Notes on Wendy's changes for patch 645651 (2024-12-06)

[WenericMember]

Just now, Arthurian Titan said:

I don't think she's worse than the other 2 at all. Shadow Abigail gains double damage so much that yu cal deal up to 135 dmg while on a beefalo by fighting with her, you can finally relocate graves, the new commands for Abby is super cool, the new Elixir drinking has a bunch of uses for early game, and she can now revive players. What would your suggestion be for 'suitable' skills?

I think in her original state she was worse, but by now shes leapfrogged past walter and is closing in on wortox. I think all she needs now is buffs for team spirit 1/4 and gravestones 3. 

A rework to the blessed sisturn skill might be noce too, but not needed.

[Cassielu]

13 minutes ago, Well-met said:

here it is, they're still unhappy.

There is no hope for klei to move on from refreshes, ever.

What should i happy for when its never became better?

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Considering that Wendy is character focused on the relationship between her and Abby. It feels pretty nice to expand that relationship to the other survivors. The new elixir also improves the connection between Wendy and beef, since it's a character specific thing that heals the drawbacks of the shadow bell revive (Considering that Wendy seems to be the only character genuinely sad over her beef's dead corpse, feels right)

Honestly my only problem is the fact that the new elixir kinda removes the penalty of Abby dying, then again it needing the weed is pretty good as a counter measure (weeds are pretty annoying to farm from experience).

I think the balancong thing is it doesnt restore hp instantly. So it still takes Abby out of the fight for abt a minute while you heal her up, which is faor imo 

[Grove]

8 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

A rework to the blessed sisturn skill might be noce too, but not needed.

Blessed Sisturn is good as it is, but a rework making it feel more dynamic would be so nice. Also, imagine being able to upgrade the Sisturn with brightshade husks or dark tatters? One could make it look like the Sisturn is a flower, while the other makes it look like it's wearing a mourning dress or smth. And they give upgrades when Abby rests at them

6 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

I think the balancong thing is it doesnt restore hp instantly. So it still takes Abby out of the fight for abt a minute while you heal her up, which is faor imo

Spectral cure-all, which is pretty easy to obtain, counter acts this. I do think it requiring weeds is good enough, just needs some getting used to cause it feels kinda wrong. No fault on Klei for that, just me still getting used to it lol.

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

What should i happy for when its never became better?

At this point I honestly don’t know what you would want from a Wendy skill tree that would actually make you happy that didn’t completely break the design of the character and push her into “workshop mod” territory.

I DO have a few complaints with the current skill tree though, particularly the potion that grants “night vision”, I can understand this being useful on Non-Wendy’s, but for Wendy herself.. I admired the concept Abigail’s ghostly glow being her light source.

the potion for night vision cancels that out..

(wouldve been better if instead of character night vision it significantly boosted Abby’s light Aurora)

I think that’s my only complaint I have left. But since Non-Wendy’s can also drink them for night vision I suppose it’s ok.

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Blessed Sisturn is good as it is, but a rework making it feel more dynamic would be so nice. Also, imagine being able to upgrade the Sisturn with brightshade husks or dark tatters? One could make it look like the Sisturn is a flower, while the other makes it look like it's wearing a mourning dress or smth. And they give upgrades when Abby rests at them

Spectral cure-all, which is pretty easy to obtain, counter acts this. I do think it requiring weeds is good enough, just needs some getting used to cause it feels kinda wrong. No fault on Klei for that, just me lol

Yeah, blessed sisturn is a fine skill as is. It could be better designed if theres time but its functional.

Fair enough. I like the pot bc losing Abby meaning shes out of commision for an entire boss fight is 80% of what makes wendys learning curve feel miserable. Get what you mean though.

 

[Nikki Darks]

It would be cool if you could place evil flowers in the Sisturn for a negative sanity aura. Would be great for bee queen crowns.

[Cassielu]

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

At this point I honestly don’t know what you would want from a Wendy skill tree that would actually make you happy that didn’t completely break the design of the character and push her into “workshop mod” territory.

I'm not sure how you define "workshop mod territory" Character.

• A bunch of overlapping perk
• A bunch of perk that is only related to character personalities, but less related in gameplay
• A bunch of non-theme perk works in different ways
• A bunch of non-core perk for multiple minor uses
• A bunch of exclusive item that just a reskin of non-exclusive items are just for character personality
• narrow and one-dimensional way of interacting between different perk

It looks to me like she's already in that territory.

[xhyom]

4 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

I'm not sure how you define "workshop mod territory" Character.

• A bunch of overlapping perk
• A bunch of perk that is only related to character personalities, but less related in gameplay
• A whole bunch of non-theme perk works in different ways
• A bunch of non-core perk for multiple minor uses
• narrow and one-dimensional way of interacting between different perk

It looks to me like she's already in that territory.

So what do you want 

[Arthurian Titan]

6 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

I'm not sure how you define "workshop mod territory" Character.

• A bunch of overlapping perk
• A bunch of perk that is only related to character personalities, but less related in gameplay
• A bunch of non-theme perk works in different ways
• A bunch of non-core perk for multiple minor uses
• A bunch of exclusive item that just a reskin of non-exclusive items are just for character personality
• narrow and one-dimensional way of interacting between different perk

It looks to me like she's already in that territory.

What are YOUR ideas for Wendy's skills? Instead of only complaining, give feedback and ideas and maybe the devs will implement them. Just criticizing won't make them be able to read your mind to make the 'perfect' changes.

[Wendigail]

Revenge Elixir only resists one attack and rebounds 40 damage, which is not very effective and wastes live wood. It can be buffed to create an invincible shield that can bounce damage for few seconds after being attacked

[Well-met]

6 minutes ago, xhyom said:

So what do you want 

they want each skill tree to be objectively better than the previous which is why wilson's tree seems so bad now.

klei being the good hosers that they are, they will unfortunately listen and cave in and lose manpower that would otherwise go on new biome and story updates.

 

[Wendigail]

Forget-me-lots elixir is just 15 hunger and 5 sanity, dont know where to use it, can it be more effective?

[Jason]

Just now, Wendigail said:

Forget-me-lots elixir is just 15 hunger and 5 sanity, dont know where to use it, can it be more effective?

It also works like a booster shot.

[Wendigail]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

It also works like a booster shot.

That would be useful in multiplay

[cyjs]

1 minute ago, Wendigail said:

That would be useful in multiplay

There is no need for Wendy to carry heavy objects when there are many people

[Cassielu]

1 hour ago, xhyom said:

So what do you want 

Like Wortox, it's a perfect answer to skilltree for me, and despite a little bit of powercreep it's not a big deal in comparison.

For Wendy, best deal of course was invite the designer of wortox to completely rework it, but obviously that's not possible, so I'm left with one suggestion to try to fix it in its current bad state -- merge or remove these repetitive/narrow/one-dimensional skills.

• Merge three Pipispooks skill, for three skills to do virtually the same thing is obviously bad. Or make it into something like Winona's shelves, which increase as the number of skill skills you earn Mourning Glory, since most of Wendy's skills now require them.
• Merge Abigail's haunting and scaring, for former already contains the latter.
• Merge Sisturn 1 and 2, for sistun 2 is really useless.
• Merge Sisturn 3 and 4 or remove one of them.
• Merge Resurrection grave, Bigspook grave and Vengeful ghost's feature into 2 skills and one same structure. Skill 1 for allowed crafting resurrection grave, and when you bind with this resurrection grave you get Vengeful ghost effect. Skill 2 for allowed resurrection grave spawn Big spook
• Merge building graves and moving graves for they already the same thing unless you are megabaser that need more grave than worldgen.
• Remove resurrection butterfly.

And give shadow skill a little bit of planar damage, in any form any nurmber, just to keep it from being over by lunar in post rift game.

[xhyom]

26 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Like Wortox, it's a perfect answer to skilltree for me, and despite a little bit of powercreep it's not a big deal in comparison.

For Wendy, best deal of course was invite the designer of wortox to completely rework it, but obviously that's not possible, so I'm left with one suggestion to try to fix it in its current bad state -- merge the repetitive skills and remove the one-use skills.

• Merge three Pipispooks skill, for three skills to do virtually the same thing is obviously bad. Or make it into something like Winona's shelves, which increase as the number of skill skills you earn Mourning Glory, since most of Wendy's skills now require them.
• Merge Abigail's haunting and scaring, for former already contains the latter.
• Merge Sisturn 1 and 2, for sistun 2 is really useless.
• Merge Sisturn 3 and 4 or remove one of them.
• Merge Resurrection grave, Bigspook grave and Vengeful ghost's feature into one same structure -- (but not for skills itself). Skill 1 for allowed crafting grave, and when you bind with this resurrection grave you get Vengeful ghost effect. Skill 2 for allowed is grave spawn Big spook
• Merge building graves and moving graves for they already the same thing unless you are megabaser that need more grave than worldgen.
• Remove resurrection butterfly.

And how would that improve anything? You shouldn't have all the skills in a talent tree, you're not supposed to, that would just make the tree smaller, what's the point of that, you'd have more points than where to spend them, and no, you can't have more useful things on top of all that, which you'd probably find bad too and ask to merge or whatever.

[hyoton123]

Uh oh, we’re getting serious now.

[Cassielu]

Just now, xhyom said:

And how would that improve anything? You shouldn't have all the skills in a talent tree, you're not supposed to, that would just make the tree smalled, what's the point of that, you'd have more points than where to spend them, and no, you can't have more useful things on top of all that, which you'd probably find bad too and ask to merge or whatever.

It's not about making her powerful (actually I don't too much care how powerful or weakness anyone is, unless weaker than wes), just making her whole character clearer and more meaningful.

[WenericMember]

59 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Like Wortox, it's a perfect answer to skilltree for me, and despite a little bit of powercreep it's not a big deal in comparison.

For Wendy, best deal of course was invite the designer of wortox to completely rework it, but obviously that's not possible, so I'm left with one suggestion to try to fix it in its current bad state -- merge the repetitive skills and remove the narrow and one-dimensional skills.

• Merge three Pipispooks skill, for three skills to do virtually the same thing is obviously bad. Or make it into something like Winona's shelves, which increase as the number of skill skills you earn Mourning Glory, since most of Wendy's skills now require them.
• Merge Abigail's haunting and scaring, for former already contains the latter.
• Merge Sisturn 1 and 2, for sistun 2 is really useless.
• Merge Sisturn 3 and 4 or remove one of them.
• Merge Resurrection grave, Bigspook grave and Vengeful ghost's feature into 2 skills and one same structure -- (not for skills itself). Skill 1 for allowed crafting grave, and when you bind with this resurrection grave you get Vengeful ghost effect. Skill 2 for allowed is grave spawn Big spook
• Merge building graves and moving graves for they already the same thing unless you are megabaser that need more grave than worldgen.
• Remove resurrection butterfly.

And give shadow skill a little bit of planar damage, in any form any nurmber, just to keep it from being over by lunar in post rift game.

Pipspook skills sre filler. Every tree has them really. Woodie quick picker, wolfgang crits, willows lighter range, etc. They're harmless. Theres a slight difference between terror one one mob on a delay and instantly inflicting AOE terror. Those skills dont need to be merged. Sisturn 2 is a mp skill, and further sanity drain reduction also is useful. Sisturn 3/4 could benefit from a rework, fair enough. Merging 3 skills into 1 is ridiculous. Each of them have at least some use. As one perk itd be obscene. Graves 2 and 3 should be merged, agree there. Live butterflies are important for wendys gameplay loop, as sisturn, grave decoration and shadow 3 depend on it. Shadow dealing planar is a good change too tho.

[Grove]

4 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Sisturn 2 is a mp skill, and furtger sanity drain reduction also ise usefu

I honestly think that it should be its own skill, like vengful spirit. Or it gets merged with one of the ghost skill, with the added effect of making ghosts non aggressive towards other players (if that hasn't been introduced already)

[WenericMember]

Just now, Debruh said:

I honestly think that it should be its own skill, like vengful spirit. Or it gets merged with one of the ghost skill, with the added effect of making ghosts non aggressive towards other players (if that hasn't been introduced already)

Yeah, I agree with that. Plus it has nothing to do with the sisturn. 

I just object to it being merged with the tier one version.

[xhyom]

11 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

It's not about making her powerful (actually I don't too much care how powerful or weakness anyone is, unless weaker than wes), just making her whole character clearer and more meaningful.

What exactly is unclear, what exactly do you want to do with the extra points other than have all the perks at the same time? If this part or that of the tree is so irrelevant that it doesn't deserve the points spent then it can be ignored, if it is not irrelevant and cannot be ignored then it deserves the points spent on it rather than somewhere else.

[Grove]

2 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Yeah, I agree with that. Plus it has nothing to do with the sisturn. 

I just object to it being merged with the tier one version.

In addition to it not having to do anything with the sisturn. If I remember correctly, most skills that are upgrades of one another like Woodie's fast picker, etc that are the same benefit that increases come in sets of three (Sisturn line doesn't 100% fall into this category due to Sisturn |, but eh)