Fuelweaver ... wtf

[Risar]

Going to vent. This fight is absolutely annoying as heck. Specifically the invisible hands mechanic, they seem nearly impossible to target and flipping the nightmare amulet on and off while the F key targeting keeps pulling you back to fuelweaver, absolutely s--- mechanic. I've even tried using houndius shootius and we still can't win in a team of 2, and while we aren't pro, we aren't bad. This is honestly just a horrible fight for the capstone. 

Worse I'm playing as Wortox and if there are shadows anywhere you can't successfully teleport often because of the pillars and shadows obscuring the view, I'm over here rage clicking and nothing is happening 

[Cheggf]

Click on the hands with your mouse, do not press F.

[_mylilsunshine_]

you can bind force attack to the same button as your attack, so force attack F and attack F, now you'll attack the hands on command. you'll also attack a lot of things that you may or may not want to, but at least you'll always attack anything when you press F

[Auth]

I always use ctrl+f and it usually makes me retarget onto the hands just fine.

Try taking on Celestial Champion first, most players find him much more manageable (he's far more forgiving anyways, never healing or even despawning until you kill him, third phase is completely helpless against ranged attacks) and lunar rift equipment helps a ton during the FW fight (namely Brightshade staff)

Just keep practicing too, eventually you'll get better with those patterns and managing your equipment.

[Shandrok]

I recently had a similar issue. What my buddy and I did to beat the fuelweaver was have one person take care of the hands, while the other waited with a weather pain to prevent fuelweaver from healing. The person taking care of the hands can walk right up to them which helps with the targeting issue. (We play on console). 2 or 3 weather pains should do the trick. Hope this helps.

[Echsrick]

try out some gun powder aswell, thats how i killed him

[NoodlemanNed]

i cant wait to see the exact same fuelweaver hate comments from the same 3 people that always complain about it

[DegenerateFurry]

Yeah, he really does suck and needs to get a rework like Crab King did. At the very least, they need to make his mechanics scale down for solo players, reduce the rate of terrorbeak spawning from the nightmare amulet, make his mind control thing not activate unless you're insane, and they need to fix the issue where you target him over the things you can actually damage when he's invincible (which I think is what you're referring to). 

Don't worry, though - there's a much better "final boss" boss in the game: Celestial Champion. Fuelweaver sure would be disappointing if he was the only final boss, but he's not, so you're honestly better off doing what Echsrick said and gunpowdering him (2 stacks ought to do it, it'll be worth the grind). 

[Cheggf]

14 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Yeah, he really does suck and needs to get a rework like Crab King did. At the very least, they need to make his mechanics scale down for solo players, reduce the rate of terrorbeak spawning from the nightmare amulet, make his mind control thing not activate unless you're insane, and they need to fix the issue where you target him over the things you can actually damage when he's invincible (which I think is what you're referring to). 

Don't worry, though - there's a much better "final boss" boss in the game: Celestial Champion. Fuelweaver sure would be disappointing if he was the only final boss, but he's not, so you're honestly better off doing what Echsrick said and gunpowdering him (2 stacks ought to do it, it'll be worth the grind). 

Man if you want to ruin the game just get mods or cheese him or something. AFW is the best fight in the entire game and there's next to nothing that should be changed.

[Echsrick]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

ruin the game

so was changin how crab king works alsol "ruining the game"?

[Anis5240]

5 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

so was changin how crab king works alsol "ruining the game"?

too bad CK remains sucks in both iterations lmaooooooo

[Steorra]

30 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

so was changin how crab king works alsol "ruining the game"?

the current CK is fine. The old one was in bad design as same as the toad. Which both of them are boring, meaningless long time-consuming.

the AFW is best design for the game. 

some of you seems cannot know what different between good design and bad design if both of them is "hard" for you.

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Cheggf said:

Man if you want to ruin the game just get mods or cheese him or something. AFW is the best fight in the entire game and there's next to nothing that should be changed.

Oh boy, where to begin?

• The invincibility shield should make it so you do not target him over his woven shadows or the unseen hands. This just makes it so you're fighting the controls more than you're fighting the boss. Feels like a bug more than an intended mechanic, should be fixed. Serves literally no purpose but to be frustrating.
• The fossil RNG, while a funny haha reference to the flaws of early paleontology, is... kinda pointless, and yet another aspect of this fight that's just annoying.
  • Getting the fossils for Fuelweaver does all but require you to clear out non-renewable Spilagmites, which sucks for any Webbers you might have with you, since spitters are great and manufacturing them rather than recruiting them isn't worth the cost. 
• There is simply not enough time for you to attack him between dealing with his healing phase and his invincibility phase, so this boss with 16000 HP drags on for an obnoxiously long amount of time because you're actually dealing damage for a tiny portion of it. So, he should have a longer cooldown on making himself invincible and trying to fully heal.
• His bone ring attack (where he rains bones in a circle) is largely decorative, I don't think I've ever even seen anyone get hit by it. What's the point of it? 
• His bone cage spam is cancerous and requires you to spam teleports, and dodging it by running three times the attack distance of Dragonfly with no indication of where it ends, which also happens to take up 90% of the Atrium is not a good workaround.
  • The fact that highly skilled players who try to minimize sanity loss have to abuse the cage not forming properly on the edge of the arena is an indicator that it's too frequent. You will end up using probably at least two Lazy Explorers, which you otherwise are not likely to fully use up, meaning the fight requires you to sacrifice something you could've kept for your whole playthrough. Solution? Make him do the bone cage less frequently.
• He heals way too much from Woven Shadows, making it feel too punishing if you miss even a single one. That means using 2-3 Weather Pains (more if you screw up at all), because they don't all spawn at once and instead move slowly towards him, so each heal phase requires multiple uses. 
  • The voltgoat horn's famously bad drop rate means that you're going to feel each one you burn on him, especially if you're Warly and have better uses for those horns.
• You're pretty much required to use the Nightmare Amulet to fight him, which has an obnoxious tendency to rapidly spawn multiple Terrorbeaks. 
  • The Terrorbeaks tend not to despawn once you take the amulet off for several seconds, so while everything else is going on, you are also being chased by a fast nightmare creature that does 50 damage a hit and attacks rapidly, and there's probably multiple. 
• The Bee Queen crown is essential for the fight if you don't want to burn a crazy amount of sanity food.
  • Because of how small the windows are where you're not teleporting, killing Wovens, killing Unseen Hands, or managing sanity, you're encouraged to tank. This means you are going to lose a lot of durability on a very useful sanity restoration tool, or possibly even lose it, unless you're hot-swapping your armor in addition to everything else.
• The way item swapping works in this game means your inventory will be constantly rearranging itself if you're using number keys to swap between items. With how many different things you're swapping between in this fight (Lazy Explorer, your chosen weapon, Weather Pain, shadow amulet, a different chest slot item that's probably either armor or a mag, and ideally Bee Queen crown and a helmet), this gets really chaotic fast if you're not overly careful and requires a level of inventory management that far exceeds anything else in the game. 
  • This is a problem mostly because the fight is so fast-paced and so punishing if you miss your chance or make a small mistake. Toning down how punishing it is or slowing it down a little would help considerably.
  • The required item list for this boss is longer than it is for any other boss, and you may genuinely struggle to find room for everything in your inventory without a backpack (which isn't an option since you need an amulet for parts of the fight).
• Fuelweaver is available far earlier than his lunar counterpart, which is a problem when he's substantially more difficult and less forgiving. 
  • You can pretty reliably fight Fuelweaver by mid-winter or Spring if you're mildly experienced, but Celestial Champion - by virtue of requiring you to do Pearl's quest, visit the ruins for a Star Caller, do the moonstone event, Crab King, start up the archives, assemble all three altars on the lunar island, ideally kill Bee Queen for bundling wrap, grow a potato, and then do the moonstorms - will likely not be fought until at minimum autumn 2 if you're solo.
  • Celestial Champion's combat loop is overall far more inline with what the game typically expects of you, although it is more difficult.
  • Fuelweaver is infinitely more punishing than Celestial Champion because he'll despawn if you even leave the Atrium, whereas Celestial Champion lets you leave and resume the fight whenever you want.
  • Celestial Champion and Fuelweaver are meant to be equivalents for their side and at the same point in progression, they're just not (since Fuelweaver is accessible earlier, but is way harder). How do I know this? They both give you access to loot that helps you considerably with countering the other one. The Bone Helm is to Celestial Champion as the Brightshade Staff is to Fuelweaver. There is no reason to do this unless they're counterparts, and the skill trees also equate them as locks for planar perks.
• Due to his status as the boss that enables shadow rifts, he is sadly not skippable like Toadstool (whose fight also drags on way too long and eats too many resources, but that's just because his HP is too high). 
• A rework would make him less controversial. My polls over the years have indicated that close to half of players want him to be changed in at least small ways (such as scaling his attacks down for solo players), and the vast majority of players like Crab King post-rework (or at least don't have a negative opinion of him, which was the smallest group in the poll). Crab King was at least as controversial as Fuelweaver pre-rework. Therefore, a rework could absolutely make Fuelweaver more fun for more players, and it's something Klei should seriously consider doing soon, especially if they're gonna keep focusing on stuff that happens after you beat him.

[Anis5240]

2 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Getting the fossils for Fuelweaver does all but require you to clear out non-renewable Spilagmites

?????? That's just wrong; I've mined stalagmites and getting over 50 fossil fragments and I STILL didn't fully clear out all those and the spilagmites in my 3.9k day world.

4 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I don't think I've ever even seen anyone get hit by it.

just cuz you hadn't seen it doesn't mean it hadn't happened

5 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

50

didn't terrorbeaks do like 40 damage

6 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

whereas Celestial Champion lets you leave and resume the fight whenever you want.

at the cost of healing up to 24k HP during phase 3

[DegenerateFurry]

2 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

?????? That's just wrong; I've mined stalagmites and getting over 50 fossil fragments and I STILL didn't fully clear out all those and the spilagmites in my 3.9k day world.

The chance for a stalagmite to drop a fossil is 10%. You must be mining a lot of them. Also, I'm not talking about genociding cave spiders, I'm talking about removing (probably the more accessible) irreplaceable and useful objects from the world. It should be avoided when possible.

4 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

just cuz you hadn't seen it doesn't mean it hadn't happened

I mean, fair, but it can't happen much. 

4 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

didn't terrorbeaks do like 40 damage

Nope, they do 50. 

[Anis5240]

7 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

You must be mining a lot of them.

I only mined tons of them cuz I'm tired of waiting for big worm.

[somethin]

7 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

The chance for a stalagmite to drop a fossil is 10%. You must be mining a lot of them. Also, I'm not talking about genociding cave spiders, I'm talking about removing (probably the more accessible) irreplaceable and useful objects from the world. It should be avoided when possible.

But clearing a spilagmite guarantee you a drop with a chance of extra. The maximum you need to clear is 8. That's barely "genocide". Surely you have some nest you will probably ever revisit you won't mind clearing them?

[Cheggf]

16 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

• The invincibility shield should make it so you do not target him over his woven shadows or the unseen hands.
• The fossil RNG

Sure. We could do those. We could also make it more apparent that it's possible to dodge the bone cage attack, and do something to let you know if you're not dealing enough damage and he's just undone all your progress. The rest of this is just you once again deciding you don't like something so you come up with as many nonsensical contrived reasons why it's bad as you can think of. We should remove the ring attack because it's too easy to dodge, when his primary headbutt attack is way easier to dodge? Really?

[DegenerateFurry]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Sure. We could do those. We could also make it more apparent that it's possible to dodge the bone cage attack, and do something to let you know if you're not dealing enough damage and he's just undone all your progress. The rest of this is just you once again deciding you don't like something so you come up with as many nonsensical contrived reasons why it's bad as you can think of. We should remove the ring attack because it's too easy to dodge, when his primary headbutt attack is way easier to dodge? Really?

I never said we should remove the ring attack because it's too easy to dodge, I said it's pointless. I'd actually be in favor of making the ring attack more impactful if the gimmicky invincibility, bone cage, and healing were all toned down.

Also, you either have poor reading comprehension, are willfully ignorant, or didn't read any of my points. Go back and read it again and come up with an actual counterargument or don't bother commenting on it, dismissing it wholesale because you don't feel like thinking is pretty cheap.

[oregu]

1 hour ago, NoodlemanNed said:

i cant wait to see the exact same fuelweaver hate comments from the same 3 people that always complain about it

allow me to introduce myself

delete fuelweaver. they said "You are not Them..." when i am, in fact, them. im that guy, pal.

[YouKnowWho142]

i just use a clientside mod that makes it so that you autotarget woven shadows/shadow hands over fuelweaver. If targeting is the thing that's bugging you that makes it a lot easier

[Anis5240]

1 minute ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

clientside mod

I wish we don't have to depend on mods of all things just to make game feels better, dawg.

[YouKnowWho142]

8 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

I wish we don't have to depend on mods of all things just to make game feels better, dawg.

i understand, i never justified how the current targeting works, having to pull your mouse away to click on shadow hands when you have so much else to manage can be downright unfair at times without a lot of skill and practice especially solo

i think the fight is mostly fair, but it really punishes characters without high burst damage or good aoe, fuelweaver has been getting easier with every skill tree and is at a point where I don't really complain about him anymore since almost every character now has one or both, winona alone basically gets a free win since her pure horror vines (another symptom of pre-rift pure horror, but that's me complaining) spawnkill the woven shadows for almost 8 full minutes basically just removing one of his main gimmicks, and that's just one example

[shaurun]

6 hours ago, Risar said:

Going to vent. This fight is absolutely annoying as heck. Specifically the invisible hands mechanic, they seem nearly impossible to target and flipping the nightmare amulet on and off while the F key targeting keeps pulling you back to fuelweaver, absolutely s--- mechanic. I've even tried using houndius shootius and we still can't win in a team of 2, and while we aren't pro, we aren't bad. This is honestly just a horrible fight for the capstone. 

Worse I'm playing as Wortox and if there are shadows anywhere you can't successfully teleport often because of the pillars and shadows obscuring the view, I'm over here rage clicking and nothing is happening 

Same with me, I won't say it's annoying, but it's freaking as hell, the micromanagement you should so during this fight is insase, I stress FW a lot. And even if you want to use gunpowder you still need to make 1 ideal round of woven shadows and shadow hands.

Also as people suggested split the work, one person is responsible for vowen shadows and should focus only on it. Just stop fighting and only thing he does is vowen shadows with whirlwinds, Another person should focus hands and do damage to FW. This way you can beat it with 2 persons pretty easily.

[WilsonHiggs]

Best fight in the game precisely, in a big portion, for needing to manage sanity to break the hands. By pressing ctrl+F you hit the closest target so you simply need to get close to a hand, equip your amulet and press ctrl+F, you can also rush CC to get a BS staff before killing FW. If you have problems equiping the amulet remeber you can use numbers and extra buttoms from your mouse to quick equip, othet than that, learn to organize your inventory and practice fast switching with your mouse or the keys i mentioned

Being 2 players can make things harder if you dont coordinate but you will have, atleast, double wilson dps so, if you do stuff barely ok, FW will fall pretty quick

The fight feels hard and some people hate it because is the first time klei make us use more than 1 buttom instead of being one of the most skilless games tagged as survival in the market. Most games require a lot more skill than the required for this fight which boss is slow as F and his attacks are easily avoidable 

Is sad that this game cant have cool fights despite you being able to win everything with enough resources easily amassed, reviving being nearly free and having a very low skill cap... we are doomed to receive only weak bosses like NMW which can be killed in 1 minute... is the same reason why some people, what a coincidence being mostly the same, hate sailing, it requires something more than pressing WASD