[Game Update] - 651259

[Soul7k]

On 1/23/2025 at 6:28 PM, WenericMember said:

Blessed Sisturn 3 Idle: (she flickers between a ghost and humanoid form).

Image from @Anthony_L3hr

I am going to be real honest I wish this was a skin we could keep permanently on her kind of like Ashley over Bernie. It is a cute detail tho. Maybe something that could be considered after the beta.

Edited January 28, 2025 by Soul7k

[Thieta]

Tbh I gotta say reading all the abigail and wendy hate is wild... There is a situation where both sides aren't happy.

There's people mad that she is getting a lot of attention, There are those mad that she isn't "Exactly" how they imagined the character.
In the end there's no resolution to this - As a Wendy and wurt main, I'm pretty happy with her current changes.

From the lense of an experienced player it's hard to understand that these skill trees are made in mind for both expert and noob players - And nothing is gonna be perfect, The amount of comments I read that say "Oh well a good 70% of her skill tree is good and amazing but they need to rework the useless skills".... We don't even have enough skill points to get everything so... just not pick those skills if you find them useless? It's a moot point, Not everything needs to be super good or absurdly strong in the skill tree - It should include stuff that is "Filler" or truly "Qol" Like having a good chance to get double the elixers.

Let's compare this to wurt's skill tree - Her Moon/Dark are both decent with Moon being the more picked up option since it can nullify insanity with boss fights. Dark is mainly picked for well... QoL tbh - You no longer have to feed the merms or have their gear break. She also has the reduce hunger thing for the king, Which imo is useless but I can understand FOR A NEW PLAYER why they would want that, Especially when they can't even pick the Dark/Moon options anyway.

I think the fact that they went through and heavily reworked wendy's skill tree in the first place put her in a really good spot and that needs to be acknowledged by the entire community. Devs listened to a lot of different feedback and even went so far as to make it so wendy doesn't "Dig up" graves with a shovel to move them around and instead "Invites" them using her new jar item. Overall I think the skill tree is fantastic - Could it use some more value tweaks? Sure, I'm not exact on the % for the double elixer but I think it should be a solid 40%+ chance so it happens more often than not.

Those that want them to add in an entirely new mini-game for wendy - Halfway through the skill tree - So she can get mourning glory a different way are asking for a lot.
Tho I do agree that they should make it so she can gain some passively over time, Especially with Wortox and his new soul jars... My idea would be Decorated graves will generate mourning glory around them at a passive rate, A small amount and by no means should it be able to replace doing pipspook quests if you need to get a lot in X amount of time. But 1 glory every 1-2 days per grave would be a great addition (Maybe more like every 4 ingame days to keep it balanced) Have it included with the grave skills, Easy.

In the end I think those asking for wendy to be removed from the beta is a stupid idea. Walter and Wortox are getting their tweaks and revamped. Noone's skill tree has completely "changed" a character's playstyle - So even if wendy wasn't in this skill update at all walter/wortox won't get new and amazing gameplay... That's a dumb notion.

They said walter and wortox are going to get their tweaks later, Wait for it. Ya'll ain't even letting them cook.

And lastly - If you truly think the most popular character in the game should deserve less time and not be looked at cause you want one of the MOST HATED characters (Walter) to get time when honestly you know damn well you don't play them... Is kinda wild to me. It makes sense one of the most popular characters is gonna have her skill tree a lot more tweaked than someone barely anyone plays. Wurt isn't even played that often and they did her skill tree pretty good! Is it perfect? No. Do I wish they did more? Yeah. Is what I wanted for a "dream wurt skill tree" reasonable? No but it would've been nice  lmao

Ya'll need to seriously just chill out.

[Well-met]

1 hour ago, Thieta said:

And lastly - If you truly think the most popular character in the game should deserve less time and not be looked at cause you want one of the MOST HATED characters (Walter) to get time when honestly you know damn well you don't play them... Is kinda wild to me.

it makes perfect sense to me.

also walter never had a refresh, wendy had one.

[kehun]

8 minutes ago, Well-met said:

it makes perfect sense to me.

also walter never had a refresh, wendy had one.

And her refresh was one of the best at that time

Edited January 28, 2025 by kehun

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, Thieta said:

And lastly - If you truly think the most popular character in the game should deserve less time and not be looked at cause you want one of the MOST HATED characters (Walter) to get time when honestly you know damn well you don't play them... Is kinda wild to me.

why on earth would you not prioritize improving the hated character

Edited January 28, 2025 by Guille6785

[gaymime]

1 hour ago, Thieta said:

And lastly - If you truly think the most popular character in the game should deserve less time and not be looked at cause you want one of the MOST HATED characters (Walter) to get time when honestly you know damn well you don't play them... Is kinda wild to me. It makes sense one of the most popular characters is gonna have her skill tree a lot more tweaked than someone barely anyone plays. Wurt isn't even played that often and they did her skill tree pretty good! Is it perfect? No. Do I wish they did more? Yeah. Is what I wanted for a "dream wurt skill tree" reasonable? No but it would've been nice  lmao

i am mostly with you but i think this part shows that you might not fully understand the point of refreshes and skilltrees.... it is not about making a good character the best character. it is about making characters more viable for people to play. if a character doesnt get used much then the character needs a lot more attention and shoring-up than one who gets a lot of play. this is why willow got amazing kit: she needed it to get more people to play her. walter needs more people to play him so he needs to get good kit. wendy does not need more people to play her, she already gets close to a third of all dst players at any given time; her kit was already really good. she doesnt need a bunch of extra stuff to make her on-par with the others but because she is popular and people are putting klei under a lot of pressure she is getting the kind of overhaul and attention anyway. she is getting the kind of work that would move walter up substantially in popularity just like wurt's did for her and willow's did for her and because he is fairly unpopular there is this idea that he is fine and shouldnt be allowed to be given more than the minimum to get him out of the way.

 

 

also, as an added thing; i went back to playing walter on the main branch because i am the most excited to play him when the beta is over. i WANT to play him, i want to play him and i have talked to several people who want to play him.

Edited January 28, 2025 by gaymime
added unnessisary guff at the very end because i feel heated about it

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Thieta said:

And lastly - If you truly think the most popular character in the game should deserve less time and not be looked at cause you want one of the MOST HATED characters (Walter) to get time when honestly you know damn well you don't play them... Is kinda wild to me. It makes sense one of the most popular characters is gonna have her skill tree a lot more tweaked than someone barely anyone plays. Wurt isn't even played that often and they did her skill tree pretty good! Is it perfect? No. Do I wish they did more? Yeah. Is what I wanted for a "dream wurt skill tree" reasonable? No but it would've been nice  lmao

If there's something impressive about this beta it's how many insanely bad takes it's bred this logic is like if they discarded reap what you sow because farming was unpopular.

2 hours ago, Thieta said:

Noone's skill tree has completely "changed" a character's playstyle - So even if wendy wasn't in this skill update at all walter/wortox won't get new and amazing gameplay... That's a dumb notion.

Also noone's requested this to my knowledge.

[WeWoWa]

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

 

also walter never had a refresh, wendy had one.

Hmm, maybe because Walter was a new character so he didn’t get a rework since just like other new characters he didn’t need one?

[Thieta]

Quote

3 hours ago, gaymime said:

i am mostly with you but i think this part shows that you might not fully understand the point of refreshes and skilltrees.... it is not about making a good character the best character. it is about making characters more viable for people to play. if a character doesnt get used much then the character needs a lot more attention and shoring-up than one who gets a lot of play. this is why willow got amazing kit: she needed it to get more people to play her. walter needs more people to play him so he needs to get good kit. wendy does not need more people to play her, she already gets close to a third of all dst players at any given time; her kit was already really good. she doesnt need a bunch of extra stuff to make her on-par with the others but because she is popular and people are putting klei under a lot of pressure she is getting the kind of overhaul and attention anyway. she is getting the kind of work that would move walter up substantially in popularity just like wurt's did for her and willow's did for her and because he is fairly unpopular there is this idea that he is fine and shouldnt be allowed to be given more than the minimum to get him out of the way.

 

That is not at all what I meant - I had to take a step back and I can see how it can come off that way though. I was just really pointing out all the walter support right now when a lot of people really don't play him and what people expect from his skill tree might be asking way too much for klei. I love what they did with wurt, Personally, I loved playing her before the tree and her tree + merm refresh makes it so much better (Seriously, Having merms plow your plots is like the greatest to me lol)

Admittingly part of it was written in annoyance and thus came off a bit short sighted, Lot of people are just complaining and providing nothing of value. I do think walter should get more time to cook and become a better character - But the reality is due to his current popularity he isn't going to recieve asmuch of a tuning as someone like Wendy is getting rightnow

I never said walter doesn't deserve the extra attention or that he isn't allowed, Just want to clarify that... But the reality is the more popular characters gets more attention, Skins, etc done to them and this is just true for every single game there is. Champs in league in the game for 5+ years will have 2 skins while someone with the same timeframe got 30 lol, Operators in bf or delta force, Characters in dst. It's just an indisputable fact that they are gonna prioritize their breadwinner...

As someone who mains wurt and was hella excited for her skill tree, I hope walter players get close to what they want (Trust me I wish they added a few certain things to wurts kit lol) and klei gives him the more attention he needs but it's a process - We have seen what they are releasing for wendy aside for some small tweaks probably - Let them cook on walter and see what happens before everyone is hitting their pitchforks again on wendy - Atp I feel like if they so much as tweak something on wendy's skilltree people are gonna be mad cause they can use that time on walter/wortox and it's like... yeah but end of the day you know you ain't gonna play walter... It's just people complaining that wendy is getting the attention instead of people who actually have good idea's and input for walter... all I see is "omg wendy again?" and no other positive input - In comparison, Strangely enough, Wendy had a lot of people writing entire paragraphs on how they should change up her skilltree and character...

To end it - Maybe wendy got such a more comprehensive rework due to all the people providing genuine good commentary and opinions on how they can change up her kit instead of just complaining? If so we should change the conversation from "Stop working on wendy" to "Walter's skill should be changed like X" Ofc the wendy stuff had complaints too but when they complained on her skills/character they provided multiple solutions - I have not seen much of any of that for walter.

[gaymime]

1 hour ago, Thieta said:

That is not at all what I meant - I had to take a step back and I can see how it can come off that way though. I was just really pointing out all the walter support right now when a lot of people really don't play him and what people expect from his skill tree might be asking way too much for klei. I love what they did with wurt, Personally, I loved playing her before the tree and her tree + merm refresh makes it so much better (Seriously, Having merms plow your plots is like the greatest to me lol)

Admittingly part of it was written in annoyance and thus came off a bit short sighted, Lot of people are just complaining and providing nothing of value. I do think walter should get more time to cook and become a better character - But the reality is due to his current popularity he isn't going to recieve asmuch of a tuning as someone like Wendy is getting rightnow

I never said walter doesn't deserve the extra attention or that he isn't allowed, Just want to clarify that... But the reality is the more popular characters gets more attention, Skins, etc done to them and this is just true for every single game there is. Champs in league in the game for 5+ years will have 2 skins while someone with the same timeframe got 30 lol, Operators in bf or delta force, Characters in dst. It's just an indisputable fact that they are gonna prioritize their breadwinner...

As someone who mains wurt and was hella excited for her skill tree, I hope walter players get close to what they want (Trust me I wish they added a few certain things to wurts kit lol) and klei gives him the more attention he needs but it's a process - We have seen what they are releasing for wendy aside for some small tweaks probably - Let them cook on walter and see what happens before everyone is hitting their pitchforks again on wendy - Atp I feel like if they so much as tweak something on wendy's skilltree people are gonna be mad cause they can use that time on walter/wortox and it's like... yeah but end of the day you know you ain't gonna play walter... It's just people complaining that wendy is getting the attention instead of people who actually have good idea's and input for walter... all I see is "omg wendy again?" and no other positive input - In comparison, Strangely enough, Wendy had a lot of people writing entire paragraphs on how they should change up her skilltree and character...

To end it - Maybe wendy got such a more comprehensive rework due to all the people providing genuine good commentary and opinions on how they can change up her kit instead of just complaining? If so we should change the conversation from "Stop working on wendy" to "Walter's skill should be changed like X" Ofc the wendy stuff had complaints too but when they complained on her skills/character they provided multiple solutions - I have not seen much of any of that for walter.

ah, my apologies for misinterpreting. thankyou for clarifying. we have certainly seen a very different unfolding of events. we have also taken a fair bit away from our experiences with other games and how their devs handled this sort of brouhaha

 

the reason you haven't seen it is because it is getting buried. there have been lots of threads made about walter and peoples hopes/suggestions/experiences someone even made a collection thread with something like 130+ links;

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162795-walter-discussion-compilation-and-megathread-about-build-645651-on-dec-7/

 

 

[Thieta]

Aw snap alright, Thanks - I'll give this megathread a decent browsing tonight. 

I'm curious what people have come up with

[Chewabacca]

13 hours ago, Thieta said:

That is not at all what I meant - I had to take a step back and I can see how it can come off that way though. I was just really pointing out all the walter support right now when a lot of people really don't play him and what people expect from his skill tree might be asking way too much for klei. I love what they did with wurt, Personally, I loved playing her before the tree and her tree + merm refresh makes it so much better (Seriously, Having merms plow your plots is like the greatest to me lol)

Admittingly part of it was written in annoyance and thus came off a bit short sighted, Lot of people are just complaining and providing nothing of value. I do think walter should get more time to cook and become a better character - But the reality is due to his current popularity he isn't going to recieve asmuch of a tuning as someone like Wendy is getting rightnow

I never said walter doesn't deserve the extra attention or that he isn't allowed, Just want to clarify that... But the reality is the more popular characters gets more attention, Skins, etc done to them and this is just true for every single game there is. Champs in league in the game for 5+ years will have 2 skins while someone with the same timeframe got 30 lol, Operators in bf or delta force, Characters in dst. It's just an indisputable fact that they are gonna prioritize their breadwinner...

As someone who mains wurt and was hella excited for her skill tree, I hope walter players get close to what they want (Trust me I wish they added a few certain things to wurts kit lol) and klei gives him the more attention he needs but it's a process - We have seen what they are releasing for wendy aside for some small tweaks probably - Let them cook on walter and see what happens before everyone is hitting their pitchforks again on wendy - Atp I feel like if they so much as tweak something on wendy's skilltree people are gonna be mad cause they can use that time on walter/wortox and it's like... yeah but end of the day you know you ain't gonna play walter... It's just people complaining that wendy is getting the attention instead of people who actually have good idea's and input for walter... all I see is "omg wendy again?" and no other positive input - In comparison, Strangely enough, Wendy had a lot of people writing entire paragraphs on how they should change up her skilltree and character...

To end it - Maybe wendy got such a more comprehensive rework due to all the people providing genuine good commentary and opinions on how they can change up her kit instead of just complaining? If so we should change the conversation from "Stop working on wendy" to "Walter's skill should be changed like X" Ofc the wendy stuff had complaints too but when they complained on her skills/character they provided multiple solutions - I have not seen much of any of that for walter.

gaymime beat me to pointing you in the right direction for Walter suggestions that have been made, but I wanted to add: it would probably be best to think of this as more of a social problem than a game problem, if that makes any sense. From day 1 of this beta, there have been certain Wendy players who were pretty intense about her skill tree: we're talking literal gaslighting (as in the kind where you try to convince someone that they have mental problems), attempts at smearing, calling for devs to be fired and comparing them to psychopaths, accusing people of having NPD or hating depressed people or shilling for Big Capital because they thought that Wendy shouldn't be able to easily keep Abigail alive all of the time or have Abigail fight shadow creatures. This is of course not Wendy's fault, and I know a bunch of people who I even like who play her. I want them to have a good experience. But it does mean that bitterness builds up over time and people get angry to the point of not being able to trust that others are making suggestions in good faith and not just to overbuff a character. It's one thing to know that the devs are probably going to try hard for a popular character, it's another thing to be told (not referring to your comment) by other players that their character's skill tree is the most important and the tree of your character should come second to theirs. It's also kind of funny to hear that right now it generally looks like nonstop "why isn't Walter & Wortox's tree as good as Wendy's", because for a while there the dominant tone was "Wortox's tree is perfect, why can't Wendy's designers do as good a job?" Real 'when you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you' hours.

This is not to say that the "well they started it" defense works. People do need to chill, a lot, especially with the xenophobia (no, some people being annoying doesn't mean it's okay to call everyone who doesn't translate their native language into English ignorant. No, don't clog up the forum with troll posts), and I don't think that it's reasonable to say that Wendy's skill tree getting a hotfix means that it's sucking resources out of Walter or Wortox. But the main source is different, I think: it's frustration with the forums combined with Wortox's tree kind of being a ? as to whether or not it's getting any updates that leads people to start pointing the pitchforks at Wendy, not frustration over the delay for the other two characters by itself.