Obvious choice for next skill trees

[Walrusst]

 

1 hour ago, aidankocherhans said:

What are you referring to?

It might be to the fact that the list of forageables that they made for woby was configured such that all characters are able to make use of it (And contained items woby was hard coded to not touch.) This would make it seem like other characters with compatible themes might touch on the list.

[Swiyss]

8 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

I hope not. Maxwell is one of my mains and I am fully prepared for the most boring filler skill tree, as it absolutely should be. Give him like 4 skills called Dapperness I - Dapperness  IV that just increase his passive sanity gain to singleplayer levels. 6 skills for increasing the radius and active timer on his 2 shadow spells.

Heck, I'd even be okay with removing some stuff he currently has and giving it back to him in the form of skills

That's absolutely ridiculous. Why would you not want creative and fun skills for your most played survivor? The main idea is to have fun.

[Edible Coal]

14 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Just walani, make her skilltree have woodleg abilities. Best of both, we have enough old white men in DST 

actually who? we only have like one which is a grainy transmission

[Cheggf]

5 hours ago, Templar_Warden said:

huh? i think your under utilizing wickerbottoms ability to create grumble bees in fights. makes her much better at combat while also being able to easily farm for a lot of resources. also her spiderweb book can absolutely cheese ancient guardian since his stun duration is increased based on how long he is traveling for a charge. also the rain book is incredibly usefull during the summer, specifically if activated before the antlion fight since rain pauses sandstorms which means you wont get slowed or need the desert goggles for the fight, which means you can freely use your football helmet. also the full moon book is incredibly useful since you can create mooncaller staffs anytime you want and you can use it to farm werepigs anytime you want. just her ability to instantly grow crops and and easily use grumble bees in fights makes her much better and versatile throughout the whole game compared to webber and wx-78.

Grumble Bees are terrible in combat and even worse to use, they're comically slow and extremely easy to outrun. The minor amount of time you save from Ancient Guardian taking slightly longer to become unstunned does not even break even with the time it takes you to gather the resources to make that book, and you're not even making the fight easier. Trying to use the book like that makes the fight harder.

4 hours ago, astareus said:

That's absolutely ridiculous. Why would you not want creative and fun skills for your most played survivor? The main idea is to have fun.

If you think being comically overpowered and ignoring game mechanics is fun why don't you just use mods or something? 

[Swiyss]

Just now, Cheggf said:

If you think being comically overpowered and ignoring game mechanics is fun why don't you just use mods or something? 

In no way I implied that. Things can be fun and not overpowered, you know that?

4 hours ago, astareus said:

I am fully prepared for the most boring filler skill tree

boring is the opposite of fun. I'm not implying a power imbalance here, but a need for a skill tree to be boring just because he's already strong. Klei can simply decide to give him a bunch of regular dark and shadow little things here and there and that's not boring. Imagine I'm farming for crops, and I decide that I want a specific crop that'll need some fertilizer, well, Wurt has a new fertilizer for that. It's not "weak", it's just different and made in their image.

An idea for Maxwell would be to make a new summon that will till the ground for him.

It's like making wormwood immune to bees. They could've also added a feature in which he can pick grass from grass geckos directly, and make them not scared of him, he would get 2 grass instead for example. And that's not boring, that's just balanced based on how much the character already have.

[Cheggf]

12 minutes ago, astareus said:

In no way I implied that. Things can be fun and not overpowered, you know that?

He's already really overpowered even without the skill tree, hence why they're hoping the skill tree doesn't add very much. 

[Swiyss]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

He's already really overpowered even without the skill tree, hence why they're hoping the skill tree doesn't add very much. 

a person who can do 100 tasks at 50% efficiency is overlooked by the person who can do 10 tasks with 95% efficiency.

Wormwood is overpowered if that's the case. Even without his skill tree.

But in my point of view, just because maxwell can do a lot of things better, that doesn't mean he's overpowered. Yeah, he does have more storage, can read wickers books, is the best at mining, chopping and shoveling, can lock bosses in place, can summon duelist to fight for him, has late-game synergy, has a big sanity aura buff etc.. But his downsides are pretty much set, he has a very low hp, has to spend a bunch of fuel to keep his puppets and has to wear specifically shadow gear to maximize his damage, making brightshade gear not as effective on him.

I would actually be a little concerned if they decide to make his skill tree all about removing his downsides instead of revolving around making his upsides more engaging and exciting to participate in. I would really be sad if Klei doesn't add anything that revolves around him using the shadow reaper and maul, and the cowl and robe. As of right now, they gotta make shadow alliance more fun as well, since you're basically not going to use the added buff against lunar entities as much as you would against shadow ones. Klei has to either put more lunar related creatures in early game or make the shadow alliance stronger against lunar creatures instead of being even.

[Cheggf]

2 minutes ago, astareus said:

a person who can do 100 tasks at 50% efficiency is overlooked by the person who can do 10 tasks with 95% efficiency.

Wormwood is overpowered if that's the case. Even without his skill tree.

Maxwell is the single best character at doing literally every single thing in the entire game except for moving (with the exception of moving items, where he is once again the best) and dealing AoE damage (which he is better than almost everyone else at). He is not only the best at everything, but he completely trivializes parts of the game. He does not need to even engage with boss mechanics or try fighting things, his Duelists and prison will do everything for him. He doesn't even need to think about ways to cheese, he just innately has a button to turn fights off.

Wormwood doesn't do much except craft Dark Swords, move slightly faster (not as fast as even a beefalo), and deal the worst AoE damage in the game at the cost of both items and his difficult to recover health. His skill tree adds the ability for the worst AoE damage in the game to be dealt without injuring himself, and gives him an unnoticeable single target damage bonus that's only active if you're using a Brightshade Sword. 

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Maxwell is the single best character at doing literally every single thing in the entire game except for moving (with the exception of moving items, where he is once again the best) and dealing AoE damage (which he is better than almost everyone else at). He is not only the best at everything, but he completely trivializes parts of the game. He does not need to even engage with boss mechanics or try fighting things, his Duelists and prison will do everything for him. He doesn't even need to think about ways to cheese, he just innately has a button to turn fights off.

Wormwood doesn't do much except craft Dark Swords, move slightly faster (not as fast as even a beefalo), and deal the worst AoE damage in the game at the cost of both items and his difficult to recover health. His skill tree adds the ability for the worst AoE damage in the game to be dealt without injuring himself, and gives him an unnoticeable single target damage bonus that's only active if you're using a Brightshade Sword. 

I mean, if you overlook beefalos, wormwood's movespeed is kinda overpowered, and the fact that he also gets free hp and shade from it also makes a huge difference.

Not getting hurt by seaweeds while getting barnacles, days of light around you and a collector + 2 fighters with saladmanders, having basically better jellybeans at a cheaper cost, his own aoe protection reusable with wendy's dps with his bramble traps, not getting hit by lureplants, napsacks at a cheaper cost, free living logs without having to spend days in the early game farming for it making him the best at making thulecite clubs and staves, bee hive protection, collecting cactus and spiky bushes for free, free sanity anywhere by carrying seeds which take 40 days to spoil, easily controllable sanity by digging saplings, weeds won't affect him when planting, can consume red caps and monster meat as if they were carrots and regular meat, can craft basically all resources in the surface, easily farmable mushrooms and not needing to till plants. All of this without even considering that he's got 2 late-game upgrades for the very best dps after planar lol. 

Sure he's not Maxwell, and we can't compare both, but he's also not Wilson. The movespeed, the healing, the shade and the sanity protection from rain WILL spoil you if you play him long enough. He's just a guy who can do a million things great, but he's not overpowered, but the guy who has the best combat and resource gathering suddenly is even if that's his lore identity, and should receive a boring skill tree apparently instead of having a bunch of shadow things here and there as fun little tweaks.

The idea of some character needing to be bad and worse and boring and weaker because he's too strong in one area or another is a corrosive and regressive idea imho.

It's all about perspective. And in the end, the Maxwell player that doesn't speak english in the other side of the world would want something cool going on for him as well. Similar to what Wendy players wanted and couldn't get.

[lowercase skye]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Grumble Bees are terrible in combat and even worse to use, they're comically slow and extremely easy to outrun.

In how many situations is that relevant? Very very few mobs in this game actually try to kite you, and in those few cases you just attack them too and it holds them in place for the grumble bees. I use grumbles for like 90% of my Wickerbottom gameplay and I've never once had any sort of issue like this.

[Cheggf]

14 minutes ago, lowercase skye said:

In how many situations is that relevant? Very very few mobs in this game actually try to kite you, and in those few cases you just attack them too and it holds them in place for the grumble bees. I use grumbles for like 90% of my Wickerbottom gameplay and I've never once had any sort of issue like this.

If you don't want to intentionally kill them all after every fight to resummon them. It's annoying. 

[flamboyant wolf]

5 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

If you don't want to intentionally kill them all after every fight to resummon them. It's annoying. 

Matter of taste, I prefer to have grumbles summoned almost at all times. My favourite aspect of Wickerbottom.

[Cheggf]

10 minutes ago, flamboyant wolf said:

Matter of taste, I prefer to have grumbles summoned almost at all times. My favourite aspect of Wickerbottom.

Yeah, and then you need to unequip all your speed boosts and constantly stop moving because they're slow as Hell and can't keep up.

[flamboyant wolf]

23 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Yeah, and then you need to unequip all your speed boosts and constantly stop moving because they're slow as Hell and can't keep up.

Yeah, that is a bit of an issue, esp considering I tend to use a beefalo, but oh well. Usually doesn't actually matter much to me, I am not the one to rush from one task to another. 

[Mysterious box]

17 hours ago, astareus said:

That's absolutely ridiculous. Why would you not want creative and fun skills for your most played survivor? The main idea is to have fun.

Because his refresh being so powerful is what sparked the 2nd round of refreshes and doing so would likely spark round 3.

Spoiler

See you in 2030 when we're beginning the 4th round of refreshes due to Maxwell he truly is the final boss.

 

19 hours ago, Templar_Warden said:

ya but surely wicker is more usefull than webber regardless of if shes a "switch character". Her grumble books literally allow her to be something akin to a much weaker version of webber having up to 8 bees that deal 15 damage each with an easier setup and shes incredible at farming in all aspect and she works better with other character. Her kit is far better and more versatile than webber and wx-78.

It's debatable really Wickerbottom is a jack of all trades but Webber is a master of his trade. Wickerbottom can mass produce food but Webber can already farm and eat the most abundant food source (spiders) which also covers his sanity and hp needs while having a superior combat force. Wickerbottom is definitely more supportive than Webber but with how versatile characters are on average these days and how much more abundant food is she doesn't have as many areas to shine anymore.

[lowercase skye]

11 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Yeah, and then you need to unequip all your speed boosts and constantly stop moving because they're slow as Hell and can't keep up.

They're followers, if you manage to outrun them they'll teleport to make sure they can't get left behind, so there's no reason to constantly stop and make sure they're keeping up. The only time you have to stop moving is directly before a fight that you want them to help with, in which case you can just reorganize your inventory for 5 seconds or something and they'll have caught up.

[Clopsy627]

On 3/22/2025 at 5:14 PM, MidasHow said:

Wes and Wonkey skill trees on april fools' day

I really believed wes was getting his skill tree last April fools day |:

[Cheggf]

3 hours ago, lowercase skye said:

They're followers, if you manage to outrun them they'll teleport to make sure they can't get left behind, so there's no reason to constantly stop and make sure they're keeping up. The only time you have to stop moving is directly before a fight that you want them to help with, in which case you can just reorganize your inventory for 5 seconds or something and they'll have caught up.

Did they add this? Because it wasn't like this when the rework came out. They would just loiter when derendered. 

[lowercase skye]

33 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Did they add this? Because it wasn't like this when the rework came out. They would just loiter when derendered. 

Yeah, they made them act a lot more like other followers at some point during the Wickerbottom refresh beta. They worked really weirdly at the very beginning of that beta because they were just the Bee Queen's Grumble Bees with Wickerbottom set as their leader, but they fixed them up to work more like how you'd expect other followers to.

[PonyOfApocalips]

On 3/23/2025 at 12:55 AM, Templar_Warden said:

ya but surely wicker is more usefull than webber regardless of if shes a "switch character". 

Yeah, but she is still useless cause Maxwell exist, and her bees can't do same things as spiders (healing etc.). Webber isn't powerfull right now but i still have reasons to play as him cause he is just intresting.

[00petar00]

Wanda and Webber should be next. Webber should get a really powerful skill tree and Wanda's should also be decently strong with the changes made to lazy deserter or adding rift upgrade to allow single player teleportation on any other lazy deserter in the shard.

Wanda's most useful ability is teleportation and I don't find it fun playing any other character anymore since it just isn't fun to travel around the same biomes to get to the same locations over and over again. She is actually much weak in old age compared to Maxwell's HP that is considered a weakness by some and she gets killed in one hit by rift mobs or even regular bosses can be a problem If you don't use night armor.

I already went over her perks in the past but here is what I want to see:

1. Disabling natural aging in late game because it gets very annoying to manage after you have played her for a long time and it is only really impactful in the early game when you only have one ageless watch and want to use the time pieces she spawns with to make alarming clock but a quick ruins rush or archives will be enough to set you up for the first game year.

2. Soft locking healing so that we don't heal above the age limit we set. Mostly a filler perk but could be useful in specific situations where you could get killed in one hit with the armor you are wearing unless you heal and lose damage.

3. Alarming clock upgrade to shadow? affinity because it lacks damage post rift to mobs with planar defense and this is her main and unique weapon that should be viable the whole game and it doesn't really make much difference swapping to a rift gear besides that you lose the range, at that point weapons and gear are easy to repair anyway.

4. Bag for clocks that works like bearger bin, I often have inventory issues because I carry 6 clocks, nightmare fuel and life giving amulet as a safeguard because I stay in old age at all times.

 

The reason I want to see Wanda next is because I really want teleportation to be available to all characters and she needs buffs to compensate no longer making her "unique". I know Winona can also set teletransport stations but it is much more expensive to make it free like Wanda as you need CC shards to power them up. She should still get buffed If everyone gets access to teleportation.