[Game Update] - 653176

[Dingle]

5 minutes ago, Lardee said:

adds 10 planar damage to your (player) attacks

Is that really that bad? It's better than Walter's version. It's pure planar. And it's both very cheap, and can be stacked on top of other elixir effects.

[Lardee]

3 minutes ago, Apple49856 said:

Uh not at all???
 

While Yes this made Shadow Wendy less powerful she still has access to her perks significantly earlier, as well as having access to aoe unlike Lunar Abby (who is bugged to hell and back btw from this update Klei plz fix)

Okay, you have a slight incentive to pick Shadow Wendy over Lunar if you're not planning on activating the surface rifts.

[Thieta]

10 minutes ago, Dingle said:

What? The vex nerf thing was like part of a week, tops.

Wendy has been getting updates for 2+ months now I think. Quite the drop in the bucket.

And yet look at this update... If you truly think them having conversations on if they should nerf wendy, Then deciding to nerf wendy, Trying multiple things, Only to just end up with scrapping the skill and putting it as planar damage.... If you don't understand how that takes time away from their schedule, Then... no cure.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Thieta said:

And yet look at this update... If you truly think them having conversations on if they should nerf wendy, Then deciding to nerf wendy, Trying multiple things, Only to just end up with scrapping the skill and putting it as planar damage.... If you don't understand how that takes time away from their schedule, Then... no cure.

I'm sorry if that conversation somehow took 2 months of dev time, from Walter and Wortox.

I also play Wendy btw.

[Mysterious box]

15 minutes ago, Lardee said:

adds 10 planar damage to your (player) attacks

I don't get how this is bad?

Wasn't the conversation going on about improving Wendy's end game damage rather than the early game?

[Lardee]

4 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Is that really that bad? It's better than Walter's version. It's pure planar. And it's both very cheap, and can be stacked on top of other elixir effects.

Why is Walter relevant when we're comparing incentives for Shadow and Lunar alignment?

Why bother when the Lunar potion gives Gestalt Abigail an even higher regular and planar DPS in addition to having much greater survivability?

 

 

 

 

[Jakeyosaurus]

Hello I have been testing the 3 characters in BETA and would like to focus on Wendy in this post because I think Walter & Wortox are quite strong and don't need many if any changes.

I'll talk a bit about DPS to put Wendy's in perspective, Wanda's DPS with her weapon at old age is ~270 dps, Wolfgang with a Dark Sword has a dps of ~299 and Wolfgang with void gear and Mighty weapons V has a dps of ~342.

With that in mind let's talk about Wendy's DPS

Wendy's DPS with void gear & Shadow abigail with her potions and murder ability active after this update is ~290dps, 65 of which is AoE. I think this is great dps.

Without void gear but using a hambat decreases her dps to ~237 while with a darksword it's ~260 and thulecite club ~273.

The biggest change has been to the Beefalo interactions, before this update Wendy on a beefalo with the old shadow potion effects, which greatly increased Wendy's damage multipliers and therefore Beefalo's too, could reach a dps surpassing 400, which heavily pushed Beefalo DPS ahead of any other Wendy dps.

With the new shadow potion change, removing the multiplier buffs and introducing the flat planar addition to your attacks has balanced things such that a Beefalo's DPS is now much more in-line with the dps of using purely Wendy with void gear, Beefalo with Nightmare saddle and buffs reach ~250 dps. (War Saddle dps is ~265)

I think overall this Wendy change is GOOD because it pulls Beefalo potential in-line with Wendy using gear herself.

 

Other comments I have are regarding gestalt abigail.

If you fight with abigail whether she's shadow or gestalt abigail, with their respective buffs/potions. You will have overall a very similar DPS except gestalt abigail is purely single target and has absolutely no avenue for area of effect. The only upside for gestalt abigail is that her dps is ~105 when fighting by herself whereas shadow abigail's dps fighting by herself is ~65, so only if you plan on not fighting with abigail does gestalt abigail actually become better.

I say this because I think gestalt abigail could probably deal a little more damage so that she lightly beats shadow abigail in purely single target scenarios, for now she's only better if you plan on not fighting with abigail, which could be quite funny having gestalt abigail solo bosses. Otherwise you lose AoE damage for no gain. (Including gestalt abigial can't use the 'attack at' command for AoE dps)

I think blessed sisturn III could be revised, I think the original reason for the skill has been lost sight of. It's currently a 3 point investment for a net zero gain, she takes 1/2 damage but heals 1/2 the amount. You only benefit from using this skill if you planned to never heal her in the first place. The only other the skill does is reduce the volatility of abigail's health. 

Overall 3 great skill trees! Nice work and they're very fun to play!!

EDIT: 

Also add spirit vessel to the 1st grave skill not the 2nd one please thank you because the ghosts don't attack anymore and so the 1st skill is useless ;c

Edited February 5, 2025 by Jakeyosaurus

[Lardee]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't get how this is bad?

Wasn't the conversation going on about improving Wendy's end game damage rather than the early game?

Some people made that argument, not me.

My concerns were always about incentives. Does one branch offer enough of an incentive to pick it over the other and more importantly, does the game incentivize you to approach it in a more unique and engaging way.

[MatthewLovesYou]

1 hour ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

I'm probably one of the most "extremist" Wortox play testers here, and even I don't want an overhaul. What I want would require a fine tuning in several places, but it's really just because of my qualms with the Soul Jar's (and Nabsack's) implementation, as that item touches (or tramples on) almost everything in the skill tree. I don't think it's a careful or nuanced way to solve his historical issues as a character. The current design framework is generally acceptable, though unpolished and lacking in cohesion.

Isn't that for more than half of the characters' trees though? I don't remember any being super polished and agreed by most to be good. Half of the existing ones still would need tweaking while the rest could use a complete rework and even then some things are just impossible to be fully balanced.

[Y0sH]

After posts and posts and posts of requesting thee most minimal tweaks regarding Wortox's Skilltree and him for all intents and purposes being deemed "complete" by Devs months ago is extremely disappointing. Wortox not being mentioned in the last few updates at all seemed to foreshadow exactly what alot of Wortox players were thinking. Wortox couldn't even get a tiltable scale effect with the Skilltree, even more doubt to that "worked in parallel" claim.

Edited February 5, 2025 by Y0sH

[MrMyther]

Just now, Jakeyosaurus said:

let's talk about Wendy's DPS

The horror.

[Jakeyosaurus]

2 minutes ago, Jakeyosaurus said:

Hello I have been testing the 3 characters in BETA and would like to focus on Wendy in this post because I think Walter & Wortox are quite strong and don't need many if any changes.

I'll talk a bit about DPS to put Wendy's in perspective, Wanda's DPS with her weapon at old age is ~270 dps, Wolfgang with a Dark Sword has a dps of ~299 and Wolfgang with void gear and Mighty weapons V has a dps of ~342.

With that in mind let's talk about Wendy's DPS

Wendy's DPS with void gear & Shadow abigail with her potions and murder ability active after this update is ~290dps, 65 of which is AoE. I think this is great dps.

Without void gear but using a hambat decreases her dps to ~237 while with a darksword it's ~260 and thulecite club ~273.

The biggest change has been to the Beefalo interactions, before this update Wendy on a beefalo with the old shadow potion effects, which greatly increased Wendy's damage multipliers and therefore Beefalo's too, could reach a dps surpassing 400, which heavily pushed Beefalo DPS ahead of any other Wendy dps.

With the new shadow potion change, removing the multiplier buffs and introducing the flat planar addition to your attacks has balanced things such that a Beefalo's DPS is now much more in-line with the dps of using purely Wendy with void gear, Beefalo with Nightmare saddle and buffs reach ~250 dps. (War Saddle dps is ~265)

I think overall this Wendy change is GOOD because it pulls Beefalo potential in-line with Wendy using gear herself.

 

Other comments I have are regarding gestalt abigail.

If you fight with abigail whether she's shadow or gestalt abigail, with their respective buffs/potions. You will have overall a very similar DPS except gestalt abigail is purely single target and has absolutely no avenue for area of effect. The only upside for gestalt abigail is that her dps is ~105 when fighting by herself whereas shadow abigail's dps fighting by herself is ~65, so only if you plan on not fighting with abigail does gestalt abigail actually become better.

I say this because I think gestalt abigail could probably deal a little more damage so that she lightly beats shadow abigail in purely single target scenarios, for now she's only better if you plan on not fighting with abigail, which could be quite funny having gestalt abigail solo bosses. Otherwise you lose AoE damage for no gain. (Including gestalt abigial can't use the 'attack at' command for AoE dps)

I think blessed sisturn III could be revised, I think the original reason for the skill has been lost sight of. It's currently a 3 point investment for a net zero gain, she takes 1/2 damage but heals 1/2 the amount. You only benefit from using this skill if you planned to never heal her in the first place. The only other the skill does is reduce the volatility of abigail's health. 

Overall 3 great skill trees! Nice work and they're very fun to play!!

Also add spirit vessel to the 1st grave skill not the 2nd one please thank you because the ghosts don't attack anymore and so the 1st skill is useless 

[Mike23Ua]

Geez, another update all about Wendy? I hope the changes coming for Walter/Wortox later are significant enough.

Its cool we can finally store mourning glory in the picnic casket though, I been wanting that buff for a while.

[Soul7k]

4 minutes ago, Jakeyosaurus said:

Also add spirit vessel to the 1st grave skill not the 2nd one please thank you because the ghosts don't attack anymore and so the 1st skill is useless 

this sounds like a bug

[ALCRD]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

Walter stuff IS coming. The last couple updates has had Wendy stuff, so it might look like it's superseding Walter stuff. That is not the case. Walter's tree has been worked on in parallel. The Walter stuff will come to the Beta when it is ready.

What about Wortox stuff?

[Crimson Hollow]

10 minutes ago, Jakeyosaurus said:

because I think Walter & Wortox are quite strong and don't need many if any changes.

They are not. Still a bunch of things to add actually. 

 

[Dingle]

19 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Why is Walter relevant when we're comparing incentives for Shadow and Lunar alignment?

Why bother when the Lunar potion gives Gestalt Abigail an even higher regular and planar DPS in addition to having much greater survivability?

 

 

 

 

Gestalt loses AOE.

Walter's +5 planar damage ammo is Lunar locked.

11 minutes ago, Soul7k said:

this sounds like a bug

It's not a bug. It was changed because you got everything in 1 point before. There was very little reason to get graves 2.

14 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Geez, another update all about Wendy? I hope the changes coming for Walter/Wortox later are significant enough.

Its cool we can finally store mourning glory in the picnic casket though, I been wanting that buff for a while.

Pretty amazing buff! I see the picnic casket as even more of a must have now.

[Lardee]

Just now, Dingle said:

Gestalt loses AOE.

Walter's +5 planar damage ammo is Lunar locked.

The vast majority of actual tough fights do not require AoE, and in the few fights that do, you can just use regular Abigail with the lunar potion for almost the same DPS as the shadow potion.

Again, not sure why you're bringing up Walter when we're comparing incentives for Shadow Wendy vs Lunar Wendy.

[aidankocherhans]

41 minutes ago, Thieta said:

Just cause someone booted up and "Played" wendy for 10 minutes is not the same as someone who actually plays her as their "Main" with 100s of hours.

Once again, you have no reason to assume this, it's possible for a Wendy main to have a different opinion than you

 

42 minutes ago, Thieta said:

The best thing for walter/wortox was for everyone to shut up and stop talking about wendy - Give good feedback on walter/wortox and help the devs make the characters.

There has been nothing to give feedback on for the other characters for a long time, but there has been for Wendy 

[Yaorin yon]

21 minutes ago, Jakeyosaurus said:

Hello I have been testing the 3 characters in BETA and would like to focus on Wendy in this post because I think Walter & Wortox are quite strong and don't need many if any changes.

I'll talk a bit about DPS to put Wendy's in perspective, Wanda's DPS with her weapon at old age is ~270 dps, Wolfgang with a Dark Sword has a dps of ~299 and Wolfgang with void gear and Mighty weapons V has a dps of ~342.

With that in mind let's talk about Wendy's DPS

Wendy's DPS with void gear & Shadow abigail with her potions and murder ability active after this update is ~290dps, 65 of which is AoE. I think this is great dps.

Without void gear but using a hambat decreases her dps to ~237 while with a darksword it's ~260 and thulecite club ~273.

The biggest change has been to the Beefalo interactions, before this update Wendy on a beefalo with the old shadow potion effects, which greatly increased Wendy's damage multipliers and therefore Beefalo's too, could reach a dps surpassing 400, which heavily pushed Beefalo DPS ahead of any other Wendy dps.

With the new shadow potion change, removing the multiplier buffs and introducing the flat planar addition to your attacks has balanced things such that a Beefalo's DPS is now much more in-line with the dps of using purely Wendy with void gear, Beefalo with Nightmare saddle and buffs reach ~250 dps. (War Saddle dps is ~265)

I think overall this Wendy change is GOOD because it pulls Beefalo potential in-line with Wendy using gear herself.

 

Other comments I have are regarding gestalt abigail.

If you fight with abigail whether she's shadow or gestalt abigail, with their respective buffs/potions. You will have overall a very similar DPS except gestalt abigail is purely single target and has absolutely no avenue for area of effect. The only upside for gestalt abigail is that her dps is ~105 when fighting by herself whereas shadow abigail's dps fighting by herself is ~65, so only if you plan on not fighting with abigail does gestalt abigail actually become better.

I say this because I think gestalt abigail could probably deal a little more damage so that she lightly beats shadow abigail in purely single target scenarios, for now she's only better if you plan on not fighting with abigail, which could be quite funny having gestalt abigail solo bosses. Otherwise you lose AoE damage for no gain. (Including gestalt abigial can't use the 'attack at' command for AoE dps)

I think blessed sisturn III could be revised, I think the original reason for the skill has been lost sight of. It's currently a 3 point investment for a net zero gain, she takes 1/2 damage but heals 1/2 the amount. You only benefit from using this skill if you planned to never heal her in the first place. The only other the skill does is reduce the volatility of abigail's health. 

Overall 3 great skill trees! Nice work and they're very fun to play!!

EDIT: 

Also add spirit vessel to the 1st grave skill not the 2nd one please thank you because the ghosts don't attack anymore and so the 1st skill is useless ;c

Thank you for the test, but I would like to ask, under the influence of the Planar Entity, how much would this data change?

[kroban]

Damn, still no Walter stuff... I know the team in charge of his skill tree is working hard and all that, hopefully he will get some big improvements to his kit and Woby. But it's been three months since the beta started, and he still doesn't have a definitive version of his skill tree. Ngl, it's getting worrisome, and I really hope his changes don’t just get dropped at the last second with no chance for any feedback or tweaks...

[IDreamerI]

Wortox-Personally, I don't like the fact in the wortox skill tree that to use Shadow or Moon Skills, you literally have to go through the game almost twice (it's not hard for me, of course), as well as use endgame stuff.I mean, the game is played not only by sweaty Traihards winning for Wes in solo, but also by ordinary people having fun with friends or with other random people. I think it would be more fun if Vortex didn't have a strict attachment to the objects of one side or the other, or at least added items or ways to use the abilities of the Moon or Shadows at the beginning of the game.

Walter-Overall, I like the idea that he'll upgrade his slingshot and also be able to create special ammo, and he'll be able to at least half use shadow skills at the beginning, but I absolutely dislike what's being done with wobi, the skills involved are completely useless (in my opinion, which is sad).Instead of adding skills to interact with her and her possible abilities, they've added skills to enhance her stats that players almost never use, so you'll also have to choose which ones to use., and which ones don't.(There is a Bifalo that covers, if not all, then almost all the skills of the wobi), and only the search for objects is useful for something.

Wendy-Well, rejoice Wendy mainers, your gameplay has become many times more interesting and multifaceted.You can command your sister, Turn her into a shadow or a gestalt, Drink potions brewed by you, create your own cemetery with friendly neighbors, and resurrect allies for change.In general, imba, give me two. Only shadow skills are questionable, and I don't like the Gestalt sister (well, that's subjective))))))))))))

Thank you for your attention, I'm sorry for my English.

[Walrusst]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

Walter stuff IS coming. The last couple updates has had Wendy stuff, so it might look like it's superseding Walter stuff. That is not the case. Walter's tree has been worked on in parallel. The Walter stuff will come to the Beta when it is ready.

Its all good, take your time and have fun making something you are proud of.

[Guille6785]

end this torture already

[Jakeyosaurus]

5 minutes ago, Yaorin yon said:

Thank you for the test, but I would like to ask, under the influence of the Planar Entity, how much would this data change?

I didn't test this but I'm fairly sure Wendy with void gear would be substantially better than a beefalo:)