I really don't think some of Wendy's Skills have any practical use

[WenericMember]

So Skill Trees (Yay) for Wendy & Wortox (Yay!). First impressions say Wortox's is Good, but Wendy's is just okay. Part of that is the fact that a good number of the skills don't particularly feel like they're that big of a benefit?

The skills in question:

Regular Petals are an incredibly abundant resource, so I don't think there's any benefit to purifying them, especially when they have a much more useful product in nightmare fuel. Purifying Dark Petals -> Mourning Glory would make this skill more worthwhile.

Typically, the difficulty in fighting with Abigail comes from keeping Abbi alive, and not Wendy, in addition using a chest slot for it is already excessive. I think the inverse would actually be better, giving Abigail some additional time in combat, Alternatively, have the armour give Abigail Armour instead of Wendy, justifying the immense cost of a chest slot in combat.

Edit: This one's usable, but kinda weirdly designed.

The problem with Wendy's Potions really isn't their duration, so having three skills dedicated to doubling its duration is a fairly meaningless perk. The potions need stronger effects, as restorative & nostrum last long enough to begin with, while Spectral Cure-All isn't affected at all. I think the tier 3 skill should be either an additional potion or the ability to hold two potions at once.

Grave beautification is a conceptually interesting skill, but as Wendy can't interact with the ghosts in any meaningful way, I question its application for anything other than cheese strats/Farms as the ghosts seemingly infinitely respawn.

Edit: They spawn dark Flowers too. This skill is better than I 'grave' it credit for

Also, feel like Wendy could use a greater number of skills in general. 22 when factoring alignment is really low when comparing to Wortox (with 28) and Walter (with 25). I would appreciate Team Spirit IV (ability to haunt objects), the ability to repair touchstones and A line of skills improving telltale hearts.

Not to make it too negative, but here are some skills I like, thank you Klei for not dooming any survivor to the fate of Wolfgang/Wigfrid:

 

[Jakepeng99]

29 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

The skills in question:

Regular Petals are an incredibly abundant resource, so I don't think there's any benefit to purifying them, especially when they have a much more useful product in nightmare fuel. Purifying Dark Petals -> Mourning Glory would make this skill more worthwhile.

It looks like it might be a downside for some because it removes bee queen crown sainity stations.

[Mike23Ua]

Considering all the really cool crap they added to Wormwood, Wurt and even Winona with their skill trees, from description alone: Wendy’s is sounding like it will be a Major disappointment.

But since I can’t play in betas, I can’t say for sure. What I can say is that I can’t think of any reason ANYONE would want to turn Dark Petals into normal ones.. I mean that just sounds extremely impractical.

Unless there’s some late game rift activity that starts terraforming the world of normal flowers, I’m pretty sure Dark Flowers aren’t that Common.

[Gooba]

I really purifying petals should be the opposite, especially with the 4 evil petals needed for Gravestones, and the TWENTY for the Floral Shroud

It is a beta though so we shouldnt judge too much right now

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, Gooba said:

I really purifying petals should be the opposite, especially with the 4 evil petals needed for Gravestones, and the TWENTY for the Floral Shroud

It is a beta though so we shouldnt judge too much right now

Oh wow, I didn't even think to consider that, yeah this skill just makes me question the whole skill line's existance.

[Jason]

There is room for some of these skills to improve with feedback for sure. They are probably tuned a little low. The reason for that is Wendy is quite strong already. Winona for example got a lot of crazy stuff cause she wasn't a strong character to begin with. That should be kept in mind for all skill trees really. 

[IAmAFurrz]

4 minutes ago, Gooba said:

It is a beta though so we shouldnt judge too much right now

it is beta, it is exactly the time to judge and tell klei to make adjustments lol

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Considering all the really cool crap they added to Wormwood, Wurt and even Winona with their skill trees, from description alone: Wendy’s is sounding like it will be a Major disappointment.

But since I can’t play in betas, I can’t say for sure. What I can say is that I can’t think of any reason ANYONE would want to turn Dark Petals into normal ones.. I mean that just sounds extremely impractical.

Unless there’s some late game rift activity that starts terraforming the world of normal flowers, I’m pretty sure Dark Flowers aren’t that Common.

There's a fair bit of cool stuff. As far as alignment goes, Wendy has a pretty good set of skills, The team spriit line has some cool things, even if not practical vengful ghost is funny. But overall I'd say she just has a bit too much filler in a relatively small skill tree. There are 3 skills dedicated to improving pipspook Payout, which would be whatever, but with strong Brew and Dark Petals lines being pretty much useless in their current state forces pretty much one build on her.

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

There is room for some of these skills to improve with feedback for sure. They are probably tuned a little low. The reason for that is Wendy is quite strong already. Winona for example got a lot of crazy stuff cause she wasn't a strong character to begin with. That should be kept in mind for all skill trees really. 

Yeah, I understand that. I wasn't particularly hoping for anything crazy power wise, just some utility to give her some spice out of combat.

[arubaro]

The dark petal perk would be nice if we encounter dark petals at all... 

Outside of few set pieces or players changing them via ghosts we dont see them often... sad when in DS they were quite common due to full moon changing regular flowers to dark flowers

@JasonWhat about making new moon change regular flowers to dark ones? Would be a nice tribute to DS but fitting with DST lore and i think all new players go crazy when this kind of world changes happens. I remember how i loved to experience change to flowers, mushrooms to mushtrees or werepigs back when i started playing DS. This kind of details contributed to hook me playing to discover more events like these

[Gooba]

22 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

it is beta, it is exactly the time to judge and tell klei to make adjustments lol

You are so much smarter than me im sorry

[Mike23Ua]

11 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Yeah, I understand that. I wasn't particularly hoping for anything crazy power wise, just some utility to give her some spice out of combat.

One of Wendy’s biggest downsides has always been that she hits weaker than other characters, in combat with bosses that becomes irrelevant with Abigail’s Damage Boost, but outside of combat it really screws Wendy over pretty hard.

Especially when it comes to things like Boomerangs, which for almost All characters NOT named Wendy… Can be thrown to knock out Rabbits or Landing Birds in one hit in the super super early game.

Wendy However, will hit them and they’ll just mock her and fly or run away.

I was really hoping they would’ve given Abigail a “Sneak Up on Them and Attack” type of perk, as in… just like when a real human player “haunts” something there ghost disappears into the ground and then shortly afterwards pops back up out of the ground.

Wendy is THE Character with a Permanent ghost follower, I should be able to have Abigail vanish into the ground and pop up unexpectedly on birds, rabbits or vulture.

The 3 Mobs that Wendy can’t kill with normal ranged weapons.

That can also extend to more easily sneaking up on cookie cutters before they can swarm your boat deck etc..

Sure I guess it would make an already powerful character a little more OP, but then again… hasnt that been the entire purpose of all previous skill trees?

[loopuleasa]

Wendy is already strong

She just needs convenience and control and coolness

[arubaro]

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Sure I guess it would make an already powerful character a little more OP, but then again… hasnt that been the entire purpose of all previous skill trees?

It would be simply pointless and an useless perk which only purpose is to denied a little downside that barely affects any body

Btw, she got a perk to command abi to dash to a point. Deals little damage but is something useful

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

Wendy is already strong

She just needs convenience and control and coolness

I don't particularly disagree, it's just the skills I listed aren't any of that.

[Jason]

Something that needs to be said in the skill description somehow.. Evil Flowers will spawn around graves that Wendy decorates. That is an intended new source of Evil Flowers.

[loopuleasa]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Something that needs to be said in the skill description somehow.. Evil Flowers will spawn around graves that Wendy decorates. That is an intended new source of Evil Flowers.

Yes that is important thing to mention that might skew initial perception

dark petals are cool

Maybe have a way to make bq crown sanity stations while at it officially?

[WenericMember]

49 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

One of Wendy’s biggest downsides has always been that she hits weaker than other characters, in combat with bosses that becomes irrelevant with Abigail’s Damage Boost, but outside of combat it really screws Wendy over pretty hard.

Especially when it comes to things like Boomerangs, which for almost All characters NOT named Wendy… Can be thrown to knock out Rabbits or Landing Birds in one hit in the super super early game.

Wendy However, will hit them and they’ll just mock her and fly or run away.

I was really hoping they would’ve given Abigail a “Sneak Up on Them and Attack” type of perk, as in… just like when a real human player “haunts” something there ghost disappears into the ground and then shortly afterwards pops back up out of the ground.

Wendy is THE Character with a Permanent ghost follower, I should be able to have Abigail vanish into the ground and pop up unexpectedly on birds, rabbits or vulture.

The 3 Mobs that Wendy can’t kill with normal ranged weapons.

That can also extend to more easily sneaking up on cookie cutters before they can swarm your boat deck etc..

Sure I guess it would make an already powerful character a little more OP, but then again… hasnt that been the entire purpose of all previous skill trees?

Yeah, the bird situation is weird. The tree is certainly in the right direction, though I think we should push for more powerful skills in the Dark Petals & Potion lines.

On the bright side, while it is currently needlessly weak, most of the perks are actually interesting, unlike Wolfgang who was given a grand total of like 3 mechanically interesting skills.

[Maxil20]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

What about making new moon change regular flowers to dark ones? Would be a nice tribute to DS but fitting with DST lore and i think all new players go crazy when this kind of world changes happens. I remember how i loved to experience change to flowers, mushrooms to mushtrees or werepigs back when i started playing DS. This kind of details contributed to hook me playing to discover more events like these

I genuinely do miss when the full moon did this. I would love to see mushtrees/evil flowers grow during the moon cycle. Perhaps it could be changed so new moons cause evil flowers, and full moons cause mushtrees?

[Lovens]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

The dark petal perk would be nice if we encounter dark petals at all... 

Outside of few set pieces or players changing them via ghosts we dont see them often... sad when in DS they were quite common due to full moon changing regular flowers to dark flowers

@JasonWhat about making new moon change regular flowers to dark ones? Would be a nice tribute to DS but fitting with DST lore and i think all new players go crazy when this kind of world changes happens. I remember how i loved to experience change to flowers, mushrooms to mushtrees or werepigs back when i started playing DS. This kind of details contributed to hook me playing to discover more events like these

I haven't playdd solo DS - can you please elaborate on how it works? Is it a permanent change or only on new moon? If it's a permanent change, that would make regular petals too hard to get, and ruin flower decorations. Unless they make wax spray work on flowers as well. 

[Wormboi]

1 minute ago, Lovens said:

I haven't playdd solo DS - can you please elaborate on how it works? Is it a permanent change or only on new moon? If it's a permanent change, that would make regular petals too hard to get, and ruin flower decorations. Unless they make wax spray work on flowers as well. 

It only last till the full moon is over

[Peasant]

Agreed, seems like klei had failed to realize which one of them is more fragile. Also the shadow allience 3 looks rather lame for me, you have to catch a whole bunch of bees to provide more damage, and have to keep them from starving before meeting the boss…Sounds rather tiring for me

[DVGMedia]

I am going to use this thread as the dedicated wendy thread for the skill tree.

And firstly Just going to talk about how  a lot of the base interactions have changed because of this skill tree Im not sure if it will stay like that or not. one of the main things I kind of don't like is that you can no longer apply potions on abby or abby's flower by dragging potions onto them. I know they changed the potions to be applied by right clicking now in the inventory that is me complaining because of muscle memory. Also the same of dragging abbys flower to abigail to unsummon her from a distance is gone.
Another thing also affecting muscle memory is now abbys flower is a spell book. so you no longer have just quick rile ups soothes or unsummons. So now just controlling abby is more cumbuersome than it was before.  Just things to get used to I feel.

On abigails unique actions of dash spook and escape.
The escape action just seems pointless. You can unsummon her and have the exact same thing happen.  the only difference being you lose her light source. So its a waste of a skill.

If the flower vest triggered abigails shield aswell when Wendy gets hit It would completely solve everything of having abigail be safer in combat with wendy. I think its fine having it locked away behind the flower transmute skill because its a really strong item.

The lunar and shadow affinitys though really are something that needs to be tweaked. The gestalt idea is interesting however I don't think you should be locked from accessing it and removing it.
since right now you can only fix abby with a new moon fountain  and if you don't like the greator gestalt abby  she is stuck  that way for more than an hour.  which im sure players would absolutely hate.

The shadow side Has the longer vex duration and the murder something in your inventory for a burst of damage. These are just things don't see a point in time when you are going to be able to use this in any positive manner.  Gotta take the time to collect creatures seperate them out and then murder them for 55 planar damage.  All this is happening while abby is dying.  only useful against mobs that don't get stunlocked by abby.

And also the potion items.  Frankly we just need to change them to where you can use multiple potions instead of increasing duration.  Most of the time no one uses potions to their max duration anyway. So stacking potions is a better option. Which can give us more options to have new potions Like increasing Abigail's light radius or even bringing back the old version of nightshade where abby does more based on wendys hp.  Giving more potion options with the ability to stack up to 3 different effect at least gives players more reason to farm more glories And allows for a more self curated gameplay That the skill trees are trying to achieve.
Most of the other skills are kind of just boosting collecting glories and the sisturn so not really much changed there  I think the graves is an interesting self building material. that makes it easier to boost wendys powers.


The thing about skilltrees was always that they boost what powers an already existing character did. While also giving a choice for a new way to interact with that character.  there are some of that in here for wendy but It really falls flat. Especially compared to the other two that accompany it.
 

3 hours ago, Jason said:

They are probably tuned a little low. The reason for that is Wendy is quite strong already.

Remember you guys gave us willows skill tree. Many say she over took wendys role in the game. Because of the way fire works her crowd controll powers as well as her gaining free aoe in her spells. So this is your time to make amends.
 

[Sustenance]

8 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Also the same of dragging abbys flower to abigail to unsummon her from a distance is gone

you can still do this

[Anis5240]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

Winona for example got a lot of crazy stuff cause she wasn't a strong character to begin with. That should be kept in mind for all skill trees really. 

Wow, I wonder if Wilson was deemed strong because of his beard.

[Well-met]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

Something that needs to be said in the skill description somehow.. Evil Flowers will spawn around graves that Wendy decorates. That is an intended new source of Evil Flowers.

Can we please have the reskin tool need dark petals to craft then?