[Poll] on Walter's skill tree V2

[Crimson Hollow]

While I am enjoying Walter's skill tree so far, Walter's slingshot has got all the changes in previous updates and the rest of them still leaves something to be desired. There has been a lot of suggestions on his camping/scout perks recently and I believe it is a great time for another poll on how it could be adjusted. Huge thanks to everyone's ideas, as I will be mentioning them in the poll options.

 

Edit: 

I believe I have gathered some information on how people want Walter's skills to be, hope it's of help @V2C

Have a great holiday!

[Reiko24]

Woby skills need to be better, or if not better, they shouldn’t use so many skill points. Woby now seems like a waste to upgrade, except speed, which is a shame.

[kroban]

For Woby they should merge tier 2 on the skill tree and increase the badges to 6 like it used to be, the training station already has the "perk customization". To balance the "changing badges" thing maybe make it so she needs to eat something first. Increase her hunger bar, add a more efficient way to feed her (like pls Klei add the Woby treats!!!), and I think that would put her on a pretty good spot.

[Pcwer]

For the slingshot, I think it'd be fun if they let us load live birds into it. It'd be completely impractical but it would be a fun reference.

For Woby, I think the damage it takes for her to buck is still too low and should be increased, and it'd be nice to get some kind of lantern collar for her.

Also maybe give Walter some non-ammo affinity skills, like special campfire stories for shadow and a lunar woby maybe.

[salty_cookie]

13 minutes ago, Pcwer said:

For the slingshot, I think it'd be fun if they let us load live birds into it. It'd be completely impractical but it would be a fun reference.

Deal extreme damage to pigs only.

[Dandefender]

The major issues in my opinion that have not been addressed:

 

- he has far too many slingshots ammo and several old ones are not pratical (should've been replaced/merged).

- Fighting with melee became even more irrelevant. Basically  a "hold-F-at-range-character".

- All those perks to fix him after years and Beefalos still surpass Wooby by light years of distance ( even more  crucial than Maxwell + Beefalo)

 

Truth is Walter's patch showcased an issue people forgot: Skill tree without  tweaking core design issues first.

 

 

[UnkemptLee]

I will still stand by my previous post of giving Walter a mid-game DoT round. Weaker than the late-game one for obvious reasons but it would help balance out his damage gap a bit more, and give people more incentive to get his slingshot upgrades for the secondary rounds/shot option.

[_mylilsunshine_]

mm yes i love data

30 minutes ago, Dandefender said:

The major issues in my opinion that have not been addressed:

- Fighting with melee became even more irrelevant. Basically  a "hold-F-at-range-character".

you're the player, you have the agency. it's only that way because YOU chose to play that way.

melee still offers the best dps, and more dps = less resources spent. when i play walter, i often mix melee and range to conserve resources, especially in short-term boss rush worlds.

if you want safety, sure, hold F. but if you're a bit more daring and want better reward for more risk, melee is still a great option

[Soul7k]

4 hours ago, kroban said:

For Woby they should merge tier 2 on the skill tree and increase the badges to 6 like it used to be, the training station already has the "perk customization". To balance the "changing badges" thing maybe make it so she needs to eat something first. Increase her hunger bar, add a more efficient way to feed her (like pls Klei add the Woby treats!!!), and I think that would put her on a pretty good spot.

I tend to agree with this. it is actually counterintuitive and detrimental to take more than 2 points in advanced training since you can only ever fit 2

[MisterBilly]

I'd like to mention for other scout perks, and I've mentioned this before, It'd be cool if Walter could alter his portable tent  too. Making it a makeshift lean-to in the summer, and making you actively warmer in the winter and colder in the summer, as well as drying you off faster. It would give you more of a reason to take it with you.

Also a lantern pinetree pioneer hat would be poggers.

[Dandefender]

8 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

mm yes i love data

you're the player, you have the agency. it's only that way because YOU chose to play that way.

I could play DST on super hard mode  through radio internet with half screen covered in blanket , no keyboard on fasting outside of Gaza strip and say it's a much more engaging and harder experience but it wouldn't escape the fact it's a bad choice of design to play a video game on hard.

[Theukon-dos]

I still maintain that the Slingshot didn't need the DPS boost. But I can atleast appreciate that you need to upgrade it a tomorrow to beat out dark sword damage. And that said upgrade is locked behind the boss that deals extra damage to Walter specifically.

 

Woby I honestly think is fine. While Beefalo are generally stronger, I'm honestly not sure if it would be possible to buff Woby enough to make her better than a beefalo without forgetting the entire point. Yeah, you could make her faster and give her some other abilities. But the fact that riding a beefalo completely negates Walter's sanity mechanics in 99% of situations means that unless the beef get nerfed, they're pretty much always going to be the best option.

That said, I'd definitly not be opposed to some nice QoL for her like a hunger meter or being able to feed/open her inventory while riding her. And I'd still love lunar alignment to let you toggle between her two forms independent of her hunger.

 

As for scout-themed perks... eh. I've talked about before how the fact that Walter's skill tree is so focused is my favorite part about it. And he already has a lot of small perks other characters tend to get from their skill trees. So I'm not sure it's nessesary. A buff to the Pinetree Pioneer hat could be interesting though. 

 

Overall, Walter's skill tree is still just about the best O could have hoped for. As long as Klei doesn't completely rework it, I won't complain.

[_mylilsunshine_]

12 minutes ago, Dandefender said:

I could play DST on super hard mode  through radio internet with half screen covered in blanket , no keyboard on fasting outside of Gaza strip and say it's a much more engaging and harder experience but it wouldn't escape the fact it's a bad choice of design to play.

that's a slippery slope you have there. it would be a compelling argument if it wasn't so hyperbolic

[Soul7k]

7 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

That said, I'd definitly not be opposed to some nice QoL for her like a hunger meter or being able to feed/open her inventory while riding her. And I'd still love lunar alignment to let you toggle between her two forms independent of her hunger.

this but without an alignment. They could probably condense something and leave it a free option. wouldn't want to miss out on alignment ammo.

[MisterBilly]

47 minutes ago, MisterBilly said:

I'd like to mention for other scout perks, and I've mentioned this before, It'd be cool if Walter could alter his portable tent  too. Making it a makeshift lean-to in the summer, and making you actively warmer in the winter and colder in the summer, as well as drying you off faster. It would give you more of a reason to take it with you.

Also a lantern pinetree pioneer hat would be poggers.

I have decided to draw some (cruddy) quick sketches of what could be envisioned for some new pieces of utility for Walter, in a vain attempt to garner support for these ideas.

 

[gaymime]

*sweats* i feel so greedy x''D i clicked on about half of the camping/scout perks

[Soul7k]

13 minutes ago, gaymime said:

*sweats* i feel so greedy x''D i clicked on about half of the camping/scout perks

I am with you on this. some of the 8 points for different kinds of ammo and the woby tree you can only spec 2 out of the 5 points into could be condensed to make way for interesting stuff like this

[gaymime]

1 minute ago, Soul7k said:

I am with you on this. some of the 8 points for different kinds of ammo and the woby tree you can only spec 2 out of the 5 points into could be condensed to make way for interesting stuff like this

see that is the problem, you get me x''D makes me feel like i have should have the impunity to want more, hahahaha

[_mylilsunshine_]

27 minutes ago, MisterBilly said:

I have decided to draw some (cruddy) quick sketches of what could be envisioned for some new pieces of utility for Walter, in a vain attempt to garner support for these ideas.

 

I could totally see Walter tying up fireflies to hit Pinehat lol, this is so cute

[gaymime]

3 minutes ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

I could totally see Walter tying up fireflies to hit Pinehat lol, this is so cute

that reminds me of the old thing where people would make jokes about "walking" their "pet" bees

[HokahokaPancake]

I suggest the following.

- Pigs and rabbits wearing the Pine Tree Pioneer Hat will become Walter's followers.

- Shooting poop rounds at Beefalo will make them horny. This will allow them to attract enemies.

- Shooting Healing Salve Rounds at mobs will restore their health.

And I really like the following idea.

On 12/14/2024 at 6:15 AM, Well-met said:

Give woby a third form that's basically a bearger reskin that follows your commands.

 

Unlock these skills in a different branch from the Sling Shot branch in the skill tree.
In addition to fighting with just the Sling Shot, Walter can choose to gather allies and support them.

Walter is already very good at bringing allies with him.

- By storing multiple Beefalo Bells in Woby, Walter can move the Beefalo herds. This makes it easy to increase the number of Beefalo herds in various places.

- By feeding Stone Rounds to Rock Lobsters, Walter can bring Rock Lobsters with him at a low cost. If Walter shoots Poop Rounds at a sleeping Rock Lobster, it will wake up without hostility.

- By shooting Stone Rounds at Deerclops and Bearger while riding Big Woby, Walter can easily take them to any place he wants. Deerclops and Bearger are strong allies because they can become Luna Bosses. Bearger in particular can be awakened and activated even during hibernation.

- By storing BeefaloBells of multiple domesticated Beefalo in Woby, multiple domesticated Beefalo can be maintained. Each one can be domesticated with one branch per day. Multiple Beefalo can be ridden and fought in boss battles.

These are things that Walter could do before the Beta version.
These may seem OP, but the downside is that they take a lot of time to prepare before you can use them in boss battles.
I hope that Walter's abilities against followers will be strengthened.
This way of playing Walter is a lot of fun, so I recommend that you give it a try.

[Dandefender]

7 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Woby I honestly think is fine. While Beefalo are generally stronger, I'm honestly not sure if it would be possible to buff Woby enough to make her better than a beefalo without forgetting the entire point. Yeah, you could make her faster and give her some other abilities. But the fact that riding a beefalo completely negates Walter's sanity mechanics in 99% of situations means that unless the beef get nerfed, they're pretty much always going to be the best option.

 

She is not fine. They could've changed that. They could've make him lose a small amount sanity even if his riding partner is damaged.Then buff Woby, so Walter loses even less sanity while riding her.

The balance would be than Beefalo can attack and has much more HP than Woby. So no: I don't think it's even close to a good balance because it didn't solve any synergy in his design (as they had done to Wurt and Webber).

 

Quote

Overall, Walter's skill tree is still just about the best O could have hoped for. As long as Klei doesn't completely rework it, I won't complain.

 To top it off, Walter has some of the most random perks/ cons for the sake of lore with no match for gameplay: tree sanity (makes no sense gaining a tiny bit of sanity just to pass by trees or plant a few around your base...), fire pit story ( only works at night, throws away the sinergy of being a rider), bee penalty (it's ok I guess).

I mean even his pioneer hat cuts insanity by half...but then you lose the helmet slot (best armor equipments), so then you are subjected to receive more damage and consequently more sanity loss... so the best option to use Pioneer hat...is with a Beefalo because it tanks the damage unlike Woby...

So again: NOPE! In my opinion it feels like a "throw it on the wall and see how it will be because we are about to end it all already".

[OMEGASCRUFF]

After playing a decent amount with him in the beta, I've changed my opinions on him a bit. The sanity thing is a complete non-issue. Like, it's kind of a meaningless threat. You barely lose anything when hit as long as you've got good armor (and he can use Dreadstone and Marble Armor well) and food/Woby makes up for the rest, because very little day-to-day things besides damage will drop his sanity. Plus he's super good at killing nightmares to begin with, so it's barely even a threat. I literally have never used the Pine Tree Pioneer Hat in a meaningful way. I still have my first one from spawn and I'm post rifts. It's at like 70%. Indifferent if they improve it, honestly.

(I'm unironically starting to believe Marble Armor is a bit over-tuned actually. It's been a long time since I've used it because I lost interest in Wolfgang, but I forgot how insane it is. I'm sure Night Armor is just as good for Wanda, because I never bothered with it on Maxwell over a Beefalo anyways, and I still haven't given Wanda a try to this day. But that's besides the point...)

Anyways he just needs some tuning on his ammunition, and Stinger Rounds can easily be put into his base kit and replaced with something more worthwhile for an insight point on his skill tree. It would be really nice to have some support-oriented rounds.

I would honestly like to see another point or two for the Woby training. It feels a bit too inflexible, and I don't know how I could possibly justify Fetch or Hunting with the current limit, but I also keep her big because I unironically prefer to use her in combat over a Beefalo for her speed + ok sanity regen. Damage is meaningless if you just dodge, right? (Would be great if she would do those while big, though, if more points are given to us, to not "punish" people for using her in combat.) Only thing I'd change at the moment is how much training progress you get per hunt, and I'd increase the sanity regen on Support to at least be equal to a pudgy Beefalo, but it's fine as is, honestly.

Scout skills would be nice but I'm worried about them adding bloat onto his skill tree. It doesn't really feel like he has more than 1 or 2 flexible points to begin with. I have a feeling his slingshot skills might need to be condensed to compensate for it, but I'm not sure. It really depends on how good a new branch of skills would be, and how many skills it has. But I suppose I could probably live without QoL in favor of combat-oriented traits exclusively, as long as the build feels complete (it mostly does right now, but I'd love another spare point for Woby skills.)

I'd like the foraging scout skills for extra chance of items on un-transplanted stuff, but someone suggested before that he gets increased healing with Healing Salves and Honey Poultice, and this sounds nice to me. I'd love for that to be able to work on allied players and mobs, too, more than anything. Healing yourself isn't really a big deal, but the idea of Walter supporting Woodie when he's transformed is kinda a whole on-brand vibe.

Woby hunger info and skins pls. I will roll over and bark, myself, if I need to for this.

[viblym]

A lot of the presented Woby skills feel like things that need to be implemented on mounts as a whole.

[Mysterious box]

I've been thinking more about how the Woby side of the tree should go the main thing I don't like is the idea that you have to spend 3 Woby points in order maximum badge efficiency as I've mentioned in the past but an interesting idea came to me after thinking long and hard about it. 

So as I mentioned here the idea I'm hoping Klei goes with for Walter tree is to instead condense the current Woby skills into just the 5 badges with their tier 3 effect given just by equipping the initial badge but Woby's points being dropped down to 3 from 4 so you could only equip 3 different badges at a time like this.

With the effectiveness of the badges being raised via skill points, however a slightly different idea came to mind but it depends on how many abilities Woby finally ends up with. So my current working idea is what if we still went the route of dropping the Woby points down to 3 and giving the tier 3 effects to the badges like I originally proposed but instead of upgrading them via skill points each skill point you invest into the Woby tree would give additional 1  Woby point and 2 additonal Woby abilities/badges. By the end I feel like it would be like Woby having her own mini skill tree that also requires additional training I think it'd be really neat but what do you guys think?

Edit: thinking more on this I think I'll make this it's own topic to get more feedback on the idea.