feedback Overall Walter feedback for his current state

[Mysterious box]

So after playing with him and unlocking things organically here are my overall thoughts. It feels like Walter's gameplay loop has improved significantly at his peak with his slingshot's alt fire also finally feeling like something unique he can do even when compared to other ranged weapons. His new ammo types also offer a fair amount of coverage options.

There are a fair amount of issues that I feel exist with his current gear progression however first of which is that it feels like some of his current upgrades currently locked behind the end game do not feel like their value is at the end game level. The void grip has you killing the ink trio for a 17% attack speed increase. The increase itself is fine but having to kill fuel weaver then face off against the shadow rift's trio just to get that increase makes it feel like it comes far too late for the amount of attack speed it gives.

Next up is the scrappy slingshot it feels like the main reason it's a post rift upgrade is the infinite storage but it falls flat on 2 fronts first the charge attack isn't a significant upgrade from standard shots or the the thulecite alt fire despite coming so late into the game as 2x damage on shot sounds strong on paper but you need to manually aim for that to happen and in the time you charge up your shot you could have done 2.5 to 3 normal shots and this is before even considering the higher chance of you just missing the shot. As for the infinite storage in the slingshot slot that comes with it's own set of issues as well mainly that it causes issues with when you need to swap ammo since a accidental ammo change leads to every ammo over 60 dropping to the floor.  This forcing you to make and carry another slingshot to make use of a single unrestricted ammo type. Finally there's the sticky handle I get the intention of the sticky handle it's so bearger, moose goose, and being wet won't make you drop your slingshot but the way it's implemented guarantees it'll never see use since it's competing with more fire rate which is the main overall complaint of the slingshot to begin with. As for my opinion on how to fix some of these issues I think an additional mod slot on the slingshot should be added and the effects of the current frames broken apart with the charge shot added to the early game. For example the new layout would be:

• Ammo mod slot with a choice of an alt fire slot or infinite storage in your single slot(this one would still require the shard)
• Slingshot fire rate mod slot with the current options
• Slingshot range mods with the current options
• Slingshot unique slot with a choice of the special shot, the charged shot(newly added to the early game), or the sticky handle

Next up are the rounds the main issue I have with them is how intentionally inconvenient their current design is with moon rounds not only requiring you to find the lunar island and fully build the moon glass crafting station but also the need to return to the crafting station any time you want to craft more glass rounds despite there being other areas you could be getting glass from. The same applies to cursed rounds which require you to head back to the pseudo science station every time you want more and this applies to icker rounds as well. Considering just how often Walter is going to need to go for more ammo this feels like a layer that needlessly complicates Walter's ammo production for no good reason and it feels strange when other characters don't have this kind of restriction placed on them.

The other issue would be his ammo storage problem as it stands Walter needs to carry a large amount of ammo for day to day use but he doesn't have a good method of storing it and using it on the fly like he needs which ends up heavily cluttering up his inventory or ends with him just not making use of most of his ammo to save space both of which aren't good outcomes so I think he's in need of a ammo bag ideally one that has a higher than normal ammo storage per slot.

Finally there's Woby but I don't really have much to say on this front since I know it's probably going to undergo a fair amount of changes already however I do think that if bravery ends up staying similar to how it is that the training shouldn't involve you tanking hits with Woby while that works for training a beefalo due to Woby's bucking being based on the number of hits you take that makes it very dangerous for Walter and very frustrating for the player as they try to find safer alternatives to grind the training.

[Reiko24]

Not on-topic but I have a Walter related question.

How do you craft the Moon Glass rounds? I unlocked the skill and they are redded out and locked.

[Mysterious box]

11 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

Not on-topic but I have a Walter related question.

How do you craft the Moon Glass rounds? I unlocked the skill and they are redded out and locked.

They changed it last patch so that you have to go to the lunar island build the moon altar there then craft the glass rounds from that tab and every time you want to craft more you need to go back there to do it which is what I was saying I have a issue with.

This was also done for icker rounds which now require you to go to the shadow plinth and this was after I already had a issue with the fact cursed rounds are already handled this way.

[Mr Giggio]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

moon rounds not only requiring you to find the lunar island and fully build the moon glass crafting station but also the need to return to the crafting station any time you want to craft more glass rounds despite there being other areas you could be getting glass from.

After killing CC we can craft those from base using the celestial orb instead 

[Mysterious box]

41 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

After killing CC we can craft those from base using the celestial orb instead 

True but that's still an extra step that's feel completely unnecessary it feels like at the very least he should be able to learn the recipes there rather than going to either spot every time.

[Mr Giggio]

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

True but that's still an extra step that's feel completely unnecessary it feels like at the very least he should be able to learn the recipes there rather than going to either spot every time.

It feels like progress curves actually that for me is making the gameplay different from the start so it feels accomplishing 

Is one of the reasons why I like Maxwell a lot after Fuelweaver it has another gameplay and Walter not only having infinity ammo slot but being able to craft the ammo on base gives the same style of reward which I think it's healthy for the game

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

It feels like progress curves actually that for me is making the gameplay different from the start so it feels accomplishing 

Is one of the reasons why I like Maxwell a lot after Fuelweaver it has another gameplay and Walter not only having infinity ammo slot but being able to craft the ammo on base gives the same style of reward which I think it's healthy for the game

I'm not saying the journey to unlock the ammo types is what bad though what I'm saying is the fact you never unlock the recipes is what is and that doesn't feel rewarding that's frustrating especially for a character who is going to need to do this constantly even with a infinite slot slingshot even if you ignore the fact you need to kill celestial champion first that's just 1 slot is the idea that I need to make a slingshot for every single locked ammo type then mass craft them until I don't need to visit the station anymore? How is that rewarding? It's not even consistent with how the process is on other characters take Wanda for example almost all of crafts use a part made from thulecite so if we're applying that logic all of her crafts should have to be made at the pseudo science station but they aren't why? Because that would be a terrible experience. Heck it'd be like making Maxwell go to the ruins to each time he wants to refuel the codex umbra.

[Mr Giggio]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Heck it'd be like making Maxwell go to the ruins to each time he wants to refuel the codex umbra

 

24 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

infinity ammo slot

U not listening 

Go once

Get enough ammo for an year

Done

Cuz I do go once a year to farm fuel or clean the ruins anyway its so fine

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

 

U not listening 

Go once

Get enough ammo for an year

Done

Cuz I do go once a year to farm fuel or clean the ruins anyway its so fine

You're not listening there are 3 locked ammos that require 3 different stations and the slingshot only has 1 slot that means you need to farm a years worth of 3 different ammo types and use 3 shards on 3 different slingshots if you want to use them how is this even remotely reasonable?

[Mr Giggio]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

You're not listening there are 3 locked ammos that require 3 different stations and the slingshot only has 1 slot that means you need to farm a years worth of 3 different ammo types and use 3 shards on 3 different slingshots if you want to use them how is this even remotely reasonable?

Cursed rounds has the issue I addressed

Moon rounds has the celestial orb progress

What the other one?

 

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Mr Giggio said:

Cursed rounds has the issue I addressed

This isn't reasonable

Just now, Mr Giggio said:

Moon rounds has the celestial orb progress

Being able to leave it at base so you can craft it is the equivalent of basing at a pseudo science station and saying "see there's no issue I see no problem here"

2 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

What the other one?

Icker rounds which suffers from the same problem as above except also needing bottles and before you say we could just build the shadow plint at the ickers no just no...

[Mr Giggio]

Im not reasoning about this once u dont think the perspective can benefit from a change. U showed u not willing to adapt to his new requirements and we can agree to disagree. Have a good day sir.

[Mysterious box]

Fine but I'm not trying to be inflexible I'm just saying that after crafting them through the appropriate station he should he able to learn it is all.

[Soul7k]

I actually really like charge attack. For one he already has to pull back the sling for a little or he won't even fire and two his normal attacks always felt a little janky to me at least. With the charge shot I feel like I am actually attacking way more consistently and keeping out of danger easier, but maybe that is a me thing

[Mysterious box]

14 hours ago, Soul7k said:

I actually really like charge attack. For one he already has to pull back the sling for a little or he won't even fire and two his normal attacks always felt a little janky to me at least. With the charge shot I feel like I am actually attacking way more consistently and keeping out of danger easier, but maybe that is a me thing

It does feel interesting it's part of why I think it should be thrown into the early game though it isn't very good in terms of dps it is pretty fun in that it makes you feel more tactical in how approach combat especially horde combat and if the thulecite special shot ends up being good in it's own way it'll really add variety to Walter's ranged combat gameplay

[AliceMagtron]

On 11/25/2024 at 11:47 AM, Mysterious box said:

There are a fair amount of issues that I feel exist with his current gear progression however first of which is that it feels like some of his current upgrades currently locked behind the end game do not feel like their value is at the end game level. The void grip has you killing the ink trio for a 17% attack speed increase. The increase itself is fine but having to kill fuel weaver then face off against the shadow rift's trio just to get that increase makes it feel like it comes far too late for the amount of attack speed it gives.

consider walter has hes dog to moving statue in very early game and he can simply range atk fuel weaver behind the wood thorns with the lazy explorer to keep hate velue without trigger any of the difficult part of it(e.g. this video https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1kJBrYREVd/?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0&vd_source=2f013221a3e81798aeb542aa26e6a355 ). also kite shadow rift's trio with ranged weapon shouldnt be a big deal for him. if u still feels hard to kite, just attract all of them long distance enough to make the big guy falling behind and out ouf your loading distance, then u can simply kill other 2 cause they wont fight back. these missions are ez enough

[Mysterious box]

23 minutes ago, AliceMagtron said:

consider walter has hes dog to moving statue in very early game and he can simply range atk fuel weaver behind the wood thorns with the lazy explorer to keep hate velue without trigger any of the difficult part of it(e.g. this video https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1kJBrYREVd/?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0&vd_source=2f013221a3e81798aeb542aa26e6a355 ). also kite shadow rift's trio with ranged weapon shouldnt be a big deal for him. if u still feels hard to kite, just attract all of them long distance enough to make the big guy falling behind and out ouf your loading distance, then u can simply kill other 2 cause they wont fight back. these missions are ez enough

I'm aware that's a thing but cheese should not be how the game is balanced and needing to go into the end game for a 17% attack increase just seems silly to me at least it'd be like locking the hambat behind fuel weaver. Also to clarify I don't struggle with fuel weaver or the ink trio as mentioned above I did a playthrough where I unlocked the items organically to test how it felt to go about his progression.

[AliceMagtron]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

needing to go into the end game for a 17% attack increase just seems silly to me

well even if u have no seeded map/savedata to trigger one of the shadow chess at the frist day. these mission could be finished at the 2nd new moon, which is 21 days + spend a few days to beat fw and wait for trio, cant really tell its late game. well maybe its just cause my playstyle, fw mission is always simpler and faster to finish than celestial mission. besides, just think of other characters like wig, only 5 dmg increase. also abi doesnt work well against bosses after celestial, so something like this skill to make the combat simpler after that for me is good enough. i mean its at least fair u have both new good bullet before and after that, why not try gunpowder bullets?

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, AliceMagtron said:

well even if u have no seeded map/savedata to trigger one of the shadow chess at the frist day. these mission could be finished at the 2nd new moon, which is 21 days + spend a few days to beat fw and wait for trio, cant really tell its late game. well maybe its just cause my playstyle, fw mission is always simpler and faster to finish than celestial mission. besides, just think of other characters like wig, only 5 dmg increase. 

Wigfrid is already powerful at her base while Walter...well we've all seen his slingshot pre skill tree and again this is opening post rift content just to get a 17% increase if it's going to be that way it should be something on the level of the scrappy slingshot's infinite slot or Winona's aligned catapults/infinite power generator, or Wurt's turf staffs.

[Theukon-dos]

An Ammo box would be nice, but all Ammo being prototypable is unnecessary IMO.

 

Keep in mind, you'll only be burning through special ammo if you try to use them as your main caliber. If you save them for emergencies or boss fights, they'll go much further than if you shoot them at everything. How effective they are for emergency use is a different question; looking at you Cursed rounds; but that's for another time. Icky rounds in particular  don't even do damage and last a long time. So a stack of them could probably last you several raid bosses before needing to restock.

 

Not to mention that there are plenty of rounds that Walter can still prototype, including the high damage Marble and Gunpowder rounds, so he's not strapped for options either way.

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

An Ammo box would be nice, but all Ammo being prototypable is unnecessary IMO.

 

Keep in mind, you'll only be burning through special ammo if you try to use them as your main caliber. If you save them for emergencies or boss fights, they'll go much further than if you shoot them at everything. How effective they are for emergency use is a different question; looking at you Cursed rounds; but that's for another time. Icky rounds in particular  don't even do damage and last a long time. So a stack of them could probably last you several raid bosses before needing to restock.

 

Not to mention that there are plenty of rounds that Walter can still prototype, including the high damage Marble and Gunpowder rounds, so he's not strapped for options either way.

Glass rounds are definitely meant for daily use though considering they are aoe rounds and realistically the design space of these rounds and the changes made to the slingshot in general seems to suggest these are meant to be daily use upgrades to existing rounds.

[arubaro]

19 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

An Ammo box would be nice, but all Ammo being prototypable is unnecessary IMO.

 

What if

[AliceMagtron]

On 11/25/2024 at 12:44 PM, Mysterious box said:

They changed it last patch so that you have to go to the lunar island build the moon altar there then craft the glass rounds from that tab and every time you want to craft more you need to go back there to do it which is what I was saying I have a issue with.

This was also done for icker rounds which now require you to go to the shadow plinth and this was after I already had a issue with the fact cursed rounds are already handled this way.

I think klei mainly want to prevent u from carrying a few ingredients that can make the final bullets wherever u want. cause u know the conversion rate is very high for now, they said they will try to belance it but who knows what wait at the end. but at least the orb will have all recipe from altar after u beat celestial champion. so u can craft at your base, it shouldnt be very far.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, AliceMagtron said:

I think klei mainly want to prevent u from carrying a few ingredients that can make the final bullets wherever u want. cause u know the conversion rate is very high for now, they said they will try to belance it but who knows what wait at the end. but at least the orb will have all recipe from altar after u beat celestial champion. so u can craft at your base, it shouldnt be very far.

It's still a level of inconvenience no other character has to deal with like imagine if Maxwell could only refuel his codex umbra with resources that came from a the shadow plint?

[AliceMagtron]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It's still a level of inconvenience no other character has to deal with like imagine if Maxwell could only refuel his codex umbra with resources that came from a the shadow plint?

if u can start with another weaker version of that book which can fill with fuel, i will agree, also u should make the conversion rate even, which is 1 to 40 now. its fair because walter do can craft many of his bullet without a craft station, just not some of the best