Rider Beefalo VS Ornery Beefalo

[_oPt_]

After all these new things we've gotten for the Beefalos, what do you guys think, which one should one choose, Ornery or Rider? Do you think one is better than the other now? Or does it rather depend on the character you are playing? Or do you just prefer the middle point the Default Beefalo?

I've always been a fan of Rider because of their comfort in everyday life, but since I've been playing Maxwell I use Ornery because they fits better with his gameplay based in shadow tier equipment, and now that Ornery finally becomes a true infinite Dark Sword but planar with the new saddle and the new bell that makes tanking less risky and even viable thanks to the damage absorption + planar defense of the saddle(Always being careful of enemies with knockback of course), I'm undecided.. between Rider's facilities but low damage or Ornery's strength but always having to dedicate an inventory space for a stack of grass/twigs to feed them.

[Arcwell]

It's really just preference. You can make good arguments for either one.

Ornery doesn't lose that much speed compared to Rider if you're using glossamer saddle on both (10.85 vs. 12.4), and Rider doesn't lose any damage compared to Ornery if you're using gloomerang/howlitzer on both.
The main downside of Ornery is that it needs to be fed to keep its obedience at 50%+ in order to ride it while the main downside of Rider is that its melee damage is just not worth using compared to alternative beefalo types.
Default beef is also a nice middle-ground if you want to have decent melee damage but don't want the feeding cost of Ornery. Pudgy beef is... well it's cute, so there's that.

Personally I prefer Ornery, but that's because I don't mind the feeding cost and value having beefalo as an infinite durability weapon.

[Ohan]

on survivors with x1 damage ive moved towards ornery in the early game and once the rifts are open and i have a brush ill tame a rider and retire the ornery. 

On survivors with damage modifiers i go straight rider. 

Once ur used to rider+glos, ornery+glos feels like a snail to me. 

To me theres no reason to fight on an ornery anymore once u have repairable armor and weapons and bearger bin to easily store all ur healing and sanity food. 

The benefits that ornery bring pre-rifts get easily replaced by post-rift stuff in my opinion. 

[Radicaljoe]

I usually go rider because I'd rather get to places faster and I hate the feed to ride. If I'm Wendy or Warly I'll go Ornery though because they synergize with beefalo so well.

[Evelo]

I go Rider because I don't want to play as the beefalo. I picked a character, so I am going to play as the character.

[dst_lover]

If I played any of those characters Wendy and Wes and Wilson and Maxwell and Wickerbottom I will choose an ornery beefalo if I will play any other character I will choose a rider 

[Gashzer]

Rider is better no debate.

Needing to feed your beefalo between remounts is the biggest annoyance that beefalo users just happily accept for some mad reason.

The thing is during the whole taming period a hambat is an infinite weapon that does more damage than a untamed beefalo or even an ornery for that matter so you might as well only use a beefalo for travel speed... and travel speed is by far the best reason to tame a beefalo.

This is why Walter is much more powerful than people give him credit for. Speed is  the best thing a beefalo brings to the table. Walter gets that speed for much less cost and he hasn't even got his skilltree yet.

[BezKa]

In long term world, I have both.

[Cruvimaster]

Default + Nightmare Saddle is an improved version of Ornery with the Default Saddle.

For those who were used to the damage of the old Ornery (+50), it will have better damage with Default (+ NS) and without the 45% obedience lock.

The three types of beefalo have advantages and disadvantages and will depend a lot on the character and the player's style of gameplay. In a world of Wes, Wendy or Wilson, Ornery would make sense. In a world of Wolfgang, Rider would make sense.

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Default + Nightmare Saddle is an improved version of Ornery with the Default Saddle.

For those who were used to the damage of the old Ornery (+50), it will have better damage with Default (+ NS) and without the 45% obedience lock.

The three types of beefalo have advantages and disadvantages and will depend a lot on the character and the player's style of gameplay. In a world of Wes, Wendy or Wilson, Ornery would make sense. In a world of Wolfgang, Rider would make sense.

Ornery is only better with Wendy only.

Even a wes is better off using a hambat then upgrading to dark sword which he gets more uses out of for regular combat compared with 1xdamage characters due to wes getting 33% extra uses. And wes being one of the few characters with a day 1 speed boost alongside woodie, wx and Walter. He's one of the characters that taming a beefalo makes his upside (speedy balloon) worthless. Might as well take full advantage of his speedy balloon an not tame a beefalo.

Planar weapons make ornery even less useful in the late game for Wes or any character tbh. 

Ornery is massively overrated.

[xDarkSoul18x]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

I go Rider because I don't want to play as the beefalo. I picked a character, so I am going to play as the character.

I 2nd this. I have the beefalo expresses in my world. I pick rider. The taming process and upkeep, then you got to micro manage bucks. I'd rather just make a Hambat. Which sucks because beefalo are so cool :[ Really only see a plus if you are Wendy, Max or Wes. 

[DegenerateFurry]

Ornery if you like the beefalo combat style, rider if you don't. 

[Dwight34]

10 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Ornery if you like the beefalo combat style, rider if you don't. 

I like the beefalo combat style, I just despise having to feed the dumb beast every single time I want to use it. Even if it was very very late game like the new bell and saddle, I wish there was a way for Ornery to remain at 50% obedience. I feel like other beefalos should receive slight buffs in compensations instead of Ornery being gatekept with a tedious mechanic forever.

12 hours ago, Evelo said:

I go Rider because I don't want to play as the beefalo. I picked a character, so I am going to play as the character.

This is why I don't like some of the "speedrunners/experts" guides on youtube, it's just boring, every video boiling down to "rush beefalo and ruins first autumn" no matter the character is not interesting.

[Mr Giggio]

I would say having a reliable infinite weapon is a good thing to have around at a cost of a twig.

That being said, it has characters that doesnt need that cuz they have a good reliable almost infinite weapon or they benefit more themselves doing the punching.

Which translates for RIDER if Wolfgang/Wanda/Wigfrid due damage multiplier and exclusive weapons, Wurt and Webber cuz their damage doesnt matter as much once they have an army and ORNERY for all the other survivors. Even that Winona has catapults I would say it takes time to set it up and in sketchy situations agains hounds and shadows a boof can help. 

[flamboyant wolf]

I usually go for rider or default cause I find feeding annoying, but I am gonna try taming a few more ornery beefs now and see how I like it with the new equipment. I guess the thing is, I don't usually fight bosses on the beefalo, just regular enemies, so usually don't need high dmg on the beef(though getting the early 50 through ornery does sound nice).

[themightyone]

Ornery for me. The feeding thing doesn't bother me . Use the Glossamer saddle for most day to day stuff , and will switch to the Battle Saddle or War saddle for most boss fights.

 

I usually play as Wormwood lately , so I'll rock the Bramble Husk armor which does an extra 7 damage with each beefalo hit. Combine that with a Battle Saddle and I'm doing 62 damage per hit with 40% damage protection. Makes a solo Bee Queen fight easy peezy.

[_oPt_]

I'm very grateful to everyone for your replies! You've all made some great points!

I find that when I start a new world for the long haul, I enjoy both the speed and comfort of a Rider and the excellent infinite weapon at a constant but low upkeep cost that is Ornery.

At this point.. for me, it depends on my mood or wanting to try something specific(like being able to attack while holding Shadow Thurible as Maxwell or keeping Inspiration while riding as Wigfrid) that I choose one or other, but I feel I enjoy playing with both, each has their strong advantage and their strong disadvantage. I feel like if suddenly one of the 2 had to leave, oof I really have a hard time saying goodbye to one... I can't! xD

But I really like that they are so adaptable for each type of player and your excellent answers only confirm that for me.

Thank you all so much for your participation! 

[readkey]

On 9/24/2024 at 9:52 PM, Gashzer said:

Ornery is only better with Wendy only.

Even a wes is better off using a hambat then upgrading to dark sword which he gets more uses out of for regular combat compared with 1xdamage characters due to wes getting 33% extra uses. And wes being one of the few characters with a day 1 speed boost alongside woodie, wx and Walter. He's one of the characters that taming a beefalo makes his upside (speedy balloon) worthless. Might as well take full advantage of his speedy balloon an not tame a beefalo.

Planar weapons make ornery even less useful in the late game for Wes or any character tbh. 

Ornery is massively overrated.

I would like to point out that some people tame ornery as a tank because of the character’s downside, such as Wormwood and Walter, not for the damage. 

On 9/25/2024 at 8:49 AM, Dwight34 said:

Even if it was very very late game like the new bell and saddle, I wish there was a way for Ornery to remain at 50% obedience.

Actually, I thought this could be put into Wigfrid’s skill tree when people were discussing about her beefalo branch. 

[NoodlemanNed]

rider > default > ornery > pudgy

thats the beefalo ranking i stand by and will defend to my very last breath

[Gashzer]

6 hours ago, readkey said:

I would like to point out that some people tame ornery as a tank because of the character’s downside, such as Wormwood and Walter, not for the damage. 

This makes sense for wormwood. But Walter is the only character that has beefalo utility (speed, negating piggyback penalty and carrying statues) without needing to start the taming beefalo process.

Walter taming a beefalo has been popularised by streamers but this is the complete opposite of what the character is designed to do.

Im a Walter main. If u tame a beefalo as Walter it means u have a massive lack of understanding of what Walter brings to the roster. His downside is negated by using his pinecone hat + body armour, simple as. He's a character were u want all the utility of a beefalo without the tedious bucking/taming process, taming a beefalo removes all benefits Walter gives you.

Its shocking that barely anyone else who mains Walter understands this.

[RozeMeteor]

10 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

This makes sense for wormwood. But Walter is the only character that has beefalo utility (speed, negating piggyback penalty and carrying statues) without needing to start the taming beefalo process.

Walter taming a beefalo has been popularised by streamers but this is the complete opposite of what the character is designed to do.

Im a Walter main. If u tame a beefalo as Walter it means u have a massive lack of understanding of what Walter brings to the roster. His downside is negated by using his pinecone hat + body armour, simple as. He's a character were u want all the utility of a beefalo without the tedious bucking/taming process, taming a beefalo removes all benefits Walter gives you.

Its shocking that barely anyone else who mains Walter understands this.

Respect for you but we know quite well that character design never aplied in how people play, it's a shame really but that's how it works nowdays.

[Dwight34]

16 hours ago, readkey said:

I would like to point out that some people tame ornery as a tank because of the character’s downside, such as Wormwood and Walter, not for the damage.

It's also a convenience tank, especially as Maxwell. No need to be really careful about most things, as the 1000hp (and far more if you get the late game new saddle) and the massive speed allows you to get out of bad situations easily and without using any healing, armor or weapons. And as Maxwell, it means maximum damage because you don't have to switch to a cane to dodge lowering your duelist damage, you can have the full 56 or 60 damage bonus with late game gear, AND attack with big damage AND dodge with your duelist constantly being at max damage.

My biggest gripes with beefs are QoL issues, like the need to always feed Ornery before mounting, or the stupid things beefalos do like rushing to your position to prevent you from opening your chest, placing things or seeing what's there if your beefalo bell is less than an entire screen away. Who the hell has ever liked this stupid feature of the beefalo rushing to you to block your view? It would at least make sense if it was an indication of the beefalo wanting you to hop on, but no, they do that even if they refuse to let you hop on. On the other hand to annoy you in the opposite way, if you're in the middle of nowhere and hop off to feed the beefalo some healing food, for a few seconds he'll run away from you then stop. Doesn't seem that complicated to me to just have the beefalo stay within a 1.5 to 2 tiles distance of his beefalo bell.

[readkey]

39 minutes ago, Dwight34 said:

My biggest gripes with beefs are QoL issues, like the need to always feed Ornery before mounting, or the stupid things beefalos do like rushing to your position to prevent you from opening your chest, placing things or seeing what's there if your beefalo bell is less than an entire screen away. Who the hell has ever liked this stupid feature of the beefalo rushing to you to block your view? It would at least make sense if it was an indication of the beefalo wanting you to hop on, but no, they do that even if they refuse to let you hop on. On the other hand to annoy you in the opposite way, if you're in the middle of nowhere and hop off to feed the beefalo some healing food, for a few seconds he'll run away from you then stop. Doesn't seem that complicated to me to just have the beefalo stay within a 1.5 to 2 tiles distance of his beefalo bell.

I think it is on purpose that Onery needs to be fed before you can ride on it, given that Ornery provides the utilities you mentioned. 

[Ridley]

On 9/24/2024 at 1:29 PM, Evelo said:

I go Rider because I don't want to play as the beefalo. I picked a character, so I am going to play as the character.

I've started taming Pudgy for the same reason. It does a good enough job of moving heavy stuff around which is all I wanted it for. Might as well be a cute lawn ornament.

[Dwight34]

2 hours ago, readkey said:

I think it is on purpose that Onery needs to be fed before you can ride on it, given that Ornery provides the utilities you mentioned. 

Definitely, but the issue is that it isn't a challenge, simply an annoyance with no way for the player to ever permanently solve. Ornery being so overwhelmingly considered the best except for the annoyance part points to a lack of balance between the types of beefalos, which is why I'd rather see the other types reworked/buffed and have a way to remove the tediousness of feeding the Ornery.

Something like the rider beef actually being boosted by roads, or the pudgy being so fat and fluffy that staying near it acts as insulation, those are random ideas but I definitely think they could use some fun gimmicks to make them more attractive.