Wes skill tree idea that makes wes more appealing to play without buffing him at all.

[Cuernito.]

I saw some post about wes and i think they are missing the the whole point of the character, i think he is and always is gonna be the challenge character but thats not a reason to be a boring or not appealing character so i had a good idea for his skill tree that doesnt change his core as the challenge character.

My idea is simple, give wes some skills that unlocks specific task to do like "labours of heracles", for example one skill that adds the challenge to kill bee queen during summer or winter and after you are done with the task you get a reward in return, it can be like more loot from the boss or whatever klei thinks its fair for the task. Others skills could unlock easier tasks that can be done as much as you want like every time you kill 6 hounds under 3 minuts wes gets a little buff in speed for 20 seconds. Or even tasks like kill CC without using certain items and in return wes gets a perma buff of 10 extra points of health. And of course some rewards could help teamates.

I think this makes sense from a gameplay perspective because wes is the "challenge character", and it makes sense from lore perspective too, remember that wes was trying to be a hero or at least trying to help during his animation, so being the "hero" like heracles with his labours makes sense for Wes.

This idea of challanges to do list in my opinion could help Wes to be more appealing to play for intermediate and veteran people because lets be honest even for a veteran like me he is not fun to play, and its not for the challenge it is cause he is boring and tedious, but if klei gives Wes a to do list to challenge yourself with little rewards for the inconveniences even me that hates the character would think about playing with him.

[Cassielu]

Having a lower multiplier on everything is not an interesting challenge.

[Cuernito.]

12 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Having a lower multiplier on everything is not an interesting challenge.

True and thats why i dont like him but im not sure if most people want wes to be on par with the others or just still be the same joke, thats why this is a poll. My first Poll btw.<3

[Picklesaurus]

To do list of challenge sounds boring, I would prefer something like this:

This would not make him as strong as others but it would add new strategies unique to Wes which would be fun to me, leading me to play him since I already like his appearance and personality, but not his current gameplay.

[Mike23Ua]

Here’s the thing, if it’s not straight up damage: then it’s not a Buff.

Wes can use a Top Hat or Umbrella the same way any other character can (except Walter) any item in the entire game, Wes can still probably use.

And DST is mostly a game about crafting and using items, Wes’s Speedy Balloon didn’t break the game, neither did giving him large confetti balloons to restore his sanity- These are items he ALREADY has.

But in order for Klei to actually make him a “challenge” character again- He would have to have far more interesting downsides, such as giving him Walters Downside of not being able to gain stats from worn hats.

This would make Wes’s confetti balloon his main source of regen sanity if Food Items, and Hats no longer can do that job.

I think it would be funny if items used by Wes only HALF Worked, such as for example… when using an Umbrella it had a hole in it so he still took rain wetness.

But then if it did: In a MULTIPLAYER Game, Wes would just be wasting resources that other non-Wes players could gain full Benefits from.

But then again- Walter exists and already makes using clothing items as Walter pointless.

[Kwaik]

I disagree, the skilltree obviously needs to buff him and buff him substantially. 

The data on the character clearly shows how little he's played. Making him stronger and funner would go a huge way. Considering every skill tree has resulted in a huge uptick of a character getting played 

That said there's nothing unreasonable about throwing in a skill (or several) that are a nod to players seeking an increased challenge. 

But the overall skill tree needs to be focused on the 99% of the player base, not the 1%

[Cuernito.]

14 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Here’s the thing, if it’s not straight up damage: then it’s not a Buff.

Wes can use a Top Hat or Umbrella the same way any other character can (except Walter) any item in the entire game, Wes can still probably use.

And DST is mostly a game about crafting and using items, Wes’s Speedy Balloon didn’t break the game, neither did giving him large confetti balloons to restore his sanity- These are items he ALREADY has.

But in order for Klei to actually make him a “challenge” character again- He would have to have far more interesting downsides, such as giving him Walters Downside of not being able to gain stats from worn hats.

This would make Wes’s confetti balloon his main source of regen sanity if Food Items, and Hats no longer can do that job.

I think it would be funny if items used by Wes only HALF Worked, such as for example… when using an Umbrella it had a hole in it so he still took rain wetness.

But then if it did: In a MULTIPLAYER Game, Wes would just be wasting resources that other non-Wes players could gain full Benefits from.

But then again- Walter exists and already makes using clothing items as Walter pointless.

With the idea of the challenges we could have things like "not using winter clothing during winter" to get a little reward, so the challenges can pretty much do what you are talking without being actual nerfs, but its hard to tell which could be the best way to make a skill tree for Wes mostly because some people want to buff him to be on par with the rest of cast and others want to make him harder to use.

3 minutes ago, Kwaik said:

I disagree, the skilltree obviously needs to buff him and buff him substantially. 

The data on the character clearly shows how little he's played. Making him stronger and funner would go a huge way. Considering every skill tree has resulted in a huge uptick of a character getting played 

That said there's nothing unreasonable about throwing in a skill (or several) that are a nod to players seeking an increased challenge. 

But the overall skill tree needs to be focused on the 99% of the player base, not the 1%

then you can vote "nope" i just wanna know what other players want wes to be. i dont have any hard feeling about Wes.

[Mike23Ua]

Actually I just remembered Wes has a Balloon hat, so yeah let’s make umbrellas with holes in them a real downside for him, he would need to use Umbrella + his Balloon hat to negate rain damage.

This also means- Wes can’t use any other Head Gear when trying to stay Dry & Eyebrella is effectively useless to him.

Sounds funny, and gives those seeking a challenge, something to be challenged by.

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

one skill that adds the challenge to kill bee queen during summer or winter

Why do you need the game to tell you to do that?

[Cuernito.]

19 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Why do you need the game to tell you to do that?

Think about achievments in any other game, they are the same but with little rewards for wes, i think they are a form to make wes more appealing without buffing or nerfing him with the skill tree, but to be honest now i wanna know what klei is gonna do with wes, a character that right now is in a weird spot in this game.

[GimplyGoose]

1 hour ago, Kwaik said:

I disagree, the skilltree obviously needs to buff him and buff him substantially. 

The data on the character clearly shows how little he's played. Making him stronger and funner would go a huge way. Considering every skill tree has resulted in a huge uptick of a character getting played 

That said there's nothing unreasonable about throwing in a skill (or several) that are a nod to players seeking an increased challenge. 

But the overall skill tree needs to be focused on the 99% of the player base, not the 1%

I don't think that would be a good way to go about it. Wes fills a pretty specific niche as a challenge character, if his skill tree made him significantly stronger, he would no longer fill that niche and no other character can fill that niche.

[Kwaik]

38 minutes ago, GimplyGoose said:

I don't think that would be a good way to go about it. Wes fills a pretty specific niche as a challenge character, if his skill tree made him significantly stronger, he would no longer fill that niche and no other character can fill that niche.

But nobody plays challenge characters. The stats on how often people play Wes are abundantly clear. Spending a chunk of development time on something nobody's using, and making it less usable, is just a bizzare thing. 

Adding a "challenge" skill is one thing, but overall the character has to get buffed and made fun or nobody's going to actually use it 

[Cheggf]

We should change DST into a battle royale since nobody plays survival games any more. Look at the stats, Fortnite has like 1 million concurrent players, DST doesn't even have 20k.

[WilsonHiggs]

3 hours ago, Kwaik said:

I disagree, the skilltree obviously needs to buff him and buff him substantially. 

The data on the character clearly shows how little he's played. Making him stronger and funner would go a huge way. Considering every skill tree has resulted in a huge uptick of a character getting played 

That said there's nothing unreasonable about throwing in a skill (or several) that are a nod to players seeking an increased challenge. 

But the overall skill tree needs to be focused on the 99% of the player base, not the 1%

And why he should be played more? I think is pretty obvious why a character that doesnt make the game easier than the wilson experience would be least played and a character with easy survival would be the most played

If you want a strong character you have the rest of the pool

[Kwaik]

28 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

And why he should be played more? I think is pretty obvious why a character that doesnt make the game easier than the wilson experience would be least played and a character with easy survival would be the most played

If you want a strong character you have the rest of the pool

It's about resources for game development. And a business decision for a company. Why would you spend months of development time to do something nobody's going to use. You make a game better, more people will buy it, buy skins etc. 

Every single skill tree has made characters more approachable, and enjoyable. And as a result every single character has gotten played more after their skill tree refreshes. 

That said numerous characters have skill trees that are broken up into multiple categories/functions . It's not unreasonable for Wes to have some kind of bizzaro world segment of Wes skill tree to make the character objectively worse. 

 

[Kain_32]

(My English is bad in places, so excuse me)

What if will be a “unluck” branch in the Wes skills tree? I mean, well .. let's say ne have a branch of ballons, a pantomim branch, a branch .... imagination, idk lol....

And.... attention...

a branch of "Unluck". And in it there will be not sure call that skills. maybe more correct call this modifiers, to make the player’s life harder. not someting great like " If wes stay in dark 0,1 second, he died because Charlie hit him 9999 damadge. i mean something little troble, like small rock in you boot. BUT having put a little effort the player can wrap this complication to his benefit.

To the question, "why i wanna give my point ib this branch?"

The answer. "For each perk of this branch you give you 2 points of Keshbek skills. 

Well, as an example of complication, I can offer this.

During the cutting of the Wes tree, a cone /Chestnut can fall on his head (hello , Coconut from Shipwricked) if the Wes can dodge, then he will receive + 1 Cone/Chesthut. And he will be able to plant 1 tree more. If it does not dodge, it will receive a bump on the head and -10 hp and that's it. 
P. S. I think that the Wes skills tree will look like a mirror break.

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, WilsonHiggs said:

And why he should be played more? I think is pretty obvious why a character that doesnt make the game easier than the wilson experience would be least played and a character with easy survival would be the most played

If you want a strong character you have the rest of the pool

Why do you keep comparing Wes to Wilson? Wes has several things already going for him right NOW before he even gets his skill tree that Wilson currently does not.. Wilson’s skill tree is even more of a joke then Wes’s original design.

Let’s count some of the things Wes actually now has shall we? Speedy Balloon for quick map revealing in new worlds, (or for quickly escaping danger) Confetti Party, this one is actually cool, make a big balloon, explode it to get back lost Sanity, Balloon Vest & Hat, useful to negate lightning strikes and to not drowned.

Like it or not: Your so called “challenge character” has some better skills and items then Wilson’s what was it again? 9 skill point investment to have longer lasting torches he can toss.

My point is abundantly clear: Wes changed when he got an actual rework, and his skill tree should not suddenly make him worse again.

All characters downsides have been being significantly lessened or out right removed.

Wormwood the character who’s entire gimmick was having a harder time healing, now passively heals by just walking around in Sunlight.

[Edible Coal]

tbh we have literally  no idea how klei sees in wes, maybe they are just fine that no one ever plays him 

[El Muz]

I hope the wes skill tree adds more things that seems negative but turns out to be a buff in unique niche situations.

like his lower tool and weapon degredation.
Darkswords do less damage but still need the same number of hits for smaller mobs, which made them last longer.

shovels, hoes, pitchforks, fire an ice staff last longer and have no sideeffects.

his balloonmancy has „high“ sanitycost, but are perfect for nightmare fuel farming. Or lunar island. And since he can craft festiveballoons which regenerate sanity you can craft them when you arrive and pop them before you leave.

his lower max sanity makes passive sanityauras work faster relative to his maxsanity. One terrorbeakkill heals half his sanity.

 

One example for his skill tree extension could be waterballooncrafting. Right now you can turn 4 waterballons into his pile o balloons. But i would want it the other way around with ice or near ponds. And every craft would also add 20%wetness. 20%wetness seems like a negative at first. But would be a way to deal with summer heat and waterballons could help with wildfires.

[Kain_32]

15 minutes ago, El Muz said:

I hope the wes skill tree adds more things that seems negative but turns out to be a buff in unique niche situations.

like his lower tool and weapon degredation.
Darkswords do less damage but still need the same number of hits for smaller mobs, which made them last longer.

shovels, hoes, pitchforks, fire an ice staff last longer and have no sideeffects.

his balloonmancy has „high“ sanitycost, but are perfect for nightmare fuel farming. Or lunar island. And since he can craft festiveballoons which regenerate sanity you can craft them when you arrive and pop them before you leave.

his lower max sanity makes passive sanityauras work faster relative to his maxsanity. One terrorbeakkill heals half his sanity.

 

One example for his skill tree extension could be waterballooncrafting. Right now you can turn 4 waterballons into his pile o balloons. But i would want it the other way around with ice or near ponds. And every craft would also add 20%wetness. 20%wetness seems like a negative at first. But would be a way to deal with summer heat and waterballons could help with wildfires.

I had a similar thought. Using a bunch of balloons on the pond, you get a ballon of water. With a 25% chance, a hostile frog appears.

[gaymime]

14 hours ago, Kwaik said:

But nobody plays challenge characters. The stats on how often people play Wes are abundantly clear. Spending a chunk of development time on something nobody's using, and making it less usable, is just a bizzare thing. 

Adding a "challenge" skill is one thing, but overall the character has to get buffed and made fun or nobody's going to actually use it 

100% this. if people aren't playing a char then making the char less appealing to people isn't going to change their odds of being picked it is just going to anger people that time was "wasted" making the character less playable. the only thing it does is make a handful of people who already don't want the character around feel validated in their feelings

18 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

My idea is simple, give wes some skills that unlocks specific task to do like "labours of heracles", for example one skill that adds the challenge to kill bee queen during summer or winter and after you are done with the task you get a reward in return, it can be like more loot from the boss or whatever klei thinks its fair for the task. Others skills could unlock easier tasks that can be done as much as you want like every time you kill 6 hounds under 3 minuts wes gets a little buff in speed for 20 seconds. Or even tasks like kill CC without using certain items and in return wes gets a perma buff of 10 extra points of health. And of course some rewards could help teamates.

I think this makes sense from a gameplay perspective because wes is the "challenge character", and it makes sense from lore perspective too, remember that wes was trying to be a hero or at least trying to help during his animation, so being the "hero" like heracles with his labours makes sense for Wes.

ok, so this actually has me rather excited BUT hear me out; instead of in-game achievements it was how you got steam achievements in the game? i have seen a lot of people use the mod that lets you get fake 'chievos for doing tasks and when i tried it a few years back it was pretty fun to do. it doesn't take away anything and, in the context of the game itself it doesn’t add anything either AND for the people who are motivated by showing off to their friends it is a way to get publicly acknowledged since achievements are public. it wouldn't really give anyone a reason to main him but it would give people to try him out at least(and would give him utility)

[Kwaik]

10 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

tbh we have literally  no idea how klei sees in wes, maybe they are just fine that no one ever plays him 

Ooh ooh then they shouldn't add any skilltree at all 

Now thats the real challenge 

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Kwaik said:

Ooh ooh then they shouldn't add any skilltree at all 

Now thats the real challenge 

No they totally should erase the concept of him still being a “challenge” character and instead focus on making him an actually fun to play as and unique character, and I can provide several valid reasons as to why.

#1- Unlike solo DS, Wes isn’t unlocked through progress, he’s selectable from the start like any other non-DLC character.

#2- DST has added several newer characters and reworked several old ones to give them more unique “challenges” such as for example: WX78 actually taking health damage when out in the rain.

#3- DST changed the rules when Wes could tame a 2,000+ HP self healing combat mount that now thanks to things like the Beefalo Bell & Gloombell- Allow easy taming & resurrection of your combat mount.

#4- Okay look I’m just gonna say it, Wes’s Rework (his actual rework) was pretty darn fun, it gave the so called “challenge” character some actual unique toys to play around with in his very own Balloon-O-Mancy crafts.

So with all that said- I want to see new things we can do with “Balloons” giving him the ability to easily make Water Balloons is a no brainer, but I was thinking of more complex stuff such as being able to tie a red Balloon to the tail of a Beefalo so like Bulls- Other Beefalo follow it. Or being able to create a huge balloon that traps himself inside and makes him float over gaps of land before it bursts shortly afterwards dumping him out on his behind (with a short stunned or funny silent mime cursing animation) Or being able to tie raw meat to a balloon that hovers and drifts away (would be useful to distract or attract things like spiders) 

Why?? Because if Walter can get a portable campfire, treats that never spoil, and easy healing from 3 butterflies- Wes can be Better too.

[Kain_32]

A raft of balloons on which only a Wes can stand and using for swiming. 

[Chewabacca]

14 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

#2- DST has added several newer characters and reworked several old ones to give them more unique “challenges” such as for example: WX78 actually taking health damage when out in the rain.

WX has taken damage from the rain since vanilla DS.

15 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

#3- DST changed the rules when Wes could tame a 2,000+ HP self healing combat mount that now thanks to things like the Beefalo Bell & Gloombell- Allow easy taming & resurrection of your combat mount.

? Wes has no unique advantage when it comes to beefalo taming, so I can't see how this "changed the rules" on Wes. Does armor existing also change the rules?

20 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

#4- Okay look I’m just gonna say it, Wes’s Rework (his actual rework) was pretty darn fun, it gave the so called “challenge” character some actual unique toys to play around with in his very own Balloon-O-Mancy crafts.

It also lowered all of his stats by a lot and gave him some other new downsides, so I don't see how his refresh is a reason why he shouldn't be challenge character.

23 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why?? Because if Walter can get a portable campfire, treats that never spoil, and easy healing from 3 butterflies- Wes can be Better too.

?? What on earth does Walter have to do with Wes?