Wes Skill Tree Concept

[Pruinae]

Hello, this is my take on the Wes skill tree.

Wes is in a weird spot, where some people see him as a challenge character, while others don't really think it is as much of as challenge as it is an inconvenience. As I see it, an experienced player won't really be challenged that much from a 0.75 damage multiplier or a -25% work efficacy debuff, it will just make it take longer to kill things and collect resources. The 75 in all stats at least makes for a more interesting challenge, making so you have to think about which food to make, due to foods that grant 75+ hunger not being as efficient.

Regarding his upsides: Regular Balloons are too bothersome to use as anything but decor; Speedy Balloons do their job well, but due to their low durability, some might find them too laborious to use; Party Balloons can be nice for group sanity, but playing with experienced players they would rather kill the creatures than stand still, and inexperienced ones are better off with flowers and a tent; if you are prepared enough to have an Inflatable Vest when you need it, you should have prepared another boat instead; and Balloon Hat is at least usable, but very very niche. His 25% tool efficiency is very interesting for something that was a byproduct of his reduced work efficacy.

Of course, his upsides being basically nonexistent is by design. But should Wes really be the joke character? I personally would prefer to have another character to actually play as.

Taking into consideration both the players that see him as a challenge character, and the players that like Wes for being Wes, I envisioned this skill tree.



The background was inspired by the fence Wes is seen performing in front of, in his short, along with the Tragedy and Comedy masks that represent the performing arts. The tree offers a lot of freedom of choice right away, without having any perks that are requisites for another, with the exception of the Affinity ones. This was made on purpose to allow the player to customize their experience depending on how much of a challenge they want.

The left ones forming the frowning face are the "Tragedy" perks, the right ones forming the smiling face are the "Comedy" perks, and in the middle we have the "Affinity" perks. To level a Comedy perk you require an insight point and a coin. Wes starts with one coin (because he is Wes), and he can get more by leveling Tragedy perks.

Affinity perks don't cost coins, only insight; And — unlike other characters — you can level the Affinity perks right away, without having to spend points on the rest of the tree to unlock. The regular "choose a side" and "kill the boss" shenanigans still apply.

If you choose to spend an insight point and your starting coin to level a Comedy perk right away, this is what you would see:

You would have to level a Tragedy perk in order to get more coins to spend on the Comedy ones.

Tragedy
I tried making perks that provide a challenge to the solo player, while benefiting a multiplayer setting. To me it seems contradictory to play a challenge character while collaborating with other people, as doing so makes that content exponentially easier. This approach also expands on what we saw on his animated short, having a "misfortune that brings fortune to others" theme. Perks that redirect threats, and perks that alter luck-based outcomes require Wes to be alive to remain active.

Spoiler

● Mime, Body and Soul
"Become immune to the health penalty. However, you can only be revived with the help of other survivors, the portal and touch stones. When another survivor revives you they get an extra 40 sanity."

Disables most revival methods, if you're playing solo you can only revive through the four naturally spawning touch stones. When playing with other players, you can do the same thing Wanda can do: Craft a telltale heart, die on purpose, and then let someone else revive you so they get 80 sanity (120 with this perk).

It is very much the "turn on hardcore mode" perk. Being able to revive through the portal is still allowed, because if you turn endless ON you're probably not looking for this kind of challenge anyway, so its nice to have the bonus of being immune to the health penalty in that case.

Should Touch Stones be replaced with Life Giving Amulets? This would make the perk be more punishing with early game deaths, but after you amass Life Giving amulets its punishment would diminish considerably, at which point you are probably in a stage of the game where the challenges provided have been diminished by progression anyway.


● Evil Eye
"A series of mishaps made the creatures of the constant wary of you. Creatures that are usually neutral now turn aggressive, and critters won't show themselves. Finding food while hunting them is far-fetched."

Birds and Butterflies won't spawn if a Wes with this perk is the source; Catcoons, Merms (except when king alive), Pigs, Bunnymen, and Beefalo are aggressive; Beefalos will buck you off instantly when you try to ride them; Pigs Wes kills will always drop Pig Skin, Bunnymen Bunny Puff, Spiders Silk (unless haunted), and Birds their Feather; Maximum chase time and range increased by 33% (Doesn't stack with Spring, but maybe it should); Wes' naughtiness threshold is always 31 (the lowest possible).

So, a summary: No healing from Butterflies, getting a Bird for a Bird Cage is a lot more difficult, breaking Pig Houses early on isn't as easy anymore, no Beefalo domestication, Krampus are more common, and all the weird range interactions with aggro range spring brings are always active.

However, you don't need to transform Pigs into Werepigs to guarantee the Pig Skin, always getting Silk has its upsides, and if you manage to get a Bird you will always get the feather. Can be relevant along with a Wickerbottom using Birds of the World to manually Krampus farm, since you spawn Krampus faster, and get a lot more feathers.


● Hapless Hunter
"Suspicious dirt piles you uncover are a lot more likely to lead to threats."

Increases the chances for a hunt surprise to 80%, regardless of the world's age.
Getting the vests is more difficulty, but making a War Saddle, and/or a Varg farm early is a lot easier.

While I think that is enough, a factor that could make this perk more undesirable is making so a Wes with this perk can find the Gingerbread Varg or Clay Varg even outside of events.


● Poisson D'Avril
"Its as if the Ocean is playing a prank on you. Increased chance to find threats when out at sea, fishes always have minimum weight and are randomized, and being wet makes everything incredibly slippery."

Fishes spawning due to a Wes with this perk will always be completely randomized, being able to spawn even out of place, season or events, and they will always have minimum weight. Rockjaw chance is increased to 20%. Gnarwail chance is increased to 20%. Pirate Raid odds increased to 40%. Tools on Wes hands are guaranteed to slip when he is Wet starting from 35 Wetness.

Bad if you want to explore the Ocean or go fishing for specific fish, good if you want Gnarwail and Pirate Raid loot. You get less Bootlegs since the Deep Bass will never be heavy. You might be able to get a Wurt an early Sunfish and/or Ice Bream. The perk still affects you outside the Ocean due to the being wet part.


● Dramaturgy
"Embrace the drama and let out your performative side: Getting hit provokes a dramatic performance, spurring nearby survivors into action. However, your melancholic acting makes shadows more eager to oppress you. Empathize with nearby survivors afflicted with insanity."

When hit realize a dramatic performance that makes other survivors nearby receive a 20% speed boost. Crawling Horrors that would spawn due to Wes' insanity are replaced by Terror Beaks. When someone is insane near Wes, the Shadow Creatures will go for Wes after doing their screech (similar to his innate perk with Hounds after barking), regardless of if Wes is at full sanity. If Wes kills someone else's Shadow Creature, the sanity goes to the person that made it spawn instead of Wes. 

One of the few things that can actually threaten an experienced player are situations where two Terror Beaks are involved, this perk would make those situations come into play a lot more often. There has been a lot of times where I wanted to help someone kill their Shadow Creatures, but instead I would just end up stealing the sanity gain from killing one. This perk would solve that issue.

Credits to @Picklesaurus, who has given a suggestion similar to this in another post.


● Magnetic Personality
"Natural phenomena such as lightning, meteors, and earthquakes seem to have a vendetta against you."

Lightning strikes spawned on the overworld will always go for Wes if he is on the shard. Surrounding Meteors target Wes directly. Falling debris in the cavern that are supposed to spawn within other survivors close proximity spawn on Wes instead if he is on the shard. All of the debris that is supposed to spawn on Wes' surroundings always spawn in his close surroundings. Antlion will always target Wes (and only Wes). Lightning spawned from Wickerbottom's The End is Nigh!, and the special lightning spawned from the Moonstorm will not be redirected by this perk.

Very "animated short"-like. Can be used to your advantage, you could use the Meteors focused on you to kill the nearby Tallbirds for example.


● Clown to Earth
"Embrace your misfortune in matters of the earth. Your interactions with nature and graves are more likely to be negative. In turn, allies' are more likely to be positive."

If grass geckos are able to spawn, they will. Same chance to spawn Treeguards as Woodie, and will always spawn the maximum amount regardless of the world's age. When planting with random seeds, chance to get forget-me-lots increased to 80%; But other survivors planting random seeds will never get weeds (this effect is global). Graves dug by Wes always give trinkets and spawn a ghost. However, if Wes is near but another character is the one digging the grave, a ghost will spawn aggroed onto Wes and the grave will never give trinkets, only the other loot.

I decided to include grass geckos due to their jump scare nature, the regular chance is low but every character can get it easily with the shovel method, so Wes being guaranteed is not that big of a deal. Tree guards for living logs is good, but three at the same time with a 0.75 damage modifier can complicate things. Greater Forget-Me-Lots chance makes starting a farm more difficult, however the perk can make this the opposite when other players are present, and can be a good thing if you actually want the Forget-Me-Lots. You get to manipulate grave loot with the help of other players.

Is always spawning the maximum amount of tree guards too much?

Credits to @Swiyss, who has given a suggestion similar to this in another post.


● Clown Jewels
"Embrace your misfortune when dealing with treasure troves. Treasure-based interactions are unlikely to wield you good results, but allies' odds are improved."

The part that impacts other players has global range, unless stated otherwise.
○ Sunken Chests opened by Wes will have its treasure always grant the least quantity of items per stack possible, but ones opened by another survivor will always have the most.
○ Tumbleweeds opened by Wes can only contain grass, twigs, and creatures. Tumbleweeds opened by another survivor while Wes is near will never contain grass and twigs, and if creatures spawn from that tumbleweed, they spawn aggro'd on Wes.
○ Loot Stash opened by Wes will never contain the % drops. But ones opened by another survivor have 20% chance for Krampus sack, guaranteed extra Life Giving Amulet, and guaranteed extra boss loot.
○ Ancient Guardians killed while only Wes is nearby will have its treasure always grant the least quantity of items per stack possible. But one killed while another survivor is present will always have the most.
○ Labyrinth Chests opened by Wes always activate their trap and have the lowest possible modifier, while for other survivors the trap always proccs but with the highest possible modifier.

Bad if solo, great if with other players. Maybe the effect should affect what items can be found in the chests, instead of only stack quantity?


● No Dice
"Embrace your misfortune when dealing with opposition. Enemies you kill are less likely to drop especial loot, while enemies killed by allies have their odds enhanced."

If an enemy last hit by Wes has a % drop and it succeeds, it is rerolled and the new result persists. The opposite is true for other survivors, if the % drop fails it is rerolled and the new result persists. This effect is global.

Some of the % loot that comes to mind: Message in a Bottle, Tam o' Shanter, Walrus Tusk, Krampus Sack, Butter, Bat Wing. But there are a lot more.

Alternatively, the perk could make so Wes is never able to drop the % loot. This would challenge solo Wes' with this perk to adapt into a gameplay style without access to those drops. I personally think that might be too harsh, this might already be the perk with the biggest negative of the Tragedy branch.

Would be really cool if the loot-related perks had a little animation like a four leaf clover shining when something was rerolled into a success, or a four leaf clover decaying when something was rerolled into failure.


● Target Audience
"Enemies that attack periodically seem to have a vendetta against you."

○ When Hound/Worm waves occur, if a Wes with this perk is on the shard Wes will get the waves of up to three other survivors, and if it is a Great Depths Worm it will be guaranteed to go for Wes. All of the hounds redirected this way are special Hounds.
○ Varglets are unable to spawn for Wes, being replaced with 5 special Hounds.
○ Every Hound that spawns for Wes is always a special Hound.
○ If Wes is alone on a server, time between Hounds that are spawned in the same wave is reduced.
○ Eye of Terror/Twins of Terror will always choose to go for Wes.
○ 50% of the Frogs from Frog Rain meant for other survivors are redirected to Wes instead.
○ Bearger and Deerclops will always choose to go for Wes.

If you're solo, all of the redirection doesn't affect you. Can be extremely helpful while playing with beginners. Having all hounds be replaced with special Hounds can make killing them a little more complicated, but they have less HP and you get gems for your effort.

Comedy
My objective in this branch was to strengthen Wes current upsides into things that you would actually want to use, and to give him more engaging gameplay aspects.

Spoiler

● Expert Haggler
"Use your mime charm to obtain good deals when trading."

○ Queen of Moon Quay removes 6 trinkets instead of 4 when given a banana.
○ Pig King grants 1.5x more gold.
○ Receive a 50% discount in the Prize Booth and Benevolent Rabbit King crafts.
○ Frost Jaw will give 2 bootlegs per small fish and 3 per heavy fish.
○ Antlion gives 2 desert stones instead of one.
○ Crabby Hermit trades that cost one bottle give two items instead of one, the ones that cost more have a 50% discount rounded up in favor of Pearl (Penny-pinching!).

This one is based on his sequence-breaking The Gorge perk. I was so happy when Wes was meta!


● Living Statue
"After standing still for 3 seconds, perform as a living statue, escaping hostile creatures' perception. "

After standing still for 3 seconds, drop enemy aggro and get a hiding state similar to Bush Hat's/Snurtle Shell. Taking damage resets the timer, but won't cancel hiding (it is a incredibly believable performance!).

Can be very powerful, especially if used in tandem with some Tragedy perks. I think the overall silliness, and the street performance vibe fits Wes incredibly well.

Credits to @Picklesaurus, who has given this suggestion another post.


● Pantomimed Rope
"Pantomime a rope to pull items towards you."

Allows Wes to pull items on the screen towards him, this allows him to pull items out of the Ocean, through walls, and out of Cave Holes. To use the perk, right click an item that is on the ground/water while having nothing equipped in your hand slot.

I don't know how the controls would work on controller, they really need the shipwrecked aim system lol. To circumvent this, maybe instead Wes can craft pantomimed rope and then use this new item to pull things. Equip it and use the secondary action button so Wes starts the lasso throw animation, the lasso goes ahead in the air towards the direction you are facing. You can make it fall down on top of an item by pressing the secondary action again, at which point Wes would pull the item automatically. But I really would like to avoid this route, as having to use an empty inventory slot for pantomimed things is too hilarious not to be a thing. 

Credits to @gaymime, who has given the foundation for this perk idea in another post.


● Pantomimed Tools
"Pantomime tools to collect resources."

While having an empty hand slot, you are able to chop, mine, hammer, and dig the respective resources.

This perk makes way too much sense not to be a thing. Extremely useful in the ruins, never have to walk half a map back to base because you forgot to bring a hammer to Bee Queen. Save resources on tools. Considering Wes gets the 25% work penalty, I think him getting access to this is only fair.

Credits to @Picklesaurus, who has given a suggestion similar to this in another post.


● Pantomimed Walls
"Learn to pantomime walls and doors."

This perk gives you the ability to craft Pantomimed Walls and Pantomimed Doors. At the cost of 10 sanity you can craft 4 walls or a door. They look like clear fine glass, and function similarly to fences and gates, but unlike fences they break in one hit and drop nothing. Dropping the unplaced wall/door version of the item makes it disappear instantly. They are fire-proof.

Wes' with this perk are able to see Pantomimed Walls and Doors regardless of distance, while ones without the perk — and other characters — only get to see these structures while they are within 2 walls of distance.

Very useful and very cheap, useful in any situation walls are. 

Credits to @Picklesaurus, who has given a suggestion similar to this in another post.


● Real-Mime Strategy
"Pantomime a barrier capable of parrying damage."

While having an empty hand slot, use your secondary action button on the ground (Wortox Soul Hop button on controller) to initiate a very brief parry. Missing a parry puts it into a X seconds cooldown. Successful parries can be animation cancelled into another parry.

I don't have numbers for this, but the general idea is being able to — with precise timing — parry attacks to reflect damage back to the attacker. I'd like it to have a duration short enough to make it difficult. With the animation cancelling, doing successful parries into other parries to block multi-hit attacks such as the ones coming from Tentacles, Armored Bearger, or the Celestial Champion second phase, would be possible and look really cool.

Probably not a perk you want to use on high latency, but there's plenty of other perk options for those situations.


● Balloon Glasses
"Learn to craft the Balloon Glasses. Lend it to allies to share your imagination, or use it yourself to enhance your vision!"

Costs 5 sanity to craft. 1 Day Durability. Getting hit with the glasses equipped makes them pop.
Can be equipped in the head slot to allow other survivors to see Wes' pantomimed structures regardless of distance, and allow a Wes with this perk to see and interact with hidden things, such as Shadow Creatures even when at full sanity, what item is a Mimic, Resting Horror, Rictus, Parasitic Shadelings, and Fuelweaver's Shadow Hands.

Allows you to kill Shadow Creatures before insanity becomes a problem, simplifies Mimic farming, no more having to get insane to get the Relic Chair blueprint, no need to have AoE to deal with Rictus, no need to drop sanity before the Nightmare Werepig fight, and can act as a Walmart Purple Amulet during the Fuelweaver fight. Well, at least as long as you don't let it pop, even then you could craft another one.

Credits to @Swiyss, who has given a suggestion similar to this in another post.


● Loud Balloons
"Your balloons scare enemies when popped. Learn to craft the Whistle Balloon, a balloon that annoys enemies into attacking the holder."

Any balloon when popped scares enemies in a turf radius for 3 seconds.

Learn to craft the Whistle Balloon. 5 sanity to craft. Lasts for half a day. If the holder is hit with it equipped, it pops.
Can be equipped in the hand slot to emit a whistle balloon sound (REALLY recommend the "Noisy Balloons" video on Youtube from the Grand Illusions channel if you are interested on what it could sound like lol, maybe not as obnoxious though), and pull the aggro from enemies within 3 turfs to the user.

Provides some crowd control to Wes. The whistle can be used to save someone or to save Wes himself, if used by others.

Credits to @Swiyss and @Picklesaurus, who have given a suggestion similar to this in other posts.


● Bundle o' Balloons
"Learn to craft the Bundle o' Balloons, it has enough balloons to make the holder float!"

Costs 30 sanity to craft. Lasts for 1 minute. Getting hit with it equipped pops the balloons.
Can be equipped in the hand slot to allow the holder to traverse the Ocean and the Cave Void. The holder cannot interact with the game world while it is equipped (collecting Kelp as an example). If dropped on the ground, the balloons disperse on the air and show up in the map, similar to the Speedy Balloon's current effect. Only one is allowed per inventory, if Wes tries to give it to someone already in the possession of one, he will do his "no no" mime animation. If Wes crafts one while already having one in the inventory, the Bundle o' Balloons will be dropped on the ground and disperse into the air as previously stated. If the bundle is popped, or its durability reaches 0 while the holder is above Ocean or Cave Void, they fall and the usual punishment is applied.

Has synergy with Inflatable Vest, if your Bundle o' Balloons ends while you are above the Ocean the vest will prevent health penalty from being applied.


● Breathing Technique
"Your balloons are more efficient and bring no harm to allies."

○ Regular Balloons deal 15 piercing damage.
○ Speedy Balloons last 3x longer. (Currently 1.5 segments for each 30%/20%/10% bonus, with the perk the balloon would last for 13.5 segments, nearly a day.)
○ Party Balloons deal 10 piercing damage and the confetti effect can now stack.
○ Inflatable Vest prevents dropping items on the water when drowning, working similarly to Wurt's swimming perk.
○ Balloon Hat no longer has durability.
○ Balloon Glasses no longer have durability.
○ Whistle Balloons last 2x longer (a day).
○ Bundle o' Balloons last 2x longer (2 minutes).
○ Balloons now cannot damage other survivors or loyal mobs.

Piercing damage can go through armor such as Slurtle/Snurtle's defenses. The enhanced damage with the added piercing effect makes the disabled friendly fire necessary, should Wes also be able to avoid the Balloons damage? Maybe the Party Balloons become overpowered being able to stack...

Credits to @Swiyss and @Picklesaurus, who have given a suggestion similar to this in other posts.

Affinity
Shadow

Spoiler

● Shadow Jester I
"The Queen will reward your loyalty by revealing secrets within the Umbralla. The Umbralla's barrier slows enemies within, provides protection against the weather, and can be activated even while held."

Umbralla's barriers activated by Wes' with this perk — beyond its usual effects — will also provide 240 insulation against both heat and cold, slow enemies in its range for 20%, and impede debris from cave earthquakes from falling within. Additionally, Wes can choose to activate the barrier while holding the Umbralla; the barrier will move along with him.

Keep in mind the sanity drain aura while the barrier is active. Should the barrier's range be reduced if it is activated while the Umbralla is being held? What brought me to this perk idea was Umbralla kind of looking like a balloon while the barrier is active, and Wes having a little umbrella in his default art.


● Shadow Jester II
"The Queen will reward your loyalty by adding flare to your performance on her stage."

When performing in Charlie's stage, an illusion is applied to Wes giving him the same appearance and max stats (Hunger/Sanity/Health) as another player currently online on the server. Wes' current stats % is equivalent to what it was before, and usual nametag still remains. The illusion lasts indefinitely and can block up to one hit, but will be dispelled after. When examining stuff Wes will still do his usual mimicry with no quotes. If there are no other players, then a random character is selected wearing the skins you have set. If transformed into Wurt, Webber, WX or Wortox, you get their tags. Both the items and briar hounds won't spawn, but the stage also won't enter cooldown.

Allows Wes to benefit from 150 hunger food, and to access the advantages of having more than 75 sanity. The same can't be said for health, since the illusion is dispelled upon being hit. I guess you could tank starvation and the weather for longer since those don't count as being hit? Slight synergy with WX, although no one uses the hunger or sanity circuits. An extra hit can make a big difference depending on your perk setup.

Moon

Spoiler

● Lunar Jester I
"Take inspiration from The Moon to learn how to turn Brightshade Bombs into Balloons that inflict tremendous planar damage upon bursting. While holding Brightshade Balloons, Wes becomes enlightened."

Takes a Brightshade Bomb and 5 sanity to craft.
Works the same as his regular balloons, but has same damage and properties as the Brightshade Bombs. Maybe could deal ~50 extra damage and/or have extra range?

Getting access to enlightenment can allow Wes to avoid Shadow Creatures and restore sanity through Gestalts, but keep in mind that it takes up the hand slot and is only available after rifts.


● Lunar Jester II
"Listen to Their voice to discover secrets within the dream realm. While asleep, assume control of an Astral Projection."

When asleep by any means, assume control of your Jestalt. This form has its own 15 slots inventory, can see in the dark, but cannot equip items. It can use all Pantomimic skills as long as they are leveled. When the Jestalt is dispelled, its items will drop and Wes is sent back to his body. The Jestalt is dispelled if hit or if Wes' body is hit, dies or wakes up. The form can be dispelled early by the user by clicking a button similar to the one that appears when reviving using a Meat Effigy. Wes will remain sleeping even after reaching 0 hunger, however the health restauration from sleeping is nullified and he takes starvation damage as normal; this means he would be able to be Jestalt for 2 minutes and 15 seconds, since starving deals 1.25 damage per second. The Jestalt attacks the same way as Gestalts (should it get i-frames on attack? probably not). Effects that induce sleep have its duration overridden to last indefinitely, and can be cut short earlier than usual by dispelling Jestalt through the button.

Should Jestalt be able to hover above the Ocean and Cave Void?

I will be honest, I could not resist the Jestalt pun. But hey, the skill is pretty cool, don't you think?

Secrets

Spoiler

Well, a font size 22 in bold isn't really secretive now, is it?

The idea behind these perks is to allow the player to fully commit to one of two identities Wes can have. He is a very talented performer, I am sure he could perform the "Challenge Character" role as easily as he can the "Cute Mime" role.

Let's start with the Joker perk.

This perk appears once the player has leveled all of the Tragedy branch perks.

A Shadow Hand comes and replaces the coin with a perk the player can choose to level.


● Joker
"All of your damage becomes planar. Successful parries now reflect extra planar damage. Become Immune to overheating and freezing. Become unable to benefit from planar defense, and armor is 50% less effective."

Having all your damage become planar works around Wes' 0.75 damage multiplier. The extra planar damage from parries should have very noticeable numbers considering the weakening of armor.

Taking into account you would need to spend 11 points total for this perk (10 from Tragedy + 1 for the perk itself), and have to deal with every Tragedy perk negatives, I think it is only fair for you to get something really cool from it. Especially considering the perk itself adds tremendous additional difficulty through the weakening of armor.

You can still use the remaining 4 insight points to level any Comedy and/or Affinity perks as you wish, even though you won't see the coin anymore.

Credits to @Swiyss, who has given a suggestion similar to this in another post.
_____

Now let us talk about the Le Jour des Crêpes perk.

This perk activates once at least 7 (lucky number!) Comedy perks have been invested in.

The coin shines and a perk icon is revealed within its surface! This works similarly to Wortox's Nice/Naughty alignment, in the sense that you don't need to spend insight to get its effects.


● Le Jour des Crêpes
"Eating Fresh Fruit Crepes allows you to benefit from your luck-based perks for a day."

Eating Fresh Fruit Crepes makes the perks "Clown to Earth", "Clown Jewels", and "No Dice" treat you as if your were another player for a day.

If you made sure to get at least 7 comedy perks, I believe you do not wish to play Wes as a challenge character, so you get access to this freebie. Inspired by the French tradition that takes place in "Le Jour des Crêpes", it involves placing a coin on top of a cooking crêpe while flipping it, ensuring financial prosperity in the coming year. Others hold a coin in their right hand during the flipping process for good luck.

It is mostly here to allow solo players to benefit from his luck perks. But the justice of making Wes' favorite food actually useful for him is also sweet. Maybe the benefits should be extended to every butter crockpot food? He is French after all.

Just noticed that in the example none of those perks have been invested in lol, get uhhh- January's fooled I guess?

Conclusion
I hope this concept would be able to allow the player to customize Wes into having their desired gameplay experience. He is a mime artist after all, being able to mime his way into the role you want him to be is only right.

Let me know your feedback, did you find something that would impede Wes from progressing in the game? Do you think something suggested would be too overpowered? You are welcome to express your opinions and concerns below.

If I forgor to/just didn't give credit to you, and you want said credits, please let me know (with proof preferably). I can also remove credits I gave you, if it bothers you in any way, no problem.

Edit History

Spoiler

This is here to help me keep track of the changes, feel free to skip it.

1/21/2025
Added credits to @Picklesaurus on several perks, it is such a same the search function in the forum disregards archived posts. While making this concept, I tried searching for previous Wes' skill trees and was unable to find any. Thank you for letting me know about your concepts Picklesaurus!

1/18/2025 
A thank you to @Swiyss, who made me reflect on the effects of a lot of the perks and pointed out some edge cases where exceptions to the functionality of some should be made. And a thank you to @NekoSoulx, who pointed out how I should clarify Wes should be alive for the perks to work, and that luck perks should be global, because otherwise they would take away from the Wes' player gameplay.

● Changed "Speedy Balloons durability is too short to give substantial benefit" into "Speedy Balloons do their job well, but due to their low durability, some might find them too laborious to use"
● Added "Perks that redirect threats, and perks that alter luck-based outcomes require Wes to be alive to remain active." to the Tragedy perks explanation.
● Added a new afterthought to Mime, Body and Soul's description: "Should Touch Stones be replaced with Life Giving Amulets? This would make the perk be even more punishing with early game deaths, but after you amass Life Giving amulets its punishment would diminish considerably, at which point you are probably in a stage of the game where the challenges provided have been diminished by progression anyway."
● Revised Hapless Hunter's effect: "Suspicious dirt piles you uncover will never lead to a Koalephant." into "are a lot more likely to lead to threats", "Simple, you cannot get the vests, but you have an easier time making a War Saddle, and/or a Varg farm earlier." into "Getting the vests is more difficulty, but making a War Saddle, and/or a Varg farm early is a lot easier."
 ● Replaced Dramaturgy's speed debuff effect with a new effect: "Embrace the drama and let out your performative side, allowing you and other survivors to more easily get in tune" "Getting hit provokes a dramatic performance, slowing you down while spurring nearby survivors into action", "When hit get slowed by 20% to realize a dramatic performance". Added: "However, your melancholic acting makes shadows more eager to oppress you", "Crawling Horrors that would spawn due to Wes' insanity are replaced by Terror Beaks."
● Added "Lightning spawned from Wickerbottom's The End is Nigh!, and the special lightning spawned from the Moonstorm will not be redirected by this perk." to Magnetic Personality's description.
● Changed Clown to Earth's description and effect slightly: "In turn, nearby allies' are more likely to be positive", "Survivors planting random seeds near Wes will never get weeds" into "But other survivors planting random seeds will never get weeds (this effect is global)."
● Altered Clown Jewels' description, removing the guaranteed Surprising Seed and making several of the effects global: "but nearby allies' odds are improved". Added "The part that impacts other players has global range, unless stated otherwise."
● Changed No Dice's description to make its effect global: "while enemies killed by nearby allies have their odds enhanced", "The opposite is true for other nearby survivors, if the % drop fails it is rerolled and the new result persists." Added "This effect is global."

[Y0sH]

... This.. this is incredible. This is easily the best Skilltree I've seen created in the forums!

[Cuernito.]

I think you are overthinking about all this, Wes is just a joke and even klei made him that way, remember his rework, they made it worst so i dont see a reason to give wes 2 moon and 2 shadow perks. But i like some ideas, my only issues is that wes has to be near survivors to give them luck, i dont want to babysit other people while using wes, i think all those skills need to be active all the time if any wes with such perks is in the server alive, and they stop working if the wes with the perks die. That way wes can be usefull alive giving good odds to other survivors globally, i know some servers that insta kick any wes that joins in, but with these skills being global wes is gonna be loved even if he is harder to use for the person that chose him.

[Pruinae]

25 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

I think you are overthinking about all this, Wes is just a joke and even klei made him that way, remember his rework, they made it worst so i dont see a reason to give wes 2 moon and 2 shadow perks. 

Hey! Overthinking is what I do best 
Wouldn't it be the amazing though? By giving Wes an actual skill tree and making him a solid character to play as, the joke would be on all of the people that thought it could never happen. Its the perfect prank!! I can even see the name now, the update is named "Yes. Wes."

28 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

But i like some ideas, my only issues is that wes has to be near survivors to give them luck, i dont want to babysit other people while using wes, i think all those skills need to be active all the time if any wes with such perks is in the server alive, and they stop working if the wes with the perks die. That way wes can be usefull alive giving good odds to other survivors globally, i know some servers that insta kick any wes that joins in, but with these skills being global wes is gonna be loved even if he is harder to use for the person that chose him.

That's a valid concern. The way I envisioned it, you would have a pocket mime throwing gang signs at you while you do stuff which — while really funny — probably wouldn't be the most engaging gameplay for the Wes player. I wouldn't be against the effects being global, the range thing was mostly a balancing worry of mine (oh, am I making Wes too op?), maybe I shouldn't be so worried.

I also took him being alive for the perks to work for granted, it is good you pointed that out. Wes does have to be alive for the perks I suggested to work, even though I didn't consider mentioning that xD

[Swiyss]

I mean man, first of all, we have to take in consideration his upsides. I like Wes being the challenger character. But I have to admit to myself that I prefer his upsides rather than his downsides. If he was another Wilson, but with all the upsides that he currently have (more weapon durability, speed early game, rain protection without eyebrella, free way to show his position by raising balloons in the air, extremely easy way to control sanity etc..) then I would honestly probably not like him as much. So I believe that none of his downsides should actually be negated or aliviated with his skill tree.

59 minutes ago, Pruinae said:

Speedy Balloons durability is too short to give substantial benefit

That being said, I respectfully disagree with this. I believe that his speedy balloon is great because it allows the players to have to manage their sanity at the cost of being faster, which is something that will benefit players who are not that bothered by sanity because of the ways that they know how to deal with it. It indirectly is a nerf to noobs, buff to experienced players and this is probably one of the best (if not the number 1) thing about Wes.

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

Party Balloons can be nice for group sanity, but playing with experienced players they would rather kill the creatures than stand still, and inexperienced ones are better off with flowers and a tent

I agree here, Wes party balloon is somewhat in this weird place where it's kinda useful for a lot of people but a little nonsense for solo. I just don't see myself any way to improve it or change it really. Nothing comes to mind other than being a fun item, similar to his regular balloons.

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

His 25% tool efficiency is very interesting for something that was a byproduct of his reduced work efficacy.

That thing is amazing. In my calculations, because of planar damage, Wes will deal a total of ~17k damage with the brightshade sword while regular 1x players would do something like ~15k. He's not better at this tool efficiency thing than wolfgang and other characters with higher damage, but it is still a very cool niche thing I love about him. Having more uses out of hammering most things and also at using the fire and ice staff are also very interesting things.

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

The background was inspired by the fence Wes is seen performing in front of, in his short, along with the Tragedy and Comedy masks that represent the performing arts. The tree offers a lot of freedom of choice right away, without having any perks that are requisites for another, with the exception of the Affinity ones. This was made on purpose to allow the player to customize their experience depending on how much of a challenge they want.

The left ones forming the frowning face are the "Tragedy" perks, the right ones forming the smiling face are the "Comedy" perks, and in the middle we have the "Affinity" perks. To level a Comedy perk you require an insight point and a coin. Wes starts with one coin (because he is Wes), and he can get more by leveling Tragedy perks.

Affinity perks don't cost coins, only insight; And — unlike other characters — you can level the Affinity perks right away, without having to spend points on the rest of the tree to unlock. The regular "choose a side" and "kill the boss" shenanigans still apply.

I really really like this design of tragedy and comedy, I believe Klei should take inspiration here.

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

"Become immune to the health penalty. However, you can only be revived with the help of other survivors, the portal and touch stones. When another survivor revives you they get an extra 40 sanity."

Disables most revival methods, if you're playing solo you can only revive through the four naturally spawning touch stones. When playing with other players, you can do the same thing Wanda can do: Craft a telltale heart, die on purpose, and then let someone else revive you so they get 80 sanity (120 with this skill).

It is very much the "turn on hardcore mode" perk. Being able to revive through the portal is still allowed, because if you turn endless ON you're probably not looking for this kind of challenge anyway, so its nice to have the bonus of being immune to the health penalty in that case.

This is useful in case you drown, since you're not gonna lose maximum health, but other than that, I don't see myself personally enjoying this one too much, I usually play solo, and even when I'm with friends, if I die, I believe that the sanity gain they get is still not worth the downside of not being able to use life giving amulets, which I usually bring with me 100% of the time. I like the life giving amulets and I believe that the challenge that comes with leveling up this skill is not too balanced around the upside of it. I rather not have this is what I'm trying to say, unless I'm in a group setting.

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

"A series of mishaps made the creatures of the constant wary of you. Creatures that are usually neutral now turn aggressive, and critters won't show themselves. Finding food while hunting them is far-fetched."

Birds and Butterflies won't spawn if a Wes with this perk is the source; Catcoons, Merms (except when king alive), Pigs, Bunnymen, and Beefalo are aggressive; Beefalos will buck you off instantly when you try to ride them; Pigs Wes kills will always drop Pig Skin, Bunnymen Bunny Puff, Spiders Silk (unless haunted), and Birds their Feather; Maximum chase time and range increased by 33% (Doesn't stack with Spring, but maybe it should); Wes' naughtiness threshold is always 31 (the lowest possible).

So, a summary: No healing from Butterflies, getting a Bird for a Bird Cage is a lot more difficult, breaking Pig Houses early on isn't as easy anymore, no Beefalo domestication, Krampus are more common, and all the weird range interactions with aggro range spring brings are always active.

However, you don't need to transform Pigs into Werepigs to guarantee the Pig Skin, always getting Silk has its upsides, and if you manage to get a Bird you will always get the feather. Can be relevant along with a Wickerbottom using Birds of the World to manually Krampus farm, since you spawn Krampus faster, and get a lot more feathers.

I like this one a lot. Personally I love the aggressiveness from said "neutral" creatures like the frogs and pigs. This skill would also make using the bunny king sword way better down in the caves. I just don't think that this skill should cut beefalo taming from a possibility, I believe it should be just similar to trying to tame a beefalo in spring, and using a beefalo hat would negate this issue. I also think that the beefalo should always drop a horn, no? Pigs should not be aggressive when wearing a tam o' shanter, butterflies should spawn if wearing a garland, Catcoons shouldn't be aggressive if using a cat cap, and pigs should drop 1x meat and 1x pig skin guaranteed instead, both basically. I also think it would be cool if you could spawn 2 birds around you if you pop a balloon based on turf, this reminds me of the crow chasing him in the cinematic. Overall, I really really love the idea for this skill.

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

"Suspicious dirt piles you uncover will never lead to a Koalephant."

Simple, you cannot get the vests, but you have an easier time making a War Saddle, and/or a Varg farm earlier.

While I think that is enough, a factor that could make this perk more undesirable is making so a Wes with this perk can find the Gingerbread Varg or Clay Varg even outside of events.

I don't think koalephants should NOT spawn, just swapping the ewecus and varg chances would be great and already be a very interesting skill. I don't thing the gingerbread and clay varg should spawn out of their events though.

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

"Its as if the Ocean is playing a prank on you. Increased chance to find threats when out at sea, fishes always have minimum weight and are randomized, and being wet makes everything incredibly slippery."

Fishes spawning due to a Wes with this perk will always be completely randomized, being able to spawn even out of place, season or events, and they will always have minimum weight. Rockjaw chance is increased to 20%. Gnarwail chance is increased to 20%. Pirate Raid odds increased to 40%. Tools on Wes hands are guaranteed to slip when he is Wet starting from 35 Wetness.

Bad if you want to explore the Ocean or go fishing for specific fish, good if you want Gnarwail and Pirate Raid loot. You get less Bootlegs since the Deep Bass will never be heavy. You might be able to get a Wurt an early Sunfish and/or Ice Bream. The perk still affects you outside the Ocean due to the being wet part.

I like this perk and I agree with almost all of it. I just don't like the fish always having the minimum weight and them not spawning in a group and outside their season. I think they should spawn guaranteed half of them heavy and half of them light if Wes was the one who fished them, giving you the luck of the draw. Would actually be kinda nice for pearl quest.

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

"Embrace the drama and let out your performative side, allowing you and other survivors to more easily get in tune. Getting hit provokes a dramatic performance, slowing you down while spurring nearby survivors into action. Empathize with nearby survivors afflicted with insanity."

When hit get slowed by 20% to realize a dramatic performance, other survivors nearby get a 20% speed boost. When someone is insane near Wes, the shadow creatures will go for Wes after doing their screech (similar to his innate perk with hounds after barking), regardless of if Wes is at full sanity. If Wes kills someone else's shadow creature, the sanity goes to the person that made it spawn instead of Wes.

Pretty bad solo, even the ally speed boost is not that desirable. Being able to help other players get out of insanity easier could be useful. Probably the perk with the strongest downside of the Tragedy branch.

Oh gosh here we go. Change the speed debuff to 5% and it would still be one of the hardest ones yet for solo, but kinda amazing for a group. I like this one very much. I think that it would be a nice touch, specially the sanity going for them.

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

Lightning strikes spawned on the overworld will always go for Wes if he is on the shard. Surrounding Meteors target Wes directly. Falling debris in the cavern that are supposed to spawn within other players close proximity spawn on Wes instead if he is on the shard. All of the debris that is supposed to spawn on Wes' surroundings always spawn in his close surroundings. Antlion will always target Wes (and only Wes).

Very "animated short"-like. Can be used to your advantage, you could use the meteors focused on you to kill the nearby Tallbirds for example.

Hmm, this one is very very interesting in a group, It's actually a really amazing sacrifice that you can do for the people in the server. Basically everyone at the caves will thank your presence there. I think there should be an indicator right before the earthquake happens, like a "bad luck" sound. Imagine you're in the caves and the earthquakes make that distinct Wes skill tree sound and you're in instant relief that you don't have to care about a single rock falling on you. But I can see some drawbacks thought that could easily be fixed with some corrections. What if I want the resources from the earthquake? (I guess, good luck) What if Wickerbottom uses the End is Night? (I think these lightnings in specific should not target Wes across the shard) What if there are moonstorms and lightnings are absent so I can't farm infused moon shards? (These lightnings should not relocate as well).

Maybe not all debris should relocate, but 90%. Maybe not all lightnings but some of them. And maybe not all meteors, but 50% of them should go at his surroundings.

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

"Embrace your misfortune in matters of the earth. Your interactions with nature and graves are more likely to be negative. In turn, nearby allies' are more likely to be positive."

If grass geckos are able to spawn, they will. Same chance to spawn tree guards as Woodie, and will always spawn the maximum amount regardless of the world's age. When planting with random seeds, chance to get forget-me-lots increased to 80%. Survivors planting near Wes will never get weeds. Graves dug by Wes always give trinkets and spawn a ghost. However, if Wes is near but another character is the one digging the grave, a ghost will spawn aggroed onto Wes and the grave will never give trinkets, only the other loot.

I decided to include grass geckos due to their jump scare nature, the regular chance is low but every character can get it easily with the shovel method, so Wes being guaranteed is not that big of a deal. Tree guards for living logs is good, but three at the same time with a 0.75 damage modifier can complicate things. Greater Forget-Me-Lots chance makes starting a farm more difficult, however the perk can make this the opposite when other players are present, and can be a good thing if you actually want the Forget-Me-Lots. You get to manipulate grave loot with the help of other players.

Credits to @Swiyss, who has given a suggestion similar to this in another post.

Thanks for the mention!

Man, yes, I think that this is also a great skill, and it's one of those that would be looked at with excitement for some, but hatred from others, which is perfectly alligned with Wes's idea of a character in my belief. I would change some things tho. I would make people be able to never get weeds just if Wes is in the shard with this skill. I would also change the trinket one a little bit, I would make it higher chance for trinkets for Wes, and just ghost immunity for other people. I think that the item inside the grave is already pre-spawned when generating the world and if that's the case than it would be a little hard to implement as a skill. But if not, then it would be very interesting to see indeed. I also am not a fan of the treeguards being always in a group of 3. Woodie chance of having treeguards is already a strong debuff in my book. I think that the gecko's should, again, have a higher chance to spawn instead of it being guaranteed, and the cooldown for spawning geckos should be lower too.

2 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Embrace your misfortune when dealing with treasure troves. Treasure-based interactions are unlikely to wield you good results, but nearby allies' odds are improved."

○ Sunken Chests opened by Wes will always have its treasure always grant the least quantity of items per stack possible, but ones opened near Wes always will always have the most and a Surprising Seed.
○ Tumbleweeds opened by Wes can only contain grass, twigs, and creatures. Tumbleweeds opened by another player while Wes is near will never contain grass and twigs, and if creatures spawn from that tumbleweed, they spawn aggro'd on Wes.
○ Loot Stash opened by Wes will never contain the % drops. But one opened while Wes is near have 20% chance for Krampus sack, guaranteed extra Life Giving Amulet, and guaranteed extra boss loot.
○ Ancient Guardians killed while only Wes is nearby will have its treasure always grant the least quantity of items per stack possible. But one killed while another player is present will always have the most.
○ Labyrinth Chests opened by Wes always activate their trap and have the lowest possible modifier, while for other players nearby the trap always proccs but with the highest possible modifier.

Bad if solo, great if with other players.

I like this one, but I don't think Wes should be close, maybe being in the same shard is better, globally. And the surprising seed being guaranteed I believe is too much, maybe having a higher chance is already kinda overpowered.

The tumbleweed one... I don't like anything about it. I would change it to make creatures impossible to come from anyone except Wes gloablly, and then make the tumbleweeds give 1 more grass or twig for everyone too. But Wes gets a little increase in the chance of getting creatures. Some people just enjoy having grass and twigs, that would be a troll to remove.

The loot stash one is controversial. I think that making it never contain the Krampus sack AND Blueprints period would be great, and then in the moment you open the loot stash, if there's another person in 20m from you, the chances go to normal, BUT you get double the Krampus sack if it drops and DOUBLE the blueprints in case it drops. Triple if there's 3 people, quadruple with 4 people and on and on until 6 people. This would make Wes absolutely insanely desirable in a group, since if the krampus sack chance would occur, 5 more sacks would show up IF there's a Wes in 20m proximity when the loot stash was opened.

I think the same idea for the loot stash should apply to AG. If you're Wes, but solo, then it has a lower chance of getting the good items like the lazy explorer, and lower number of the great items like gems and thulecite. However if there's Wes + another person when the chest was spawned, it grants a higher chance to obtain those rare items AND makes current number of drops a tiny bit higher on gems and thulecite fragments.

For the labyrinth one, I really don't know again if the drops having the lowest amount is a great idea. Maybe make it less if it's Wes, but a tiny bit better if it's another survival, and make it global too.

2 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Embrace your misfortune when dealing with opposition. Enemies you kill are less likely to drop especial loot, while enemies killed by nearby allies have their odds enhanced."

If an enemy last hit by Wes has a % drop and it succeeds, it is rerolled and the new result persists. The opposite is true for other nearby players, if the % drop fails it is rerolled and the new result persists.

Some of the % loot that comes to mind: Message in a Bottle, Tam o' Shanter, Walrus Tusk, Krampus Sack, Butter, Bat Wing. But there are a lot more.

Alternatively, the perk could make so Wes is never able to drop the % loot. This would challenge solo Wes' with this perk to adapt into a gameplay style without access to those drops. I personally think that might be too harsh.

Would be really cool if the loot-related perks had a little animation like a four leaf clover shining when something was rerolled into a success, or a four leaf clover decaying when something was rerolled into failure.

Yeah I think "the world hates Wes" is going a bit too far here. Maybe keep this, but make it so that these drop chances wouldn't affect other player by giving them luck, rather it would affect Wes himself. And this idea HERE could also be true for the past 3 or 4 skills too. Just make Wes get slightly more loot if there's someone in the shard, to encourage sharing. But make it a lesser chance if he's doing it solo. This would imply that most of the solo Wes players wouldn't even bother leveling up this skill thought which is a problem I believe. Either make it great for both solo and with a group but make it better for the group OR just make it a bit worse for solo (not too much) but very great for groups.

I love the animation idea. But I wouldn't be too happy with the clover thing, maybe another dst related (constant related) simbol of luck.

2 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Enemies that attack periodically seem to have a vendetta against you."

○ When Hound/Worm waves occur, if a Wes with this perk is on the shard Wes will get the waves of up to three other players, and if it is a Great Depths Worm it will be guaranteed to go for Wes. All of the hounds redirected this way are special Hounds.
○ Varglets are unable to spawn for Wes, being replaced with 5 special Hounds.
○ Every Hound that spawns for Wes is always a special Hound.
○ If Wes is alone on a server, time between Hounds that are spawned in the same wave is reduced.
○ Eye of Terror/Twins of Terror will always choose to go for Wes.
○ 50% of the Frogs from Frog Rain meant for other players are redirected to Wes instead.
○ Bearger and Deerclops will always choose to go for Wes.

If you're solo, all of the redirection doesn't affect you. Can be extremely helpful while playing with beginners. Having all hounds be replaced with special Hounds can make killing them a little more complicated, but they have less HP and you get gems for your effort.

I love this. This screams "don't worry team, I got it". And it's more directly faced towards those typical Wes players that want a great challenge that almost everyone seems to be jealous about (skill issue lel). This fits the personality of the Wes player so well.

2 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Use your mime charm to obtain good deals when trading."

○ Queen of Moon Quay removes 6 trinkets instead of 4 when given a banana.
○ Pig King grants 1.5x more gold.
○ Receive a 50% discount in the Prize Booth and Benevolent Rabbit King crafts.
○ Frost Jaw will give 2 bootlegs per small fish and 3 per heavy fish.
○ Antlion gives 2 desert stones instead of one.
○ Crabby Hermit trades that cost one bottle give two items instead of one, the ones that cost more have a 50% discount rounded up in favor of Pearl (Penny-pinching!).

This one is based on his sequence-breaking The Gorge perk. I was so happy when Wes was meta!

Amazing! But the Benevolent Rabbit King trades are already so cheap, maybe there's something more that could the changed in that.

2 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"After standing still for 3 seconds, perform as a living statue, escaping hostile creatures' perception. "

After standing still for 3 seconds, drop enemy aggro and get a hiding state similar to Bush Hat's/Snurtle Shell. Taking damage resets the timer, but won't cancel hiding (it is a incredibly believable performance!).

Can be very powerful, especially if used in tandem with some Tragedy perks. I think the overall silliness, and the street performance vibe fits Wes incredibly well.

This timer could start when examining the Pile o' Balloons or when a certain action is done by the player or else I'll see myself turning into a statue constantly while organizing things in the base haha.

2 hours ago, Pruinae said:

Pantomime a rope to pull items towards you."

Allows Wes to pull items on the screen towards him, this allows him to pull items out of the Ocean, through walls, and out of Cave Holes. To use the perk, right click an item that is on the ground/water while having nothing equipped in your hand slot.

I don't know how the controls would work on controller, they really need the shipwrecked aim system lol. To circumvent this, maybe instead Wes can craft pantomimed rope and then use this new item to pull things. Equip it and use the secondary action button so Wes starts the lasso throw animation, the lasso goes ahead in the air towards the direction you are facing. You can make it fall down on top of an item by pressing the secondary action again, at which point Wes would pull the item automatically. But I really would like to avoid this route, as having to use an empty inventory slot for pantomimed things is too hilarious not to be a thing. 

Credits to @gaymime, who has given the foundation for this idea in another post.

*chef's kiss* rather, a mime kiss* This one is perfection.

2 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Pantomime tools to collect resources."

While having an empty hand slot, you are able to chop, mine, hammer, and dig the respective resources.

This perk makes way too much sense not to be a thing. Extremely useful in the ruins, never have to walk half a map back to base because you forgot to bring a hammer to Bee Queen. Save resources on tools. Considering Wes gets the 25% work penalty, I think him getting access to this is only fair.

Make it the efficiency of flint tools too. But I think that adding a personal pantomimed special item that does all of the 4 tools action would be better. It would have no durability, but drain the sanity while holding it by -10. That would make it kinda balanced I think.

2 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Learn to pantomime walls and doors."

This perk gives you the ability to craft Pantomimed Walls and Pantomimed Doors. At the cost of 10 sanity you can craft 4 walls or a door. They look like clear fine glass, and function similarly to fences and gates, but unlike fences they break in one hit and drop nothing. Dropping the unplaced wall/door version of the item makes it disappear instantly. They are fire-proof.

Wes' with this perk are able to see Pantomimed Walls and Doors regardless of distance, while ones without the perk — and other characters — only get to see these structures while they are within 2 walls of distance.

Very useful and very cheap, useful in any situation walls are. 

I don't see a use for this. And making other survivors not see it is not cool. Maybe it would work in very specific situations, but Idk. If you have an insight to this one in specific please let me know. I would definitely not lvl up this one.

2 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Pantomime a barrier capable of parrying damage."

While having an empty hand slot, use your secondary action button on the ground (Wortox Soul Hop button on controller) to initiate a very brief parry. Missing a parry puts it into a X seconds cooldown. Successful parries can be animation cancelled into another parry.

I don't have numbers for this, but the general idea is being able to — with precise timing — parry attacks to reflect damage back to the attacker. I'd like it to have a duration short enough to make it difficult. With the animation cancelling, doing successful parries into other parries to block multi-hit attacks such as the ones coming from Tentacles, Armored Bearger, or the Celestial Champion second phase, would be possible and look really cool.

Probably not a perk you want to use on high latency, but there's plenty of other perk options for those situations.

Woah woah woah. That's insane! This would only be a thing though if the penalty for missing a parry is double damage or something crazy like that. Because if I'm a good parrier, I can basically dance on enemies grave all of the time. I'm 100% up and ready for this skill.

3 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Learn to craft the Balloon Glasses. Lend it to allies to share your imagination, or use it yourself to enhance your vision!"

Costs 5 sanity to craft. 1 Day Durability. Getting hit with the glasses equipped makes them pop.
Can be equipped in the head slot to allow other survivors to see Wes' pantomimed structures regardless of distance, and allow a Wes with this perk to see and interact with hidden things, such as Shadow Creatures even when at full sanity, what item is a Mimic, Resting Horror, Rictus, Parasitic Shadelings, and Fuelweaver's Shadow Hands.

Allows you to kill Shadow Creatures before insanity becomes a problem, simplifies Mimic farming, no more having to get insane to get the Relic Chair blueprint, no need to have AoE to deal with Rictus, no need to drop sanity before the Nightmare Werepig fight, and can act as a Walmart Purple Amulet during the Fuelweaver fight. Well, at least as long as you don't let it pop, even then you could craft another one.

Credits to @Swiyss, who has given a suggestion similar to this in another post.

I like this one, It's simple yet effective. I would enjoy using this at those specific times, but maybe not the fuelweaver fight haha. Would be bonkers on multiplayer though.

[loopuleasa]

When luck is a stat in an rpg

[Swiyss]

5 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Your balloons scare enemies when popped. Learn to craft the Whistle Balloon, a balloon that annoys enemies into attacking the holder."

Any balloon when popped scares enemies in a turf radius for 3 seconds.

Learn to craft the Whistle Balloon. 5 sanity to craft. Lasts for half a day. If the holder is hit with it equipped, it pops.
Can be equipped in the hand slot to emit a whistle balloon sound (REALLY recommend the "Noisy Balloons" video on Youtube from the Grand Illusions channel if you are interested on what it could sound like lol, maybe not as obnoxious though), and pull the aggro from enemies within 3 turfs to the user.

Provides some crowd control to Wes. The whistle can be used to save someone or to save Wes himself, if used by others.

Credits to @Swiyss, who has given a suggestion similar to this in another post.

Very cool. Making them lose aggro after the scaring ends would also be nice.

5 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Learn to craft the Bundle o' Balloons, it has enough balloons to make the holder float!"

Costs 30 sanity to craft. Lasts for 1 minute. Getting hit with it equipped pops the balloons.
Can be equipped in the hand slot to allow the holder to traverse the Ocean and the Cave Void. The holder cannot interact with the game world while it is equipped (collecting Kelp as an example). If dropped on the ground, the balloons disperse on the air and show up in the map, similar to the Speedy Balloon's current effect. Only one is allowed per inventory, if Wes tries to give it to someone already in the possession of one, he will do his "no no" mime animation. If Wes crafts one while already having one in the inventory, the Bundle o' Balloons will be dropped on the ground and disperse into the air as previously stated. If the bundle is popped, or its durability reaches 0 while the holder is above Ocean or Cave Void, they fall and the usual punishment is applied.

Has synergy with Inflatable Vest, if your Bundle o' Balloons ends while you are above the Ocean the vest will prevent health penalty from being applied.

Perfect.

5 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Your balloons are more efficient and bring no harm to allies."

○ Regular Balloons deal 15 piercing damage.
○ Speedy Balloons last 3x longer. (Currently 1.5 segments for each 30%/20%/10% bonus, with the perk the balloon would last for 13.5 segments, nearly a day.)
○ Party Balloons deal 10 piercing damage and the confetti effect can now stack.
○ Inflatable Vest prevents dropping items on the water when drowning, working similarly to Wurt's swimming perk.
○ Balloon Hat no longer has durability.
○ Balloon Glasses no longer have durability.
○ Whistle Balloons last 2x longer (a day).
○ Bundle o' Balloons last 2x longer (2 minutes).
○ Balloons now cannot damage other players or loyal mobs.

Piercing damage can go through armor such as Slurtle/Snurtle's defenses. The enhanced damage with the added piercing effect makes the disabled friendly fire necessary, should Wes also be able to avoid the Balloons damage? Maybe the Party Balloons become overpowered being able to stack...

Credits to @Swiyss, who has given a suggestion similar to this in another post.

I don't think the party Balloons effect should stack tho. And what about using this in conjunction with the scary pop skill? Wouldn't it make balloons too overpowered? Maybe just tone it down a little bit and I think it would be perfect. Everything else that I read here is super great and it would be an amazing skill.

5 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"The Queen will reward your loyalty by revealing secrets within the Umbralla. The Umbralla's barrier slows enemies within, provides protection against the weather, and can be activated even while held."

Umbralla's barriers activated by Wes' with this perk — beyond its usual effects — will also provide 240 insulation against both heat and cold, slow enemies in its range for 20%, and impede debris from cave earthquakes from falling within. Additionally, Wes can choose to activate the barrier while holding the Umbralla; the barrier will move along with him.

Keep in mind the sanity drain aura while the barrier is active. What brought me to this perk idea was Umbralla kind of looking like a balloon while the barrier is active, and Wes having a little umbrella in his default art.

I like this one. I would definitely use this. I just don't think the umbralla aura moving with him is a great thing, I think the slow and insulations are already kinda strong enough. Maybe add a smaller area if you're holding it while it's activated, then it would make sense imo. Like half the size.

5 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"The Queen will reward your loyalty by adding flare to your performance on her stage."

When performing in Charlie's stage, an illusion is applied to Wes giving him the same appearance and max stats (Hunger/Sanity/Health) as another player currently online on the server. The player's current stats % is equivalent to what it was before, and usual nametag still remains. The illusion lasts indefinitely and can block up to one hit, but will be dispelled after. When examining stuff Wes will still do his usual mimicry with no quotes. If there are no players, then a random character is selected wearing the skins you have set. If transformed into Wurt, Webber, WX or Wortox, you get their tags. Both the items and briar hounds won't spawn, but the stage also won't enter cooldown.

Allows Wes to benefit from 150 hunger food, and to access the advantages of having more than 75 sanity. The same can't be said for health, since the illusion is dispelled upon being hit. I guess you could tank starvation and the weather for longer since those don't count as being hit? Slight synergy with WX, although no one uses the hunger or sanity circuits. An extra hit can make a big difference depending on your perk setup.

I think this perk need more love. Make it so every single survivor has a specific thing from it that Wes can use it, and it will disappear the moment Wes takes a hit (the joker's illusion gets revealed). Also make it so it's not random, the player can choose who to transform based on the stage offering. Assign an item for each offering, each item being attached to each survivor. And It will not simply be a copy of the survivor's appereance, but rather a faded and shadowy version of their characteristics, like faded Wilson hair, face and beard and stuff like that. The transformed version will have a constant -8 sanity per minute drain and aura. Not gain their stats, but some additional perks:

(You'll not be fully transforming into them, you'll only get these perks)
(The detransformed version will acquire their biggest fears)
(You'll basically be Wes but with the added features listed below)

_Wilson - Gain his innate beard insulation.
Taking a hit will detransform and drop 5 Beard Hairs.
Gets back with 0 sanity.
Item - Beard Hair.

_Willow - Gain sanity when close to fires (halved) and fire immunity.
Conjures her shadow fire skill once when detransformed.
Gets back with a Following Faded Bearnie that has a -20 sanity per minute aura and lasts half a day. It's sole purpose is to follow you and it is immune to hits and everything.
Item - Torch.

_Wolfgang - Can lift heavy objects.
Taking a hit will detransform and drop 5 marbles.
Gets back with 0 hunger.
Item - Meaty Stew.

_Wendy - Do 1.25x damage. 
Taking a hit will detransform and spawn the Tortured Soul.
When back, the Tortured Soul will murmurate things in your ears and follow you like it is attached to you. The Tortured Soul is invincible, and it last half a day. It drains your sanity by -10 per minute. The tortured soul is immune to damage and will not despawn unless 4 minutes have passed.
Item - Petals.

_Wx-78 - Can eat spoiled food with no penalty. Gain +25% movespeed.
Taking a hit will detransform and drop 5 Gears.
Gets back with 100 Wetness points.
Item - Scrap.

_Wickerbottom - Gain the Failed Student's Book. Has 3 uses. First use will spawn tentacles. Second use will spawn Lightnings. Third use will put things to sleep.
Taking a hit or using the tree uses of the book will detransform and drop 3 papyrus.
Gets back groggy for half a day.
Item - Papyrus.

_Woodie - Come out of the stage transformed into a random curse. Can use the base form of that curse.
When the curse form ends, will detransform.
Gets back with a fake lucy in hand, not unequippable. Lasts half a day and will drain -10 sanity per minute. It will utter bizarre and grim quotes regarding Woodie's fears.
Item - Log.

_Maxwell - Attacking a creature will spawn one soldier, digging or chopping will spawn 1 helper.
Taking a hit will detransform and drop 5 Nightmare Fuel.
Gets back surrounded by 3 terrorbeaks, they will aggro once you detransform completely.
Item - Nightmare Fuel.

_Wigfrid - Every hit heals for 1 sanity. Can only eat meat.
Detransforms when taken 3 hits.
Gets back hearing her songs play, with an innate -10 sanity per minute for half a day.
Item - Meat.

_Webber - Spiders won't aggro you, can't trade with pig king, pigs get aggressive. Gain a silk beard and can befriend spiders. Spiders won't attack you.
Destransforms when hit and drops 5 silk.
Gets back surrounded by 2 Spider Warriors.
Item - Spider Gland.

_Winona - Can craft quicker, but slower at low hunger.
Detransforms when hit.
Gets back with 0 hunger and groggy for half a day.
Item - Hammer.

_Warly - Maximum hunger increases to 250.
Detransforms when hunger hits 25 points or when hit.
Gets back with 0 hunger.
Item - Creammy potato pureé.

_Wortox - Can soul hop 3 time at any range. Maximum health increased to 150
Will detransform when hopped 3 times.
Gets back with a constant -1.5 health per second and a following soul that drains your sanity by -25 per minute for half a day.
Item - Telltale Heart.

_Wormwood - Plants will tend when walking over them. 
Will detransform when hit.
Gets back with a -20 sanity per minute and faint sounds of living logs burning for half a day.
Item - Living Log.

_Wurt - Merms won't hurt you, pigs will, can't trade with the Pig King. Cannot eat meat. Maximum hunger increases to 150.
Will detransform when hit.
Gets back surrounded by 2 aggressive shadow merms.
Item - Fish.

_Walter - No sanity aura affects you.
Will detransform when hit.
Gets back taking 1.5 more damage after armor for half a day.
Item - Compass.

_Wanda - 1.35x damage when holding nightmare weapons. Constant -10 sanity per minute.
Will detransform when hit and drop 5 Nightmare Fuel.
Gets back at 10 health.
Item - Thulecite Fragment.

5 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Take inspiration from The Moon to learn how to turn Brightshade Bombs into Balloons that inflict tremendous planar damage upon bursting. While holding Brightshade Balloons, Wes becomes enlightened."

Takes a Brightshade Bomb and 5 sanity to craft.
Works the same as his regular balloons, but has same damage and properties as the Brightshade Bombs. Maybe could deal ~50 extra damage and/or have extra range?

Getting access to enlightenment can allow Wes to avoid Shadow Creatures and restore sanity through Gestalts, but keep in mind that it takes up the hand slot and is only available after rifts.

I like this feature a lot. This would allow for perfect sanity control after rifts and a nicely positioned protection against enemies.

5 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"Listen to Their voice to discover secrets within the dream realm. While asleep, assume control of an Astral Projection."

When asleep by any means, assume control of your Jestalt. This form has its own 15 slots inventory, can see in the dark, but cannot equip items. Getting hit dispels the Jestalt, its items will drop and Wes is sent back to his body. It can use all Pantomimic skills as long as they are leveled. The Jestalt is dispelled if hit or if Wes' body is hit, dies or wakes up. The form can be dispelled early by the user by clicking a button similar to the one that appears when reviving using a Meat Effigy. Wes will remain sleeping even after reaching 0 hunger, however the health restauration from sleeping is nullified and he takes starvation damage as normal, this means he would be able to be Jestalt for 2 minutes and 15 seconds, since starving deals 1.25 damage per second. The Jestalt attacks the same way as Gestalts (should it get i-frames on attack? probably not). Effects that induce sleep have its duration overridden to last indefinitely, and can be cut short earlier than usual by dispelling Jestalt through the button.

Should Jestalt be able to hover above the Ocean and Cave Void?

I will be honest, I could not resist the Jestalt pun. But hey, the skill is pretty cool, don't you think?

That's just insanity hahaha. I would like this, but I have no idea how other people would perceive this.

5 hours ago, Pruinae said:

"All of your damage becomes planar. Successful parries now reflect extra planar damage. Become Immune to overheating and freezing. Become unable to benefit from planar defense, and armor is 50% less effective."

Having all your damage become planar works around Wes' 0.75 damage multiplier. The extra planar damage from parries should have very noticeable numbers considering the weakening of armor.

Taking into account you would need to spend 11 points total for this perk (10 from Tragedy + 1 for the perk itself), and have to deal with every Tragedy perk negatives, I think it is only fair for you to get something really cool from it. Especially considering the perk itself adds tremendous additional difficulty through the weakening of armor.

You can still use the remaining 4 insight points to level any Comedy and/or Affinity perks as you wish, even though you won't see the coin anymore.

Credits to @Swiyss, who has given a suggestion similar to this in another post.

YOOO. The overheating and freezing immunity... Idk about that but it sounds insanely overpowered. The 50% less effective armor is just crazy too. I love this one since true planar would be so sick man. But unable to benefit from planar armor just makes it almost impossible to play. That's some serious numbers that require some serious dedication too.

5 hours ago, Pruinae said:

Eating Fresh Fruit Crepes allows you to benefit from your luck-based perks for a day."

Eating Fresh Fruit Crepes makes the perks "Clown to Earth", "Clown Jewels", and "No Dice" treat you as if your were another player for a day.

If you made sure to get at least 7 comedy perks, I believe you do not wish to play Wes as a challenge character, so you get access to this freebie. Inspired by the French tradition that takes place in "Le Jour des Crêpes", it involves placing a coin on top of a cooking crêpe while flipping it, ensuring financial prosperity in the coming year. Others hold a coin in their right hand during the flipping process for good luck.

It is mostly here to allow solo players to benefit from his luck perks. But the justice of making Wes' favorite food actually useful for him is also sweet. Maybe the benefits should be extended to every butter crockpot food? He is French after all.

Just noticed that in the example none of those perks have been invested in lol, get uhhh- January's fooled I guess?

Yeah I think all butter recipes is great. It could also work with some milk recipes too to make it farmable.

 

[kehun]

Wow that's the best thing i saw in forums for while. Amazing ideas and pictures 

[gaymime]

oh! um, thankyou for the mention but i had asked for an invisible oar specifically since it is one of y favourite bits of flavour in shipwrecked and klei did the oar skin shortly after so i must confess i haven't really contributed to anything that matters here x''D

 

 

[Castiliano]

I hope Wes's Skill Tree is actually something like this. There are a lot of "overpowered" ideas here that wouldn't fit the character, in my opinion, but overall it's all very good, especially the concept. It's cool to have the option of making the game more difficult and using this character for that, since many ppl see him as a "challenge character", even though he's still too light for that. Also, congratulations on the entire execution of the aesthetic, it's impeccable and could easily be official — It was clearly made with a lot of love and by people who love the character. 

[loopuleasa]

I got home and finished reading all of this.

This is downright excellent!

Any vision of the scenes from the animated short for this?

[Pruinae]

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

I believe that none of his downsides should actually be negated or aliviated with his skill tree.

First of all, thank you for taking time to read through my concept and give your thoughts. 

Now, taking my concept into account:
His 0.75 damage multiplier is nullified by "Joker", I believe this is warranted when it has such a huge downside.
I don't believe any perks touch his reduced work efficacy, maybe a case could be made for "Pantomimed Tools". But his innate improved tool efficiency already takes care of it in that regard.
His low stats are alleviated by "Shadow Jester II", but you can lose it instantly by getting hit, having high sanity isn't necessarily better, so it makes the most difference in the hunger department, which personally I see as QoL (Playing Walter or Wigfrid with their 110 ~ 120 total hunger hurts my soul sometimes).

I understand not wanting to take away from his downsides, but I think making a skill tree with that in mind, without making compromises, would be very difficult (maybe a me problem lol).

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

I believe that his speedy balloon is great because it allows the players to have to manage their sanity at the cost of being faster, which is something that will benefit players who are not that bothered by sanity because of the ways that they know how to deal with it. It indirectly is a nerf to noobs, buff to experienced players and this is probably one of the best (if not the number 1) thing about Wes.

Understandable, this one would depend on the player, I think. Personally, having to stop and craft the balloon every 1/4 of a day is too much of a hassle for me, to the point that I'd rather ignore the existence of it in the first place, or play Woodie for his Wooden Cane (although comparing Wes to other characters is a fool's errand, it is more of a "brain sees this is being annoying, brain rather choose the other option"). So the cost is not the sanity for me, not really, but more the annoyance of it.

Your assessment is fair though, saying "It provides no substantial benefit" is not really correct, my bias towards it came through a bit too much in my text. I will edit that part later to make it more in line to what it actually is.

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

This is useful in case you drown, since you're not gonna lose maximum health, but other than that, I don't see myself personally enjoying this one too much, I usually play solo, and even when I'm with friends, if I die, I believe that the sanity gain they get is still not worth the downside of not being able to use life giving amulets, which I usually bring with me 100% of the time. I like the life giving amulets and I believe that the challenge that comes with leveling up this skill is not too balanced around the upside of it. I rather not have this is what I'm trying to say, unless I'm in a group setting.

This perk can become a problem, especially when you take "Joker" into consideration. However, I do believe that the players who would use "Joker" would appreciate the challenge offered by this perk. 

The challenge provided is "Don't die or you will be punished", in multiplayer it becomes "Don't die, unless there is someone to revive you, also you can give them sanity" which is when the health penalty comes into play.

It does bring the question "Will taking away the safety and convenience of Life Giving Amulets make the player less careless, or will it just be annoying?".

It is probably ok to replace Touch Stones with Life Giving Amulets, this would make the perk be even more punishing with early game deaths, but after you amass Life Giving amulets its punishment diminishes considerably, at which point you are probably in a stage of the game where the challenges provided have been diminished by progression anyway. I am not against it, but there is a lot to think about.

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

I like this one a lot. Personally I love the aggressiveness from said "neutral" creatures like the frogs and pigs. This skill would also make using the bunny king sword way better down in the caves. I just don't think that this skill should cut beefalo taming from a possibility, I believe it should be just similar to trying to tame a beefalo in spring, and using a beefalo hat would negate this issue. I also think that the beefalo should always drop a horn, no? Pigs should not be aggressive when wearing a tam o' shanter, butterflies should spawn if wearing a garland, Catcoons shouldn't be aggressive if using a cat cap, and pigs should drop 1x meat and 1x pig skin guaranteed instead, both basically. I also think it would be cool if you could spawn 2 birds around you if you pop a balloon based on turf, this reminds me of the crow chasing him in the cinematic. Overall, I really really love the idea for this skill.

Taking away Beefalo taming is very much on purpose and one of the main points I wanted to make with the perk, the problem with Beefalo domestication in this scenario is that it works around a lot of challenges that I wanted to provide with the other perks. Or at least when we think about the way it works currently; Maybe "Joker" or another perk could make damage received on Beefalo go directly towards Wes? That would solve some of the problems I had with it when making the concept.

The reason I didn't add the horn to the list was because it is not a "this or that" drop like how you get either Pig Skin or Meat with pigs or either Carrot, Meat or Bunny Puff with Bunnymen. I chose to always take away the food options, which could be considered unlucky in a game about not starving (but lucky for the player ofc, if they want the other resource). The idea behind the perk is "Your bad luck made so you can't round up allies and it is more difficult to get food", but with a "mishap" theme making it seem like it was a misunderstanding since it fits the character better. 

Adding work-arounds to the nature of the perk is something I find iffy, the challenge is to figure out different ways to do the things you would normally use this mobs to do for you. As an example, a way to get birds without them spawning is using Catcoons (I imagine their aggressive behavior with this perk works the same as for Webber and Wortox, they will be aggressive towards them but you can still recruit one with enough treats), after befriending them, they have a chance of puking an alive bird. 

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

I don't think koalephants should NOT spawn, just swapping the ewecus and varg chances would be great and already be a very interesting skill. I don't thing the gingerbread and clay varg should spawn out of their events though.

I wouldn't mind that version of the perk. I might revision it. Good looking out.

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

I like this perk and I agree with almost all of it. I just don't like the fish always having the minimum weight and them not spawning in a group and outside their season. I think they should spawn guaranteed half of them heavy and half of them light if Wes was the one who fished them, giving you the luck of the draw. Would actually be kinda nice for pearl quest.

I don't get what you mean with the "not spawning in a group" part.

I really like the complete randomness of it, even breaking some rules, my intention was to give an "Aprils Fools" vibe to it, Wes has a lot of connections to that custom and I wanted to represent it here.

The reason I put the "only minimum weight" restriction was due to Wes' unlucky nature, I also didn't want to make it somehow guaranteed to get heavy fish due to people that do fishing competitions/weight showcases in the game, I don't think the players that partake in that would appreciate having a character that can guarantee it and take away the randomness of it.

Your idea also can open the interpretation of "Wes' misfortune makes so fishes spawn with minimum weight, however the player comes into play and his 'fortune to others' effect affects the player directly, spawning some heavy fishes", which I could see being a thing, but then would bring up the question "Why isn't this diegetic effect present in the other perks?". I really focused on showcasing Wes' misfortune in the Tragedy perks, even when something can be considered lucky in the player eyes, there's room for interpretation on why it is unlucky for Wes himself.

Even after all that; Maybe a compromise could be making them heavy, but always set to be with the very minimum requirement for it to be considered heavy?

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

Oh gosh here we go. Change the speed debuff to 5% and it would still be one of the hardest ones yet for solo, but kinda amazing for a group. I like this one very much. I think that it would be a nice touch, specially the sanity going for them.

Numbers can always be altered, I wanted it to be bad enough to punish you for getting hit. I thought "well, walking cane is 20% so I guess that should be good", but maybe that speed debuff part of the perk isn't that interesting after all.

If the number on it isn't meaningful enough, I'd rather replace the speed debuff with something else that still affects solo players, otherwise the perk would only go into effect in multiplayer. Maybe it makes so when Wes goes insane, all Crawling Horrors that would spawn due to Wes' insanity are replaced with Terror Beaks? I like this version better lol, I will probably edit the post and replace it with that.

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

Hmm, this one is very very interesting in a group, It's actually a really amazing sacrifice that you can do for the people in the server. Basically everyone at the caves will thank your presence there. I think there should be an indicator right before the earthquake happens, like a "bad luck" sound. Imagine you're in the caves and the earthquakes make that distinct Wes skill tree sound and you're in instant relief that you don't have to care about a single rock falling on you. But I can see some drawbacks thought that could easily be fixed with some corrections. What if I want the resources from the earthquake? (I guess, good luck) What if Wickerbottom uses the End is Night? (I think these lightnings in specific should not target Wes across the shard) What if there are moonstorms and lightnings are absent so I can't farm infused moon shards? (These lightnings should not relocate as well).

Maybe not all debris should relocate, but 90%. Maybe not all lightnings but some of them. And maybe not all meteors, but 50% of them should go at his surroundings.

Earthquake wise, I don't think I've ever seen someone farming it lol, maybe if I am already doing something in caves and really need a flint? But I carefully chose the wording "close proximity" on purpose, some debris will still fall around other players, just not close. Some exceptions for lightning should be made of course, the lightning from The End is Nigh! and Moon Storms indeed should not be relocated, I will update the perk description to point that out when I have more time, thanks for the insight (You made me think of a Wicker angry at a Wes making the book just to smite him across the shard LMAOO, poor Wes).

I think all Meteors falling directly on him is fine, Meteor Showers don't last too long and you could always run out of the Meteor Shower range. The image of a bunch of Meteors following you specifically as if you had angered the gods above is too good to pass up imo.

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

Man, yes, I think that this is also a great skill, and it's one of those that would be looked at with excitement for some, but hatred from others, which is perfectly alligned with Wes's idea of a character in my belief. I would change some things tho. I would make people be able to never get weeds just if Wes is in the shard with this skill. I would also change the trinket one a little bit, I would make it higher chance for trinkets for Wes, and just ghost immunity for other people. I think that the item inside the grave is already pre-spawned when generating the world and if that's the case than it would be a little hard to implement as a skill. But if not, then it would be very interesting to see indeed. I also am not a fan of the treeguards being always in a group of 3. Woodie chance of having treeguards is already a strong debuff in my book. I think that the gecko's should, again, have a higher chance to spawn instead of it being guaranteed, and the cooldown for spawning geckos should be lower too.

Soon I will reevaluate the perks range I suggested, to make them global where I think it makes sense. I decided to ignore the "would be hard to implement" notion when making my concept, I'm sure that if there is a way and the will to do it, the amazing devs at Klei will figure it out xD.

I think of Geckos as inconsequential, it is something so minor to me since you can guarantee a pen of like 40 of them (that's going overboard even lol) by first Spring if you know the parameters behind making them spawn. So the Gecko part of the perk for me was just for flavor, I don't mind changing the odds in it or even taking it away.

I also didn't think of the Tree Guards part as that big of a deal. I rarely chop trees, the perk would make me want to chop more trees to procc the chance even, but that might just be a playstyle difference. Making it just be the higher chance is fine by me.

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

I like this one, but I don't think Wes should be close, maybe being in the same shard is better, globally. And the surprising seed being guaranteed I believe is too much, maybe having a higher chance is already kinda overpowered.

The tumbleweed one... I don't like anything about it. I would change it to make creatures impossible to come from anyone except Wes gloablly, and then make the tumbleweeds give 1 more grass or twig for everyone too. But Wes gets a little increase in the chance of getting creatures. Some people just enjoy having grass and twigs, that would be a troll to remove.

The loot stash one is controversial. I think that making it never contain the Krampus sack AND Blueprints period would be great, and then in the moment you open the loot stash, if there's another person in 20m from you, the chances go to normal, BUT you get double the Krampus sack if it drops and DOUBLE the blueprints in case it drops. Triple if there's 3 people, quadruple with 4 people and on and on until 6 people. This would make Wes absolutely insanely desirable in a group, since if the krampus sack chance would occur, 5 more sacks would show up IF there's a Wes in 20m proximity when the loot stash was opened.

I think the same idea for the loot stash should apply to AG. If you're Wes, but solo, then it has a lower chance of getting the good items like the lazy explorer, and lower number of the great items like gems and thulecite. However if there's Wes + another person when the chest was spawned, it grants a higher chance to obtain those rare items AND makes current number of drops a tiny bit higher on gems and thulecite fragments.

For the labyrinth one, I really don't know again if the drops having the lowest amount is a great idea. Maybe make it less if it's Wes, but a tiny bit better if it's another survival, and make it global too.

You made me think about the Surprising Seed part, and I agree with you, but for a different reason: It would make people feel like they have to farm a bunch of chests, then swap to Wes to guarantee it. I will change the suggestion to remove it.

The Tumbleweed one might be one of the cases where having a range is good, if you want Grass and Twigs, Wes must go away.

I think your suggestion for the Loot Stash might be going a little too overboard, I still prefer mine.

I decided to keep it simple on AG as there was already a lot going on with the perk, that's why its effect on AG and the Sunken Chest are so simple.

My suggestion doesn't affect the loot from the labyrinth chests, only the effects of their trap. The trap will always be negative for Wes, but positive for others.

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

Yeah I think "the world hates Wes" is going a bit too far here. Maybe keep this, but make it so that these drop chances wouldn't affect other player by giving them luck, rather it would affect Wes himself. And this idea HERE could also be true for the past 3 or 4 skills too. Just make Wes get slightly more loot if there's someone in the shard, to encourage sharing. But make it a lesser chance if he's doing it solo. This would imply that most of the solo Wes players wouldn't even bother leveling up this skill thought which is a problem I believe. Either make it great for both solo and with a group but make it better for the group OR just make it a bit worse for solo (not too much) but very great for groups.

I love the animation idea. But I wouldn't be too happy with the clover thing, maybe another dst related (constant related) simbol of luck.

Yeah, thinking on it I think that one might actually be the perk with the biggest negative of all the Tragedy branch. I still think it fits a purpose as it is, you can even polarize it with "Le Jour des Crêpes". If it were to change, I'd rather it be replaced with something else, coming up with interesting luck-related perks I found to be very hard though xD

I thought about making the animation idea be something more Constant-related when coming up with the suggestion, but couldn't come up with anything... Is there even a Constant-related symbol of luck?

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

Amazing! But the Benevolent Rabbit King trades are already so cheap, maybe there's something more that could the changed in that.

I felt like the perk already did a lot, so that small bonus was enough in there.

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

This timer could start when examining the Pile o' Balloons or when a certain action is done by the player or else I'll see myself turning into a statue constantly while organizing things in the base haha.

I imagine you would be able to cancel the hiding seamlessly, so in those scenarios it would still activate but wouldn't bother you in any way.

On 1/17/2025 at 4:06 AM, Swiyss said:

Make it the efficiency of flint tools too. But I think that adding a personal pantomimed special item that does all of the 4 tools action would be better. It would have no durability, but drain the sanity while holding it by -10. That would make it kinda balanced I think.

I don't see a use for this. And making other survivors not see it is not cool. Maybe it would work in very specific situations, but Idk. If you have an insight to this one in specific please let me know. I would definitely not lvl up this one.

I don't understand what you meant by "Make it the efficiency of flint tools too".
I personally think it would be fine as suggested, the biggest benefit I see is really the part about making inventory management easier in the ruins. If you wanted a price, maybe like 0.1 sanity cost per action? I still think that isn't needed though. I really love the vision of it being an empty hand slot instead of an item.

Regarding the wall, I like the idea of it being a little troll. If that's a concern, make the range to see them bigger, it could be 4 or 6 walls of distance instead, but yeah, not being able to see them at all is a no from me too.
The idea behind them is to have a very cheap fire-proof wall to save resources early on in case you want to fight Dragonfly with the walls method, pen creatures (such as Tallbirds which have become soooo good with the addition of Tall Scotch Eggs), make hound protection together with Winona, or for if you simply would like to use them as a way to pen creatures but make it look like they aren't.

On 1/17/2025 at 6:09 AM, Swiyss said:

I don't think the party Balloons effect should stack tho. And what about using this in conjunction with the scary pop skill? Wouldn't it make balloons too overpowered? Maybe just tone it down a little bit and I think it would be perfect. Everything else that I read here is super great and it would be an amazing skill.

I think even at those numbers its fine, its 150 damage per 50 sanity. But wouldn't mind if the damage numbers where lowered or even kept the same, most of the point truly was to say "pls make current balloons better thx" xD

On 1/17/2025 at 6:09 AM, Swiyss said:

I like this one. I would definitely use this. I just don't think the umbralla aura moving with him is a great thing, I think the slow and insulations are already kinda strong enough. Maybe add a smaller area if you're holding it while it's activated, then it would make sense imo. Like half the size.

Lowering the range of the barrier while holding is a fair balancing factor. I wouldn't mind if that was the case.

On 1/17/2025 at 6:09 AM, Swiyss said:

I think this perk need more love. Make it so every single survivor has a specific thing from it that Wes can use it, and it will disappear the moment Wes takes a hit (the joker's illusion gets revealed). Also make it so it's not random, the player can choose who to transform based on the stage offering. Assign an item for each offering, each item being attached to each survivor. And It will not simply be a copy of the survivor's appereance, but rather a faded and shadowy version of their characteristics, like faded Wilson hair, face and beard and stuff like that. The transformed version will have a constant -8 sanity per minute drain and aura. Not gain their stats, but some additional perks:

Spoiler

(You'll not be fully transforming into them, you'll only get these perks)
(The detransformed version will acquire their biggest fears)
(You'll basically be Wes but with the added features listed below)

_Wilson - Gain his innate beard insulation.
Taking a hit will detransform and drop 5 Beard Hairs.
Gets back with 0 sanity.
Item - Beard Hair.

_Willow - Gain sanity when close to fires (halved) and fire immunity.
Conjures her shadow fire skill once when detransformed.
Gets back with a Following Faded Bearnie that has a -20 sanity per minute aura and lasts half a day. It's sole purpose is to follow you and it is immune to hits and everything.
Item - Torch.

_Wolfgang - Can lift heavy objects.
Taking a hit will detransform and drop 5 marbles.
Gets back with 0 hunger.
Item - Meaty Stew.

_Wendy - Do 1.25x damage. 
Taking a hit will detransform and spawn the Tortured Soul.
When back, the Tortured Soul will murmurate things in your ears and follow you like it is attached to you. The Tortured Soul is invincible, and it last half a day. It drains your sanity by -10 per minute. The tortured soul is immune to damage and will not despawn unless 4 minutes have passed.
Item - Petals.

_Wx-78 - Can eat spoiled food with no penalty. Gain +25% movespeed.
Taking a hit will detransform and drop 5 Gears.
Gets back with 100 Wetness points.
Item - Scrap.

_Wickerbottom - Gain the Failed Student's Book. Has 3 uses. First use will spawn tentacles. Second use will spawn Lightnings. Third use will put things to sleep.
Taking a hit or using the tree uses of the book will detransform and drop 3 papyrus.
Gets back groggy for half a day.
Item - Papyrus.

_Woodie - Come out of the stage transformed into a random curse. Can use the base form of that curse.
When the curse form ends, will detransform.
Gets back with a fake lucy in hand, not unequippable. Lasts half a day and will drain -10 sanity per minute. It will utter bizarre and grim quotes regarding Woodie's fears.
Item - Log.

_Maxwell - Attacking a creature will spawn one soldier, digging or chopping will spawn 1 helper.
Taking a hit will detransform and drop 5 Nightmare Fuel.
Gets back surrounded by 3 terrorbeaks, they will aggro once you detransform completely.
Item - Nightmare Fuel.

_Wigfrid - Every hit heals for 1 sanity. Can only eat meat.
Detransforms when taken 3 hits.
Gets back hearing her songs play, with an innate -10 sanity per minute for half a day.
Item - Meat.

_Webber - Spiders won't aggro you, can't trade with pig king, pigs get aggressive. Gain a silk beard and can befriend spiders. Spiders won't attack you.
Destransforms when hit and drops 5 silk.
Gets back surrounded by 2 Spider Warriors.
Item - Spider Gland.

_Winona - Can craft quicker, but slower at low hunger.
Detransforms when hit.
Gets back with 0 hunger and groggy for half a day.
Item - Hammer.

_Warly - Maximum hunger increases to 250.
Detransforms when hunger hits 25 points or when hit.
Gets back with 0 hunger.
Item - Creammy potato pureé.

_Wortox - Can soul hop 3 time at any range. Maximum health increased to 150
Will detransform when hopped 3 times.
Gets back with a constant -1.5 health per second and a following soul that drains your sanity by -25 per minute for half a day.
Item - Telltale Heart.

_Wormwood - Plants will tend when walking over them. 
Will detransform when hit.
Gets back with a -20 sanity per minute and faint sounds of living logs burning for half a day.
Item - Living Log.

_Wurt - Merms won't hurt you, pigs will, can't trade with the Pig King. Cannot eat meat. Maximum hunger increases to 150.
Will detransform when hit.
Gets back surrounded by 2 aggressive shadow merms.
Item - Fish.

_Walter - No sanity aura affects you.
Will detransform when hit.
Gets back taking 1.5 more damage after armor for half a day.
Item - Compass.

_Wanda - 1.35x damage when holding nightmare weapons. Constant -10 sanity per minute.
Will detransform when hit and drop 5 Nightmare Fuel.
Gets back at 10 health.
Item - Thulecite Fragment.

I wouldn't mind if the perk was something like this, when coming up with the idea for it I did think about giving a different effect for each survivor but thought it would just over bloat it. I decided to keep it simple and give it the extra hit and different stats functionality, which could be very desirable when playing with the "Joker" perk. Your idea gives me some "Binding of Isaac Tainted Characters" vibes lol

On 1/17/2025 at 6:09 AM, Swiyss said:

YOOO. The overheating and freezing immunity... Idk about that but it sounds insanely overpowered. The 50% less effective armor is just crazy too. I love this one since true planar would be so sick man. But unable to benefit from planar armor just makes it almost impossible to play. That's some serious numbers that require some serious dedication too.

I thought about it a lot. Overheating and Freezing immunity is something that is very powerful, but I don't think it is overpowered at all when you take into account the people that would play with the perk, they probably are already experienced enough to make so this is more of a QoL than anything.

I honestly think all of the perks benefits don't compare to the armor debuff + all tragedy perks being active, I would love to see different ideas for the effects it could have from other people in the community.

Again, thank you for taking time to give your thoughts on my concept. Even though we don't agree on everything, you made me reflect on a lot, and pointed out things I hadn't thought of 

On 1/17/2025 at 1:01 PM, gaymime said:

oh! um, thankyou for the mention but i had asked for an invisible oar specifically since it is one of y favourite bits of flavour in shipwrecked and klei did the oar skin shortly after so i must confess i haven't really contributed to anything that matters here x''D

Oh, I edited the mention a little to clear up what I think was the misunderstanding.

You did give the pantomimed rope idea in another topic, maybe you forgot? xD

I will also say that the pantomimed rope idea also served as inspiration to make the other pantomimed-related perks, so thank you for the inspiration!

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Pruinae said:

Oh, I edited the mention a little to clear up what I think was the misunderstanding.

You did give the pantomimed rope idea in another topic, maybe you forgot? xD

I will also say that the pantomimed rope idea also served as inspiration to make the other pantomimed-related perks, so thank you for the inspiration!

Yeah I remember him saying about this idea of a pantomimed fishing rod or rope that fish items to the coast.

[WANZUN]

挑战角色是过去的吧。最近的应该是弱的角色越得到超级强的补贴，如果只有wes得到微小补贴，这对他好像不太公平，尤其现在DST并不是一个有挑战的游戏。

 

The role challenge is a thing of the past. Recently, it should be that the weaker characters are getting super subsidies, and it seems unfair to him if only wes gets weak subsidies, especially now that DST is not a challenging game.

 

[Pruinae]

2 hours ago, WANZUN said:

挑战角色是过去的吧。最近的应该是弱的角色越得到超级强的补贴，如果只有wes得到微小补贴，这对他好像不太公平，尤其现在DST并不是一个有挑战的游戏。

The role challenge is a thing of the past. Recently, it should be that the weaker characters are getting super subsidies, and it seems unfair to him if only wes gets weak subsidies, especially now that DST is not a challenging game.

Hopefully my concept would be able to turn him into a very challenging character to play as, a very powerful support that can improve the team's loot drops and protect others by redirecting threats, or simply a character that has unique interesting upsides, depending on which skills you choose to level. That is already more than what Wes was before and more than what most people would expect of Wes. My hope is that regardless of which path Klei chooses to take when Wes' turn rolls around, it makes him a interesting character people would truly consider playing.

[gaymime]

15 hours ago, Pruinae said:

Oh, I edited the mention a little to clear up what I think was the misunderstanding.

You did give the pantomimed rope idea in another topic, maybe you forgot? xD

I will also say that the pantomimed rope idea also served as inspiration to make the other pantomimed-related perks, so thank you for the inspiration!

ah, that! i actually had forgotten. 

[gaymime]

20 hours ago, Pruinae said:

Hopefully my concept would be able to turn him into a very challenging character to play as, a very powerful support that can improve the team's loot drops and protect others by redirecting threats ...it makes him a interesting character people would truly consider playing.

so i have been thinking about this statement and i am pretty sure this would not make people want to play him any more than they already do(which is to say that they don't). i am sure you've noticed that the popularity of characters in this game are very closely tied to how easy they are to survive with. despite /claims/ from oldheads that they want a challenge i have not actually seen hardly anyone on this forum, on twitch, on youtube or on discord actually want to play a more challenging game they either are wanting more ease-of-use for their existing play-style or they want to show off their existing skill specifically in fighting stuff. in four years i can count on one hand people who actually want a harder overall game by choice and three of those already play as wes at least part of the time(one all of the time but i havent seen him around in like 2 years)

[Edible Coal]

2 hours ago, gaymime said:

so i have been thinking about this statement and i am pretty sure this would not make people want to play him any more than they already do(which is to say that they don't). i am sure you've noticed that the popularity of characters in this game are very closely tied to how easy they are to survive with. despite /claims/ from oldheads that they want a challenge i have not actually seen hardly anyone on this forum, on twitch, on youtube or on discord actually want to play a more challenging game they either are wanting more ease-of-use for their existing play-style or they want to show off their existing skill specifically in fighting stuff. in four years i can count on one hand people who actually want a harder overall game by choice and three of those already play as wes at least part of the time(one all of the time but i havent seen him around in like 2 years)

i think they would, becuase it means a good wes can help generate more resouces

[gaymime]

17 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

i think they would, becuase it means a good wes can help generate more resouces

*shrugs* that requires the kind of person who'd do a lot of extra work for others with no promise of getting anything at all in return which is a bit of a stretch to expect from pubs. the number of absolutely worthless wolfgangs and wendys that were vocally expected to help because it cost them very little to do so and did no such thing that i have personally seen does not endear me to the idea of selfless wes players.

 

but maybe you could be right and people would be interested in making the game harder for themselves AND it be the turning point in them becoming helpful cooperative players where they wouldn’t normally bother. stranger things have happened i am sure.

[Edible Coal]

4 minutes ago, gaymime said:

*shrugs* that requires the kind of person who'd do a lot of extra work for others with no promise of getting anything at all in return which is a bit of a stretch to expect from pubs. the number of absolutely worthless wolfgangs and wendys that were vocally expected to help because it cost them very little to do so and did no such thing that i have personally seen does not endear me to the idea of selfless wes players.

 

but maybe you could be right and people would be interested in making the game harder for themselves AND it be the turning point in them becoming helpful cooperative players where they wouldn’t normally bother. stranger things have happened i am sure.

thats the player decision , not on the character, currently there just isnt any big incentive to play wes and the skill tree can give him one. 

[gaymime]

Just now, Edible Coal said:

thats the player decision , not on the character, currently there just isnt any big incentive to play wes and the skill tree can give him one. 

it is the player's decision, i agree: that is why i feel doubtful. an excellent character is still a dud if people are not interested in playing them. this skilltree concept has a lot of very interesting things in it and a few are even exciting but a lot of it still requires a specific combination of player traits that are not generally seen in pubs and to execute competently requires a skill threshold that, generally speaking, is held primarily by the types of players that have already moved to closed group play/ solo play

[Swiyss]

12 hours ago, gaymime said:

so i have been thinking about this statement and i am pretty sure this would not make people want to play him any more than they already do(which is to say that they don't). i am sure you've noticed that the popularity of characters in this game are very closely tied to how easy they are to survive with. despite /claims/ from oldheads that they want a challenge i have not actually seen hardly anyone on this forum, on twitch, on youtube or on discord actually want to play a more challenging game they either are wanting more ease-of-use for their existing play-style or they want to show off their existing skill specifically in fighting stuff. in four years i can count on one hand people who actually want a harder overall game by choice and three of those already play as wes at least part of the time(one all of the time but i havent seen him around in like 2 years)

We don't NEED to make people play Wes. We need to make the people who already play Wes feel comfortable around the skill tree.

[Pruinae]

12 hours ago, gaymime said:

so i have been thinking about this statement and i am pretty sure this would not make people want to play him any more than they already do(which is to say that they don't). i am sure you've noticed that the popularity of characters in this game are very closely tied to how easy they are to survive with. despite /claims/ from oldheads that they want a challenge i have not actually seen hardly anyone on this forum, on twitch, on youtube or on discord actually want to play a more challenging game they either are wanting more ease-of-use for their existing play-style or they want to show off their existing skill specifically in fighting stuff. in four years i can count on one hand people who actually want a harder overall game by choice and three of those already play as wes at least part of the time(one all of the time but i havent seen him around in like 2 years)

You might be right, and a skill tree like this might have no meaningful impact in making people consider playing as Wes, based on the pattern we can see within the player base.

But would making Wes a character more in line with the others also make any impact? Thinking about which characters are popular it's Wendy in first place (by a landslide), then Wigfrid who set comfortably within second place the majority of the time, while the third is more difficult to pin-point, could be Wolfgang, Woodie, Wilson (mostly beginners, I think), and mayybee Willow. I don't think any changes to other characters would make Wendy and Wigfrid players stop playing as them (maybe if they released a character with many similarities to Wendy lol they could be besties, even then people do like Wendy a LOT).

I believe that besides how "chill" the character is to play as, another huge factor is character relatability, while of course not impossible (his "just a little guy" vibes are immaculate), it is a lot more difficult to relate to Wes because he has no quotes, except the ones hidden in the files for his stage play. Maybe Klei could make a set of like 30 reactions and set them to each and every entity in the game (sounds like a lot more work than just writing lines, but still), to let us understand a bit more what he thinks of everything around him, instead of just always being random (as it is now, it makes it seems like he changes his mind about something every time he examines it). Would even that be enough? I don't know. All I can say is what I think.

So I don't think taking away his identity of "challenge", "joke" (WES IS NO JOKE TO ME >:(), "silly" character is the way to go, because that is always what he has been represented as. You might disagree, and that's completely fine, we are on the forums so we can give feedback on what we would like for the game, after all. If you think my concept wouldn't have an impact, what instead do you think would?

1 hour ago, Swiyss said:

We don't NEED to make people play Wes. We need to make the people who already play Wes feel comfortable around the skill tree.

Well, we at least need to know what people that don't play Wes would like for Wes. Because, currently, the "people who already play Wes" is like 10 people lol

This is one of the major reasons why I did the concept, to see if it was something that both the people that play Wes, and the ones that don't, would find to be cool.

[Armonia]

One minor question that I don't know if it's been asked yet: what happens if there's two or more Wes(es?) with the same tragedy perks? Do they both get the bad parts, does it cancel out to average odds, or does it negate the downside entirely?

[Swiyss]

13 minutes ago, Armonia said:

One minor question that I don't know if it's been asked yet: what happens if there's two or more Wes(es?) with the same tragedy perks? Do they both get the bad parts, does it cancel out to average odds, or does it negate the downside entirely?

good question.