Gestalt Abigail solos Toadstool, Armored Bearger, Dragonfly and much more!

[Steorra]

3 minutes ago, SSneaky said:

Wait until we get a new boss that wipes gestalt aby off the floor realing.

then that gestalt abi would be a completely broken joke - OP for newbie but totally useless for experienced players

[kroban]

7 minutes ago, SSneaky said:

Wait until we get a new boss that wipes gestalt aby off the floor realing.

That will hardly happen, Gestalt abi dodged almost all of these different attacks from many bosses, and even the attacks she can't dodge can be I-frame with the Escape. And thats not even counting that due to how easy it is to farm mourning glory now by the 2nd autumn you are swimming in healing potion

[Dingle]

I'm sad that I missed the start of the Wendy Mental Gymnastic Olympics.

[Tranoze]

25 minutes ago, kroban said:

No it wont, are you really saying that Gestalt Abigail alone would take the exact same time as Gestalt Abigail + vex + Wendy? Even if Wendy were to fight with a fkin spear, by logic it will take less

Bro you dont even watch the video and use it as example because of time stamp. Dude use weather pain to chop trees, if you chop tree normaly ofcourse it gonna take longer, cuz each tree give damage reduction.

Realisticly, would you kill moose + kill some goats for weather pain materials then fight toads for 4 mins,
Or you just fight toad for 8 mins?

[Mysterious box]

49 minutes ago, SSneaky said:

Wait until we get a new boss that wipes gestalt aby off the floor realing.

Then we get character refreshes 3 where the weakest character has a boss instant kill and perks go up from there.

[Demigardenerner]

6 hours ago, Picklesaurus said:

 

Wendy doesn't like getting her hands dirty, Gestalt Abigail supremacy 

It’s not her soloing bosses if your not attacking with her instead sitting back making sure she doesn’t get it so I’d say it’s not op as people 

[Copyafriend]

Oh **** it i'll do the math.

 

(Because it is not in fact broken)

 

For this example i will be comparing wendy with gestalt abigail vs wigfrid

And wendy pre skilltree

And for a final point of comparison, wolfgang

(why not)

Gestalt abigail attacks for 400 damage once every five seconds at night.

This is approximately double the dps from before (abigail did 40 damage a second, x 5 seconds is 200 damage)

(While obviously losing out on Aoe damage)

(Assuming the damage is proportionate across day dusk and night, i cant be bothered to test as no one really cares about non optimal damage)

Key NG - non gestalt

G gestalt

After a full minute

Day

NG - 600 damage 

G - 1200

Dusk

NG - 1200 damage

G - 2400

Nighttime

NG - 2400

G - 4800

Sounds like a lot, and it is, BUUT-

 

A player character attacks once every 0.433 seconds

Assuming a dark sword:

They would attack roughly 138 times in a minute

Totaling:

No damage *

9384

Wigfrid damage * 1.25

11730

Wendy with vex damage * 1.15

10791

Wolfgang damage multi * 2

18768

Wendy WITH NG (night) - 13191

Wendy with G (night) - 15591

 

Wendy is now about halfway between wigfrid and wolfgang in dps, assuming of course constantly keeping up vex (there is in fact downtime)

She is nowhere near as strong as wolfgang or maxwell because wolfgang actually also has his skilltree boosting his dps significantly, and gestalt abigail would suffer immensely from planar protection 

 

 

[Steorra]

16 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Oh **** it i'll do the math.

 

(Because it is not in fact broken)

 

For this example i will be comparing wendy with gestalt abigail vs wigfrid

And wendy pre skilltree

And for a final point of comparison, wolfgang

(why not)

Gestalt abigail attacks for 400 damage once every five seconds at night.

This is approximately double the dps from before (abigail did 40 damage a second, x 5 seconds is 200 damage)

(While obviously losing out on Aoe damage)

(Assuming the damage is proportionate across day dusk and night, i cant be bothered to test as no one really cares about non optimal damage)

Key NG - non gestalt

G gestalt

After a full minute

Day

NG - 600 damage 

G - 1200

Dusk

NG - 1200 damage

G - 2400

Nighttime

NG - 2400

G - 4800

Sounds like a lot, and it is, BUUT-

 

A player character attacks once every 0.433 seconds

Assuming a dark sword:

They would attack roughly 138 times in a minute

Totaling:

No damage *

9384

Wigfrid damage * 1.25

11730

Wendy with vex damage * 1.15

10791

Wolfgang damage multi * 2

18768

Wendy WITH NG (night) - 13191

Wendy with G (night) - 15591

 

Wendy is now about halfway between wigfrid and wolfgang in dps, assuming of course constantly keeping up vex (there is in fact downtime)

She is nowhere near as strong as wolfgang or maxwell because wolfgang actually also has his skilltree boosting his dps significantly, and gestalt abigail would suffer immensely from planar protection 

 

 

Guess I have to say "I prefer Wendy got no DPS buff due to this skill tree but got more surviving ability for abi and more new fun mechanism" as a Wendy mainly.

I won't say "no" to Gelstalt Abi design because it is new and fun, also it is suitable for Wendy (Maybe no? Wendy have said that she can hardly to see abi when she equip enlightened crown, and gelstalt should could attack shadow. the current gelstalt abi seems still a bit strange according to this.)

 

But I would like to say "If we have to sacrifice current Dark sisterhood II & III for more suitable thing, also for more thing which could cover Wendy current downside, I would to do."

QoL is far more important than simple DPS buff, Wendy has extremely problem when facing shadow monsters when their amounts are more than 3+, to buff Wendy DPS with Vex debuff helps nothing on shadow creature, but brings more anti-voices because it only makes ppl feeling "Wow Wendy become more crazy"

Also another downside is when abi dead in battle Wendy just become Wes. (the new abi leveling max elixir is not convenience for end game battle tbh. It's not a good QoL change.)

 

If the skill tree would never have high quality creativities for Wendy, then simple DPS buff would be the only one thing we could have. That would be a sad end for both Wendy mainly and OP haters.

 

[Dingle]

23 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Oh **** it i'll do the math.

 

(Because it is not in fact broken)

 

For this example i will be comparing wendy with gestalt abigail vs wigfrid

And wendy pre skilltree

And for a final point of comparison, wolfgang

(why not)

Gestalt abigail attacks for 400 damage once every five seconds at night.

This is approximately double the dps from before (abigail did 40 damage a second, x 5 seconds is 200 damage)

(While obviously losing out on Aoe damage)

(Assuming the damage is proportionate across day dusk and night, i cant be bothered to test as no one really cares about non optimal damage)

Key NG - non gestalt

G gestalt

After a full minute

Day

NG - 600 damage 

G - 1200

Dusk

NG - 1200 damage

G - 2400

Nighttime

NG - 2400

G - 4800

Sounds like a lot, and it is, BUUT-

 

A player character attacks once every 0.433 seconds

Assuming a dark sword:

They would attack roughly 138 times in a minute

Totaling:

No damage *

9384

Wigfrid damage * 1.25

11730

Wendy with vex damage * 1.15

10791

Wolfgang damage multi * 2

18768

Wendy WITH NG (night) - 13191

Wendy with G (night) - 15591

 

Wendy is now about halfway between wigfrid and wolfgang in dps, assuming of course constantly keeping up vex (there is in fact downtime)

She is nowhere near as strong as wolfgang or maxwell because wolfgang actually also has his skilltree boosting his dps significantly, and gestalt abigail would suffer immensely from planar protection 

 

 

What about Wendy on a beefalo?

[cloudf]

7 minutes ago, Steorra said:

because it is new and fun, also it is suitable for Wendy (Maybe no?

Sigh, this is my opinion, but I really don't like the idea of mutating Abigail at all.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

1 minute ago, cloudf said:

Sigh, this is my opinion, but I really don't like the idea of mutating Abigail at all.

Especially considering they currently look like Wilson's beard, or a certain white fluid... I mean, uh, glue. Yeah, glue. Yep.

[Copyafriend]

9 minutes ago, Dingle said:

What about Wendy on a beefalo?

Fine let me look up the attack period for a player on a beefalo.

0.5 second

A ornery beefalo with a war saddle does 66 damage

So at 120 attacks per minute a d 66 damage a war beefalo does 

7920

Wendy's damage multiplier works on it in a weird way, so if we assume 1.54* damage (1.4 * 1.1 simplified) then the war beefalo does apprx 

12196 damage per minute

Which is approximately 1400 more damage per minute

 

Throwing in gestalt abigail

4800

We get

17996

Just shy of 18000

(Still not completely accurate, theres a downtime for vex damage even post buff)

 

And still weaker than wolfgang without a skilltree. I think this slightly edges out wanda with an alarming clock though id have to check...

Wandas alarming clock (supposedly) attacks about 15% slower than a regular weapon

 

I hate this number because i dont know where this number came from

 

Normal attacks doing 1.15x more attacks is different than the clock dealing 0.85x attacks compared to normal attack speed.

 

Seeing as how i cant be certain which one they meant i will go with the literal interpretation because im gonna assume whoever did the math knew what they were doing, and i cant find a more concrete number than this with a five minute search.

 

138 x 0.85 = 117

 

143 (old wanda w alarming clock) * 117 = 16731

Also since im doing wanda anyway

68 x 138 x 1.75 = 16422 w a darksword

 

Yeah it seems like new wendy off of a beefalo is about tied with (obviously pre skilltree) wanda, but on a beefalo is close but not quite equal to pre skilltree wolfgang

 

Neato

 

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Copyafriend said:

Fine let me look up the attack period for a player on a beefalo.

0.5 second

A ornery beefalo with a war saddle does 66 damage

So at 120 attacks per minute a d 66 damage a war beefalo does 

7920

Wendy's damage multiplier works on it in a weird way, so if we assume 1.54* damage (1.4 * 1.1 simplified) then the war beefalo does apprx 

12196 damage per minute

Which is approximately 1400 more damage per minute

 

Throwing in gestalt abigail

4800

We get

17996

Just shy of 18000

(Still not completely accurate, theres a downtime for vex damage even post buff)

 

And still weaker than wolfgang without a skilltree. I think this slightly edges out wanda with an alarming clock though id have to check...

Wandas alarming clock (supposedly) attacks about 15% slower than a regular weapon

 

I hate this number because i dont know where this number came from

 

Normal attacks doing 1.15x more attacks is different than the clock dealing 0.85x attacks compared to normal attack speed.

 

Seeing as how i cant be certain which one they meant i will go with the literal interpretation because im gonna assume whoever did the math knew what they were doing, and i cant find a more concrete number than this with a five minute search.

 

138 x 0.85 = 117

 

143 (old wanda w alarming clock) * 117 = 16731

Also since im doing wanda anyway

68 x 138 x 1.75 = 16422 w a darksword

 

Yeah it seems like new wendy off of a beefalo is about tied with (obviously pre skilltree) wanda, but on a beefalo is close but not quite equal to pre skilltree wolfgang

 

Neato

 

Thanks for math! Always interesting. Doesn't take into account animation cancelling being a bigger boon for wanda and beefalo, but I dont know those numbers off top of head.

Where is Maxwell in this nowadays?

[Copyafriend]

23 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Where is Maxwell in this nowadays?

No clue, itd be harder to do the math for, a practical test would be a lot easier if someone would oblige me

[WereBruhver]

@Sacco

[Wormboi]

Huh im sure the DST forums are gonna be very normal about this

[Sacco]

21 minutes ago, WereBruhver said:

@Sacco

is it satire or are you serius?

 

I've always said that balance is important for fun.

This is just boring!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pet Rock]

I haven't looked through all the comments so I might say the same thing as someone else, but I think the main issue people have with Gestalt Abigail is how Wendy does not have to actively participate in the fight.

If Abigail would loose aggro if the enemy was not attacked by Wendy in a while, this would do a lot to make Wendy more active in battle, as she would either have to use the attack to command or attack the creature to keep Abigail active in battle in her gestalt form.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

18 minutes ago, Pet Rock said:

I haven't looked through all the comments so I might say the same thing as someone else, but I think the main issue people have with Gestalt Abigail is how Wendy does not have to actively participate in the fight.

If Abigail would loose aggro if the enemy was not attacked by Wendy in a while, this would do a lot to make Wendy more active in battle, as she would either have to use the attack to command or attack the creature to keep Abigail active in battle in her gestalt form.

This is the smartest post I've seen in this thread. Thank you.

[Demigardenerner]

4 hours ago, Steorra said:

then that gestalt abi would be a completely broken joke - OP for newbie but totally useless for experienced players

What newbie is gonna kill cc and not have atleast some experience

[Evelo]

Is it op? Yes.
Does Maxwell exist? Also yes.

Meh. Whatever, DST has been changing. I'm sticking with Shadow Abby anyway cause it's cuter and fits Wendy+Abby better thematically.

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Is it op? Yes.
Does Maxwell exist? Also yes.

Meh. Whatever, DST has been changing. I'm sticking with Shadow Abby anyway cause it's cuter and fits Wendy+Abby better thematically.

This has kind of been weighing on my thoughts lately skill trees have kind of destroyed not only early game balance but also combat balance in general the more I think about it.

[WereBruhver]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

Is it op? Yes.
Does Maxwell exist? Also yes.

Meh. Whatever, DST has been changing. I'm sticking with Shadow Abby anyway cause it's cuter and fits Wendy+Abby better thematically.

The shadow side of Wendy's affinities is also extremely strong, including Shadow Abby, especialy later in the game, your beefalo can hit for up to 137 damage per attack with the new Hex Potion and Shadow Abigail damage can go up to 94 AOE damage per attack when you muder a critter in your inventory, it brings Wendy DPS to Wolfgang levels of damage. 

 

[HowlVoid]

The biggest issue is how this virtually costs nothing. It kinda breaks some fundamental rules of dst about prep work before tackling stronger fights. Darkswords need materials, armor needs materials, healing needs materials. 

There needs to be a cost somewhere... 

[Evelo]

35 minutes ago, WereBruhver said:

The shadow side of Wendy's affinities is also extremely strong, including Shadow Abby, especialy later in the game, your beefalo can hit for up to 137 damage per attack with the new Hex Potion and Shadow Abigail damage can go up to 94 AOE damage per attack when you muder a critter in your inventory, it brings Wendy DPS to Wolfgang levels of damage. 

Right out of the gate, the video is showing animation canceling which most people do not do, others literally cannot do. Second, as stated by Fitzee. Beefalo negates Wendy's only downside which is lower damage. Finally, murder actions, while they stack, require preparation work as stated by Howlvoid. Compared to Gestalt which you have significantly less barrier to entry and can clear more bosses for less effort. Finally, AFW is Wendy's strongest boss fight pre-skilltree because of how well abigail deals with the woven shadows.

Oh final finally, this is done by someone who has clear knowledge of the game and boss fight mechanics, compared to someone who literally does not have to participate at all is able to kill a wide variety of bosses. You are comparing an apple to an orange. Yes, it is powerful. But it is much different in terms of prep and player input.