How can a developer in the same company design skill trees with such a huge discrepancy?

[Maxil20]

8 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I swear these forums detest speedruns unless they can use them to argue why characters should be nerfed, in which case they become the golden standard by which to judge all DST gameplay

I genuinely think speedrunning/boss rushing has warped the perception of the “casual” DST player. I am not saying you can’t do that because that would be silly (and a lot of speedrunners I have seen are good people innately), but ever since boss runs have become more popular, there have been a lot more arguments on why this breaks the gameplay or some other 27 reasons, when boss rushing is specifically a niche part of the gameplay and absolutely is not the intention to rush every single boss by year 1.

I think it’s unfortunate since a lot of people who aren’t used to that thing now warp their perception entirely around if a character can kill every single boss in ~70 days, when most players would never do anything close to that and would never play at that level of efficiency, but because a YouTuber showed you can do it, then it must be how good the character is!

Its especially unfortunate because it seems like most speedrunners don’t even encourage playing that way, it’s just the takeaway people get from the video, and it’s pretty unfortunate how fast that mentality can spread.

[Guille6785]

3 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I genuinely think speedrunning/boss rushing has warped the perception of the “casual” DST player. I am not saying you can’t do that because that would be silly (and a lot of speedrunners I have seen are good people innately), but ever since boss runs have become more popular, there have been a lot more arguments on why this breaks the gameplay or some other 27 reasons, when boss rushing is specifically a niche part of the gameplay and absolutely is not the intention to rush every single boss by year 1.

Its especially unfortunate because it seems like most speedrunners don’t even encourage playing that way, it’s just the takeaway people get from the video, and it’s pretty unfortunate how fast that mentality can spread.

every person I've seen who uploads those runs is genuinely sick and tired of their (our) videos being used to push narratives but these forums never respect the wishes of the videos' creators

5 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Hi cutie 

What do you think Wendy needs? 

I'm curious to hear your opinion. 

therapy

[Well-met]

56 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I swear these forums detest speedruns unless they can use them to argue why characters should be nerfed, in which case they become the golden standard by which to judge all DST gameplay

considering you only ever post whenever it's about speedruns or somebody wanting an exploit fixed, I can see why you're being tired of the topic.

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

every person I've seen who uploads those runs is genuinely sick and tired of their (our) videos being used to push narratives but these forums never respect the wishes of the videos' creators

therapy

Is this a sincere complaint from you?

I thought you were just doing a bit or something.

[Tarnishedmax]

Wendy fans complaining that she cannot do everything in the game for free with no risk make me so upset because just compare how much her tree does and then see how little Walter has, genuinely just being greedy at this point. Wendy has been getting new skills and overhauls in every single patch and Walter only got a new handle and it took 3 entire weeks. Wendy has an insane number of QOL and i feel like you guys maybe just don’t like playing Wendy and just want to remove everything that made her fun, every petition i see just removes the engagement she had and basically just wants to make her a new Maxwell with 0 weaknesses snd free gameplay. ╥﹏╥

[Echsrick]

5 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Wendy fans complaining that she cannot do everything in the game for free with no risk make me so upset because just compare how much her tree does and then see how little Walter has, genuinely just being greedy at this point. Wendy has been getting new skills and overhauls in every single patch and Walter only got a new handle and it took 3 entire weeks. Wendy has an insane number of QOL and i feel like you guys maybe just don’t like playing Wendy and just want to remove everything that made her fun, every petition i see just removes the engagement she had and basically just wants to make her a new Maxwell with 0 weaknesses snd free gameplay. ╥﹏╥

and then we get to wortox skill tree that give you ACTUAL DOWNSIDES with it if you go alot in one path, and then i see some people comparing wendy and wortox skill trees claiming wortox having it soo much better then her....and like i am thinkin, "do you want wendys skill tree to alsol have downsides in it?" like they cant be pleased ever

[Mike23Ua]

Why do these types of threads continue to pop up? I’ve explained the differences between Wortox & Wendy’s skill trees- Wendy got a ton of cool new stuff that aren’t even connected to her ONE Gimmick she used to have, Wortox got everything and I mean literally everything.. entirely connected to his ONE Gimmick.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare Wendy & Wortox skill trees and then be upset that the dev making the Wortox skill tree isn’t also making Wendy’s.

I have the absolutely HILARIOUS suspicion that even if they DID let that dev Re-do Wendys skill tree, people would STILL be upset about it when it doesn’t live up to their (quite ridiculous) expectations.

Poor Jason, I legit feel sorry for the guy cause he’s getting all the hate for being brave enough to do the skill tree for the most popular character in the game.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

and then we get to wortox skill tree that give you ACTUAL DOWNSIDES with it if you go alot in one path, and then i see some people comparing wendy and wortox skill trees claiming wortox having it soo much better then her....and like i am thinkin, "do you want wendys skill tree to alsol have downsides in it?" like they cant be pleased ever

It is interesting because when you look at Wendy's skill tree in terms of utility and raw power she definitely wins over Wortox and Walter by a longshot.

[Echsrick]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It is interesting because when you look at Wendy's skill tree in terms of utility and raw power she definitely wins over Wortox and Walter by a longshot.

and still, they want more....

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Fitzee said:

Dang, Walter's looks barren in comparison... My condolences. 

Even worse when you consider half the the rounds shown are worse than existing rounds or just have upgrades to them within the same tree or the Woby situation where you have to pay for the level 2 upgrades and still have a separate skill point system inside. 

But I still have faith they'll fix some stuff so I'm not too down on it.

[Cruvimaster]

We see threads specifically dedicated to justifying any changes to Wendy. We've never seen this with any character, even Wilson or Wigfrid (the community's second-favorite character). This already says a lot about the developers' stance on this beta. 

[Well-met]

3 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

This already says a lot about the developers' stance on this beta. 

so what is it?

[Cruvimaster]

Just now, Well-met said:

so what is it?

The power of Wendy's players? The power to sell skins? I don't know.

What I do know is that it's a completely different treatment than I've seen since the rework to the skill tree process.

To be fair, I've completely lost interest in DST, just as I've seen the top ambassadors forget about DST. I just hope Klei ends this beta soon and moves on to future projects.

[Tarnishedmax]

18 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

Dang, Walter's looks barren in comparison... My condolences. 

Its not that it LOOKS barren, it literally IS barren.

These 3 perks are useless because the honey rounds are instantly replaced by slowdown rounds (which are base kit btw) and then replaced by icker rounds, stinger rounds do 25 damage and get instantly replaced by glass rounds which is a completely different skill too that does the exact same thing but with more damage and the shockscrap rounds do 74 damage to wet targets and it costs SCRAP AND SAFFRON FEATHERS.

 

These 2 Woby perks basically make Woby a worse beefalo and no other benefits while the support one gives you a sanity aura for riding her that is worse than a pudgy beefalo....

These 2 perks combined only gives you a total of 10 extra round per craft, yes, both perks, genuinely just filler.

The slingshot is fine though its cool i guess, does damage! and the rest of the rounds are meh at best, thulecite rounds are still better lmao, except for glass rounds which are good for just cheap ammo, lunar alignment is kinda worthless but shadow alignment is cool. This is genuinely upsetting to me.

 

 

 

[GimplyGoose]

5 hours ago, CremeLover said:

Shadow Abigail: Does more damage IF you kill a mob in your inventory, so go gather a few before each fight.

Mourning Glory: You can revive butterflies for a very expensive amount, allows you to use potions with your hat which while it has great potential, it does require some tuning still. And you can make a meat effigy with new cool animation and assets, and same functionality.
I do like the potion brew line, I have no problems with it

 

A synergy you didn't mention, but is actually pretty cool is that you can revive a butterfly using mourning glories, then you can murder that same butterfly to activate shadow Abigail. That way you don't have to gather critters at all, you just need Mourning glories

[Yifei_]

3 minutes ago, GimplyGoose said:

That way you don't have to gather critters at all, you just need Mourning glories

The issue with this skill point is the numerical value. One Bug Net can catch 10 butterflies, yet it takes a full 40 Mourning Glories to revive 10 butterflies. I don't see the point in wasting so many Mourning Glories.

[GimplyGoose]

6 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

The issue with this skill point is the numerical value. One Bug Net can catch 10 butterflies, yet it takes a full 40 Mourning Glories to revive 10 butterflies. I don't see the point in wasting so many Mourning Glories.

It takes time to catch butterflies just like it takes time to help a pipspook. With the pipspook skills and relocatable graves it may be more convenient to just gather Mourning glories instead of waiting for butterflies to spawn by a flower

[Mike23Ua]

11 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

and still, they want more....

I only want a few fixes for a few skills that under certain game modes can’t even be used by Wendy. (Skeletons, Ghosts and GMBW)

I would LOVE additional effects for “Haunting” now that we literally have an on-screen targeting ridicule to aim at and target things to haunt (including ourselves?) Having UNIVERSAL upgrades to Haunting outside of Wendy’s commands would be great too (new things to do or effect when your a dead ghost)

I’d love a way to bring dead players to Wendy’s location so they don’t have to float all over the world to get back to Wendy so she can revive them (huge request on this because of how often my friends I play with actually die running off to do their own thing and try to learn the game)

I don’t think I'm being too unreasonable with these requests.. do you?

[Yifei_]

10 minutes ago, GimplyGoose said:

It takes time to catch butterflies just like it takes time to help a pipspook. With the pipspook skills and relocatable graves it may be more convenient to just gather Mourning glories instead of waiting for butterflies to spawn by a flower

You can try catching butterflies and collecting Mourning Glories in the game for real. You'll find that even with skills that make it easier to collect Mourning Glories, catching butterflies is still much faster. Instead of spending some cheap grass, twigs, and silk as the cost of butterflies, why would I go through the trouble of wasting a set of Mourning Glories? This is also part of the reason why some players question whether Klei has "ever played the game" when designing this skill point—it's too detached from the actual gameplay.

 

Additionally, compared to butterflies, I would rather catch bees. Once the beebox is built, obtaining bees is very, very easy, which further proves the strangeness and uselessness of this skill.

[Echsrick]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’d love a way to bring dead players to Wendy’s location

is that not what wortox heart item does? so in a way something like that allready exists in the code or like that

[Mike23Ua]

13 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

is that not what wortox heart item does? so in a way something like that allready exists in the code or like that

I don’t know, I can’t play in Betas.. and I’m not sure how it works in Multiplayer with multiple players for Wortox- Does he just select a random dead player to bring to him? (if Multiple are Dead.) 

I simply want Wendy’s Upgraded graves that she can use as her own personal meat effigy’s to allow me to stand beside them for a few seconds (while she’s alive) chant a little cute Sayonce spell and pull another dead players ghost to my location (which I’ll still need to use a telltale heart on to bring back them to life) 

Perhaps players can “refuse” this spirit pull by pressing B to deny or A to accept or whatever? 

Eitherway with Wendy having so many skill points invested into just Graves and GMBW she needs something this good from it.

[Echsrick]

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t know, I can’t play in Betas.. and I’m not sure how it works in Multiplayer with multiple players for Wortox- Does he just select a random dead player to bring to him? (if Multiple are Dead.) 

I simply want Wendy’s Upgraded graves that she can use as her own personal meat effigy’s to allow me to stand beside them for a few seconds (while she’s alive) chant a little cute Sayonce spell and pull another dead players ghost to my location (which I’ll still need to use a telltale heart on to bring back them to life) 

Perhaps players can “refuse” this spirit pull by pressing B to deny or A to accept or whatever? 

Eitherway with Wendy having so many skill points invested into just Graves and GMBW she needs something this good from it.

actualy wortox makes the heart, gives it to another player, so when the other player uses it they teleport to wortox

[ColdHeaven]

2 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

actualy wortox makes the heart, gives it to another player, so when the other player uses it they teleport to wortox

it's a cool concept but has niche usage later on, lazy deserter placed at key locations can easily replace most of it usefulness. it is more like an early game oriented perk and you would want to swap it out late game

[Echsrick]

13 minutes ago, ColdHeaven said:

would want to swap it out late game

if only theres a skill respec station instead of arkwardly using the celestial portal and re sellecting your character