Stupid question... But what does everyone actually want with wendy

[Debruh]

7 hours ago, WenericMember said:

As a wendy main im sad about what this has done to our reputation

Real as hell 

[RexySeven]

10 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of, first of all.. Wilson isn’t the only character unlocked from the start (like he is in Solo Don’t Starve) and you have to unlock others overtime, second: There’s no flashing arrow pointing to Wilson on the character select screen that says “Recommended” But perhaps the BIGGEST reason this is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard…

Is because Wilson & Willow are the Male & Female Mascots of the franchise, they both occupy the games main loading screen or the digital box art or whatever.. this is the very REASON why Willows character prior to her rework and skill tree was so close to Boring and Basic like Wilson’s… because she was the “Female” version of the basic starter character.

But now Willow has overstepped Wilson in Major ways by getting both a fun rework (Wilson never got a Rework…) AND a cool skill tree that made her even more unique to play.

Im not a Wilson Main.. but the poor fella got shafted in that shady deal.

You know what's even dumber? Comparing him to other characters.
And also not figuring out that absence of wacky abilities is what Wilson is, whatever you like it or not. Ol' reliable jack of all trades.

Good for both new players who yet to tackle out crucial mechanics and old players who are playing because they enjoy taking anything that in-game world gives them in purest form and proving they don't need any crutches in form of abilities in order to complete the game in any way they seem fit.
Any similar game has this character.
I think many people who play Wilson respect him for simplicity but people who suggest buffs and changes are trying to make him something he isn't supposed to be. 

I'd even go as far and say that Wilson shouldn't even have anything except 2 alignment planar perks for playing new late-game in his skill tree.

[Anis5240]

9 minutes ago, RexySeven said:

trying to make him something he isn't supposed to be. 

So even just to have a more generalized light source tree ISN'T WHAT HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE???? DESPITE BEING DEPICTED WITH COUNTLESS OTHER LIGHT SOURCES???????

FIRE PIT IN CYCLUM

TESLA LANTERN SKIN FOR THE FUNKO POP

MINER HAT IN FORGOTTEN KNOWLEDGE SHORT

 

HUH???????

That just said a lot about your ignorance.

[lio516]

9 hours ago, Well-met said:

They want Abigail to solo all mobs and bosses with the least necessary input while they sit watching on their shadow-bound modded beefalo

You look brutal and arrogant, so I would like to ask you why is it that most people are dissatisfied? Is it because people like you are so sober?

In fact, Wendy's players do not want to be able to easily fight all bosses, just because Abigail is too weak in the face of bosses, the damage to Wendy's skill tree comes from the comparison with Winona, Wattox, Willow, and the current Wendy's skill tree will only remind people of Wigford and Wilson, because many skills are only the cherry on top. There was no surprise and no desire to play, and because Wendy was so popular, people were looking forward to it for a long time, and the fact that it was very frustrating, so you could see a lot of dissatisfaction, but it didn't mean that we wanted op Abigail, we just wanted good skill trees that would make the game more fun, Instead of trying to put us off with a bunch of useless stuff just to add a skill tree

[DVGMedia]

I just feel that gestalt abby sucks.  Thats my only real problem. Its not worth makeing g abby since single target is easy to deal with  using the tools the game provides. Abigails uniqueness is in her aoe and that plays a much bigger role through out the game than single target does. And its not worth trading out for gestalt abby when shadow basically does her job better with the tools provided.

ever heard of a strong offense can be a good defense? Thats basically to what abigail boils down to right now.

I would want gestalt abby to become a beacon tank that wendy can setup with a command. Abigail cant move unless commanded by wendy and gains more defense an provides buffs to players around abigail Making her be more survivable but making the dps contengent on fighting with abby and setting her up in a proper position.

[RexySeven]

Just now, Anis5240 said:

So even just to have a more generalized light source tree ISN'T WHAT HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE???? DESPITE BEING DEPICTED WITH COUNTLESS OTHER LIGHT SOURCES???????

FIRE PIT IN CYCLUM

TESLA LANTERN SKIN FOR THE FUNKO POP

MINER HAT IN FORGOTTEN KNOWLEDGE SHORT

 

HUH???????

That just said a lot about your ignorance.

I think you yourself need some light sources in a form of sun in the sky outside of your house to calm down.

[Anis5240]

Just now, RexySeven said:

I think you yourself need some light sources in a form of sun in the sky outside of your house to calm down.

How about no? I think YOU SHOULD TAKE A TIME FOR YOURSELF TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE WHAT'S SO GREAT BOUT TORCH TREE.

[WenericMember]

The amount of people conflating bad balance with bad design is depressing.

[Anis5240]

4 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

The amount of people conflating bad balance with bad design is depressing.

Yet it happened anyway, because Klei never cares about balance in the first place. Just powercreep one after another.

[Debruh]

8 hours ago, Tranoze said:

So walking around map looking for bee hives doesnt count? Walking around looking for graves doesnt count? Beehive just naturally spawn at where you are and have 20 bees ready for you? Cuz as far as i know each hive only have 6 bees.
One flower just naturally spawn 20 butterflies for you? instantly? Even in winter?

Graves spawn at the mosiac biome, one of the closest biomes to spawn, and is often the source of gold and rocks. So they are already found. They also spawn in forests, so also that.

HowlVoid already addressed the bee and butterfly problem

[Lee lol]

4 hours ago, YuRinshue said:

我认为沟通之间似乎存在一些理解问题。这导致了很多毫无意义的沟通。让我们来谈谈我对这个技能树的看法。首先，我认为它有问题。核心问题是，技能树没有彻底做到所有事情，每个试图使技能树有趣的方向总是留下一些不舒服的部分，导致技能树中的很大一部分内容感觉“敷衍”，只有一小部分感觉有趣。因此，对于Wendy来说，在技能树之前，技能树并没有完全解决任何问题。

 

指挥阿比盖尔绝对是每个人认为最好的分支，但同步4.5s CD和扭曲的固定动作使它使用时总是有点不舒服。里面的许多命令效果都与战斗有关，但由于冷却时间、固定动作和各种实际用途的问题，玩家通过这一系列技能分支为战斗提供的帮助远远低于让Abigail紧贴Wendy。这让许多玩家觉得设计师太专注于保留不那么有趣的部分，但不愿意更顺利地优化这个分支，必须让玩家“带着枷锁跳舞”

 

然后是花环分支，这应该是一个非常有创意的分支，但设计师为了“限制力量”，让喝药的效果太无聊了

首先，所有药水都需要佩戴花环才能生效，移除花环将使它们无效。我认为这个设计非常子小，似乎是由没有亲身体验过游戏的人制作的。因为通过小幅修改，这种技能可以稍微美观一些。例如，给Abigail戴上花环并给她吃药可以部分受益于一小群队友。

 

然后是关于药物有效性的部分，我觉得这感觉非常“过度纠正”。

就像加速器一样，我不明白为什么恢复基本加速的功能需要减速才能生效。

还有两种类型的盾牌药水，一次性的50生命值上限盾牌，充满了莫名其妙的感觉。

返回血液药物，一个需要流血才能制作，而另一个最好在相同的时间内制作药膏。并不是说它们不能被使用，只是它们几乎没有自己的独特含义。在这个游戏中，恢复健康的方法太多了。一种需要戴帽子才能使用的治疗药物没有比其他药物更有趣的效果。总的来说，我发现很难感受到设计师在这个分支的辛勤工作。

 

接下来是与花环配对的制药分支和帮助幽灵分支。为什么这个分支在帮助鬼魂获得更多哀悼的荣耀方面不能令人满意？因为设计师使用了最不真诚的方式来增强非常无聊的内容——增加产量。这就像一个设计师知道有些事情很无聊，但设计师不希望它变得有趣，而是想让你更快地获得奖励。

药品也是如此。许多药水的效果是平庸的，可能有2-3种药水本身没有任何必要。此时，设计师没有决定让旧药水非常有用，也没有决定添加有趣的新药水，他们也不希望药水同时运行两个（在被质疑后，只有两个只有数值的裂纹阶段药水被不情愿地添加，其余的保持不变）这两个因素导致药水系统成为一个膨胀和变形的系统，其含义只是廉价、许多、非常便宜。不有趣，不有趣，使用起来不舒服，只是用大量的内容填补了空白。以至于在此基础上构建的每一段内容看起来都非常不愉快。

 

你可以在这里参考Vila和Votox的技能树。Vila和Votox的技能树允许余烬/灵魂做更多事情，使他们的能力丰富而有趣。而不是简单地提高他们获取灰瓿/灵魂的效率。我希望你能理解这段话的含义，它非常重要。接下来是阿比盖尔的月亮和影子分支。月亮分支是之前最特别的分支，因为它解决了阿比盖尔过于脆弱的问题，并改变了她的定位。但最新的更新不仅使她变得脆弱，而且可能比以前在这个分支中更加脆弱（更新日志中没有提到，他们在月亮分支中为阿比盖尔增加了1秒的“发呆时间”，每次攻击后都会启用）。与此同时，它几乎不考虑合理性，将她的损害减半。只剩下一个不会被直接杀死的，然后Abigail只能被前面提到的“坏基础”填满——一堆药水。

 

为什么影子分支是一个非常具有攻击性的分支？因为这个分支就像之前提到的关于药水系统一样，它们只是增加了一倍的价值，这不会让人们觉得设计师在思考如何让游戏对玩家来说更有趣。因为Abigail从来不需要更多的伤害，她需要的总是生存。把温迪变成麻烦的沃尔夫冈版本不会让任何人高兴。

 

与此同时，这两分钟都没有帮助解决“Abigail不能攻击大多数影子生物”的问题，这是一个有许多影子生物主动出现而Abigail不攻击的游戏。

 

至于死后剩下的树枝，有伤、墓碑树枝、骨灰盒树枝、复活的蝴蝶树枝和祭坛（肉雕像）树枝。这些事情真的很令人困惑，你知道，其中许多事情只要多思考一下就会变得有趣，但它们就是做不到。例如，在死亡后，可以添加造成伤害的幽灵的分支，以随着时间的推移提高其移动速度，使已故玩家能够更快地回到队友身边。各种花瓣可以放在骨灰烠中，以提供不同的好处。复活蝴蝶建立在无尽的哀悼和荣耀的基础上，然后用于激活影子分支的令人厌恶内容。因此，这个分支的出现并不令人满意。只需要稍微添加一下祭坛分支，允许复活的玩家从死者的身体中选择一件物品，并让小鬼魂为他们带回来。但他们只制作了一个肉雕像的复制品，这令人厌恶。总之，这么多人不喜欢现在的温迪技能树的原因是设计师们没有太关注基金会的设计（哀悼荣耀），只是增加了获取量，而不是有用的用途。对每个创意功能设置了许多限制，担心玩家可能对继续游戏感兴趣。

 

我使用翻译软件翻译了它，这个文本可能有点长，有些单词可能没有很好地打磨，这可能会导致理解问题。对此我感到非常抱歉。如果您对任何部分有任何疑问，您可以先告诉我，然后我们可以尝试进行适当的沟通。顺便说一句，在我所在的bilibili中，Klei官方帐户有一份官方声明，声明“Klei论坛支持中国交流”。因此，我认为如果你愿意，你们也可以用中文互相交流。毕竟，我仍然需要使用翻译软件，所以如果有任何不清楚的地方，我仍然需要问你。对我来说，用中文找到问题也更方便。

Your passage perfectly describes the problem of Wendy's skill tree. It is suggested to open a new post for everyone to see.

[Tranoze]

12 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Graves spawn at the mosiac biome, one of the closest biomes to spawn, and is often the source of gold and rocks. So they are already found. They also spawn in forests, so also that.

HowlVoid already addressed the bee and butterfly problem

Yes they exist, and you also missed the point of doing those things together takes time, resources are not free.

Even when wendy farm spider, she still have to wait daily for spider to spawn, and kill them, pick them up also take times. Cost less time compare to other survivors, but take times.

[Debruh]

7 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Omg you're right this is clicking a few things for me. 

In a few monster hunter games I've played people were complaining that the games were too difficult while completely ignoring key mechanics in the game like collecting small stat buffs around the map.

Is this what's causing the desperarity between Wendy players???

A lot of them seem to really like collecting skins for her or something. Makes sense why some people want Abigail to be able to kill bosses solo or why they think Abigail is built like wet paper. 

Yea, it genuinely explains a lot. Some people thing that ancient guardian can't be done with Abby, when vigor mortis trivializes the fight.

[PunkShark]

I'm just not gonna bother putting myself into this cluster of an arguement. Honestly just tired of it at this point. Instead-
What I want from Wendy:

• cancelling sisturn rest. Basically atm you can have her rest at the sisturn and still do commands, but if you let's say: let her charge towards your location, she'll just slowly return back to her sisturn and won't be much of a help (also it's just kind of awkward seing her slowly going back to the sisturn). not even unsummoning her will cancel it out so you'll have to manually go to the sisturn to get her off of it. So basically just cancel out the sisturn rest if you do any sort of command or unsummoning her. Or if she rests you cannot disturb her with commands and she'll stay at the sisturn.
   
• Now this is basically what everyone else have been saying but i'll put my hat into the ring as well. butterfly cost is atm way too expensive with mourning glories. 1-2 mourning glories at best and that'll be swell. Personally. 
   
• Swap the placement of the first 2 grave perks. i think it's a bit thematically odd to have the ability to addorn graves first and then dig up graves after. Cause idk who's gonna addorn random graves if they aren't near you in the first place.

 

• The skill tree is a bit of a mess design-wise and it feels a bit misplaced here and there. it's veryyy closely connected each other and overall it is probably the most cramped UI so far we've had. with the lack of direction and branch names. So. I did my own design without going too far away from the main theme. And adding more themes to it. excuse the poorly edited in changes and mistakes (no ghosts were harmed in the making of this UI) i did this one a whim
  before.
   

      after.

 

• First i thought the abi command skills were very sidelined towards the UI and felt very ignored, so i put them in the centerpiece under the newly created theme of Abi's flower, sprouting up from the flower itself. a little bit of a flair while also giving the perks some centerstage attention. as an extra suggestion, have the command skills not be as much of a choice by the first perk unlock and let you pick 3 of the ones you want, start with the one in the bottom middle (or top?) you could start off with the haunt command and build the rest from there.
• Alignments took up too much space so i pulled em apart and placed them on the sides. it felt perfect to place lunar alignment next to the moon (alongside mourning gloriy branch also having a sense of resurrection which is nicely fitting with this side. while i placed the vengeful ghost on the shadow side. While that one doesn't make as much sense, i do think this is a massive improvement to the placement of the perks and more so symmetrical. (even though the sun part is a little odd with it being shadow related, could change it to an eye instead?)
• I didn't wanted to change the original intent and design of the grave/pipspook branch along with the urn and elixirs so i tried to keep them as normal as possible.

EDIT: Perhaps i should've made my own post.

[cyjs]

18 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Graves spawn at the mosiac biome, one of the closest biomes to spawn, and is often the source of gold and rocks. So they are already found. They also spawn in forests, so also that.

HowlVoid already addressed the bee and butterfly problem

In the time it took to capture critters and collect Mourning Glory, I had taken down most of the bosses

[CremeLover]

One of the main issues I've had with Wendy for a while is with the adquiring of her unique resource in particular.
I'm going to copy paste what I said in another thread

Many characters have a special resource used for a lot of their crafting recipes or just their gameplay in general, but Wendy is the only one whose resource gathering cannot be automated, gathered along the way by just playing normally, or by another non-Wendy player.

Quote

Willow =  Embers. Just burn any weak mob. Can setup nice farms to automate it better.
WX-78 = Biodata. You can gather biodata from many different sources, and once you have a setup you want you only need more biodata if you swap circuits constantly. You can make a few pens near your base and scan mobs very fast and easy to stockpile a bunch of it.
Wickerbottom = Papyrus. Is a bit out of the way to go to the swamp to gather reeds, but with the inclusion of monkey tails, and the ability to turn blueprints from bosses into regular papyrus, plus the ability to regenerate books in the library, I believe her resource intensive demand has been quite lessened from her first iteration.
Woodie = Monster meat + basic resources. Is everywhere.
Maxwell = Nightmare fuel. Also everywhere
Winona = Many resources, including some boss drops. She is quite resource intensive, but structures need to only be built once since you can move them. Fuel can be gathered just doing other things not related to Winona, or by other characters. Lunar alignment removes need to refuel.
Warly = Spices. You do need to farm and do some sailing to get many of his spices, but many characters can gather all the spices for him.
Wortox = Souls. Any mob gives you souls.

 

Wendy = Morning Glory. Do a specific sidequest where you guide a ghost to its toys. Sidequest is the same day 1 and day 1000, cannot be automated or speedup or gathered through any other means, and only Wendy can do it. Her resource is to make consumables to boot, so no reuse like Wicker's books, Wigfrid's songs or Winona's structures

 

I don't hate her sidequest in particular, but is one that you don't have multiple ways to approach like other characters, cannot be assisted by third parties, done along the way while doing some other chores, and does not change or evolve as you play. Combine this with Abigail's natural might against anything that isn't a boss, and you find yourself that people prefer to kite with Abigail or desummon her if she gets too low rather than mass farm pipspooks. Also, she folds in a few hits against bosses that hit hard like bearger, which means a couple of mistakes implies spamming the elixirs like no tomorrow (which also overwrites previous elixirs).
I believe if there were other ways to adquire her resource that wasn't tied to its own sidequest isolated from the rest of the game, her particular crafts would see more use. What this other way could be is a bit of a conundrum, since the Ghost part of the constant hasn't been developed whatsoever since the original Don't Starve, where ghost came out of graves when dug up or during a full moon.

8 hours ago, WenericMember said:

As a wendy main im sad about what this has done to our reputation.

I don't think our reputation was ever that great to begin with, sadly...

49 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

I would want gestalt abby to become a beacon tank that wendy can setup with a command. Abigail cant move unless commanded by wendy and gains more defense an provides buffs to players around abigail Making her be more survivable but making the dps contengent on fighting with abby and setting her up in a proper position.

What a fantastic idea! ♥

Turnirg gestalt Abigail into a support could be both an interesting way to expand her toolset, as well as make more design space to focus on the shadow line as a pure dps, though I don't think we're going to get much support with everyone throwing their own different ideas around.

[Debruh]

2 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Yes they exist, and you also missed the point of doing those things together takes time, resources are not free.

Even when wendy farm spider, she still have to wait daily for spider to spawn, and kill them, pick them up also take times. Cost less time compare to other survivors, but take times.

6 mourning glory is just one pipspook, even before the skill tree. It doesn't cost that much time. And it's very worth it.

The damage to time ratio is very good.

[Tranoze]

1 minute ago, Debruh said:

6 mourning glory is just one pipspook, even before the skill tree. It doesn't cost that much time. And it's very worth it.

The damage to time ratio is very good.

Hey if you like to do it, it fine! You might feel notime passed when doing things you like. But for people dont like to do it, those are painful moment.

[Debruh]

2 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Hey if you like to do it, it fine! You might feel notime passed when doing things you like. But for people dont like to do it, those are painful moment.

Ok, I guess?

It's just a pretty weird argument. You either collect resources and use them or you don't. Just full on not wanting to collect resources is pretty weird

7 hours ago, Lee lol said:

the bosses that can be killed can be killed without medicine, and Abi basically won't be injured, such as dragon fly; bosses that are not easy to kill, even if you give Abi full of medicine, she is still easy to die, such as lunar bear (specifically referring to the gesta

Ancient guardian, Celestial Champion phase 1&2 both heavily require vigor mortis.

Beequeen requires nightshade, cause otherwise Abby won't kill the grumble bees fast enough and will die to them.

The twins and the eye of terror both require vigor mortis.

Toadstool also needs vigor mortis a lot.

These are all bosses that most of the time require elixirs, some may change with the new dash, but constantly dashing would be pretty inconvenient compared to how you can just do them now.

[Tranoze]

2 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Ok, I guess?

It's just a pretty weird argument. You either collect resources and use them or you don't. Just full on not wanting to collect resources is pretty weird

Dont know how but i feel pipspook quest too repetitive. Amber collecting for willow for example, you can change which mob you want to harvest from time to time. Same as soul collecting. But pipspooks remain the same for every quest.
Even hunting quest give different type of hunt animal (like varg/sheep..) make it fun some times

[Debruh]

1 minute ago, Tranoze said:

Amber collecting for willow for example, you can change which mob you want to harvest from time to time. Same as soul collecting.

It's still the same thing though. Ember is still just using combustion and killing a mob. Most of the times it's gonna be hordes where you either wait for them to die to combustion or finisb them off with something else. Pretty repetitive.

Souls is just the traditional killing stuff.

[Bumber64]

6 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

And yet even you can't deny that a more generalized light source tree is miles better than a tree that just focus ON ONE SINGLE DAMN THING THAT WAS OUTCLASSED BY ANOTHER ITEM. Get real.

Also IT IS OVER A YEAR ALREADY. GETTING CLOSE TO 2 YEARS, IN FACT.

Too many miles better, perhaps. Can you imagine what would happen if you gave the gentleman scientist power over more light sources than a torch?

It would be the university lab incident times *counts light sources* 15. My God, that's... I don't even know what that is! Nobody does!

[Anis5240]

3 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Too many miles better, perhaps. Can you imagine what would happen if you gave the gentleman scientist power over more light sources than a torch?

It would be the university lab incident times *counts light sources* 15. My God, that's... I don't even know what that is! Nobody does!

Good. If Klei likes to show him as this beacon of light (hur dur) SOOOOO much among the survivors then MAKE HIM COMMIT TO SUCH ACT; NOT JUST A FLIMSY ASS TORCH.

[Debruh]

38 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

Good. If Klei likes to show him as this beacon of light (hur dur) SOOOOO much among the survivors then MAKE HIM COMMIT TO SUCH ACT; NOT JUST A FLIMSY ASS TORCH.

At least it made him pretty good at scienceless ruins, I guess?

(Even though Wilson is all about science but whatever)

[Tranoze]

What if he is a walking science machine that everyone can use him to craft stuff but he cant craft it himself.