[Poll] On Crab King

[GetNerfedOn]

Spoiler

apart from this i got blocked thrice by a puffin in thirteen attempts and that is all you need to know about what i feel about this fight

anyways, vote and discuss!

 

[kehun]

New crabking is pretty fun and easy challenge but the thing i hate about new fight is probably ammount of the ice on water... sometimes you just can't place the boat so you are going to drown just like in the picture above

[mkemal23]

One problem I have with the new fight is the fact that it's so damn buggy.

Platforms breaking causes lag. The ice items causes fps drop. And everything has weird hitboxes, especially the claws.

Other than that, I'd say new Crabking is a huge improvement.

[ADM]

However controversial they come by I sincerely hope Klei never substantially rework a boss ever again. They've got it all wrong it's actually impressive.

[SilverSpoon]

Anyway, please do something about "Falling into the ocean = Game Over Yeah!" Can you leave the status penalty as it is, but make it so that you drift to a nearby boat to some extent?

If you can do that, the frustration of the battle with the Crab King will be largely reduced, and it will be able to turn it into a fun boss fight rather than just an annoying obstacle in the moon questline.

[Cheggf]

I'm voting "No" on wanting them to continue to change the boss. With what they've shown happens when they change bosses I never want them to do it ever again. The old fight could have used some improvements, sure, but they didn't do that. They took the one single true boat fight, the only fight in the entire game where you're actually interacting with the boat mechanics for the fight, and they just removed it from the game completely. Normally when they add new bosses to the game that's it, they just add new bosses to the game and everyone's happy, or, at worst, they don't like the new boss so they just ignore it. But here when they added a new boss, they removed an old boss. An old boss that was way more unique conceptually, was way more interesting to fight, and was way better overall. With just a few tweaks to the fight it would have been one of the best in the game, but that can't happen now that it's gone. They replaced it with an extremely generic fight that nobody even engages with since every time I see anyone talk about it they just say they use grass rafts so they don't have to engage with the tower or repair mechanics, and they use pan flutes so they don't have to engage with the minion mechanics. Instead of an interesting boating challenge it is now yet another land-based hold F on him until he dies fight.

If they hadn't replaced an old boss with this new one, the new one would be alright. Just like the old Crab King fight it could use a few tweaks, but I wouldn't hate it, and I would think its addition makes the game better. But because they deleted a boss, it doesn't even matter that it was a much better boss just that they deleted a boss at all, it sucks. That update actively made the game worse. 

[Dingle]

I wish he didn't drop what feels like 30 shell bells. That or he dropped a chest with his important stuff in it + your gems.

I hate having to try to grab a gem, and instead I pick up one of the multitude of shell bells I will never, ever use.

Oh, it would also be nice if cannon towers couldn't spawn under your boat.

[Ridley]

I think the new version is better, but man it sucks going into this fight blind. This is also probably the second worst boss to recover from a loss against.

[aidancode]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

They took the one single true boat fight, the only fight in the entire game where you're actually interacting with the boat mechanics for the fight, and they just removed it from the game completely. An old boss that was way more unique conceptually, was way more interesting to fight, and was way better overall.

Strongly disagree with this. The new fight is an actual boat fight. The old one was a platform fight. IMO the biggest problem with both is that the punishment for failure is too big. This was never fixed. But calling the old crab king boss more of a boat fight because you have to right click your platform with wood sometimes and saying the current fight, which effectively requires rowing the boat around to dodge attacks, is less of that is kinda wild to me. Was it the right move to effectively remove the old boss? I think it's a better idea than you'd give it credit for, since Crab King is a required progression boss. I would have been okay if they turned old Crab King into a Misery Toadstool type boss, I think. Keeping it in the game for perhaps some extra drop or something like that but not locking progression behind it.

[Cheggf]

3 minutes ago, aidancode said:

Strongly disagree with this. The new fight is an actual boat fight. The old one was a platform fight. IMO the biggest problem with both is that the punishment for failure is too big. This was never fixed. But calling the old crab king boss more of a boat fight because you have to right click your platform with wood sometimes and saying the current fight, which effectively requires rowing the boat around to dodge attacks, is less of that is kinda wild to me. Was it the right move to effectively remove the old boss? I think it's a better idea than you'd give it credit for, since Crab King is a required progression boss. I would have been okay if they turned old Crab King into a Misery Toadstool type boss, I think. Keeping it in the game for perhaps some extra drop or something like that but not locking progression behind it.

The old one literally required rowing your boat to dodge attacks. What attacks are dodged with rowing in the new one? The cannon towers, which fire off incessantly so trying to dodge them is a fool's errand and you either ignore them completely or destroy them? The claws, which follow you endlessly and trying to dodge them is a fool's errand? The ice floe, which can not be dodged and turns the fight into a land fight? The crab knights, which are fighting you on the ice floe?

[DegenerateFurry]

So far, it looks like the results are similar to the results in my crab king/boat choice poll.

[aidancode]

21 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

The old one literally required rowing your boat to dodge attacks. What attacks are dodged with rowing in the new one? The cannon towers, which fire off incessantly so trying to dodge them is a fool's errand and you either ignore them completely or destroy them? The claws, which follow you endlessly and trying to dodge them is a fool's errand? The ice floe, which can not be dodged and turns the fight into a land fight? The crab knights, which are fighting you on the ice floe?

Assuming you're asking in good faith which you aren't, the claws and cannon towers both encourage you to circle around the boss, breaking towers and clumping the claws. IDK if there's some other "meta" strategy but the fight clearly presents that as the way you're supposed to tackle the boss, especially in multiplayer.

[Radicaljoe]

I prefer new ck 100x more than old one. New ck still has some flaws yes, but I cannot grasp what anyone found redeemable about old ck. old ck was just, textbook definition of awful to fight. 

New ck has 1 major issue I despise, garbage EVERYWHERE. like the picture up above, if your boat breaks, you're done. There is waaaay to much ice, and other crap in the water that it just disables the ability to place a second boat for safety. Which sure fine, take care of your boat, I get it it's a part of the fight. It's still an issue even after the fight is over and you've won. Now, there's tons of shells and other stuff in the water making so much clutter. I like fighting new ck, but having to clean up the water area everytime is such a boringly long chore. Also, wish he had a marker after death because I have lost his spawn point a couple times, started marking it with an ocuvigil a little bit away from him.

I like that the gem combinations do change the fight now instead of spam 1 color. Too many of one gem can make the fight easier for some characters, and harder for others. lot of purple probably bad for most characters, but for minion character's its great, let your minions distract the crablets while you take on the big guy. The only one I don't like is orange, because it makes his healing incancelable, which I reported as a bug because it looks so unnatural it felt like a bug, he just sits there and shakes his hand around like he's getting electrocuted.

Also, new ck gives me cool bumpers, AND 100% treasure chance AND minimum 2 treasure bottles. old ck gave me....nothing actually, nothing at all. 

[DegenerateFurry]

34 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

I like that the gem combinations do change the fight now instead of spam 1 color. Too many of one gem can make the fight easier for some characters, and harder for others. lot of purple probably bad for most characters, but for minion character's its great, let your minions distract the crablets while you take on the big guy.

Yeah, Oops! All Purples! is also a phenomenal strat for moon shroom farmer Wormwood. The spore clouds just make all the crabs go to sleep, it's great.

[ADM]

55 minutes ago, aidancode said:

Assuming you're asking in good faith which you aren't, the claws and cannon towers both encourage you to circle around the boss, breaking towers and clumping the claws. IDK if there's some other "meta" strategy but the fight clearly presents that as the way you're supposed to tackle the boss, especially in multiplayer.

No because they can be completely ignored. They are totally unimportant both the claws, cannons and guards, have no aim, act slow, and can't reach you for most of the time because of Crab King's own collisions and phase cycles. His kit doesn't encourage at all to move anywhere but to headbutt him on one point unbothered by anything else, try and see for yourself because really you've been doing this wrong. Moving used to be important and meticulous before because the boss wasn't AFKing screwing all his allies like he is now, rowing momentum was granting a real reach advantage over claws and that was the most thrill I had of any boss battle by playing around that. Now moving anywhere but back toward the boss only makes it more perilous and loose us more time from the main objective.

 

4 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

but I cannot grasp what anyone found redeemable about old ck

If you're actually interested in knowing what from the view of a really passionate pre-rework Crab King player :

Still very relevant, I still to this day use the Legacy Crab King while I work on my perfected rework of him and I keep having a massive blast, only every now and then without mods do I have to fight the new CK and my experience hasn't change, so much was lost.

[Cheggf]

3 hours ago, ADM said:

Legacy Crab King

Wtf! Dope mod! Thanks for the link. 

[aidancode]

4 hours ago, ADM said:

try and see for yourself because really you've been doing this wrong.

It sounds like your problem is entirely based on "this boss' mechanics are exploitable". Which old crab king's were as well. And a hefty chunk of all the bosses in DST are. If there's a bug with the behavior of the fight then you should probably report that. I don't know what said problem is. But you're gonna lose me with the "you've been doing this wrong" because when people start saying that it's generally a good time to stop listening to their opinion.

[gaymime]

i havent personally fought the reworked cc BUT i have seen others do it and he looks much more fun

[ADM]

3 hours ago, aidancode said:

It sounds like your problem is entirely based on "this boss' mechanics are exploitable". Which old crab king's were as well. And a hefty chunk of all the bosses in DST are. If there's a bug with the behavior of the fight then you should probably report that. I don't know what said problem is. But you're gonna lose me with the "you've been doing this wrong" because when people start saying that it's generally a good time to stop listening to their opinion.

The boss mechanics are exploiting themselves  the only way to not tell this is running like a headless chicken and that seems to be your speed with how you described it

Anyway even if it wasn’t the case and his summons were doing stuff right, it wouldn’t be that much better. The moment they introduced any amount of physical damage dealt to player, this boss lost half of his unique flavor.

[nicolas103]

Without a doubt i prefered the old fight.

The new fight is a joke compared to it.

 

With the new crab king you can literally ignore all of the crap around you and just hold attack on the boss until the floor breaks. Nothing will attack you or your boat. No panflute, no freezing, no whatever needed

This is not fun, not challenging, or interesting for a boss.

 

This doesnt even cover the few bugs i've seen so far with this fight from boats being launched or destroyed instantly from clipping in the ice floor, ice boats, or towers. The ice floor pulling you from a distance as it breaks. The ice floor just flat out disappearing.

This is supposed to be a boss, and yet the biggest threat i've had is what i assume to be unintended behavior.

Most gems dont even make a difference, or at least any color i've spammed hasnt made any noticable difference.

In the old fight the gems felt like infinity stones were being socketed in the boss giving me a chance to plan what chaos i wanted.

 

With the old crab king there was a lot more challenge, planning, gem combinations, and methods of fighting.

There was a punishment for ignoring a claw for too long, ignoring your boat, or ignoring the boss, or his attacks.

Whether you dodged by rowing. Froze with ice staffs, ice gembells, used bees, brought weather pains, used flingos. There was at least some amount of preparation that went into the fight.

Now i just bring only weapons, and watch the Crabs bust down to the music around me.

 

I understand the old fight was not perfect either from Gem Imbalance, potentially being perma frozen, and overall being very punishing, but i'd gladly choose the old over the new because it at least brought a challenge, and made me have to learn how to overcome these challenges, and even allow for further challenge for myself by bringing less, and learning not to rely on certain strats, gem combinations, or equipment.

It was a lot of fun, and I enjoyed my experiences with the old Crab King.

 

I voted "yes" to updating him more because the new one is in an absurdly sad state.

 

P.S I swear the bosses tiny ice boats cause monkey raids or something, or im just really unlucky. Ive had quite a few of my fights spawn about 3-8 boats of monkeys at once during the boss, my normal raids have only ever had 1-2 monkey boats.

The music even overlaps really badly with the boss, lol.

[Hungry French]

It's an extremely unbalanced fight for solo. Attacking something other than King Crab is deliberately creating problems for yourself.

[WilsonHiggs]

I prefer the new gem system and the rewards but they removed the geysers atack and the need of rowing to kite those... Now is more like a land fight, a non sense and wasted potential

[hyoton123]

New CK is less of a boss battle and more of a sideshow. I’m fine with that with two exceptions: the water fills up with ice and junk drops, which is an okay soft nerf on grass boats, but is *extremely* frustrating; and cannon towers shouldnt spawn below boats, which is *extremely* extremely frustrating. Thats the two reasons i go into crab king with dread, and not joy.

 

I get why people liked the original. I didnt, but it was more of a boss battle than a weird punching bag with lots of steps, which it is now. Maneuvering around the claws and ramming towers is peak ocean gameplay though.

 

EDIT; i would say new CK is less bad than old CK, but also less good. 

[Popian]

7 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

the water fills up with ice and junk drops, which is an okay soft nerf on grass boats, but is *extremely* frustrating

This is a use for the Gnarwail Horn (or trident) while not very convenient it is something you can come across along the way.

[SilverSpoon]

I think the opinion that the previous Crab King was superior because it was "Naval battle" is not wrong, but I dare to deny it. I don't really want to call simply rowing a boat to avoid geysers or claws "Naval battle". If it's "Naval battle", I think there should be more emphasis on boat operation.

In that point, I think the Uncompromising Mod's "Effective ramming with a boat", "Bumper to protect claws", and "Weakness against cannons" are good examples. Other things I can think of:

• Imposing Claw, Ice platforms, and Ice barriers can be destroyed by ramming a boat, and can be countered by ramming with momentum from a sail.
• Imposing Claw will again pinch boats, but will prioritize damage to bumpers, and Rudder will shake off 1~ claws that are pinning the boat dew one operation.
• Cannon Tower will knock boats a few times before crashing through them, dropping Anchors will tower damage and reset knock count, and Pinchin' Winch will capture the Crab Guard building the tower, canceling the construction.
• Fire Pump will target Cannon Towers, pouring water on them to cause them to malfunction for a certain period of time.
• Deck Illuminator will blind the crabs, making Cannon Towers less shooting rate when aiming against the boat be built.
• Allows Nautopilot Beacons to be put into the Crab King. Boats with Nautopilot will move towards the Crab King with no control.
• Using Hostile Flare while fighting the Crab King will 100% bring Monkey Pirates. Additionally, Monkey Pirates will be hostile against the Crab King Crew, and Accursed Trinkets will turn not only the player but also Crab Guards and Crabs on tower into monkeys. Giving 1000 Accursed Trinkets to the Crab King will turn him into King Kong and remove him from the game forever.