Keknutui Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 I will try to describe the advantages of each weapon. The Gloomerang Positive: You get it earlier High rate of fire Additional running speed Greater DPS Minuses: It is not always possible to deal a lot of damage when the enemy is moving Requires repair The Howlitzer Positive: Permanent good damage Does not require repair Minuses: Very expensive ammunition Very late receipt in the game No interaction with the helmet After this small comparison, I thought about the current state of the Howlitzer as it is much inferior to the new weapon.I hope you and your team can make this weapon better and I have some suggestions. When wearing a helmet, add a 25% chance of not spending a hound's tooth. Add 5 planar damage as it happens with the brightshade sword. Hopefully, this will change this weapon for the better. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
grm9 Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 you don't need to ping devs every time you make a post Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
arubaro Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 Powercreep One of the biggest problems and balance breaking is how cheap is to repair everything. The dst i knew had a wonderful risk/cost/effects/downsides-reward balance, now there are little downsides, little costs, everything is good in most scenarios ... is boring Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keknutui Posted August 25, 2024 Author Share Posted August 25, 2024 5 minutes ago, grm9 said: вам не нужно пинговать разработчиков каждый раз, когда вы публикуете сообщение Yes, it makes sense. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohan Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 25 minutes ago, Keknutui said: When wearing a helmet, add a 25% chance of not spending a hound's tooth. Add 5 planar damage as it happens with the brightshade sword. I like these ideas! i think it would also be nice if hounds teeth could stack higher than 40 inside the howlitzer. At least to 80 although 120 would be awesome. it would just make it more comfortable to use. Ive seen people say gloomerang has 150 uses and its fully repaired by a single repair kit. —— Potential Howlitzer buffs aside, i think the gloomerang needs to be made weaker and/or more expensive. The crafting recipe is waaaay too cheap and so is repairing it. i thought maybe it could require a guardian horn since its kind of shaped like a boomerang. Or the boomerang could drain HP and/or sanity for every swing. or repair kits could be made less efficient on it, only repairing 50% instead of 100%. Its total uses could be lowered too to be honest 150 is very high. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 Now I know this would slightly ruin the themeing but how about we solve 2 problems with 1 fix how about we also allow the howliterz to also use bone shards? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruvimaster Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 1 hour ago, Keknutui said: Hopefully, this will change this weapon for the better. Considering that Beta is dedicated to caves, I think it's easier for Klei to nerf Gloomerang than to improve Howlitzer. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOS-Ouroboros-K Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 There's only one answer: I want them all. My personal thought is that if the design direction of Gloomerang should be mainly for stationary objects, such as Brightshade. Then the corresponding Howlitzer should strengthen its striking ability in the corresponding moving object, in addition to ammunition saving and magazine expansion, it can also increase the effect of deceleration, shorter attack animation, and longer range. I guess. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruvimaster Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 18 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Now I know this would slightly ruin the themeing but how about we solve 2 problems with 1 fix how about we also allow the howliterz to also use bone shards? Wilson can be used to craft Hound's Tooth. Of course the cost is doubled for this (2x1). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 Just now, Cruvimaster said: Wilson can be used to craft Hound's Tooth. Of course the cost is doubled for this (2x1). Oh no you mentioned Wilson synergy the Wilson squad is coming for me now.... All jokes aside this would still be great for people who aren't Wilson and want to use the howliterz as bone shards will become more accessible for cave basing after this update. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruvimaster Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 1 minute ago, Mysterious box said: Oh no you mentioned Wilson synergy the Wilson squad is coming for me now.... All jokes aside this would still be great for people who aren't Wilson and want to use the howliterz as bone shards will become more accessible for cave basing after this update. I think your suggestion is very good. Currently, to be viable using the Howlitzer, the player would have to use the Varg Farm. The item becomes extremely powerful for those who have this farm. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxil20 Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 33 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Now I know this would slightly ruin the themeing but how about we solve 2 problems with 1 fix how about we also allow the howliterz to also use bone shards? I do think that if they were to do this, either hounds teeth/bone shards inside should have a max stack cap of ~100 or so. One of the biggest issues that the howlitzer has is only being able to hold one stack at a time, and bone shards especially suffer from this because they only stack to 20… Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 2 minutes ago, Maxil20 said: I do think that if they were to do this, either hounds teeth/bone shards inside should have a max stack cap of ~100 or so. One of the biggest issues that the howlitzer has is only being able to hold one stack at a time, and bone shards especially suffer from this because they only stack to 20… It seems you've experienced a day in the life of a Walter player...they need to raise the caps all around at this point. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxil20 Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: It seems you've experienced a day in the life of a Walter player...they need to raise the caps all around at this point. At least Walter tried with the exclusive 60 stacks : P But yeah, a higher cap in general for items that use ammo would be really nice. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 Just now, Maxil20 said: At least Walter tried with the exclusive 60 stacks : P But yeah, a higher cap in general for items that use ammo would be really nice. 60 stacks might sound good but it's horrible especially when it comes to curse rounds which you have to be at the ruins to craft but yea let's hope for a higher count in general personally my hope is that Walter's ammo gets to stack to 150 in the future so it's at least weapon tier. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakepeng99 Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 1 hour ago, Keknutui said: I will try to describe the advantages of each weapon. The Gloomerang Positive: You get it earlier High rate of fire Additional running speed Greater DPS Minuses: It is not always possible to deal a lot of damage when the enemy is moving Requires repair The Howlitzer Positive: Permanent good damage Does not require repair Minuses: Very expensive ammunition Very late receipt in the game No interaction with the helmet After this small comparison, I thought about the current state of the Howlitzer as it is much inferior to the new weapon.I hope you and your team can make this weapon better and I have some suggestions. When wearing a helmet, add a 25% chance of not spending a hound's tooth. Add 5 planar damage as it happens with the brightshade sword. Hopefully, this will change this weapon for the better. I agree. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dois raios Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 At first I thought the gloomerang was weak, but seeing the interaction distance x damage, I realized it is too strong since it doesnt have any need for maintanence, I think it needs some changes to make it more balanced, right now, I think it is so useful and strong that most people when they realize the power of gloomerang, they wont use the shadow reaper anymore. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wormboi Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 12 minutes ago, dois raios said: At first I thought the gloomerang was weak, but seeing the interaction distance x damage, I realized it is too strong since it doesnt have any need for maintanence, I think it needs some changes to make it more balanced, right now, I think it is so useful and strong that most people when they realize the power of gloomerang, they wont use the shadow reaper anymore. This is one of the few rare times were a long ranged weapon beats out a melee one in DST. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 Just now, Wormboi said: This is one of few rare times were a long range weapons beats out a melee one DST. Makes sense when you consider it's a weapon that breaks all the previously established rules of ranged combat. Considering how it works it punches above stronger weapons too when you think about it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmAFurrz Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 3 hours ago, arubaro said: Powercreep One of the biggest problems and balance breaking is how cheap is to repair everything. The dst i knew had a wonderful risk/cost/effects/downsides-reward balance, now there are little downsides, little costs, everything is good in most scenarios ... is boring i think you are mistaking progression for powercreep... its not unlikely that these will be the only weapons we could get for the foreseeable future, and rift bosses are lining up to be a lot more powerful with planar stuff in place. ranged weapon having ok uses is not powercreep, it finally has decent uses unlike the pathetic excuses for 'ranged weapons' pre-rift, while melee still does a lot more dps with more risk envolved (not that ranged is completely risk free). and everything being good in most scenarios... is that true? post-rift, shadow side is a lot more combat oriented while lunar side is more tool oriented (brightshade sword has power but now shadow side has better offense). items have a job they do, and they do them well. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 15 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said: i think you are mistaking progression for powercreep... its not unlikely that these will be the only weapons we could get for the foreseeable future, and rift bosses are lining up to be a lot more powerful with planar stuff in place. I can't stand arubaro as a person, but he's right. I think it is powercreep. Klei saw that with howlitzer, range wasn't such a broken thing to have in game. Actually, people have been rather deterred to use it because of the space ammunition takes in the inventory, but that's ok, because with how powerful howlitzer is, you could deal with certain logistical issues. Hounds teeth aren't that hard to get, but if you have tons of hounds teeth, every single boss is at your mercy. But effectively, the gloomerang has 150 "ammo" per slot. And one repair kit provides another 150 ammo. And the DPS is close enough to put them as "even" It's really unfortunate for how fun the gloomerang has been to use, but it has to be looked into. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmAFurrz Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 27 minutes ago, chirsg said: But effectively, the gloomerang has 150 "ammo" per slot. And one repair kit provides another 150 ammo. And the DPS is close enough to put them as "even" yea this part is a lot of uses for how much repairs cost 28 minutes ago, chirsg said: Klei saw that with howlitzer, range wasn't such a broken thing to have in game. so thats why they let wandas design go through i think as of right now it does do a lot yes, but considering the new axe's power, basically letting you live forever and how easy it is to maintain (bundle wrap is a bitch), i suspect that future bosses HAS to be a lot more difficult, and if they move around a lot i think they will also be moving around a lot Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brotid01 Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 Don't forget to even have Spark arc an essential material to craft the Holwlitzer you need to kill 3 different mutated bosses, 2 of them in different seasons then go to archives for the spark and get the other materials as well of course not counting all the celestial champion shenanigans. On the other hand, the moment you unlock shadow rifts you'll be able to craft a Gloomerang with no more requirements or especial materials. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echsrick Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 what if you compare it to the moon energy shoting staff? its what i think sould be compared to even if i rather had an dark staff Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
arubaro Posted August 25, 2024 Share Posted August 25, 2024 2 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said: i think you are mistaking progression for powercreep... its not unlikely that these will be the only weapons we could get for the foreseeable future, and rift bosses are lining up to be a lot more powerful with planar stuff in place. ranged weapon having ok uses is not powercreep, it finally has decent uses unlike the pathetic excuses for 'ranged weapons' pre-rift, while melee still does a lot more dps with more risk envolved (not that ranged is completely risk free). and everything being good in most scenarios... is that true? post-rift, shadow side is a lot more combat oriented while lunar side is more tool oriented (brightshade sword has power but now shadow side has better offense). items have a job they do, and they do them well. But dst's progression never was "use this because is the best option" Planar enemies arent that big of a deal when you stack planar armor, lets see if with the future "progression" we get even higher armor without even taking account how some characters are getting passive planar armor (like wigfrid with her helmet, planar armor pasive on top of her dumb natural armor) Yes, the rift gear, both sides, are good without any drawback, only upsides which goes against what i loved about dst (except few exceptions of items that excels) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159321-the-howlitzer-is-inferior-to-the-gloomerang/#findComment-1743630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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