, maxwell - mid - end). It doesn't matter if Wanda deals less damage than Wolfgang (which she doesn't really because of range unless you just tank everything as Wolf). I don't have any issues with Wanda, but the topic is about her not being a true glass cannon character and the Alarming clock being a bad designed weapon for her, not about her being op or whatever 

[00petar00]

 

9 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

If its "not just numbers" you forgot the extra range of the whip, leading to more dps oppertunities and safety.

8 hours ago, Wawchik said:

Could we actually focus on Wanda and not compare her to literally the strongest characters in terms of combat (Wolfgang - early, maxwell - mid - end). It doesn't matter if Wanda deals less damage than Wolfgang (which she doesn't really because of range unless you just tank everything as Wolf). I don't have any issues with Wanda, but the topic is about her not being a true glass cannon character and the Alarming clock being a bad designed weapon for her, not about her being op or whatever 

  So? This was already discussed in this thread. It looks to me like some people want klei to follow through when you could make an argument that she already is a glass cannon compared to other characters because she has to have lowest amount of HP for the damage bonus among the cast.

I disagree that just because she was called glass cannon in a youtube video or forum post that she must be that,  If players wanted her to be "true" glass cannon it would've happened during her beta or release, I don't think a character should be retroactively nerfed years after because players have already adapted to her and don't want to see this obviously.

Wanda was so good at release but a lot of characters have caught up to her in power or even surpassed her with damage like Wolfgang (Skill tree) and Maxwell refresh but even ignoring damage she isn't tier above the cast like she was at that time.

I think Wanda fits a specific playstyle and balance choices should be made based on the players that enjoy weak or powerful characters but it seems to me that everyone enjoys powerful characters and you are a minority here as we can see from skill trees and refreshes.

Alarming clock offers unique experience and it is a good weapon to have in the game, why would I want to use the same weapon as every character? How is Walter's slingshot any better? What about gloomerang? Brightshade staff? Other rift gear? cheap repairable items that are really powerful.

There is only one suggestion in this thread that caught my attention, Guille said that Wanda could be changed so that the less HP she has the more damage she does with alarming clock but only increase from the current maximum damage. This would make her more of a glass cannon without negatively changing the experience for current players and it would allow for others that want to go without armor and with like 1-9 HP for more damage.

 

[WilsonHiggs]

15 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Wanda's 142.8 damage has always been lower than Wolfgang's 136 damage.

You shouldn't be fooled by this type of number, since it is the damage per second (dps) that is the real damage of a weapon.

There is already a gap between Wanda and Wolfgang in terms of the "cannon", since Wolfgang has undergone two general improvements (rework + skill tree).

And Wolfgang can still use armor with 95% protection without penalty while having 200 health.

While you ask for a real damage of less than 102 points for elderly Wanda, Maxwell must be doing 300 or more damage with his 6 followers on top of a buffed beefalo after defeating AFW.

And they still want to call Wanda a cannon, when several characters do much more damage than her.

This forum is a joke.

The joke is writing a comment like yours when nobody tagged Wolfgang as  glass canon character so it has nothing to do with the topic

[Theukon-dos]

16 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Wanda's 142.8 damage has always been lower than Wolfgang's 136 damage.

You shouldn't be fooled by this type of number, since it is the damage per second (dps) that is the real damage of a weapon.

There is already a gap between Wanda and Wolfgang in terms of the "cannon", since Wolfgang has undergone two general improvements (rework + skill tree).

And Wolfgang can still use armor with 95% protection without penalty while having 200 health.

While you ask for a real damage of less than 102 points for elderly Wanda, Maxwell must be doing 300 or more damage with his 6 followers on top of a buffed beefalo after defeating AFW.

And they still want to call Wanda a cannon, when several characters do much more damage than her.

This forum is a joke.

Wanda only does about 11% less DPS than Wolfgang using a Dark Sword. That may not sound impressive, except it still comfortably puts her above 90% of characters in terms of DPS. Wanda not having the highest DPS in the game doesn't make her not a cannon, it just means Wolfgang and Maxwell are bigger cannons. 

 

Same with her and armor. Yes, Wolfgang and Max can also wear 95% damage reduction with little or no penalties. But that just kind of stops mattering when you're taking 20x less damage and your "most vulnerable" is still over 600 effective HP. Especially when you consider that Wanda has infinitely recharging healing watches as part of her base kit.

 

There's also something to be said about how you're giving Wanda lip after years of power creep sense her release. She's absolutely not the juggernaut she once was. But that's not a sign of her falling off, it's just a testament to how poorly thought out Klei's updates have been.

[WilsonHiggs]

6 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

 

  So? This was already discussed in this thread. It looks to me like some people want klei to follow through when you could make an argument that she already is a glass cannon compared to other characters because she has to have lowest amount of HP for the damage bonus among the cast.

I disagree that just because she was called glass cannon in a youtube video or forum post that she must be that,  If players wanted her to be "true" glass cannon it would've happened during her beta or release, I don't think a character should be retroactively nerfed years after because players have already adapted to her and don't want to see this obviously.

Wanda was so good at release but a lot of characters have caught up to her in power or even surpassed her with damage like Wolfgang (Skill tree) and Maxwell refresh but even ignoring damage she isn't tier above the cast like she was at that time.

I think Wanda fits a specific playstyle and balance choices should be made based on the players that enjoy weak or powerful characters but it seems to me that everyone enjoys powerful characters and you are a minority here as we can see from skill trees and refreshes.

Alarming clock offers unique experience and it is a good weapon to have in the game, why would I want to use the same weapon as every character? How is Walter's slingshot any better? What about gloomerang? Brightshade staff? Other rift gear? cheap repairable items that are really powerful.

There is only one suggestion in this thread that caught my attention, Guille said that Wanda could be changed so that the less HP she has the more damage she does with alarming clock but only increase from the current maximum damage. This would make her more of a glass cannon without negatively changing the experience for current players and it would allow for others that want to go without armor and with like 1-9 HP for more damage.

 

Because there are no games with content for the minority of players that enjoy hard content. Difficulty mods don't exists, different characters with different difficulty don't exists or different challenge mode don't exists, even there are no hard games.

Just because you are a casual doesn't mean all the content should be suited for you. There are people who enjoy playing videogames and pressing keys in the right moment instead of being afk knowing they will win no matter what

[00petar00]

39 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Wanda only does about 11% less DPS than Wolfgang using a Dark Sword. That may not sound impressive, except it still comfortably puts her above 90% of characters in terms of DPS. Wanda not having the highest DPS in the game doesn't make her not a cannon, it just means Wolfgang and Maxwell are bigger cannons. 

Wanda was called a glass cannon but she still is one compared to the rest of the cast. Either way I don't think a character needs to conform to some language klei used to advertise her on release.

39 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Same with her and armor. Yes, Wolfgang and Max can also wear 95% damage reduction with little or no penalties. But that just kind of stops mattering when you're taking 20x less damage and your "most vulnerable" is still over 600 effective HP. Especially when you consider that Wanda has infinitely recharging healing watches as part of her base kit.

There are mobs and bosses in the game with high damage and planar damage so its not like she has that much HP really. EHP only matters If you can survive the first hit and run away to heal and also it is limited by ageless watches and how much armor you bring. If you want to stay in old age at all times during the fight your HP can get as low as 15.

39 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

There's also something to be said about how you're giving Wanda lip after years of power creep sense her release. She's absolutely not the juggernaut she once was. But that's not a sign of her falling off, it's just a testament to how poorly thought out Klei's updates have been.

So because players have enjoyed Wanda for the power and utility she brought being nearly unmatched at her release for some reason she should be nerfed after buffing every other character with refresh and skill tree? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Klei's updates weren't poorly thought out but are obviously going to be decided by the data they can pull, I don't agree that we should've gotten skill trees but now that they are here and every single one has buffed a character it shows that players want character buffs.

12 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Because there are no games with content for the minority of players that enjoy hard content. Difficulty mods don't exists, different characters with different difficulty don't exists or different challenge mode don't exists, even there are no hard games.

Just because you are a casual doesn't mean all the content should be suited for you. There are people who enjoy playing videogames and pressing keys in the right moment instead of being afk knowing they will win no matter what

There are mods and you just accepted that it is a minority of players so why should the game be balanced around you?

I don't believe I am a casual player after having thousands upon thousands of hours played and often play on worlds for long time. Maybe you can try to accept that there is a specific group of players that enjoy the game more when there is a choice in whether to interact with specific content and don't like survival mechanics or chores that are forced upon them?

There's difference between survival mechaincs or chores and casual content and we can go deeper into that discussion because I can argue that bosses aren't casual even though they are optional.

For example I'd prefer more optional content like new bosses, biomes on surface and multiple cave updates because a lot of the biomes there are pointless so they can be replaced with ones that fit the theme and have have benefits to visiting them, more ocean islands, new mobs and items.

[hyoton123]

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't believe I am a casual player after having thousands upon thousands of hours played and often play on worlds for long time. Maybe you can try to accept that there is a specific group of players that enjoy the game more when there is a choice in whether to interact with specific content and don't like survival mechanics or chores that are forced upon them?

There's difference between survival mechaincs or chores and casual content and we can go deeper into that discussion because I can argue that bosses aren't casual even though they are optional.

For example I'd prefer more optional content like new bosses, biomes on surface and multiple cave updates because a lot of the biomes there are pointless so they can be replaced with ones that fit the theme and have have benefits to visiting them, more ocean islands, new mobs and items.

these are three paragraphs i specifically agree with. chores bad. (not sure if you mean minigames bad too, but minigame chores bad.)

[Guille6785]

11 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

If players wanted her to be "true" glass cannon it would've happened during her beta

lol what, the beta was exclusive to content creators

[Jakepeng99]

9 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Nerf every character? Maybe if it works.

[GrapeVruit]

46 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Nerf every character? Maybe if it works.

Man, just imagine that. "Well, we spent over 6 years making the cast as powerful as they can be, but everyone's too strong, so we're nerfing all of them back to how they were."

[00petar00]

18 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

these are three paragraphs i specifically agree with. chores bad. (not sure if you mean minigames bad too, but minigame chores bad.)

All repeatable chores get boring over time. This includes chores that you only have to do once per world. 

16 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

lol what, the beta was exclusive to content creators

So? I took a break and started playing when Wanda was out. I don't think this matters or makes any of my points less valid, what was stopping a massive amount of players from complaining that Wanda wasn't a glass cannon but even If they did do it on the forums this is still a small minority of players usually with a lot of experience. Most players don't have any discussion about game they play on the internet so when forums are split 50/50 or even higher for changes that make game more difficult or add more "chores" it still doesn't mean that klei should listen to these opinions without considering the other part which is a silent majority of the playerbase that is going to lean into casual direction.

11 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Nerf every character? Maybe if it works.

I was speaking on Wanda, If she was the strongest and now a lot of characters have caught up to her why shouldn't she be buffed?

Now on your point, it would decrease the playerbase so developers are making right decision when it comes to money and popularity. There are games that are niche and very difficult but they exist usually they are not very popular, either way they won't ever be mainstream and they don't have to but you can't expect DST to steer into this direction because it hasn't for quite a few years and the playerbase has been curated so there are so many more players that aren't into that. If klei developers went that route on DST release I doubt that a lot of the players that are currently playing would be here.

 

[WilsonHiggs]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

All repeatable chores get boring over time. This includes chores that you only have to do once per world. 

So? I took a break and started playing when Wanda was out. I don't think this matters or makes any of my points less valid, what was stopping a massive amount of players from complaining that Wanda wasn't a glass cannon but even If they did do it on the forums this is still a small minority of players usually with a lot of experience. Most players don't have any discussion about game they play on the internet so when forums are split 50/50 or even higher for changes that make game more difficult or add more "chores" it still doesn't mean that klei should listen to these opinions without considering the other part which is a silent majority of the playerbase that is going to lean into casual direction.

I was speaking on Wanda, If she was the strongest and now a lot of characters have caught up to her why shouldn't she be buffed?

Now on your point, it would decrease the playerbase so developers are making right decision when it comes to money and popularity. There are games that are niche and very difficult but they exist usually they are not very popular, either way they won't ever be mainstream and they don't have to but you can't expect DST to steer into this direction because it hasn't for quite a few years and the playerbase has been curated so there are so many more players that aren't into that. If klei developers went that route on DST release I doubt that a lot of the players that are currently playing would be here.

 

people were already discussing how safe and dumb is to have a glass canon with range weapon in dst when Wanda was released 

[Theukon-dos]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

 

I was speaking on Wanda, If she was the strongest and now a lot of characters have caught up to her why shouldn't she be buffed?

Because that's power creep. Like. The textbook definition of power creep, just straight up. And power creep is bad. And it's bad because 1. It means old content becomes irrelevant, like what's happened to Wanda. And 2, because it's a slippery slope that's hard to stop. Skill trees have already started getting power crept compared to the earliest ones. What happens when people start complaining because Wigfrid "only" got an entire new set of weapons compared to whatever the hell blokes like WX and Maxwell get.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Now on your point, it would decrease the playerbase so developers are making right decision when it comes to money and popularity. There are games that are niche and very difficult but they exist usually they are not very popular, either way they won't ever be mainstream and they don't have to but you can't expect DST to steer into this direction because it hasn't for quite a few years and the playerbase has been curated so there are so many more players that aren't into that. If klei developers went that route on DST release I doubt that a lot of the players that are currently playing would be here.

 

First of all, Hard games aren't automatically "niche". Just look at Dark Souls and how it's resulted in an entire sub-genera of games called "souls-likes". Heck, Elden Ring just announced that it's sold 30 million copies sense launch.

Second, while I don't doubt the shift in direction contributed to the increasing playerbase. I doubt it's the only factor. After all, they've also massively increased the game's marketing budget over the last few years.

 

And third, why in the nine circles of beefalo dung hell would I care if the shift in the direction was the smart "financial choice"? You know what happens when companies make the smart financial choice? They get that money by making things worse for the userbase. And wouldn't you know it, that's exactly what happened.

 

I recognize that it's to late to go back now. Doing that would just end up with all the players who where attracted to the game in recent years watching them loose the game they fell in love with just like I had to do. But don't try to justify that by saying it was the right choice because it makes Klei look better on the stock market.

[IAmAFurrz]

On 4/29/2025 at 5:12 AM, Jakepeng99 said:

If its "not just numbers" you forgot the extra range of the whip, leading to more dps oppertunities and safety.

also makes a lot of day to day fights super easy too but thats besides the point

[CrimsonStrider]

I'm being very constructive. 

I'm pointing out you already have all the tools to play a very fragile character. A character that, currently, to see it's full damage, requires you to be on the brink of death.

Completely different from a Wolfgang or even Walter challenge. They have access to all their damage with the comfort of full health, and even a minor amount of armor would stretch that health out quite a bit. The same isn't true for an old Wanda using logsuits or football helmets. Especially if you're limiting yourself to one or two ageless watches, whereas how would that work with Walter or Wolfgang? 

You're given all the things you need to make this challenge yourself. In a game where people are constantly whining about Klei taking away options and forcing you to do things in specific ways, it's bit of a joke that so many are keen on them doing the same to Wanda.

I'm very clearly pointing out the hypocrisy of everyone wanting a glass cannon Wanda. Why aren't you just challenging yourself? Because you don't care about the challenge. If you did you'd be doing it.

When it suits you, you challenge yourself to fighting AFW specific ways, foregoing certain weapons and armor, to prove a point. Or because you find it more challenging. 

But nobody plays a glass cannon Wanda because nobody wants to die to a lag spike near some bees, some hunger or heat/cold related BS, etc. 

People, maybe, want a one hit character so that they can say they've done x with said character and feel like they're special because nobody can get past day 10 with the same character.  But would you regularly play a character that falls apart that quickly?

On console nobody would touch her. Nobody with any form of connection or hardware issues would touch her. Casuals might try her once and that's it. Is Guille going to main someone like that? Probably not. Might be a fun now and then challenge but probably too stressful for regular use.

I pointed out very clearly that's not what you want even though everyone stupidly keeps throwing out the word glass cannon. You want an interesting and tactile character. 

You want something that rewards good control, requires a deeper understanding of the games mechanics, and necessitates really good decision making. Something that adds to how you interact with the game and rewards all of the above when executed well. But at the same time, isn't easily accessible, and requires time.

You don't get all of that on a good scale by making the character literal glass. You get people that will rely on what everyone calls cheese in this game to get through the game, one or two people that can get through without, and then everyone else complaining that Wanda is too hard and a waste of money.

My suggestion is great. Use what you're given and create your own challenge. Tailor it to your need, and once you accomplish it see if that's what you really want.  But the majority of you won't try it because you already inherently know it's gonna suck.

My rework is nice too. Each age range represents a different skill and as you get better you can play at older ages. She would have interesting, unique, and new mechanics to make combat more rewarding to offset being fragile   but not complete glass, and her strength boost would come from playing with her well as opposed to just being there. I think that's what most of you would actually appreciate. 

You want to be rewarded for good play. Not punished for random **** and poor programming. 

Also, the dude that keeps saying he doesn't even do rift content and doesn't have Wanda but is making suggests, please stop posting stupid stuff. Get Wanda, turn rifts on, and see if you have enough watches to deal with even two rift sharks.

I also want to comment on the absurdity of all the healing watch comments. I've played the last 100 days on my Walter world without any crockpot healing dishes. I've probably only used butterflywings, glands, and a handful of jellybeans because it was convenient at the time. Healed from some random jerky I've made and lichen in a pinch. Healing is so free in this game. Imagine if I was actually making pierogi, muffins, sanity dishes etc. 

Setting up 3 ageless watches takes times, and often a trip to the ruins AND/or Archives early game if I don't have luck with graves. If I join a world late it's often harder to get an ageless watch unless I steal some reds from a chest. Which I usually don't do, I personally stay away from other people's crap. It's not hard to setup, but once setup it's done. It's convenience. I no longer need to go hunt a butterfly or pick up a gland.  I don't need to spend 5 minutes at my crockpots. That's it. It just makes the game slightly less tedious. It's not the differences between and easy and hard run. It means less cooking. It does mean no burst healing, so I can't tank stuff like I do with other characters. Also, I can't heal through hunger, temp, or fire. Against rift content food is almost always preferably, and on console the being able to heal before you die is moot because you can't get to your watch fast enough.

The "infinite" telltales is also lol. Pierogi exist. How many do you need to make? Stop making stupid arguments.

[00petar00]

17 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Because that's power creep. Like. The textbook definition of power creep, just straight up. And power creep is bad. And it's bad because 1. It means old content becomes irrelevant, like what's happened to Wanda. And 2, because it's a slippery slope that's hard to stop. Skill trees have already started getting power crept compared to the earliest ones. What happens when people start complaining because Wigfrid "only" got an entire new set of weapons compared to whatever the hell blokes like WX and Maxwell get.

I kind of disagree with this, I do think that it is good if power creep doesn't go too far but just because developers were trying to keep damage between strongest weapons equal for a while it doesn't mean that early content was hard after you obtain the strongest items. We have had glass cutters in the game for a while and it completely bypasses the difficulty of obtaining nightmare fuel and living logs for dark swords but even that isn't a problem anymore with lunar grotto giving easy access to living logs. So even when damage is the same it is much easier to obtain these weapons.

Rift gear and Walter make light work of anything with range (brightshade staff, gloomerang and slingshot). Other rift gear is also very good and surpasses dark sword/glass cutter while being very cheap to maintain.

17 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

First of all, Hard games aren't automatically "niche". Just look at Dark Souls and how it's resulted in an entire sub-genera of games called "souls-likes". Heck, Elden Ring just announced that it's sold 30 million copies sense launch.

Elden Ring went mainstream because it caters to casual players with mages and summoners while still being one of the best designed games. I would agree with you that hard games can be amazing but they still usually have much less players.

You can compare specific Elden Ring builds to DST characters and we can have strong and weak ones, that's what I always believed was best for the game so everyone gets a choice but it seems that I was wrong since a lot more players would complain when their character is one of the weaker ones, that's why skill trees have always been strong buffs even when skill tree receives less attention.

17 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

And third, why in the nine circles of beefalo dung hell would I care if the shift in the direction was the smart "financial choice"? You know what happens when companies make the smart financial choice? They get that money by making things worse for the userbase. And wouldn't you know it, that's exactly what happened.

It can depend on the studio but I think skill trees were a bad choice because of the time investment for something that only players that want to play that character will interact with and to everyone else skill tree update doesn't add much. Another important factor is that updates have been less frequent and had less content, I was under the impression that while they would be less frequent we would get more content so that it would equal to be the same amount of content as it was 2-3 years ago.

17 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

I recognize that it's to late to go back now. Doing that would just end up with all the players who where attracted to the game in recent years watching them loose the game they fell in love with just like I had to do. But don't try to justify that by saying it was the right choice because it makes Klei look better on the stock market.

At the end of the day they exist to make money and its never going to be wrong for them to focus on that If they want to be able to pay their employees.

[Wawchik]

1 hour ago, CrimsonStrider said:

I'm being very constructive. 

I'm pointing out you already have all the tools to play a very fragile character. A character that, currently, to see it's full damage, requires you to be on the brink of death.

Completely different from a Wolfgang or even Walter challenge. They have access to all their damage with the comfort of full health, and even a minor amount of armor would stretch that health out quite a bit. The same isn't true for an old Wanda using logsuits or football helmets. Especially if you're limiting yourself to one or two ageless watches, whereas how would that work with Walter or Wolfgang? 

You're given all the things you need to make this challenge yourself. In a game where people are constantly whining about Klei taking away options and forcing you to do things in specific ways, it's bit of a joke that so many are keen on them doing the same to Wanda.

I'm very clearly pointing out the hypocrisy of everyone wanting a glass cannon Wanda. Why aren't you just challenging yourself? Because you don't care about the challenge. If you did you'd be doing it.

When it suits you, you challenge yourself to fighting AFW specific ways, foregoing certain weapons and armor, to prove a point. Or because you find it more challenging. 

But nobody plays a glass cannon Wanda because nobody wants to die to a lag spike near some bees, some hunger or heat/cold related BS, etc. 

People, maybe, want a one hit character so that they can say they've done x with said character and feel like they're special because nobody can get past day 10 with the same character.  But would you regularly play a character that falls apart that quickly?

On console nobody would touch her. Nobody with any form of connection or hardware issues would touch her. Casuals might try her once and that's it. Is Guille going to main someone like that? Probably not. Might be a fun now and then challenge but probably too stressful for regular use.

I pointed out very clearly that's not what you want even though everyone stupidly keeps throwing out the word glass cannon. You want an interesting and tactile character. 

You want something that rewards good control, requires a deeper understanding of the games mechanics, and necessitates really good decision making. Something that adds to how you interact with the game and rewards all of the above when executed well. But at the same time, isn't easily accessible, and requires time.

You don't get all of that on a good scale by making the character literal glass. You get people that will rely on what everyone calls cheese in this game to get through the game, one or two people that can get through without, and then everyone else complaining that Wanda is too hard and a waste of money.

My suggestion is great. Use what you're given and create your own challenge. Tailor it to your need, and once you accomplish it see if that's what you really want.  But the majority of you won't try it because you already inherently know it's gonna suck.

My rework is nice too. Each age range represents a different skill and as you get better you can play at older ages. She would have interesting, unique, and new mechanics to make combat more rewarding to offset being fragile   but not complete glass, and her strength boost would come from playing with her well as opposed to just being there. I think that's what most of you would actually appreciate. 

You want to be rewarded for good play. Not punished for random **** and poor programming. 

Also, the dude that keeps saying he doesn't even do rift content and doesn't have Wanda but is making suggests, please stop posting stupid stuff. Get Wanda, turn rifts on, and see if you have enough watches to deal with even two rift sharks.

I also want to comment on the absurdity of all the healing watch comments. I've played the last 100 days on my Walter world without any crockpot healing dishes. I've probably only used butterflywings, glands, and a handful of jellybeans because it was convenient at the time. Healed from some random jerky I've made and lichen in a pinch. Healing is so free in this game. Imagine if I was actually making pierogi, muffins, sanity dishes etc. 

Setting up 3 ageless watches takes times, and often a trip to the ruins AND/or Archives early game if I don't have luck with graves. If I join a world late it's often harder to get an ageless watch unless I steal some reds from a chest. Which I usually don't do, I personally stay away from other people's crap. It's not hard to setup, but once setup it's done. It's convenience. I no longer need to go hunt a butterfly or pick up a gland.  I don't need to spend 5 minutes at my crockpots. That's it. It just makes the game slightly less tedious. It's not the differences between and easy and hard run. It means less cooking. It does mean no burst healing, so I can't tank stuff like I do with other characters. Also, I can't heal through hunger, temp, or fire. Against rift content food is almost always preferably, and on console the being able to heal before you die is moot because you can't get to your watch fast enough.

The "infinite" telltales is also lol. Pierogi exist. How many do you need to make? Stop making stupid arguments.

How do you not understand that you can't just tell everyone "just don't use armour if you want it to be challenging", the character IS SUPPOSED to be a glass cannon, yet her PERK let's her take advantage of the most protective armour pre-rifts, it was intended for Wanda players to use that. Also, saying Wanda is weak when rifts start is true, but dumb, because Wanda still hasn't gotten a skill tree, so obviously she doesn't do planar damage and dies in 2 hits. 

Getting ageless watches is a one-time investment and there are characters like wickerbottom and Wurt that are even less desirable to pick if you're not the one hosting the server or not playing long term. 

[GrapeVruit]

20 minutes ago, Wawchik said:

How do you not understand that you can't just tell everyone "just don't use armour if you want it to be challenging", the character IS SUPPOSED to be a glass cannon, yet her PERK let's her take advantage of the most protective armour pre-rifts, it was intended for Wanda players to use that. Also, saying Wanda is weak when rifts start is true, but dumb, because Wanda still hasn't gotten a skill tree, so obviously she doesn't do planar damage and dies in 2 hits. 

Getting ageless watches is a one-time investment and there are characters like wickerbottom and Wurt that are even less desirable to pick if you're not the one hosting the server or not playing long term. 

I feel like at the this point the term "glass cannon" Klei used for Wanda most likely applied to the average player instead of most people on the forums. Like, yeah, of course Wanda's not going to be a glass cannon, you've been playing long enough to know how to offset her weaknesses.

Also, if people don't believe her to fit the archetype, then why are players bringing night armor with them, or using extra ageless watches? If she's able to output so much damage at range, why bother playing it safe? Is it because deep down, they know without that safety net, Wanda is really fragile at old age and needs as much help as she can get? 

[Wawchik]

42 minutes ago, GrapeVruit said:

Also, if people don't believe her to fit the archetype, then why are players bringing night armor with them, or using extra ageless watches? If she's able to output so much damage at range, why bother playing it safe? Is it because deep down, they know without that safety net, Wanda is really fragile at old age and needs as much help as she can get? 

Because they have the option to do that and it's very easy to do so, you're encouraged to use night armour because no sanity drain and it's tier 2 magic, you get thulicite fragments and gems in ruins, the place that you have to go to if you want to progress the game. Personally I don't mind if she's not a glass cannon, I don't care about thematics or whatever else people come up with to fit their vision of the character, but I see why people want her to be a glass cannon

[Theukon-dos]

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I kind of disagree with this, I do think that it is good if power creep doesn't go too far but just because developers were trying to keep damage between strongest weapons equal for a while it doesn't mean that early content was hard after you obtain the strongest items. We have had glass cutters in the game for a while and it completely bypasses the difficulty of obtaining nightmare fuel and living logs for dark swords but even that isn't a problem anymore with lunar grotto giving easy access to living logs. So even when damage is the same it is much easier to obtain these weapons.

Damage isn't the same. Damage has gone *up*. Every character is getting some sort of damage boost, defensive boost, or whatever have you. I'm not even sure what you're teing to argue here.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Rift gear and Walter make light work of anything with range (brightshade staff, gloomerang and slingshot). Other rift gear is also very good and surpasses dark sword/glass cutter while being very cheap to maintain.

So power creep.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Elden Ring went mainstream because it caters to casual players with mages and summoners while still being one of the best designed games. I would agree with you that hard games can be amazing but they still usually have much less players.

Elden Ring also made all it's bosses fight like a linebacker overdosing on caffeine. And the souls games in general have always had ways to get around the difficulty spikes, like mages and player summons. The only real difference is that Elden Ring lets you go somewhere else if you start getting walled.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

You can compare specific Elden Ring builds to DST characters and we can have strong and weak ones, that's what I always believed was best for the game so everyone gets a choice but it seems that I was wrong since a lot more players would complain when their character is one of the weaker ones, that's why skill trees have always been strong buffs even when skill tree receives less attention.

Not really how that works but alright.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

It can depend on the studio but I think skill trees were a bad choice because of the time investment for something that only players that want to play that character will interact with and to everyone else skill tree update doesn't add much. Another important factor is that updates have been less frequent and had less content, I was under the impression that while they would be less frequent we would get more content so that it would equal to be the same amount of content as it was 2-3 years ago.

At the end of the day they exist to make money and its never going to be wrong for them to focus on that If they want to be able to pay their employees.

Unless Klei was doing really bad before DST's launch, then I doubt that they needed the casualization to keep the lights on. And again, I do not care about the bottom line or how their stocks are doing. I just want them to make games.

[WilsonHiggs]

3 hours ago, GrapeVruit said:

I feel like at the this point the term "glass cannon" Klei used for Wanda most likely applied to the average player instead of most people on the forums. Like, yeah, of course Wanda's not going to be a glass cannon, you've been playing long enough to know how to offset her weaknesses.

Also, if people don't believe her to fit the archetype, then why are players bringing night armor with them, or using extra ageless watches? If she's able to output so much damage at range, why bother playing it safe? Is it because deep down, they know without that safety net, Wanda is really fragile at old age and needs as much help as she can get? 

Klei should add a stick that deals 10.000 damage because people who don't like it have the option of not using it... Great point, congrats

[GrapeVruit]

2 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Klei should add a stick that deals 10.000 damage because people who don't like it have the option of not using it... Great point, congrats

Well, what else do you want me to say? At that point, you might as well handicap yourself if you really want a challenge or to feel like a "true" glass cannon. You shouldn't need to wait for Klei to make the character harder for yourself when you're at a level where pretty much nothing is ever going to challenge you.

[Jakepeng99]

6 hours ago, CrimsonStrider said:

I'm being very constructive. 

I'm pointing out you already have all the tools to play a very fragile character. A character that, currently, to see it's full damage, requires you to be on the brink of death.

Completely different from a Wolfgang or even Walter challenge. They have access to all their damage with the comfort of full health, and even a minor amount of armor would stretch that health out quite a bit. The same isn't true for an old Wanda using logsuits or football helmets. Especially if you're limiting yourself to one or two ageless watches, whereas how would that work with Walter or Wolfgang? 

You're given all the things you need to make this challenge yourself. In a game where people are constantly whining about Klei taking away options and forcing you to do things in specific ways, it's bit of a joke that so many are keen on them doing the same to Wanda.

I'm very clearly pointing out the hypocrisy of everyone wanting a glass cannon Wanda. Why aren't you just challenging yourself? Because you don't care about the challenge. If you did you'd be doing it.

When it suits you, you challenge yourself to fighting AFW specific ways, foregoing certain weapons and armor, to prove a point. Or because you find it more challenging. 

But nobody plays a glass cannon Wanda because nobody wants to die to a lag spike near some bees, some hunger or heat/cold related BS, etc. 

People, maybe, want a one hit character so that they can say they've done x with said character and feel like they're special because nobody can get past day 10 with the same character.  But would you regularly play a character that falls apart that quickly?

On console nobody would touch her. Nobody with any form of connection or hardware issues would touch her. Casuals might try her once and that's it. Is Guille going to main someone like that? Probably not. Might be a fun now and then challenge but probably too stressful for regular use.

I pointed out very clearly that's not what you want even though everyone stupidly keeps throwing out the word glass cannon. You want an interesting and tactile character. 

You want something that rewards good control, requires a deeper understanding of the games mechanics, and necessitates really good decision making. Something that adds to how you interact with the game and rewards all of the above when executed well. But at the same time, isn't easily accessible, and requires time.

You don't get all of that on a good scale by making the character literal glass. You get people that will rely on what everyone calls cheese in this game to get through the game, one or two people that can get through without, and then everyone else complaining that Wanda is too hard and a waste of money.

My suggestion is great. Use what you're given and create your own challenge. Tailor it to your need, and once you accomplish it see if that's what you really want.  But the majority of you won't try it because you already inherently know it's gonna suck.

My rework is nice too. Each age range represents a different skill and as you get better you can play at older ages. She would have interesting, unique, and new mechanics to make combat more rewarding to offset being fragile   but not complete glass, and her strength boost would come from playing with her well as opposed to just being there. I think that's what most of you would actually appreciate. 

You want to be rewarded for good play. Not punished for random **** and poor programming. 

Also, the dude that keeps saying he doesn't even do rift content and doesn't have Wanda but is making suggests, please stop posting stupid stuff. Get Wanda, turn rifts on, and see if you have enough watches to deal with even two rift sharks.

I also want to comment on the absurdity of all the healing watch comments. I've played the last 100 days on my Walter world without any crockpot healing dishes. I've probably only used butterflywings, glands, and a handful of jellybeans because it was convenient at the time. Healed from some random jerky I've made and lichen in a pinch. Healing is so free in this game. Imagine if I was actually making pierogi, muffins, sanity dishes etc. 

Setting up 3 ageless watches takes times, and often a trip to the ruins AND/or Archives early game if I don't have luck with graves. If I join a world late it's often harder to get an ageless watch unless I steal some reds from a chest. Which I usually don't do, I personally stay away from other people's crap. It's not hard to setup, but once setup it's done. It's convenience. I no longer need to go hunt a butterfly or pick up a gland.  I don't need to spend 5 minutes at my crockpots. That's it. It just makes the game slightly less tedious. It's not the differences between and easy and hard run. It means less cooking. It does mean no burst healing, so I can't tank stuff like I do with other characters. Also, I can't heal through hunger, temp, or fire. Against rift content food is almost always preferably, and on console the being able to heal before you die is moot because you can't get to your watch fast enough.

The "infinite" telltales is also lol. Pierogi exist. How many do you need to make? Stop making stupid arguments.

I read the first sentence only and i can predict this is this "dont use it" and "play the game worse" kind of stuff.

[WilsonHiggs]

24 minutes ago, GrapeVruit said:

Well, what else do you want me to say? At that point, you might as well handicap yourself if you really want a challenge or to feel like a "true" glass cannon. You shouldn't need to wait for Klei to make the character harder for yourself when you're at a level where pretty much nothing is ever going to challenge you.

Or I can give feedback based on my taste and experience with content instead. I already know I can  avoid using something, I dont need someone, who doesn't have real arguments to go against what they don't like, to tell me to avoid experience content. For the example I avoid using Wanda because is boring for solo and ruins the experience in multiplayer

[Gashzer]

26 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I read the first sentence only and i can predict this is this "dont use it" and "play the game worse" kind of stuff.

Old Wanda dies in 3 hits to dfly if wearing football helmets only. Wilson dies in 10 hits if at full hp and wearing football helmets only.

Old Wanda is more than 3 times as fragile compared to Wilson and Old Wanda is 4 times more fragile if both wilson and old wanda are wearing marble armour.......

This entire thread isn't using or considering mathematic evidence.

While Wanda gives you the freedom to play her more passively as young Wanda, for you to get the max worth out of her you need to play as old. This is a fact.

Wanda is a glass cannon, just because you can play passively if you want doesn't make this any less true.

Being 4 times less tanky while using marble suits/night armour is absolutely crazy.

Go fight dragonfly as Wilson using marble suits, you literally don't need to even look anywhere near your health meter even if the fight takes longer than if you did it with old Wanda.

You know what's transparent from this thread? Forum users don't use 95% armours on regular hp characters hence this weird false feeling of old Wanda having same level of survivability as every other character when she definitely doesn't.