Enforcing Community Guidelines, and DST Not Being a Democracy

[SpiderSister]

There have been many complaints about Klei not listening to user suggestions in user updates with regard to the recent Beta update. While this is false, as the latest Wendy hotfix addressed none but concerns that appeared on this forum, let's ignore that for now.

Klei is a video game studio, and their job is to make video games. With Don't Starve (Together) being a relatively popular game, one can say that they're quite good at that, even if they could be better.

Klei is very active in their engagement with the community, at least on the forums, as demonstrated by the numerous hotfixes for the current beta, that repeatedly addressed issues raised here.

This absolutely does not mean that Klei has to listen to every voice on the forums. They also cannot do that, because different people have contradictory opinions. It is their game, and what it looks like is, in its entirety, their decision. Even if you don't like it.

Many of the recent complaints, contained slander, threats and accusations of racism or favoritism. They say that Klei does not listen to a certain group of people, demanding favoritism, they name specific developers, call them dictators, threaten to not support Klei by not getting skins, etc. I've also seen such posts and comments repeatedly from the same people, who apparently haven't been banned from the forums.

This truly makes me, and I'm sure also many others, dislike these forums. I've also seen people express on Reddit that the forums are a mess.

I hardly think that this is what Klei wants from their forums, and think that the forum rules should be enforced more strongly, in accordance with this post by JoeW, so that instead of seeing many aggressive and non-topical posts, we could actually see posts talking about the beta in a civil manner.

Note that while this post doesn't relate directly to the beta, it relates to the current state of mostly the beta forums, and there is no current forum for forum-related discussion.

 

[Steorra]

So then, I'm definitely trapped in a branch which called as "accusation branch" now.

I hope the original poster was one of Klei official member but not a randomly passersby.

 

(This was not off topic but just for clarifying if this branch was intended for collecting feedbacks or accusations, and if this OP was a voice of Klei officially or just a voice of a randomly passersby.)

[Catapult 2.0]

你好，请问你是哪位？这么看来是不是我也可以发一个社区规则了

当然可以封禁我们的言论，无视我们的所有建议，但我们有自己庞大的玩家交流社区（活跃用户数可能比论坛还多），在那边你们可没有控制舆论的能力哦，超过一半的玩家的购买力也在那边，而我们要的只是良好的反馈环境

[Peasant]

Lets ignore the flaws and disinformations of this for now. So people think that a company officially banning voices from certain regions is Right now? Must say that I'm impressed. What's next, supporting the use of certain words that commonly used just to attack others by their race or nationality?

[Echsrick]

this is never goin to end is it? no matter what one says someone out there will feel insulted for what ever reasons

[flamboyant wolf]

2 hours ago, YXukun said:

Lets ignore the flaws and disinformations of this for now. So people think that a company officially banning voices from certain regions is Right now? 

They said none of this.

2 hours ago, YXukun said:

What's next, supporting the use of certain words that commonly used just to attack others by their race or nationality?

Be serious.

[Dingle]

2 hours ago, Echsrick said:

this is never goin to end is it? no matter what one says someone out there will feel insulted for what ever reasons

It's just a strategy to silence people.

It is extremely transparent.

[DegenerateFurry]

44 minutes ago, Dingle said:

It's just a strategy to silence people.

It is extremely transparent.

The forum's guidelines don't allow you to go around insulting people. Believe me, I know, and it ultimately doesn't lead to anything productive anyway. Arguing with some people is just pointless and that's what the ignore function is for, but when you're addressing the developers, you need to be at least civil. Not only do they run this place and have the power to to take disciplinary action if you go too far, they're also the ones who actually decide what happens with the game - annoying them by calling them names will not get anyone what they want. 

The best way to get something changed in this game is to make a genuinely well thought-out and persuasive argument, address counter-arguments logically, and be persistent. If the developers agree with your logic, there's a good chance they'll implement it. I like to think the persistence of myself and other Warly players on pointing out that the Great Depths Worm should be always wet like normal Depths Worms had something to do with it being made always wet upon the conclusion of that beta; that was a sensible change that anyone could see the logic of if they were just made aware of the need for it.

You also have to keep your expectations reasonable and keep a level head when proposing changes - "delete this core part of a major update, I don't like it" is a childish demand, expecting the devs to throw away everything they've worked on just because a fraction of the userbase dislikes it. An ask that big usually comes from a place of anger, not from logic, and it ignores all the good parts, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Before people make threads, they should determine exactly what they think the problems are. In their thread, they should explain why they think they're problems, and ideally, they should propose ways to fix them. 

Everyone should feel free to provide useful feedback for the devs and to suggest their own ideas on how to improve the game, but this isn't Twitter (or whatever it's called now) - it's a game forum. There are standards for behavior, like there are in most parts of society. Calling the developers evil dictators and pretending they're out to get us helps nobody. It just causes pointless arguing that wastes everyone's time and makes the people who want certain changes look bad by association with the people who're allowing their frustration to completely overtake them and control their actions. 

TL;DR, you can make any point that you want, but be nice or at least neutral about it.

[YouKnowWho142]

12 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

The forum's guidelines don't allow you to go around insulting people. Believe me, I know, and it ultimately doesn't lead to anything productive anyway. Arguing with some people is just pointless and that's what the ignore function is for, but when you're addressing the developers, you need to be at least civil. Not only do they run this place and have the power to to take disciplinary action if you go too far, they're also the ones who actually decide what happens with the game - annoying them by calling them names will not get anyone what they want. 

The best way to get something changed in this game is to make a genuinely well thought-out and persuasive argument, address counter-arguments logically, and be persistent. If the developers agree with your logic, there's a good chance they'll implement it. I like to think the persistence of myself and other Warly players on pointing out that the Great Depths Worm should be always wet like normal Depths Worms had something to do with it being made always wet upon the conclusion of that beta; that was a sensible change that anyone could see the logic of if they were just made aware of the need for it.

You also have to keep your expectations reasonable and keep a level head when proposing changes - "delete this core part of a major update, I don't like it" is a childish demand, expecting the devs to throw away everything they've worked on just because a fraction of the userbase dislikes it. An ask that big usually comes from a place of anger, not from logic, and it ignores all the good parts, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Before people make threads, they should determine exactly what they think the problems are. In their thread, they should explain why they think they're problems, and ideally, they should propose ways to fix them. 

Everyone should feel free to provide useful feedback for the devs and to suggest their own ideas on how to improve the game, but this isn't Twitter (or whatever it's called now) - it's a game forum. There are standards for behavior, like there are in most parts of society. Calling the developers evil dictators and pretending they're out to get us helps nobody. It just causes pointless arguing that wastes everyone's time and makes the people who want certain changes look bad by association with the people who're allowing their frustration to completely overtake them and control their actions. 

TL;DR, you can make any point that you want, but be nice or at least neutral about it.

I wish more people thought like this here, it is heartbreaking seeing everyone turn on each other and Klei. The skill tree is how it is now because they wanted to incorporate the visions of the community but when so many ideas are mishmashed no single vision is being perfectly realized, which is what I believe is resulting in so much dissatisfaction. There is no feasible way to release a Wendy skill tree that isn't controversial because even if the skill tree is made perfectly to one person's taste there will be a large number of people who disagree.

Also, hot take, it's natural for the people on the forum to be the most vocal, even with the original Wendy skill tree after a few tweaks and changes I doubt the majority of the playerbase would've been too bothered by it, at worst it's the same character everyone already likes but a little better. Thank you for the levelheaded response DegenerateFurry

[Echsrick]

11 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

The forum's guidelines don't allow you to go around insulting people. Believe me, I know, and it ultimately doesn't lead to anything productive anyway. Arguing with some people is just pointless and that's what the ignore function is for, but when you're addressing the developers, you need to be at least civil. Not only do they run this place and have the power to to take disciplinary action if you go too far, they're also the ones who actually decide what happens with the game - annoying them by calling them names will not get anyone what they want. 

The best way to get something changed in this game is to make a genuinely well thought-out and persuasive argument, address counter-arguments logically, and be persistent. If the developers agree with your logic, there's a good chance they'll implement it. I like to think the persistence of myself and other Warly players on pointing out that the Great Depths Worm should be always wet like normal Depths Worms had something to do with it being made always wet upon the conclusion of that beta; that was a sensible change that anyone could see the logic of if they were just made aware of the need for it.

You also have to keep your expectations reasonable and keep a level head when proposing changes - "delete this core part of a major update, I don't like it" is a childish demand, expecting the devs to throw away everything they've worked on just because a fraction of the userbase dislikes it. An ask that big usually comes from a place of anger, not from logic, and it ignores all the good parts, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Before people make threads, they should determine exactly what they think the problems are. In their thread, they should explain why they think they're problems, and ideally, they should propose ways to fix them. 

Everyone should feel free to provide useful feedback for the devs and to suggest their own ideas on how to improve the game, but this isn't Twitter (or whatever it's called now) - it's a game forum. There are standards for behavior, like there are in most parts of society. Calling the developers evil dictators and pretending they're out to get us helps nobody. It just causes pointless arguing that wastes everyone's time and makes the people who want certain changes look bad by association with the people who're allowing their frustration to completely overtake them and control their actions. 

TL;DR, you can make any point that you want, but be nice or at least neutral about it.

i dont think he means klei is transparent of silince but the other forum users

[SpiderSister]

6 hours ago, Stardust42 said:

   Womp womp, Dolores

 

4 hours ago, YXukun said:

Lets ignore the flaws and disinformations of this for now. So people think that a company officially banning voices from certain regions is Right now? Must say that I'm impressed. What's next, supporting the use of certain words that commonly used just to attack others by their race or nationality?

@JoeW I cannot currently report people. I can only assume that is because of either a bug or of my relatively few posts here.

Please see this as a report of the two posts quoted in here, for personal attacks and for baseless accusations of disinformation and outright racism.

[Echsrick]

3 minutes ago, SpiderSister said:

 

@JoeW I cannot currently report people. I can only assume that is because of either a bug or of my relatively few posts here.

Please see this as a report of the two posts quoted in here, for personal attacks and for baseless accusations of disinformation and outright racism.

even if you click the ... up right in a meassage?

 

[SpiderSister]

Just now, Echsrick said:

even if you click the ... up right in a meassage?

 

Yes.

[Wendyskill]

Why is it considered a threat to declare as a player that you will no longer purchase skins?

为什么玩家告知不再购买皮肤会被视为一种威胁？

I may got mine, but you'll all got yours, and Klei will got theirs.It's karma. Honey.

或许我得到了我应得的，那你就得到了你应得的。Klei也会是。这是karma。亲爱的。

But you keep shifting the conflict between players and developers to the conflict between players, which is uncomfortable.

但你把玩家与开发者间的矛盾不停转移到玩家之间矛盾的说法，让人不适。

Do you all have this double standard? Klei ruined Lunar New Year for all Chinese gamers and someone told me to ruin developer's weekend?

你们都这么双重标准吗？Klei摧毁了所有中国玩家的农历新年，而有人却告知我毁了开发人员的周末？

2024年以来的所有糟糕更新和恶性Bug，你们才是制造好评信息茧房的那一群人，看看你们干的吧，哦Klei正在努力，哦Klei正在听取意见，哪怕Klei摧毁了所有中国玩家本应该最快乐的中国农历新年。

去看看Rednote 吧，你们生活中被资本操纵，娱乐项目上还要继续为资本说话。真可怜。

I feel so sorry for you. Take a look at Rednote, you are being manipulated by capital in your lives, and continue to speak for capital in your entertainment projects. What a shame.

 

[gaymime]

38 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

even if you click the ... up right in a meassage?

 

new users have pretty limited options. not surprising that reporting is restricted(helps with report-spamming for sure)

[Well-met]

I agree with your post except the "DST not being a democracy" (??)

[AliceShiki]

3 hours ago, Well-met said:

I agree with your post except the "DST not being a democracy" (??)

Well, it isn'. Game devs can ask for feedback, but they make the final decisions. All that players can do is give feedback, and that's by design.

So yeah, it's not a democracy. Players can't vote on anything, it's just the devs listening and doing what they think is best.

[Dr. Safety]

I swear, Wendy is never gonna get any new content again 

[Mr Giggio]

6 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

The forum's guidelines don't allow you to go around insulting people. Believe me, I know, and it ultimately doesn't lead to anything productive anyway. Arguing with some people is just pointless and that's what the ignore function is for, but when you're addressing the developers, you need to be at least civil. Not only do they run this place and have the power to to take disciplinary action if you go too far, they're also the ones who actually decide what happens with the game - annoying them by calling them names will not get anyone what they want. 

The best way to get something changed in this game is to make a genuinely well thought-out and persuasive argument, address counter-arguments logically, and be persistent. If the developers agree with your logic, there's a good chance they'll implement it. I like to think the persistence of myself and other Warly players on pointing out that the Great Depths Worm should be always wet like normal Depths Worms had something to do with it being made always wet upon the conclusion of that beta; that was a sensible change that anyone could see the logic of if they were just made aware of the need for it.

You also have to keep your expectations reasonable and keep a level head when proposing changes - "delete this core part of a major update, I don't like it" is a childish demand, expecting the devs to throw away everything they've worked on just because a fraction of the userbase dislikes it. An ask that big usually comes from a place of anger, not from logic, and it ignores all the good parts, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Before people make threads, they should determine exactly what they think the problems are. In their thread, they should explain why they think they're problems, and ideally, they should propose ways to fix them. 

Everyone should feel free to provide useful feedback for the devs and to suggest their own ideas on how to improve the game, but this isn't Twitter (or whatever it's called now) - it's a game forum. There are standards for behavior, like there are in most parts of society. Calling the developers evil dictators and pretending they're out to get us helps nobody. It just causes pointless arguing that wastes everyone's time and makes the people who want certain changes look bad by association with the people who're allowing their frustration to completely overtake them and control their actions. 

TL;DR, you can make any point that you want, but be nice or at least neutral about it.

T H A N K   Y O U 

[YouKnowWho142]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

I'm personally kind of disappointed JoeW decided to allow the brigaders to voice their opinions instead of dealing with brigaders the way you're supposed to, that decision just made the entire forums environment unpleasant and straight up unusable for normal people just wanting to give basic feedback 

I'm inclined to agree. I understand they want to keep the forums open for discussion and they don't have the most resources for moderation, but I am outright shocked by how much they've let happen in the forums. The forums could really use some moderations at a time like this since it is most certainly discouraging a lot of people from sharing their opinions and participating in discussions

[Dingle]

30 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

since it is most certainly discouraging a lot of people from sharing their opinions and participating in discussions

That's the goal.

[Y0sH]

3 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

I'm inclined to agree. I understand they want to keep the forums open for discussion and they don't have the most resources for moderation, but I am outright shocked by how much they've let happen in the forums. The forums could really use some moderations at a time like this since it is most certainly discouraging a lot of people from sharing their opinions and participating in discussions

It's annoying to attempt to have a Wortox discussion then immediately be bombarded by "Wortox is OP and Wendy's not", "Woodie can turn into a moose and is too strong and Wendy can't", "Wendy is bad because Wolfgang can do more damage" etc... 

I'll just go back to large consolidating posts closer to update day so Devs can maybe get some viability before the seemingly inevitable posting about how a particular character needs yet another buff pushes it from view.

[RexySeven]

1 hour ago, Y0sH said:

It's annoying to attempt to have a Wortox discussion then immediately be bombarded by "Wortox is OP and Wendy's not", "Woodie can turn into a moose and is too strong and Wendy can't", "Wendy is bad because Wolfgang can do more damage" etc... 

I'll just go back to large consolidating posts closer to update day so Devs can maybe get some viability before the seemingly inevitable posting about how a particular character needs yet another buff pushes it from view.

I think you perfectly summed up entire Wendy drama: "Wendy is bad because [character A] or [character B] is better than her". 

[Blue Tangerine]

I'm shocked by your blatant discrimination as well as your shamelessness,  your actions have made everything worse.