Hardmode is not the way to go.

[abrocator]

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

This isnt stardew valley neither animal crossing

The game is defined by how people play it. Not whatever the designers intended.

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, abrocator said:

The game is defined by how people play it. Not whatever the designers intended.

I cant do a boss rush in the games i mentioned

[Mysterious box]

10 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

This is a very flawed logic as game can always be made easier to allow more players to get to endgame

A game can always be made easier noone is questioning that the question is should it? And if so what's the easiest a game should become?

 

10 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I do think that skill trees aren't helping new players reach end game because it takes much more to get that far, DST isn't a game you can "complete" in 100 hours.

I would argue the real reason is skill trees don't help players get better at the game in a meaningful way what is preventing them from getting better at least in my opinion is all the information that's currently hidden from player and the game not encouraging players to take risks as much.

10 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

DST has always been too difficult so that is why we are getting character refreshes (big buffs) and skill trees (another series of big buffs) even though DST is a massive game most players can't get to the endgame for a reason.

Most of that difficulty however did not coming from the game itself being dark souls level hard but from the game not properly teaching you how to survive which has always been defended as the experience if the goal was to make the game more accessible that needs to change rather than just throwing extremely powerful toys at people and hoping they'll bulldoze their way to the end game despite not learning how to handle it. Skill trees are fun I've said it myself plenty but if the goal of them is to help new players I don't think they're going about it in the right way.

10 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Why not have them unlock from the get go so that skill trees are more helpful to new players if that was the issue?

If new players need the skill trees then the wrong issue is being fixed the base game should be more approachable to new players not just a specific character.

10 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The issue I have with this is that a big part of skill trees is adding what is needed for specific characters to be decent or good, If skill trees were meant to be after rifts we wouldn't get so many perks that are only useful early game or specific perks that make characters much more enjoyable that players have been requesting for years to be added to their kit.

 

That just highlights a issue I keep bringing up skill trees should not be needed to fix what's wrong with a character they should build on what's already a solid foundation if a character has a problem that should be resolved outside of the skill tree and honestly skills that are only useful in the earliest part of the game probably should be base kit to begin with. To put it in perspective it feels bad on some characters where you need specific skills to have a decent experience it's the main reason I like Wurt's skill tree you don't "need" anything from it you just want things there's no one best way with her.

17 hours ago, Milordo said:

Well no, I don't think current skill trees are balanced for the early game but neither well thought at anything. Like, I don't even want to use the term balance with those system because it's already out of the window, the skill trees are not designed to a precise moment of the game, as they cover pretty much everything, early-game, mid-game and end-game. After that I don't get your point and what you're trying to say to me. You could rework the skill trees to be better integrated to the game (I would directly remove them but oh well...) so they're not a problem anymore. Keep going the philosophy of 2019-2022 era into balance and polish all the game. The list of how many things need to be fixed in the game is immense and dense and people keep coming again and again asking those things to be fixed. In conclusion I would move all the rifts content into the game since there is no reason to not have acid rains in the caves before rifts as well the new shadows in the ruins. This is just an example but a try to explain why I said "Also I disagree that "hard mode" is the only direction the game can go"  

Honestly I can picture in my head how post rift content could be worked into the early game for example acid rains could happen in summer and lunar hail could happen in winter but that would simply raise the barrier of entry to the game even higher for newer players so I understand why they're locking away newer major content until people are ready for it.

[00petar00]

20 hours ago, grm9 said:

what's the definition of decent in this context?

The definition of decent player for DST to me is someone that can kill all bosses without cheesing but still using some crutches like weather pains for FW or pan flute for BQ.

20 hours ago, grm9 said:

only because of interacting only with old stuff that didn't get changed yet, they mostly only made the game easier through skill trees that you can not use and only adding easy bosses after 2017 except CK that got practically removed now, i only didn't stop playing the game yet because of making own boss and character reworks at this point through mods, otherwise i probably would've because almost everything that they added since 2019 sucks and i usually don't interact with that unless i get nothing to do before day 21 for pieces

I personally wouldn't be able to continue playing game that has been receiving updates for 5 years If I didn't like or even actively dislike them. DST is insanely difficult game compared to most games I play and while some have high mastery ceiling it is often the case that there is options in regards to difficulty so new players can easily get into it.

20 hours ago, grm9 said:

i'm not even sure about how's that related to what i said, i thought that it'd be pretty obvious that asking for hard things means asking for things that're hard and similar in comparison to other hard things that they made previously that were fun

That is very subjective, the things that you found fun may have been something I disliked like boss HP and repetitive mechanics so players use wanda/wolfgang or other characters and strategies to bypass them. The fight I least enjoy is misery toadstool because of said HP and the difficulty lies in how prepared you are there is much less skill required compared to most bosses.

18 hours ago, Antynomity said:

Yes, it has shifted a long time ago, but the updates pre-From Beyond/Maxwell Rework and post-Maxwell Rework/From Beyond is a huge difference, it wasn't a further shift it was a total 90 degree instantaneous change in direction, balancing philosophy and design philosophy both for a lot of world content and character updates.

I could bet quite a bit that if they just took their time with the further 'shift' it wouldn't have been nearly as bad.

Also, I do not plan to 'quit'. I will keep saying what I think needs to be said for as long as I have the time and patience to do so. I paid for this game just like you, and to be told to suck it up or quit is disheartening.

That's the whole point of the forums, to provide feedback and insight to the developers of how different players play, and feel while playing the game.

Klei has made a decision and it would be a mistake in my opinion to turn back on it now, If they wanted a difficult game they wouldn't have continued to make it easier which is probably a good decision if they want more players since majority of gamers are casuals and that means more money too.

I don't think I ever said directly that you should quit but to either adapt or accept the game direction and If you can't do that it would be better to quit as it isn't going to change.

18 hours ago, grm9 said:

no, they can just keep everything optional like how they did previously, they can add optional hard things e.g. bosses that for some reason people think're required to kill even though there's no goal in the game and optional easy things e.g. skill trees but at this point they only add easy stuff so yeah seems like anyone that liked the game a few years ago needs to stop playing it to halve amount of people playing it

A lot of survival players are very against bosses being considered as difficult content because it is optional. Survival content isn't optional to me or other players that enjoy other parts of the game, I can't turn rifts off If you activate them on the server I play, surface rifts are fine but I am still against cave rifts because it doesn't seem worth.

Another point that I'd like to make is that I can't choose not to play without wildfires or other mechanics that I don't find fun unless I host myself and basically change the default options that most players expect and that is what you can get when you start playing on most of the public or private servers that others host.

10 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

A game can always be made easier noone is questioning that the question is should it? And if so what's the easiest a game should become?

As long as making the game easier brings more players compared to the ones that leave because they don't like the game being easier. Developers are doing this as a job this may be bad of me to use to my advantage in an argument considering that I have liked majority of the updates to some extent and I enjoy game becoming easier and spend more time playing compared to before but it is the truth.

10 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I would argue the real reason is skill trees don't help players get better at the game in a meaningful way what is preventing them from getting better at least in my opinion is all the information that's currently hidden from player and the game not encouraging players to take risks as much.

Making the game easier won't help the players become better but make it more accessible to them and won't require as many hours to get decent at it.

10 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Most of that difficulty however did not coming from the game itself being dark souls level hard but from the game not properly teaching you how to survive which has always been defended as the experience if the goal was to make the game more accessible that needs to change rather than just throwing extremely powerful toys at people and hoping they'll bulldoze their way to the end game despite not learning how to handle it. Skill trees are fun I've said it myself plenty but if the goal of them is to help new players I don't think they're going about it in the right way.

I haven't played dark souls but I did play elden ring and while the game is more difficult with fights at the same time you can keep respawning and I don't have to invest a ton of time farming armor, weapons and healing, so it is much easier compared to DST to me because it encourages me to get better and not quit like most players do when they play DST and lose everything to deerclops first winter or gather a lot of resources for a hard boss fight and lose everything.

  

11 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

If new players need the skill trees then the wrong issue is being fixed the base game should be more approachable to new players not just a specific character.

What I want to mention is that I am not purely speaking about new players that have 10-20 hours in the game but someone with 100-200 hours is considered new in DST because they can't kill all bosses even get that good at the game compared to someone with 1000-2000 hours. Skill trees are still very helpful to "new" players that don't have so much time invested.

 

 

[Mysterious box]

20 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

As long as making the game easier brings more players compared to the ones that leave because they don't like the game being easier. Developers are doing this as a job this may be bad of me to use to my advantage in an argument considering that I have liked majority of the updates to some extent and I enjoy game becoming easier and spend more time playing compared to before but it is the truth.

Bringing in new players is a good thing but retaining them is the important part and simply making the game easier doesn't always lead to that end result and can be even worse if it doesn't retain players while bleeding older established players a balance is still needed.

22 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Making the game easier won't help the players become better but make it more accessible to them and won't require as many hours to get decent at it.

I disagree as the way they're making the game easier isn't in a way that makes it easier to grasp the fundamentals which is where a lot of newer players tend to get frustrated.

25 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I haven't played dark souls but I did play elden ring and while the game is more difficult with fights at the same time you can keep respawning and I don't have to invest a ton of time farming armor, weapons and healing, so it is much easier compared to DST to me because it encourages me to get better and not quit like most players do when they play DST and lose everything to deerclops first winter or gather a lot of resources for a hard boss fight and lose everything.

Dst gives you plenty of tools in order to prevent you from mass loss situations it just doesn't tell you they exist which kind of loops back around to the point I'm making skill trees make players more powerful but not more knowledgeable about what they can do and how to increase their odds of survival power is fun but power alone isn't going to make you better at the end of the day it's just fun.

38 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

What I want to mention is that I am not purely speaking about new players that have 10-20 hours in the game but someone with 100-200 hours is considered new in DST because they can't kill all bosses even get that good at the game compared to someone with 1000-2000 hours. Skill trees are still very helpful to "new" players that don't have so much time invested.

Here's the thing there are players with 1000+ hours who still fail be able to handle bosses or grasp mechanics this isn't exclusively a new player problem.

[Milordo]

12 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly I can picture in my head how post rift content could be worked into the early game for example acid rains could happen in summer and lunar hail could happen in winter but that would simply raise the barrier of entry to the game even higher for newer players so I understand why they're locking away newer major content until people are ready for it.

I guess..? Like I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just like with how these mechanics works right now, they can work 100% before rifts even for new players. Why? I'll pick acid rains. You have the new healing thingy with slurtle slime that protects you indefenitely from acid rains. It's 100% don't starve like. You found a new level, the game throws at you new difficulties and problems? Explore that same level and you'll find the solution inside it. It works better. For lunar hail honestly I would have put them on lunar island more than the surface because as you said, it's not fair for new players and it doesn't seems right for me a lunar thing there instead you know.....the level of the moon. Also I don't see the barrier of entry be raised too much if acid rains are in caves and lunar hail in moon island. The caves are in bad beta stage right? It's a win win for everybody. This is how I see it. 

[grm9]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

it is often the case that there is options in regards to difficulty so new players can easily get into it

we literally got the easy mode preset

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

That is very subjective, the things that you found fun may have been something I disliked like boss HP and repetitive mechanics so players use wanda/wolfgang or other characters and strategies to bypass them

making the fight x2 faster isn't bypassing the fight nor using strats for a boss that you're supposed to use strats for e.g. BQ, since the fun part about it's figuring out strats for it instead of fighting

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

The fight I least enjoy is misery toadstool because of said HP

ask them to decrease it instead of asking for boss reworks then

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

the difficulty lies in how prepared you are there is much less skill required compared to most bosses

you can still kill misery toad with a ham bat, normal axes and a torch, that just requires a lot of time

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

A lot of survival players are very against bosses being considered as difficult content because it is optional

what's this even supposed to mean? the sentence doesn't make sense, someone not liking something hard because it's optional? why?

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Survival content isn't optional to me or other players that enjoy other parts of the game, I can't turn rifts off If you activate them on the server I play, surface rifts are fine but I am still against cave rifts because it doesn't seem worth

i still don't see how's that related to what i said

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Another point that I'd like to make is that I can't choose not to play without wildfires or other mechanics that I don't find fun unless I host myself and basically change the default options that most players expect and that is what you can get when you start playing on most of the public or private servers that others host

i still don't see how's this related, i'm talking about bosses like dfly, BQ, toad, FW, old CK etc., they don't affect you in any way if you don't come close when someone's fighting or start the fight on your own

[abrocator]

17 hours ago, arubaro said:

I cant do a boss rush in the games i mentioned

That’s not relevant.

[arubaro]

59 minutes ago, abrocator said:

That’s not relevant.

It is. Clearly the intention behind stardew valley and animal crossing wasnt to make players do boss rush the same way the intention behind certain mechanics in dst's bosses is to prevent their cheese or cheap kills.

You can pretent to play animal crossing in dst but it wont be that game and you will need to diseable most mechanics to reach that level. The intention behind adding settings ofc is so players accommodate the game to their taste but at the same time klei wont release content expecting to be ignored and clearly they release content with certain costumers in mind because i dont see anybody playing football or shotters in dst neither i see klei wasting resources on promoting that

Klei can take different routes to attract certain kind of players if they notice that certain ways of playing attract and hook a good ammount of players but at the end the game is from a genre and wont attract enough people to make it change drastically to another genre as much as some people only enjoys certain aspects of the game. For that there are settings

Again, this is not a chill and casual farm simulator. Is a sandbox survival game so it will have feature from both genrer and should add content for these genrers since people who wants to play sanbox survival games will play this game, not fifa, not super mario, not animal crossing

Who ever wants a chill experience just turn off dangers and build. But wont make sense to only have few hours of survival content at the beguinning and the rest be the sims5 instead of a equilibrium between survival,  boss fights, exploration and building

[abrocator]

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

It is. Clearly the intention behind stardew valley and animal crossing wasnt to make players do boss rush the same way the intention behind certain mechanics in dst's bosses is to prevent their cheese or cheap kills.

You wrote

Quote

Well then talk for yourself and for the people you play with because i do megabase im really hungry for real survival content, not just easy to avoid weather effects or dumb destruction that doesnt affect the difficulty. And like me i know more megabasers that would love more survival content

How does it make sense to tell someone to “talk for yourself” and then assert that your particular “megabase” playstyle is legitimate?

Huh? Shouldn’t you both “talk for yourself” i.e. admit that there are multiple ways to play the game and that one way is not better for whatever reason (intended by design or something)?

Quote

You can pretent to play animal crossing in dst but it wont be that game and you will need to diseable most mechanics to reach that level. The intention behind adding settings ofc is so players accommodate the game to their taste but at the same time klei wont release content expecting to be ignored and clearly they release content with certain costumers in mind because i dont see anybody playing football or shotters in dst neither i see klei wasting resources on promoting that

If some “megabase” players play without worrying a lot about survival then that is already proof that one can play that way.

You already said that you are “hungry” for more survival elements that are not just “stupid weather effects” and “dumb destruction that doesn’t affect the difficulty”.

Well guess what? Going by your own argument, the survival in long term worlds in DST is precisely “stupid weather effects” and “dumb destruction”.

So if you berate others for thinking that this is “Stardew Valley”, how come you pine for DST to be something that it isn’t? Take your own advice: this isn’t a harsh survival game in long-term worlds so stop pretending that it is.

.

But that was according to your own advice. In reality the game is defined by how people play it. And neither of your two playstyles are more legitimate (“not Stardew Valley”) than the other.

[arubaro]

10 minutes ago, abrocator said:

You wrote

How does it make sense to tell someone to “talk for yourself” and then assert that your particular “megabase” playstyle is legitimate?

Huh? Shouldn’t you both “talk for yourself” i.e. admit that there are multiple ways to play the game and that one way is not better for whatever reason (intended by design or something)?

If some “megabase” players play without worrying a lot about survival then that is already proof that one can play that way.

You already said that you are “hungry” for more survival elements that are not just “stupid weather effects” and “dumb destruction that doesn’t affect the difficulty”.

Well guess what? Going by your own argument, the survival in long term worlds in DST is precisely “stupid weather effects” and “dumb destruction”.

So if you berate others for thinking that this is “Stardew Valley”, how come you pine for DST to be something that it isn’t? Take your own advice: this isn’t a harsh survival game in long-term worlds so stop pretending that it is.

.

But that was according to your own advice. In reality the game is defined by how people play it. And neither of your two playstyles are more legitimate (“not Stardew Valley”) than the other.

You are just saying the same thing i did but with other words. And ofc i applied the "talk for myself" when i directly put as an example people that enjoy other content from the game. I didn't generalized like the comment i answered

[grm9]

6 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The definition of decent player for DST to me is someone that can kill all bosses without cheesing but still using some crutches like weather pains for FW or pan flute for BQ

bosses aren't the only thing in the game though, you don't even need to interact with them

[Mike23Ua]

9 hours ago, abrocator said:

You wrote

How does it make sense to tell someone to “talk for yourself” and then assert that your particular “megabase” playstyle is legitimate?

Huh? Shouldn’t you both “talk for yourself” i.e. admit that there are multiple ways to play the game and that one way is not better for whatever reason (intended by design or something)?

If some “megabase” players play without worrying a lot about survival then that is already proof that one can play that way.

You already said that you are “hungry” for more survival elements that are not just “stupid weather effects” and “dumb destruction that doesn’t affect the difficulty”.

Well guess what? Going by your own argument, the survival in long term worlds in DST is precisely “stupid weather effects” and “dumb destruction”.

So if you berate others for thinking that this is “Stardew Valley”, how come you pine for DST to be something that it isn’t? Take your own advice: this isn’t a harsh survival game in long-term worlds so stop pretending that it is.

.

But that was according to your own advice. In reality the game is defined by how people play it. And neither of your two playstyles are more legitimate (“not Stardew Valley”) than the other.

This is Klei’s fault… or rather maybe I should say this communities fault actually, Klei is after all only releasing updates and making changes to those updates based on the feedback they get from the “Majority” of players.

And that right there is so wrong it should borderline be illegal.

Klei was at one time a game studio that went AGAINST the Norm, their games were in this Niche category that was only going to EVER appeal to a very small specific target audience.

And now that they have given the franchise a face lift in an attempt to appeal to more players, They’ve lost that original identity along the way.

Im of the mindset that DST needs both updates to the existing weather seasons (to make them harder and harsher and not easier and brain dead like they’ve been doing with lessening the effects of weather and adding a billion new ways to ignore its existence altogether..)

AND it needs MORE Seasons- Porting over the 4 seasons from Shipwrecked and 4 from Hamlet ALONE would take us from 4 Seasons up to 12.

Lastly, I’d reinstate that DST is NOT a peaceful basebuilding farming simulator by adding some actual survival mechanics that will ultimately effect you depending on if you engage with it or ignore it.

Something like bringing back disease that was deleted from the game cause players hated it… but changing it to be much much more unforgiving in that plants will become diseased, and then if a “mob” interacts with those plants (like a rabbit or a gobbler Turkey) that Mob will also become diseased, and then anything that mob comes in contact with (gobbler running between Berry bushes) will ALSO become Diseased.

And then EVENTUALLY the biome has corrupted, diseased trees and mobs in it and that changes the air to a toxic Poison.

I just added Hamlets poisonous biome and gave players a way to prevent it from spreading for as long as they can.

Yes I’m very much aware that this playstyle gives the middle finger to your already established mega-base, but I don’t PLAY a Survival game to build a Mega-Base, I play a survival game to have my odds of surviving challenged.. & Challenged often.

[Quadratordo]

58 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Something like bringing back disease that was deleted from the game cause players hated it… but changing it to be much much more unforgiving in that plants will become diseased, and then if a “mob” interacts with those plants (like a rabbit or a gobbler Turkey) that Mob will also become diseased, and then anything that mob comes in contact with (gobbler running between Berry bushes) will ALSO become Diseased.

I'd like to add that plants placed for aestethical value wouldn't even be affected by this, as the Embalming Spritz is a thing, so megabases wouldn't be any more affected than any old base plant setup would. Not that I weigh in either way as far as re-introducing Disease is concerned.

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, Quadratordo said:

I'd like to add that plants placed for aestethical value wouldn't even be affected by this, as the Embalming Spritz is a thing, so megabases wouldn't be any more affected than any old base plant setup would. Not that I weigh in either way as far as re-introducing Disease is concerned.

The embaling spritz is another one of those badly designed things that was added to the game specifically as a way of catering to “chill in my base” playstyles, It’s annoying and it’s boring.

For me as a massive enjoyer of RogueLites, it’s a insult and a direct slap to the face.

This only pushes two types of playstyles and there’s no middle ground in-between.

Theres the group of people who are so skilled at the game they can “win the game” by building all the structures and safety precautions to permanently remove most if not all threats from ever impacting their base (embalming spritz, DreadStone pillars etc)

And THEN there are the group of players who were struggling to stay alive as it was already, who won’t be able to obtain those things and will continue to be trolled by the game for not reaching that point.

Its like Antlion, if you go fight or appease her she stops her ground craters, if you however don’t KNOW that those craters are attached to fighting her, then the longer you ignore her the more sinkhole craters she can perform at a time. (From 2 up to 7)

But what your not looking at is the bigger picture.

IF this Spray prevents disease from effecting the plants and trees in your base, then you can never actually be “ran out of your base” by the area becoming inhabitable by contaminated trees, mobs and air pollution.

It puts you in the same situation that I desperately wish Klei would AVOID….

And that’s Add Problem- Give Permanent Solution to problem so I can ignore the Problem ever existed altogether.

My opinion on that is a simple- WTF…?

[Quadratordo]

16 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But what your not looking at is the bigger picture.

IF this Spray prevents disease from effecting the plants and trees in your base, then you can never actually be “ran out of your base” by the area becoming inhabitable by contaminated trees, mobs and air pollution.

You see, the Spritz flat-out puts affected plants out of the picture; they can't be harvested nor give resources, and can't be brought back from their prior state; it effectively turns interactive objects into purely decorative ones. Nothing wrong with this, as the caveau here is that they become decorations and nothing more; hence, a hypothetical Disease mechanic 2.0 should also ignore scared-stiff plants, as they would definitely not count either for or against such ''pollution''.

[Mike23Ua]

5 minutes ago, Quadratordo said:

You see, the Spritz flat-out puts affected plants out of the picture; they can't be harvested nor give resources, and can't be brought back from their prior state; it effectively turns interactive objects into purely decorative ones. Nothing wrong with this, as the caveau here is that they become decorations and nothing more; hence, a hypothetical Disease mechanic 2.0 should also ignore scared-stiff plants, as they would definitely not count either for or against such ''pollution''.

Yes, but even if those plants are now purely just decorations, the mobs and the weather in the area can not spread or be contaminated, which means… you now can do just like every other update and force the new content to spawn exactly where you want it to spawn.

(I’ve actually seen people throwing down signs to trick the game into registering the area as a “Base” so they can force Lunar Rifts to open in a specific area they want the rift to spawn in)

I shouldn’t have to explain how that goes against the very nature of “Uncompromising Survival Game.”

[Quadratordo]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yes, but even if those plants are now purely just decorations, the mobs and the weather in the area can not spread or be contaminated, which means… you now can do just like every other update and force the new content to spawn exactly where you want it to spawn.

I see what you mean. However, said scared-stiff plants could simply be not considered as a limiting factor as far as the contamination or weather are concerned... like having signs/structures not actually affect rift spawns, if you would. It'd be a fitting feature for the Spritz's design intention, in order to ensure you get no practical, permanent advantage by using it, other than simple aesthetics. Plus, assuming I'm picturing this mechanic like you are, preventing disease from spreading through a forest/farm would be most effectively done by removing tactical portions of it (or the entirety) anyway; it'd be silly to use a relatively expensive item like the Spritz to achieve the same goal but with the addition of no harvesting returns.

 

[abrocator]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is Klei’s fault… or rather maybe I should say this communities fault actually, Klei is after all only releasing updates and making changes to those updates based on the feedback they get from the “Majority” of players.

And that right there is so wrong it should borderline be illegal.

Klei was at one time a game studio that went AGAINST the Norm, their games were in this Niche category that was only going to EVER appeal to a very small specific target audience.

And now that they have given the franchise a face lift in an attempt to appeal to more players, They’ve lost that original identity along the way.

Im of the mindset that DST needs both updates to the existing weather seasons (to make them harder and harsher and not easier and brain dead like they’ve been doing with lessening the effects of weather and adding a billion new ways to ignore its existence altogether..)

AND it needs MORE Seasons- Porting over the 4 seasons from Shipwrecked and 4 from Hamlet ALONE would take us from 4 Seasons up to 12.

Lastly, I’d reinstate that DST is NOT a peaceful basebuilding farming simulator by adding some actual survival mechanics that will ultimately effect you depending on if you engage with it or ignore it.

Something like bringing back disease that was deleted from the game cause players hated it… but changing it to be much much more unforgiving in that plants will become diseased, and then if a “mob” interacts with those plants (like a rabbit or a gobbler Turkey) that Mob will also become diseased, and then anything that mob comes in contact with (gobbler running between Berry bushes) will ALSO become Diseased.

And then EVENTUALLY the biome has corrupted, diseased trees and mobs in it and that changes the air to a toxic Poison.

I just added Hamlets poisonous biome and gave players a way to prevent it from spreading for as long as they can.

Yes I’m very much aware that this playstyle gives the middle finger to your already established mega-base, but I don’t PLAY a Survival game to build a Mega-Base, I play a survival game to have my odds of surviving challenged.. & Challenged often.

You’ll notice that I am merely discussing how the really existing game is played by different people. While you are on your usual tangent about how the whole game should be redesigned and/or add in all the DS expansion code.

It’s so weird when people claim to take the higher ground by discussing some Platonic ideal of this survival game (so-called, or?) that has never existed. You see? This game, as it exists in the real world, is one where you can easily “megabase” (if you like) and mostly ignore the survival aspects. And that has always been the case. Lol. That was never not the case.

So on one hand some people complain about how DST is “supposed to be” (based on what, the proverbial box art?) this and that and then complain about how it has not been that for its whole existence. And it’s fine to e.g. complain that DST doesn’t have more hack and slash/action elements or whatever else you want. But the bizarre part is that they then harangue “megabasers” or whoever else that aren’t “survival” enough for going against the objective Spirit of DST...

What?

These things contradict each other.

1. DST was never hard enough as a survival game
2. But it should have been because <insert reasons>

What ghost in the game is (2) based on‽

Honestly this group of people are starting to look like, I don’t know, “literalists” (take all slogans and sentences literally) who are pointing towards 8–11 year old promotional material and saying “look, it says “survival”, how could you defile this game with your sandbox play?”

Even newbies can get bored after surviving a year because the Ruins (in vanilla DS) are optional and, you know, in DST with it’s metric ton of content and all that all of the challenging stuff are optional as well (and very obtuse if you don’t have a guiding hand or some wiki).

[Maxil20]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is Klei’s fault… or rather maybe I should say this communities fault actually, Klei is after all only releasing updates and making changes to those updates based on the feedback they get from the “Majority” of players.

And that right there is so wrong it should borderline be illegal.

How on earth is it “”illegal”” for Megabasers, the ones that play well into lategame, to talk about content that directly impacts the lategame??

The reason people were unhappy about content like the brightshades being the most invasive thing of all time is because people who play for the Epic and Hard challenge tm will play maybe 1-2 hours after they get all the content and then leave, which then proceeds to screw every single other player who plays well past that point.

It’s also not like megabasers hate challenge. I love fighting the new mutant bosses. I actively go out of my way every year to get armored bearger and deerclops just because I love their fights. Same with acid rain shaking up rain and being an interesting concept to work around. You can make challenges that are Different and Unique without completely destroying bases in the process.

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

The reason people were unhappy about content like the brightshades being the most invasive thing of all time is because people who play for the Epic and Hard challenge tm will play maybe 1-2 hours after they get all the content and then leave, which then proceeds to screw every single other player who plays well past that point.

I wish people would stop using this argument how many people do you guys really think just reaches the end game and just abandons the world immediately after to start fresh it feels like saying once you finish a mega base you delete your world that's just always been baffling logic to me.

[Maxil20]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

I wish people would stop using this argument how many people do you guys really think just reaches the end game and just abandons the world immediately after to start fresh it feels like saying once you finish a mega base you delete your world that's just always been baffling logic to me.

To me it seems like a lot of people do something like this, although this is coming from examples I’ve had with friends alongside other games (Notably Terrarria once the ML is Ded, interest kinda dries up shortly afterward)

I could have worded it better since I don’t think everyone would go, but I do feel there are a lot that don’t really play a world much once they do reach the endgame and don’t have anything left to conquer. They usually stop playing and play other games until another update drops. 

I still feel it’s important long term worlds are accounted for. There is a reason why Klei did a temp fix for boulders falling on bases until they added pillar options (and an especially expensive alternative with no upkeep) when people rapidly complained about the boulders being a concern to bases.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I still feel it’s important long term worlds are accounted for. There is a reason why Klei did a temp fix for boulders falling on bases until they added pillar options (and an especially expensive alternative with no upkeep) when people rapidly complained about the boulders being a concern to bases.

I mean that wasn't just a megabase consideration having no safe zones in the caves caused multiple issues which is why everyone was on board for it in the first place even I pitched the same idea around that time. You'll even notice if you look back to early lunar rift basically no one was split on the idea that lunar rifts could destroy your base by opening on top of it with no counter play went over very poorly with next to no way of defending it. That being said I'll say what I always say protecting your base is part of survival and it's meaningless if the game completely removes the option to and just about anyone should agree on that front at least.

7 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

To me it seems like a lot of people do something like this, although this is coming from examples I’ve had with friends alongside other games (Notably Terrarria once the ML is Ded, interest kinda dries up shortly afterward)

I could have worded it better since I don’t think everyone would go, but I do feel there are a lot that don’t really play a world much once they do reach the endgame and don’t have anything left to conquer. They usually stop playing and play other games until another update drops. 

Those fall under the category of rushers and speed runners which is different from someone who is looking for a enhanced survival experience. Not everyone who is interested in new end game challenges is looking for dst to become some boss rush sim. It just comes from assumptions really there are many of people who just aren't interested in making sprawling multi biome bases but that doesn't automatically mean they're just murder happy boss slayers. You got people who prefer to farm, people who would prefer more content related to survival, people who prefer to fish even some who just prefer the post rift gameplay loop so watering it down to just megabasers and rushers just feels silly.

[Maxil20]

19 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Those fall under the category of rushers and speed runners which is different from someone who is looking for a enhanced survival experience. Not everyone who is interested in new end game challenges is looking for dst to become some boss rush sim. It just comes from assumptions really there are many of people who just aren't interested in making sprawling multi biome bases but that doesn't automatically mean they're just murder happy boss slayers. You got people who prefer to farm, people who would prefer more content related to survival, people who prefer to fish even some who just prefer the post rift gameplay loop so watering it down to just megabasers and rushers just feels silly.

These are completely fair points. I do think I am admittedly biased as I have seen a lot of people rush content and I myself have pretty much been on the base camp since SW became a thing, but there are valid alternatives and I apologize if I downplayed them.

I do feel there us a solid middle ground between megabasers/ones that enjoy the game for farming/survival. Its why I myself like changes to the world like acid rain/hail which do try to change things up a bit (hail hopefully more so soon). These shake up the gameplay in a way I like (changing up survival in ways that don’t involve base destruction) and would personally like to see explored more. Heck, I would be down if the umbralla wasn’t the ultimate counter to acid rain infusions like it currently is. I like how unique they can be and its a shame it instantly goes away when you pop an umbralla up, and I would love if it persisted under the umbralla dome.

 

[Mike23Ua]

45 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean that wasn't just a megabase consideration having no safe zones in the caves caused multiple issues which is why everyone was on board for it in the first place even I pitched the same idea around that time. You'll even notice if you look back to early lunar rift basically no one was split on the idea that lunar rifts could destroy your base by opening on top of it with no counter play went over very poorly with next to no way of defending it. That being said I'll say what I always say protecting your base is part of survival and it's meaningless if the game completely removes the option to and just about anyone should agree on that front at least.

Those fall under the category of rushers and speed runners which is different from someone who is looking for an enhanced survival experience. Not everyone who is interested in new end game challenges is looking for dst to become some boss rush sim. It just comes from assumptions really there are many of people who just aren't interested in making sprawling multi biome bases but that doesn't automatically mean they're just murder happy boss slayers. You got people who prefer to farm, people who would prefer more content related to survival, people who prefer to fish even some who just prefer the post rift gameplay loop so watering it down to just megabasers and rushers just feels silly.

Ahh but… Can we even call the content Klei has been putting out for DST lately as being “End Game”?

Look I’m no game designer but to me it makes no Gosh Darn Sense why they’d take all the freaking time that they have to update characters with Reworks and Re-Reworks, and Now Skill Tree Reworks if they plan for this to be the “End Game.”

Its illogical, it’s stupid.. it’s baffling and uncanny.

Thats like playing a shooter where for 98% of the game you run around with hand to hand Melee and then only for the last 2% of the game do you get to use a gun.

Look bottom line is that if Willow and Winona can have lunar or shadow aligned Bernie and Catapults on DAY ONE as soon as they spawn out of the florid portal, then maybe Klei needs to rethink how late into the game the content that’s actually designed to interact with that is introduced to the player?

Otherwise: See above 2% Shooter game reference.