Walter and his sanity

[Sunshine.]

A thing that always bothered me was that Walter "the fearless" still drains and gains sanity, like most others, from using magic related items such as dark swords and magiluminescence. I know that this was supposedly done since it overshadowed Maxwell at the time, who would still drain from these things, and the explanation given that magic still affects Walter just like everyone else. 

But I was really hoping that this would be changed again with his Skill tree as it is simply inconsistent. It takes away from his character as you not only have to manage his health to stay sane but also have to take care about what counts as magic and what doesn't - going all out on "Walters entire sanity is tied to his health" would make him a lot more unique and give him another identity - that of the "Oh, just don't get hit and you'll be fine!" crowd. 

Another way to also point out the ridiculousness of current Walters sanity management is how he will not drain from wearing wet items, like a wet flint axe, since he is outdoorsy and doesn't mind it. That fits with his character. However, he DOES drain from a MAGIC item being wet, for example a wet magiluminescence actually makes him loose sanity, even though he has full health and all and it should of course restore sanity if anything as it currently stands. This probably is a bug, and I was only made aware of it today by a Walter main, but it just underlines how it feels rather slapped on to "nerf" him.
 

Arguments could be made whether or not this should be Basekit or tied to a skill (perhaps alignment even) and if this should include rift gear since it could be seen as "stronger" magic but the overall point of perhaps this can be addressed is what I am writing this for.

Ideas and feedback are appreciated and I hope this wasn't too chaotic to read

[arubaro]

Some knowledge can drive people crazy is a theme from the cthulhu mythos which is what inspired klei when creating DS

Walter being fearless is based on how young people act like they are immortal but, when he gets hit acknowledge his mortality

I think is fitting from both thematics him losing sanity from items. Losing sanity from using items isnt about fear

[Cheggf]

I don't think the characters are scared of the concept of magic. 

[Sunshine.]

5 hours ago, arubaro said:

Some knowledge can drive people crazy is a theme from the cthulhu mythos which is what inspired klei when creating DS

Walter being fearless is based on how young people act like they are immortal but, when he gets hit acknowledge his mortality

I think is fitting from both thematics him losing sanity from items. Losing sanity from using items isnt about fear

This is purely a lore point and not gameplay related but I do understand where this take is coming from.

However, Wanda as a character is an antithesis to this since she has full drain at a young age, less middle aged and none during her old age. This is said because of her cognitive decline, for example dementia, since she can simply not understand these things anymore. So it isn't her shadow knowledge preventing it, unlike Maxwell who simply comprehends the incomprehensible horrors since I guess he just knows and is used to them - an odd take on Lovecraftian horror in itself, but her inability to understand that helps her not lose her mind over it.

Walter is very much in the same camp as to simply not understanding these things. He even sees the Shadow Reaper & Maul blink without even being aligned, of course finding it funny, so if anything he seems to have a tendency for it even. He seems to have a general naivety to it all, as if he isn't that affected by it, but still somehow drains just as much as almost everyone else.

On top of that, he does completley ignore the insanity auras of night lights and ancient obelisks, things that are quoted to be magic and in the obelisks case even have ancient incomprehensible writings on them that even Maxwell forgot how to read. For these, Walter simply goes "What does it mean?!" and then proceeds to have no drain whatsoever.

And as a sidenote, he is also oblivious to items that make him gain sanity, for the Enlightend Crown as an example he simply says "It tells me all kinds of stories.", not mentioning the whispers or the power that it seems to posses. If anything, this is a pretty dry quote from Walter who is usually more energetic and childlike. So yeah, it makes no sense for him to gain sanity from magic either and if this is accepted then Wanda in old age shouldn't gain as well based on this line of thought.

 

So yeah with what the game has in terms of lore and quotes regarding these sanity items, it makes no sense how the kid who almost falls into the shadow rift out of blind curiosity and no fear (main menu of shadow rift update, odd to take this into it perhaps but that is another Charaterisation he has) somehow has the same penalty (and upsides) as almost everyone else.

[Radicaljoe]

Back in my day, Walter actually didn't have sanity drain from things like dark swords or night armor. It was cool, and then they took it off Walter and gave that to Maxwell instead.

[Maxil20]

I do feel is this is adjusted, items that positively restore magic should still provide sanity to him. Because the enlightened crown is considered a “magic” headpiece, losing the 10 sanity per minute every other character gets (including Wanda/Max) would be a major hit to him later on.

[Mysterious box]

7 hours ago, Sunshine. said:

A thing that always bothered me was that Walter "the fearless" still drains and gains sanity, like most others, from using magic related items such as dark swords and magiluminescence. I know that this was supposedly done since it overshadowed Maxwell at the time, who would still drain from these things, and the explanation given that magic still affects Walter just like everyone else. 

But I was really hoping that this would be changed again with his Skill tree as it is simply inconsistent. It takes away from his character as you not only have to manage his health to stay sane but also have to take care about what counts as magic and what doesn't - going all out on "Walters entire sanity is tied to his health" would make him a lot more unique and give him another identity - that of the "Oh, just don't get hit and you'll be fine!" crowd. 

Another way to also point out the ridiculousness of current Walters sanity management is how he will not drain from wearing wet items, like a wet flint axe, since he is outdoorsy and doesn't mind it. That fits with his character. However, he DOES drain from a MAGIC item being wet, for example a wet magiluminescence actually makes him loose sanity, even though he has full health and all and it should of course restore sanity if anything as it currently stands. This probably is a bug, and I was only made aware of it today by a Walter main, but it just underlines how it feels rather slapped on to "nerf" him.
 

Arguments could be made whether or not this should be Basekit or tied to a skill (perhaps alignment even) and if this should include rift gear since it could be seen as "stronger" magic but the overall point of perhaps this can be addressed is what I am writing this for.

Ideas and feedback are appreciated and I hope this wasn't too chaotic to read

Honestly I think this would do far more harm than good these days back when dark swords and night armor were some of the better equipments of the game it did feel bad but that's  not the case anymore. But what you would give up if it was unaffected by magic again is the thulecite armors regen and the celestial brown's and during a time when Walter is going to getting hit a lot less than in the past.

[Sacco]

7 hours ago, Sunshine. said:

A thing that always bothered me was that Walter "the fearless" still drains and gains sanity, like most others, from using magic related items such as dark swords and magiluminescence. I know that this was supposedly done since it overshadowed Maxwell at the time, who would still drain from these things, and the explanation given that magic still affects Walter just like everyone else. 

But I was really hoping that this would be changed again with his Skill tree as it is simply inconsistent. It takes away from his character as you not only have to manage his health to stay sane but also have to take care about what counts as magic and what doesn't - going all out on "Walters entire sanity is tied to his health" would make him a lot more unique and give him another identity - that of the "Oh, just don't get hit and you'll be fine!" crowd. 

Another way to also point out the ridiculousness of current Walters sanity management is how he will not drain from wearing wet items, like a wet flint axe, since he is outdoorsy and doesn't mind it. That fits with his character. However, he DOES drain from a MAGIC item being wet, for example a wet magiluminescence actually makes him loose sanity, even though he has full health and all and it should of course restore sanity if anything as it currently stands. This probably is a bug, and I was only made aware of it today by a Walter main, but it just underlines how it feels rather slapped on to "nerf" him.
 

Arguments could be made whether or not this should be Basekit or tied to a skill (perhaps alignment even) and if this should include rift gear since it could be seen as "stronger" magic but the overall point of perhaps this can be addressed is what I am writing this for.

Ideas and feedback are appreciated and I hope this wasn't too chaotic to read

that's magic, not terror.

Thery're teo different things.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Sunshine. said:

This is said because of her cognitive decline, for example dementia, since she can simply not understand these things anymore. So it isn't her shadow knowledge preventing it, unlike Maxwell who simply comprehends the incomprehensible horrors since I guess he just knows and is used to them - an odd take on Lovecraftian horror in itself, but her inability to understand that helps her not lose her mind over it

Not at all. She doesnt lose sanity for the same reason she deals more damage... knowledge and experience 

1 hour ago, Sunshine. said:

On top of that, he does completley ignore the insanity auras of night lights and ancient obelisks, things that are quoted to be magic and in the obelisks case even have ancient incomprehensible writings on them that even Maxwell forgot how to read. For these, Walter simply goes "What does it mean?!" and then proceeds to have no drain whatsoever

That affects characters because fear...unlike using ancient items

[Sunshine.]

2 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I do feel is this is adjusted, items that positively restore magic should still provide sanity to him. Because the enlightened crown is considered a “magic” headpiece, losing the 10 sanity per minute every other character gets (including Wanda/Max) would be a major hit to him later on.

 

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly I think this would do far more harm than good these days back when dark swords and night armor were some of the better equipments of the game it did feel bad but that's  not the case anymore. But what you would give up if it was unaffected by magic again is the thulecite armors regen and the celestial brown's and during a time when Walter is going to getting hit a lot less than in the past.

These are fair points, which is why I would've liked to see it as a skill instead - perhaps the shadow alignment does this as a side effect besides its crafting. Makes him become unfearing in regards to magic himself but also his darkend mind cannot be affected by the moon magic anymore as well. There are many ways to go about this and that could be talked about.

 

1 hour ago, Sacco said:

that's magic, not terror.

Thery're teo different things.

 

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

That affects characters because fear...unlike using ancient items

Again, these are lore reasons and aren't considering gameplay - I don't know who enjoys how his one trait, fearlessness, is so half half'd, most people I talked to just find it odd and annoying that it is this way. But even then, for the lore, doesn't the magic inflict terror? Why do these things drain sanity when by all means sanity is a representation of the survivors comfort and current emotional state - it increases by wearing fancy clothes and eating delicious foods and decreases by being around nasty spiders or eating mystery meats like monster meats etc. so wouldn't the assumption be that wearing these things simply make most uncomfortable with visions or reality unfolding? It would just be a matter of attitude in that regard, which is what Walter has.

Another two funny examples are the Umbralla and the bone helm. Walter drains sanity from having the Umbralla in his hand but not when he puts it on the ground to make the dome effect. And Walter drains sanity from wearing the bone helm itself, but not from all the sanity creatures that approach and scream at him. These are just silly examples that are being defended here so yeah.

 

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

Not at all. She doesnt lose sanity for the same reason she deals more damage... knowledge and experience 

Wanda has the knowledge and experience at all ages. Since she was old, is old, has been old, will be young and old and middle aged all over the time, all the time. She is a time anomaly that isn't quite comprehensible to us since she quotes events as already happening and unfolding while already knowing enemies she has supposedly never seen before etc. etc. 
The one thing that is stable about her is the aformentioned effects of sanity drain and her age. Perhaps her damage increase goes along with being able to withstand more of the horror that these weapons entail so she can maximize their potential. Also, many ways to explain this. But she never changes her quotes (knowledge and experience) based on her age - her knowledge stays the same (and not, and also will be, in the past, present, future etc. etc.)

[GimplyGoose]

I agree that Walter should not be affected by the sanity drain/gain effects from all equipment. If his naivety can protect him from the sanity drain of ancient fuelweaver, it should protect him from the sanity drain of the bone helm too.

[Bumber64]

It should go without saying that fear isn't the only way to lose sanity. Otherwise it would be called the "fear" stat. Only Wortox is actually afraid of garlic.

[arubaro]

9 hours ago, Sunshine. said:

Again, these are lore reasons and aren't considering gameplay - I don't know who enjoys how his one trait, fearlessness, is so half half'd, most people I talked to just find it odd and annoying that it is this way. But even then, for the lore, doesn't the magic inflict terror? Why do these things drain sanity when by all means sanity is a representation of the survivors comfort and current emotional state - it increases by wearing fancy clothes and eating delicious foods and decreases by being around nasty spiders or eating mystery meats like monster meats etc. so wouldn't the assumption be that wearing these things simply make most uncomfortable with visions or reality unfolding? It would just be a matter of attitude in that regard, which is what Walter has.

Isnt incomplete, his downside is only based on fear.

And again, using items dont inflict fear but break your mind. Is hard to keep a conversation if you ignore what we said. Research the tales from the Lovecraft gang and see, klei made the entire ruins and magic tab and the insanity auras inspired by them