What do you think about.. monthly updates?

[nimzowitsch10]

The updates would obviously have to be smaller but overall I think it would be better. You could release a boss as an update, or one skilltree along with small additions. We have tried the 1 update for 3 months, it does not work to give us better updates like people thought it would.

The bigger bundle of updates just adds alot more things to pick apart along with more feedback. Klei goes overdrive mode in beta, making alot of decisions to try and please people. I think a shorter time frame with smaller content distributed throughout the year will make people more excited about the game. I feel it also will prevent certain skilltrees from being neglected because they focus on one thing the whole month instead of multitasking with multiple skilltrees in an update.

I'm not saying an update every month, but maybe 1 month devtime + 2 weeks beta for smaller updates. I guess the old schedule but a bit shorter timespan? The old update schedule would be better than what we have now

We all wanted to see what would happen with longer time in between updates and this is the result we got this year. I wish we go back.

[gaymime]

that is a dangerous idea. having people beta-test a new feature simultaneously with an upcoming feature is already rough, trying to bug-test AND put out a feature and only having 1-2 weeks to do it feels pretty strenuous especially since the game is already so big now that the current level of output is not enough to get all of the bugs worked out before it is time for a new set of things to come out. add to it the issue that it seems to take a week or two for console versions of the game to get aproval means they'd only get started on bugfixing console versions of the game -after- the next round of update have already started

[Kwaik]

Yeah as the other poster mentions one a month isn't really feasible. 

 

Smaller more frequent updates was IMO much much much more desirable. 

I don't really know what the sweet spot is. Right now you're talking 4 updates a year, which didn't work well. 

I don't know how the teams/structures of klei are set up as that would dictate what is viable from a workflow standpoint and whether you can have two teams working on two different patches at a time (ie one team working on a content patch one on a skill patch) 

But I think it they could do 2-3 major updates a year (ie similar size and scope to what we got this year) then maybe 5 or 6 small-medium updates (size and frequency depending on whether you did 2 or 3 major ones) it would be a nicer set of pacing. This would presumably coincide with small seasonal events actually containing new content 

But it seems like recently what they've been doing is 2 major  game changing world changing content patches a year. So sticking with 2 major content patches would make sense to me. 

They're doing 5-6 skill trees a year, so spread that out ideally over 5-6 smaller/medium patches again makes sense (sorry but 3 skilltrees at once just seems weird, I think it's more forced because of the current format of 4 major patches) 

Then that leaves seasonal events + whatever smaller things you want to bundle in with smaller patches (qol, new items, a new boss forms/reworks etc) 

A hybrid approach just makes the most sense as skilltrees don't make great major patches, and major world changing patches don't make a ton of sense for smaller ones

[nimzowitsch10]

@gaymime

If u read my post I meant 1 month + 2 weeks beta. Think of the wendy, wortox, walter update but split into 1.5 months each in total.

that would actually give klei developers more time to actually address concerns and give each skilltree the equal amount of time and dedication.

Biggest problem with skilltrees imo is they give more effort to one char than another. Think for instance Winona vs Wolf skilltrees.

 

Every skilltree update I feel one skilltree takes all the spotlight where people are like.. Wow they did this skilltree so good, i don't even care about this other skilltree they did. Thats how it feels with all the skilltree updates

[WANZUN]

负责不要饿死的开发人员就几个，更改更新时间似乎没啥用，工作力达不到，不然这几年能够做一个新游戏了，结果是一坨

There are only a few developers responsible for not starving to death. It seems that it is useless to change the update time, or else we will be able to make a new game in the past few years.

[nimzowitsch10]

@Kwaik

That's how it was with the old schedule, I liked it much better even though some updates were rushed.

The 3-4 updates a year model is really not working in my opinion and this year showed that

[Kwaik]

7 minutes ago, WANZUN said:

负责不要饿死的开发人员就几个，更改更新时间似乎没啥用，工作力达不到，不然这几年能够做一个新游戏了，结果是一坨

There are only a few developers responsible for not starving to death. It seems that it is useless to change the update time, or else we will be able to make a new game in the past few years.

Klei is owned by Tencent, who is worth over 500 billion dollars 

If tencent wants to make a new game. They can afford to staff it 

[WANZUN]

4 minutes ago, Kwaik said:

Klei归腾讯所有，价值超过5000亿美元

如果腾讯要做一款新游戏。他们有能力为其配备员工

现在DST的游戏运营方式正是腾讯那一套，包括每天上线领线轴，看直播领皮肤，小的更新，主要卖皮肤，现在klei真的不是腾讯的人在管理吗？

Now DST's game operation mode is Tencent's, including daily online neckline, watching live collar skin, small updates, mainly selling skin, is it true that klei is not managed by Tencent people?

[WANZUN]

klei和腾讯在中国差不多少同等待遇的公司了，不是指有钱，是指遭受辱骂。还要英语玩家一直说的免费更新是什么意思？DST什么时候宣布剧情完结了吗？不仅游戏收费，一年出的皮肤超过本体多倍，英语玩家的逻辑是不是lol，pubg全是免费更新。疑惑中

Klei and Tencent are almost the same companies in China, not rich, but abusive. What do you mean by free updates that English players have been talking about? When did DST announce the end of the plot? Not only the game fee, a year out of the skin more than the body many times, the logic of English players is not all lol,pubg is free update.

Bad translator app, I hope it won't hurt you by mistake.

[Just-guy]

That was the old model and it it often left with the updates feeling like they lacked content, and because every update meant to add new and different things it often led to said lacking content be worked in small quick fix patches in later updates until they were barely acceptable by most, which I don't believe is a very healthy way to maintain the model of updates

[gaymime]

1 hour ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

@gaymime

If u read my post I meant 1 month + 2 weeks beta. Think of the wendy, wortox, walter update but split into 1.5 months each in total.

that would actually give klei developers more time to actually address concerns and give each skilltree the equal amount of time and dedication.

Biggest problem with skilltrees imo is they give more effort to one char than another. Think for instance Winona vs Wolf skilltrees.

 

Every skilltree update I feel one skilltree takes all the spotlight where people are like.. Wow they did this skilltree so good, i don't even care about this other skilltree they did. Thats how it feels with all the skilltree updates

i read your post. one month + two weeks means 6 weeks, a beta already takes roughly 4 weeks give or take from launch to finish  so only allowing for two weeks beta means only half as much time to work on fixing the beta(the beta branch is not showcasing finished stuff, it is showcasing mostly finished code, partially finished art and sorta finished dialogue on top of the non-character stuff). so you have a month to do 3 months worth of work and then the beta branch comes out at which point you only have two weeks of the community testing, reporting and giving feedback. console players would either get between 0 and 1 week to test if everything is wrapped up at the end of those two allotted weeks which means if stuff is found AFTER the two weeks that eats into next month. it also means if you couldnt finish the month's work it ALSO eats into the next month's work meaning even less time to work on that stuff as well. i have worked for people under these conditions and it is untenable.

tldr? it is not "more" time it is less time because the part you don't see(most of the update) is chopped to a third and the part you do see is halved. they would have to just not work on anything time/resource heavy so they can keep up and not have to borrow time away from the next month over and over to keep up with themselves

 

32 minutes ago, WANZUN said:

klei和腾讯在中国差不多少同等待遇的公司了，不是指有钱，是指遭受辱骂。还要英语玩家一直说的免费更新是什么意思？DST什么时候宣布剧情完结了吗？不仅游戏收费，一年出的皮肤超过本体多倍，英语玩家的逻辑是不是lol，pubg全是免费更新。疑惑中

Klei and Tencent are almost the same companies in China, not rich, but abusive. What do you mean by free updates that English players have been talking about? When did DST announce the end of the plot? Not only the game fee, a year out of the skin more than the body many times, the logic of English players is not all lol,pubg is free update.

Bad translator app, I hope it won't hurt you by mistake.

you buy the game 1 time. if you choose to you never have to give klei money again. you still get to use every update klei puts out. skins do not change how well you play or if you can "beat" the game or make you better at fighting other players. this is why updates are "free" you must choose to opt-in to giving klei money when they put out updates. if you do not opt-in then the update(for you) is 100% free,

[GetNerfedOn]

Most people think less frequent updates are better:

 

[WANZUN]

49 minutes ago, gaymime said:

我看了你的帖子。一个月+两个星期意味着6个星期，一个测试版从发布到完成已经花费了大约4周的时间，所以只允许两个星期的测试意味着只有一半的时间来修复测试版(测试分支不展示完成的东西，它展示的是大部分完成的代码，部分完成的艺术和在非角色的东西之上完成的对话)。因此，你有一个月的时间来做3个月的工作，然后测试分支出来，此时你只有两周的社区测试、报告和反馈时间。游戏机玩家将有0到1周的时间来测试在这两周结束时是否所有东西都打包好了，这意味着在持续到下个月的两周之后是否找到了东西。这也意味着如果你不能完成一个月的工作，它也会侵蚀下个月的工作，这意味着你花在这些事情上的时间会更少。我在这种情况下为人们工作过，这是站不住脚的。

tldr？这不是“更多”的时间，而是更少的时间，因为你看不到的部分(大部分更新)被砍掉了三分之一，而你看到的部分被减半。他们必须不做任何耗费大量时间/资源的事情，这样他们就可以跟上进度，而不必一次又一次地借用下个月的时间来跟上进度

 

你买一次游戏。如果你愿意，你就再也不用给克雷钱了。你仍然可以使用klei发布的每个更新。皮肤不会改变你玩得有多好，或者你是否能“击败”游戏，或者让你更擅长与其他玩家战斗。这就是为什么更新是“免费”的，当他们发布更新时，你必须选择给klei钱。如果您不选择加入，那么更新(为您)是100%免费的，

You are talking about the case where Dst is over, when people buy a part of DST and know that the story of DST is not finished, and the subsequent updates are part of the purchase ontology, which means that when you buy a game and buy subsequent updates, including the purchase of skin, if the game is announced to be over, then sales will be greatly reduced.

[gaymime]

1 minute ago, WANZUN said:

You are talking about the case where Dst is over, when people buy a part of DST and know that the story of DST is not finished, and the subsequent updates are part of the purchase ontology, which means that when you buy a game and buy subsequent updates, including the purchase of skin, if the game is announced to be over, then sales will be greatly reduced.

i think the translator broke. please reiterate?

[WANZUN]

18分钟前，gaymime说:

我想是翻译器坏了。请重申？

When people buy a game, they also buy subsequent updates because subsequent updates complete the content of the game. The story of DST has not been declared over.

[gaymime]

Just now, WANZUN said:

When people buy a game, they also buy subsequent updates because subsequent updates complete the content of the game. The story of DST has not been declared over.

half correct? because klei is not obligated to keep updating it is purchased "as-is" which means you are paying for what already exists. anything that comes after is "extra". we players expect it but there is not an official contract.

i can see why you would see this as "paid" updates from that position. if you feel klei is obligated to keep updating the game then yes, whatever you paid when you bought the game covers future work.

[nimzowitsch10]

@gaymime

I don't really get what you're talking about i am trying to understand. i'm slow sorry.

I'm talking about splitting this 3 skilltree update into 3 separate updates which are each 6 weeks in total..

So wendy (6 weeks) wortox (6 weeks) walter (6 weeks)

That is around 4.5 months and it splits time evenly to every character skilltree

The point about there being things that cannot be done within a month is valid, and they should take longer on those types of updates. So maybe a hybrid schedule is good.

 

[gaymime]

1 minute ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

@gaymime

I don't really get what you're talking about i am trying to understand. i'm slow sorry.

I'm talking about splitting this 3 skilltree update into 3 separate updates which are each 6 weeks in total..

So wendy (6 weeks) wortox (6 weeks) walter (6 weeks)

That is around 4.5 months and it splits time evenly to every character skilltree

The point about there being things that cannot be done within a month is valid, and they should take longer on those types of updates. So maybe a hybrid schedule is good.

 

ah, i see the confusion. right now it is wendy(3 months) wortox(3 months) and walter(3 months)

there are three separate teams working on skilltrees at the same time. it is not one team working on all three.

[nimzowitsch10]

@gaymime

that may explain why some skilltrees are bad and some are good. idk I wish there was more consistency in quality between skilltrees, maybe all of them put their head together on one is better.

[WANZUN]

35 minutes ago, gaymime said:

一半正确？因为klei没有义务不断更新，它是按“原样”购买的，这意味着您为已经存在的内容付费。后面的都是“多余”的。我们球员希望如此，但是还没有正式的合同。

我明白为什么你会认为这是从那个位置“付费”更新。如果你觉得klei有义务不断更新游戏，那么是的，无论你买游戏时花了多少钱，都包括未来的工作。

Personally, I think 80% is correct. Klei can declare the official content of DST over, but it doesn't. There is a significant relationship between skin sales and game sales and obligation updates, imitating Tencent's poor performance.

[gaymime]

20 hours ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

@gaymime

that may explain why some skilltrees are bad and some are good. idk I wish there was more consistency in quality between skilltrees, maybe all of them put their head together on one is better.

sadly that is so far above my pay-grade to speculate on i can't even see the shoes of the guy who qualifies to think about it x''D

[Astraia]

Updates that take longer typically are better since a lot more thought can be put into them, which can make them more enjoyable in the long-run. Not only that, but frequent updates can be overwhelming (for me at least ) cuz I need time to adjust to changes of the game

[Ratituee]

we already did monthly updates for like 6 years, it didn't work. in general, im not a big fan of the dripfeeding model, i would rather have bigger updates less frequently. its much easier for the average casual player to follow and is also less stressful on klei's end.

 

i like the current model but havent been a big fan of the last couple updates. i think its correlation and not causation, and the updates will probably get better

[nimzowitsch10]

@Ratituee

I prefer the old schedule, this new schedule just makes klei go ballistic during beta because the amount of fixes and criticism they have to tend to. Hence why the latest update is postponed and we got 3 updates this year.

[Well-met]

I haven't studied in how to run a game company so I'm not gonna pretend I know what's best for klei.

alot of experts here though apparently