A portion of Wendy's skill tree conflicts with her character and background

[Yifei_]

1. Definitions and Distinctions between Necromancy and Spiritism

• Necromancy: Necromancy is a form of magic that involves interacting with and manipulating the souls, bodies, or undead of the deceased. It is often used to resurrect the dead, control corpses, or harness the powers of the undead. This magic is typically associated with dark, forbidden practices and is common in fantasy literature, mythology, and certain religious beliefs. The core of necromancy is the control or exploitation of death, often showing a lack of respect for the dead's rest, and sometimes using the deceased as tools.
• Spiritism: Spiritism, or mediumship, primarily involves communication with spirits, such as the souls of the deceased, through a medium. It does not involve resurrection or manipulation of the dead, but seeks to communicate with the spirit world, usually for comfort, answers, or messages. Spiritism can be seen as a more gentle, respectful approach to death, emphasizing communication with souls rather than control.
• Distinction: Necromancy focuses on controlling or using the powers of the dead, often through resurrection, manipulating the undead, or forcing the deceased to act. Spiritism, on the other hand, is concerned with communication and interaction between souls, often manifesting as dialogues with spirits or delivering messages, emphasizing respect and understanding.

2. Analysis of Wendy's Background: Necromancy or Spiritism?

Wendy has a sorrowful and attachment-filled attitude toward death. After losing her sister Abigail, Wendy turns to mysticism in an attempt to communicate with the deceased and reconnect with her sister. In her story, death is not just an end, but an obstacle she hopes to overcome and understand through supernatural means. Her attachment to the dead suggests she cannot accept the finality of death and seeks to maintain a bond with the deceased.

Therefore, Wendy's character is more aligned with Spiritism, as she seeks communication with the dead rather than controlling or resurrecting them. She hopes to converse with the spirits of the deceased through mysticism.

3. Analysis of Six Skills: Necromancy or Spiritism? Attitude Toward Death?

1. Flower Shroud
   • Belongs to: Necromancy
   • Attitude toward Death: Disrespect
   • Analysis: By transferring the damage to Abigail, Wendy is clearly using the deceased for her own convenience. This shows exploitation of the dead, lacking respect for death. This skill can be considered a variant of necromancy.
   • Design Reasonability: The skill has been deleted and will not be further discussed.
2. Headstone Beautification
   • Belongs to: Spiritism
   • Attitude toward Death: Respect
   • Analysis: The act of summoning and using ghosts for help focuses on communication with the spirits rather than raising or controlling the dead. The ghost is still an independent entity, not an instrument to be controlled, which aligns with the principles of Spiritism, where the goal is communication with the deceased, not manipulation.
   • Design Reasonability: The skill is practical, decorating the grave to summon ghosts involves communication with spirits and falls under Spiritism.  Optimizing the specific actions and details of "digging graves with a shovel" and flower decoration will be better.
   • 
   • 
3. Ghostly Elixir
   • Belongs to: Spiritism
   • Attitude toward Death: Respect
   • Analysis: The Ghostly Elixir provides positive effects through "mourning glory," essentially helping Abigail by connecting with the soul of the deceased. This behavior reflects Wendy's care and respect for the dead, making it a respectful act.
   • Design Reasonability: This skill fits Wendy's background perfectly, as it emphasizes her desire to maintain a bond with the deceased. It aligns well with her emotional needs.
   • 
4. Reviving Butterflies to Kill Again
   • Belongs to: Necromancy
   • Attitude toward Death: Disrespect
   • Analysis: The act of resurrecting and killing dead creatures again is a clear example of necromancy. It uses death itself to enhance Abigail’s powers, indicating the exploitation of death.
   • Design Reasonability: The cold nature of this skill may make players uncomfortable. The design, which enhances combat by resurrecting and killing the deceased, feels extreme. It is also practically ineffective.
   • 
5. Perennial Altar
   • Belongs to: Necromancy
   • Attitude toward Death: Disrespect
   • Analysis: The dialogue “Death is but an inconvenience” is a serious misalignment with Wendy's character and backstory.
   • Design Reasonability: The skill is not only low in practicality but also completely detached from Wendy’s character. The design feels half-hearted and poor.
   • 
6. Enhancing the Collection of Mourning Glory
   • Belongs to: Spiritism
   • Attitude toward Death: Respect
   • Analysis: By interacting with Pipspook, helping the lost spirit find its toy, Wendy shows care and understanding toward the deceased. There is no manipulation of the undead, only assistance, which reflects respect for the dead.
   • Design Reasonability: This design aligns perfectly with Wendy's desire to communicate with the dead, highlighting her warmth and respect for death. The skill is also fairly practical.
   • 

Conclusion:

The current version of Wendy's skill tree fails to distinguish between Necromancy and Spiritism, with many skills being inconsistent with her character and background. This issue could undermine Wendy's character, so the developers should reconsider the skill tree, clearly defining the differences between Necromancy and Spiritism. Death should be treated with seriousness, not as a trivial or mocking topic.

[Steorra]

Have to say, I've just mentioned that to my lover, said as "some skill in DST beta was a bit OOC for Wendy, which more like necromancy", She found that "to manipulate the dead is not suitable for Wendy".

She is just a newcomer of DST, mained Wendy for 3 month, and still can't handle the deerclop herself at the first winder. But she just found the OOC issue instantly.

[Demigardenerner]

Back in her original don’t starve design killing a butterfly was necessary to summon Abigail so it’s more of an nostalgia thing then a gameplay one also she does not like pretty things so I doubt she really cares for the butterfly feelings.and for the necromancy skills…Wendy is trying to revive Abigail just inspect different revival items so her testing it on butterflies and her new alter skills is totally in line with her character the flower shroud was scrapped so not sure why that’s here headstone relocation…you gain the ability to decorate graves so that seems pretty respectful.

[Huijing]

How serious and rigorous the design of the DS used to be. But, DST doesn't seem to be as rigorous as it used to be, and I hope developers take their work more seriously.

Especially for a tragic character, the conflict between the character's personality and the game's setting should have been avoided.

[Yifei_]

8 minutes ago, Demigardenerner said:

Back in her original don’t starve design killing a butterfly was necessary to summon Abigail so it’s more of an nostalgia thing then a gameplay one also she does not like pretty things so I doubt she really cares for the butterfly feelings.and for the necromancy skills…Wendy is trying to revive Abigail just inspect different revival items so her testing it on butterflies and her new alter skills is totally in line with her character the flower shroud was scrapped so not sure why that’s here headstone relocation…you gain the ability to decorate graves so that seems pretty respectful.

I understand your point about Wendy's butterfly revival skill being linked to her original design, but from a character perspective, this action doesn't truly reflect her grief and respect for death. Wendy isn't simply testing revival items; she's attempting to establish a connection with the deceased, particularly Abigail. Reviving a butterfly and then killing it again may be the game mechanic, but it conveys the idea that death is just a tool to be exploited, which undermines the respect for death. Death shouldn't be treated as something to be casually used, especially for a character like Wendy, who is so complex and sensitive.

As for the Perennial Altar, while it may align with Wendy's goal of reviving Abigail, the line "Death is but an inconvenience" is clearly at odds with Wendy's sorrowful and painful personality. Wendy's attitude toward death is filled with grief and attachment; calling death an "inconvenience" is a severe misunderstanding of her inner struggle. For a character who is tormented by loss, death is not just a minor "obstacle," but a profound and unshakable pain she cannot escape.

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, Demigardenerner said:

and for the necromancy skills…Wendy is trying to revive Abigail

Necromancy is for manipulating the dead, did you really think Wendy would like to revive her sister by a method  which just simply manipulating her?

I don't think to kill a butterfly is something, but to revive it is a bit closer to necromancy though it could be debatable, and to simply change the recipe from Butterfly Wings into Petals would solve the issue. However, the crawling up from the altar is a more OOC thing in this perspective. 

Wendy was a medium of original DST story who have ability or will to build a connection with spirits, for communicating with them (This is also the purpose of the Ouija Board). The most important thing is that her original will is focused on to keep her connection and communication with Abi, she would never want to revive Abi as a zombie or marionette form by manipulating her for just a psychological comfort.  This is OOC, seriously.

[Huijing]

12 minutes ago, Demigardenerner said:

headstone relocation…you gain the ability to decorate graves so that seems pretty respectful

Decorating graves may show respect, but moving tombstones at will is clearly not.

[Reiko24]

8 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

I understand your point about Wendy's butterfly revival skill being linked to her original design, but from a character perspective, this action doesn't truly reflect her grief and respect for death. Wendy isn't simply testing revival items; she's attempting to establish a connection with the deceased, particularly Abigail. Reviving a butterfly and then killing it again may be the game mechanic, but it conveys the idea that death is just a tool to be exploited, which undermines the respect for death. Death shouldn't be treated as something to be casually used, especially for a character like Wendy, who is so complex and sensitive.

As for the Perennial Altar, while it may align with Wendy's goal of reviving Abigail, the line "Death is but an inconvenience" is clearly at odds with Wendy's sorrowful and painful personality. Wendy's attitude toward death is filled with grief and attachment; calling death an "inconvenience" is a severe misunderstanding of her inner struggle. For a character who is tormented by loss, death is not just a minor "obstacle," but a profound and unshakable pain she cannot escape.

You seem to have misunderstood.

Wendy WAS testing revival items BEFORE the skill tree.

She tried to revive Abigail countless times with the same items survivors all use for resurrecting each other in case of death.

Is this necromancy and disrespect too? Not letting Abigail rest and testing all different kinds of resurrection magic types on her?

 

This post makes no sense.

 

Edit: Also, if I were dead, I would want people to move my grave if it meant I was going to be in a place where my grave is going to be taken care of, in a better, prettier place. The graveyard in the mosaic biome or forest is not those places at all.

[Steorra]

3 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

Wendy WAS testing revival items BEFORE the skill tree.

Yes ofc she did. But the purpose is not what Necromancy aiming.

Necromancy is for manipulating. 

Do you think Wendy would like to revive Abi by a manipulating way? This could not be her true will, even this would against her true will.

What Wendy's wish is to reconnect with Abi by breaking the line between Life and Death, but not to revive Abi in a marionette form.

[Reiko24]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

Yes ofc she did. But the purpose is not what Necromancy aiming.

Necromancy is for manipulating. 

Do you think Wendy would like to revive Abi by a manipulating way? This could not be her true will, even this would against her true will.

What Wendy's wish is to reconnect with Abi by breaking the line between Life and Death, but not to revive Abi in a marionette form.

You used words that make the meaning completely different in the main post. You should edit it if you don't want misunderstandings.

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

You used words that make the meaning completely different in the main post. You should edit it if you don't want misunderstandings.

Sorry but where? It's would be appreciated if you could point it out.

[Reiko24]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Sorry but where? It's would be appreciated if you could point it out.

resurrection as a necromancy thing, you should clarify it being manipulative, incomplete? resurrection, making someone a puppet

[Steorra]

9 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

resurrection as a necromancy thing, you should clarify it being manipulative, incomplete? resurrection, making someone a puppet

No. You have misunderstood something. I never say resurrection would must be a necromancy thing. I say some of Wendy's skills have a flavour of necromancy, and it is OOC for Wendy.

Resurrection could happened by Necromancy, or by DST world power (Life Giving Amulet), or by even other Occultism way. They do have a difference. 

The importance of current issue is that some skills of Wendy started to give a flavour of Necromancy. 

 

Also have to clarify that the Ouija is never an significant item for Necromancy. It is an item for building communication with spirits.

[Reiko24]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

No. You have misunderstood something. I never say resurrection would must be a necromancy thing. I say some of Wendy's skills have a flavour of necromancy, and it is OOC for Wendy.

Resurrection could happened by Necromancy, or by DST world power (Life Giving Amulet), or by even other Occultism way. They do have a difference. 

The importance of current issue is that some skills of Wendy started to give a flavour of Necromancy. 

 

Also have to clarify that the Ouija is never an significant item for Necromancy.

Yeah I reread the beginning again and it seems I have misunderstood, sorry then

[lio516]

To be honest, I hate the setting that tombstones must be built on corpses, forcing players to commit suicide, it is better to add bone pieces to the tombstone material, which can be placed at will

[Echsrick]

she is litteraly using her dead sister as a personal body guard that can destroy hordes of spiders, yea thats necromancy right there, i mean she alsol tries to revvive her wich is alsol necromancy, just try givin abigal a telltale heart and see what wendy says about it

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, Yifei_ said:

Analysis: By relocating graves and summoning the undead, Wendy is exploiting the dead. Summoning spirits to fight or mass-producing certain items (like slaughtering pigs) is a typical necromantic practice.

Personally I think this part is debatable. I would agree with that to shovel one's grave is just disrespecting. But Wendy summoned those ghosts by decorating their "home", this seems not like a form of Necromancy. Necromancy wouldn't be such soft way.

 

And I guess there's a way to fix the grave relocating issue - just give Wendy a special item, which would leading a ritual for relocating those graves. This would be far better than simply shovel those graves...

[Lee lol]

I think I may have made a mistake. I thought Wendy tried to resurrect Abigail before entering the eternal realm, but I checked the wiki and official animations. They only mentioned Wendy's attempt to communicate with Aby through psychicism after Abi's death.

 

As for the behavior of resurrecting Abi through the tellheart or the rebirth amulet in the eternal realm, I don't think it belongs to the category of necromancer. The resurrection in DST is different from the necromancer, otherwise we can say that each character can master the necromancer (because they can use the rebirth amulet)

I think Wendy's use of Abby's power to attack mobs is essentially different from necromancer. Wendy and Aby are sisters. The bond of affection allows Wendy to call Abi, and Aby is also willing to protect Wendy, which is a two-way support. And necromancer is a one-way manipulation. The manipulator has no feelings for the manipulated. He just wants to take advantage of the dead.

Also，thank you for your post. I think it will be very helpful for us to further understand Wendy's character setting and background story. 

[Yifei_]

5 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Personally I think this part is debatable. I would agree with that to shovel one's grave is just disrespecting. But Wendy summoned those ghosts by decorate their "home", this seems not like a form of Necromancy. Necromancy wouldn't be such soft way.

 

And I guess there's a way to fix the grave relocating issue - just give Wendy a special item, which would leading a ritual for relocating those graves. This would be far better than simply shovel those graves...

Indeed, I haven't thought this part through carefully enough and overlooked the skill of beautifying tombstones. However, I hope that the official team can optimize the specific actions and details of "digging graves with a shovel" and flower decoration in the future. I have edited my main post.

[SilverSpoon]

Of course, there is nothing wrong with you expressing your opinions from your own perspective.

However, it is very difficult to create a "Contents" that is acceptable and does not feel strange in all countries' cultures. In terms of desecration of the dead, DST is a game where you dig a grave, fill your stomach with soup made from the bones of human. I understand the feeling that "Wendy would never do that" or "I don't want Wendy to do that", but other people may think "I don't minde about that." and peaple think that way could be majority (I also didn't think this contents was a problem).

Please understand that Klei does not necessarily have to follow the opinions of all of people in response to such emotionally problem, and that if Klei do, they will consume additional development time, and that Klei may lose the time and development that would have been allocated to balancing or additional content.

[Steorra]

35 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

it is very difficult to create a "Contents" that is acceptable and does not feel strange in all countries' cultures

I agree with this, but I guess we are talking about the difference between Medium and Necromancy of literary works or Occultism...

And Klei have mentioned that they are considering if there are potential OOC issues, and they say that more improvements for this issue are incoming if I recall correctly 

[JoeW]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I agree with this, but I guess we are talking about the difference between Medium and Necromancy of literary works or Occultism...

And Klei have mentioned that they are considering if there are potential OOC issues, and they say that more improvements for this issue are incoming if I recall correctly 

 

[Steorra]

And some solutions for these problems could be easy...

Just like to change the recipe of butterfly from butterfly wing to petals,

 

7 minutes ago, JoeW said:

 

I'm not sure if I was gave wrong words or..

 

[JoeW]

Quote

And Klei have mentioned that they are considering if there are potential OOC issues, and they say that more improvements for this issue are incoming if I recall correctly 

Yeah, I was just linking the post for you and other readers so you can confirm that we said it was being looked at. =)

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, lio516 said:

To be honest, I hate the setting that tombstones must be built on corpses, forcing players to commit suicide, it is better to add bone pieces to the tombstone material, which can be placed at will

While I get where your coming from wouldn't it be far more disrespectful for Wendy to make fake graves for random bone pieces? Like I can justify it in my head that Wendy is making graves to mourn her friends even if they can be revived it's clear their corpses remain in universe especially considering the existence of a specific piece of removed content. Sure players will exploit this to gain more graves via suicide but in universe it translates to something abit more positive.