Tenedas Posted July 15, 2024 Share Posted July 15, 2024 Hey, DLC is a couple of days away and i was playing around in debug mode with new stuff when i realized: The Specific Heat Capacity of Snow/Ice is half of their liquid counterpart (water) This statistics on water element have been the same for ages but actually on a frozen themed DLC feels even harder to keep the cold intact. For every melted snow/ice tile double the heat will be introduced into the system and there isn't any natural means to keep the asteroid cold. This will speed up even more the heating process of the whole asteroid. Things like snow tiles will be a very niche use case probably when exploring the frozen asteroid in spaced out on first landing or similar. Yet another "feels bad" moment for me on this DLC. What's your thought about it? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158302-snowice-specific-heat-capacity/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted July 16, 2024 Share Posted July 16, 2024 ONI is a kind of "catastrophe simulation". Accelerating effects like this one are beneficial for that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158302-snowice-specific-heat-capacity/#findComment-1735706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoDeusMachina Posted July 16, 2024 Share Posted July 16, 2024 15 hours ago, Tenedas said: The Specific Heat Capacity of Snow/Ice is half of their liquid counterpart (water) That is also what it is in "real life". ONI phase change mechanics is quite simplified though, and does not consider any latent heat of fusion / evaporation required for phase transition. In any case, it results is sometimes quite "unrealistic" behaviors, but that's just how ONI is. It has its own set of rules that are often a result of simplifying assumptions like this one. We just have to learn how to work with (or sometimes against...) them Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158302-snowice-specific-heat-capacity/#findComment-1735710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenedas Posted July 16, 2024 Author Share Posted July 16, 2024 3 hours ago, Gurgel said: ONI is a kind of "catastrophe simulation". Accelerating effects like this one are beneficial for that. I can understand that and i definitely know that ONI is not real life simulation and have its own set of rules. The question was related to this "frosty" dlc. We already don't have any natural heatsink to guarantee the asteroid stays cold (made exception for the CO2 geyser with its disarming 0.846 heat capacity) Realizing that the melting process itself will just speed up the heating by design was just disarming At this point to me either Klei will do a great job with the story trait or this dlc will be basically meaningless. It's so meaningless they had to make snow tiles insulated to be viable and basically past cycle 100 everything can be thrown away except some mercury for lights and maybe 1/2 ranches with the new critters Finger crossed for the story trait at this point there's still a chance Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158302-snowice-specific-heat-capacity/#findComment-1735774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
asurendra Posted July 16, 2024 Share Posted July 16, 2024 Just dont allow them to melt, and everything will be fine. Klei give us new early game tools to control temperature especially for that. Thats cool that you actually need to do something except basic "food/oxygen" in early game. Space out was quite boring in that aspect... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158302-snowice-specific-heat-capacity/#findComment-1735779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenedas Posted July 16, 2024 Author Share Posted July 16, 2024 2 hours ago, asurendra said: Just dont allow them to melt, and everything will be fine. Klei give us new early game tools to control temperature especially for that. Thats cool that you actually need to do something except basic "food/oxygen" in early game. Space out was quite boring in that aspect... i can see that's fun to preserve the cold biome but to what end? why the struggle to keep it up, what reward is in there after early game? And honesty i don't see these new tools klei gave to us. They only introduced the ice maker that produce snow and sounds more like a "patch" to on oversight in the DLC design more than a new tool. Could you be more specific on what tools they gave us to enforce cold? probably i am missing something, not sure. That's why i am here to exchange opinions Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158302-snowice-specific-heat-capacity/#findComment-1735810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachunga Posted July 16, 2024 Share Posted July 16, 2024 The ice maker got a huge buff. It used to delete 4 kdtu/s for the cost of 60W. It now deletes 64 kdtu/s for 240W or 267 dtu/s/W. By comparison, a hydrogen thermo regulator moves 140 dtu/s/W and a water thermo aquatuner moves 488 dtu/s/W. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158302-snowice-specific-heat-capacity/#findComment-1735823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
asurendra Posted July 18, 2024 Share Posted July 18, 2024 On 7/17/2024 at 2:31 AM, Tenedas said: i can see that's fun to preserve the cold biome but to what end? why the struggle to keep it up, what reward is in there after early game? Rewards are new critter and plants, alive and productive. They can keep alternative production chains forever Quote And honesty i don't see these new tools klei gave to us. They only introduced the ice maker that produce snow and sounds more like a "patch" to on oversight in the DLC design more than a new tool. Could you be more specific on what tools they gave us to enforce cold? Buffed Ice-maker as wachunga said. Also they removed minimum building temperature. Plus critters produce material on their body temperature so new rancho cools down surroundings just by itself. And new oxygen production method that doesnt heat anything. All old ones do. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158302-snowice-specific-heat-capacity/#findComment-1736180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniDeathStar Posted July 18, 2024 Share Posted July 18, 2024 1 hour ago, asurendra said: Buffed Ice-maker as wachunga said. Also they removed minimum building temperature. Plus critters produce material on their body temperature so new rancho cools down surroundings just by itself. And new oxygen production method that doesnt heat anything. All old ones do. Also Nectar that you can put in an aquatuner, with the same SHC as water but can go to -82°C before freezing. There is also a guaranteed AETN on the map I think. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158302-snowice-specific-heat-capacity/#findComment-1736192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenedas Posted July 18, 2024 Author Share Posted July 18, 2024 6 hours ago, MiniDeathStar said: Also Nectar that you can put in an aquatuner, with the same SHC as water but can go to -82°C before freezing. There is also a guaranteed AETN on the map I think. This is really a nice addition that i didn't notice. Yet I was hoping to fight the cold as we do for the heat, instead we get to make cold "better" xD Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158302-snowice-specific-heat-capacity/#findComment-1736254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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