[Game Update] - 618572

[Mike23Ua]

50 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

The nerf was silently introduced in order to restrict the leech to only mobs that dropped souls. It was definitely an intended change, and has now been reverted in response to player feedback.

Indeed, which makes me actually worried and uncertain of Klei’s future, yes they’re a small indie company, but they’re an indie company with 15+ years of experience beneath their belts.

The fact that they’ll make a change, and then cave to peer pressure to quickly reverse said change they felt they needed to make, gives me the impression that they’re releasing updates one update at a time.. and that there isn’t actually a broader scoop or a “plan” rather or consistency of the updates tying neatly together.

It all feels like something that being thought up on the whim (The change) and then after negative fan feedback from it, reversed on that same notion. (The Re-addition the original thing they attempted to change)

But I for one would actually love for Klei devs to get the ball rolling, and actually “Stick to their guns” when they make a gameplay change that they KNOW very well is going to shake up or completely break the Meta way of playing the game.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all at this point if they don’t reverse the changes to Winona’s catapults so Non-Winona’s don’t have to manually arm them one at a time again.

And that honestly scares me to the point of not knowing if I even want to stick around and see how the franchise turns out if it is indeed being put together update by update and then modified based on player response to it..

It’s no secret that I’ve been considering leaving these forums for quite some time now, I’ve said everything I could’ve possibly wanted to say.. (& probably more than enough) I’ve expressed the kinds of DLCs or directions I’d like to see Klei dive into the deep end with, I’ve just about exhausted every creative idea I’ve had to suggest that I felt could really make dst a “Flexible” game- Meaning it’s as easy or as hard as all the toggle settings you apply to make it that way.. Shared my ideas on how to satisfy both casual sandbox gamers, and players who crave a less predictable gameplay loop.

But I’m honestly just about ready to throw in the towel on this one. I’ve never seen any game company outside of Klei create their games and give their community the impression that they’re doing so one update at a time..

And maybe that’s NOT how they’re doing things (honestly I’d love some clarity or reassurance here..) but the way they’ll change something in one update and reverse that change in a hotfix shortly afterwards if the change was poorly received really has me Questioning it.

Edited July 4, 2024 by Mike23Ua

[Uedo]

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Indeed, which makes me actually worried and uncertain of Klei’s future, yes they’re a small indie company, but they’re an indie company with 15+ years of experience beneath their belts.

The fact that they’ll make a change, and then cave to peer pressure to quickly reverse said change they felt they needed to make, gives me the impression that they’re releasing updates one update at a time.. and that there isn’t actually a broader scoop or a “plan” rather or consistency of the updates tying neatly together.

It all feels like something that being thought up on the whim (The change) and then after negative fan feedback from it, reversed on that same notion. (The Re-addition the original thing they attempted to change)

But I for one would actually love for Klei devs to get the ball rolling, and actually “Stick to their guns” when they make a gameplay change that they KNOW very well is going to shake up or completely break the Meta way of playing the game.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all at this point if they don’t reverse the changes to Winona’s catapults so Non-Winona’s don’t have to manually arm them one at a time again.

And that honestly scares me to the point of not knowing if I even want to stick around and see how the franchise turns out if it is indeed being put together update by update and then modified based on player response to it..

It’s no secret that I’ve been considering leaving these forums for quite some time now, I’ve said everything I could’ve possibly wanted to say.. (& probably more than enough) I’ve expressed the kinds of DLCs or directions I’d like to see Klei dive into the deep end with, I’ve just about exhausted every creative idea I’ve had to suggest that I felt could really make dst a “Flexible” game- Meaning it’s as easy or as hard as all the toggle settings you apply to make it that way.. Shared my ideas on how to satisfy both casual sandbox gamers, and players who crave a less predictable gameplay loop.

But I’m honestly just about ready to throw in the towel on this one. I’ve never seen any game company outside of Klei create their games and give their community the impression that they’re doing so one update at a time..

And maybe that’s NOT how they’re doing things (honestly I’d love some clarity or reassurance here..) but the way they’ll change something in one update and reverse that change in a hotfix shortly afterwards if the change was poorly received really has me Questioning it.

It's almost like they want players to play the game and stick around, huh?

And also: So they can't listen to the majority of players, but they must listen to one guy on the forums or he'll leave? Be real Mike, come on. Free labour is not always skilled labour, people aren't obligated to meeting your demands dude. I really mean that with respect, that's not cool though :/

Edited July 4, 2024 by Uedo

[Cyrefy]

17 hours ago, V2C said:

Lowered waterproofness and removed insulation from Portasol.

Why?

This umbrella is unusable like an umbrella.

You should remove 100% waterproofness, instead, and make sure it doesn't consume durability when keeping it equipped, so that it is an item aimed at aesthetics (or only for teleport), just as you want.

Or even better, remove this umbrella excuse and let us teleport with the controller.

this "umbrella" not working as an "umbrella" makes the same logical sense as Bat Bat not healing with shadows and mechanical enemies. And yet he is healing again...

So I ask again just out of curiosity. Why?

[JesseB_Klei]

USEast servers have been updated.

[Mysterious box]

27 minutes ago, Uedo said:

It's almost like they want players to play the game and stick around, huh?

And also: So they can't listen to the majority of players, but they must listen to one guy on the forums or he'll leave? Be real Mike, come on. Free labour is not always skilled labour, people aren't obligated to meeting your demands dude. I really mean that with respect, that's not cool though :/

Here's the thing plenty of things these days end up in a worse situation due to indie devs caving to their more vocal fans rather than sticking to how they envisioned things sure appease your customer but they also have to put their foots down if they want things to work a certain way regardless of what the vocal crowd wants and that includes everyone here.

I'm not saying this change was that big of a deal but I'd hope we're not going to bully the devs into changing things how we want them as has happened in the past.

[Uedo]

21 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Here's the thing plenty of things these days end up in a worse situation due to indie devs caving to their more vocal fans rather than sticking to how they envisioned things sure appease your customer but they also have to put their foots down if they want things to work a certain way regardless of what the vocal crowd wants and that includes everyone here.

I'm not saying this change was that big of a deal but I'd hope we're not going to bully the devs into changing things how we want them as has happened in the past.

I completely get what you're saying, but I wasn't being absolutist in either direction. I, do, absolutely agree with you, but I didn't state or imply that Klei have to kowtow to any crowd. I was trying to point out that the post, and quite few posts historically from this individual, is suggesting that their ideas take precedent over the dev team's decisions. 

I do get it, your overall point. But i'm kinda arguing that point too, however my view is that if they dev team do choose to listen to suggestions and feedback in specific or broad terms, they're absolutely entitled to do as they please, if they want to listen - it's up to them. I don't agree with the merm tool change, but if they don't listen, i'm not going to feel like some type of scorned critic, it's not up to me and i'm pretty sure i'll get over it. I think that's the sentiment i'm trying to say, I just think the post in question speaks to the fact that some people would be fine with these types of hotfixes and changes if it were their suggestions. 

It's arguing from a place of entitlement imo. Which is fine, but considering Mike seems to genuinely like the game and I believe they really truly offer lovely suggestions that they feel will help, that IS awesome and sweet, but like, come on. It wasn't a fair take in the slightest and quite mean spirited.

 

[JazzyGames]

I don’t think that this change is a great example of devs getting bullied into obedience by the community. They made a change, some players expressed dislike for that change, they discussed it internally and then decided to change it back. Didn’t seem like an unhealthy exchange of ideas to me, at least not compared to other more contentious changes. I appreciate how Klei actively solicits feedback and seriously considers the player experience, and when they decide that a change is important to their vision I like to believe that the majority of the community respects that.

Edited July 4, 2024 by JazzyGames

[Cruvimaster]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The fact that they’ll make a change, and then cave to peer pressure to quickly reverse said change they felt they needed to make, gives me the impression that they’re releasing updates one update at a time.. and that there isn’t actually a broader scoop or a “plan” rather or consistency of the updates tying neatly together.

The forum is a direct channel with developers. And they are always following. Proof of this is JoeW's constant interventions when chaos begins with any controversial post.

And they demonstrate that they are willing to listen to members' opinions and back down on something they feel wasn't good. Other companies would not be so malleable.

About the bat bat, all they had to do was keep quiet for a week and all the topics would have died and no one would complain anymore.

When a weapon is bad or little used, what we usually see is it receiving an improvement to encourage its use. This is what happens in Call Of Duty.

But exactly the opposite was happening in the case of bat bat. A relatively expensive weapon that almost no one uses and has received a nerf.

It didn't make sense and the developers looked at it and revised it.

It's not giving in to pressure, but accepting reasonable arguments.

[Mike23Ua]

7 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

The forum is a direct channel with developers. And they are always following. Proof of this is JoeW's constant interventions when chaos begins with any controversial post.

And they demonstrate that they are willing to listen to members' opinions and back down on something they feel wasn't good. Other companies would not be so malleable.

About the bat bat, all they had to do was keep quiet for a week and all the topics would have died and no one would complain anymore.

When a weapon is bad or little used, what we usually see is it receiving an improvement to encourage its use. This is what happens in Call Of Duty.

But exactly the opposite was happening in the case of bat bat. A relatively expensive weapon that almost no one uses and has received a nerf.

It didn't make sense and the developers looked at it and revised it.

It's not giving in to pressure, but accepting reasonable arguments.

That would be fine, if it was even the point I’m trying to get across, this isn’t the first time Klei took a direction, forums outcried and they reversed course.

Lunar Horror mobs were discontinued for a while after players expressed discomfort with them forcing Klei to completely backdown on a direction they were attempting to take the game within.

Megabasers cried when end game content Lunar Rifts invaded their bases forcing the devs to yet again reverse course and intentionally code these things to politely avoid your base despite being called “End-Game” Content.

It’s like I’m on board a cruise ship and we’re all just actively trying to avoid Icebergs.

I’m actually surprised (so far) that lureplant & spider den trampling stayed un-reversed, and Winona’s catapults now require the player to toggle them all on manually.

and maybe I’m still a little salty from the complete and total removal of disease as a gameplay mechanic.. or the way things now “wilt” instead of being able to fully perish in flames.

Maybe I want to play something labeled as “Survival” to see how long I can actually survive??

Pretty sure the entire reason “Endless” was added to the game at all was so that things that did not regrow on Survival WOULD regrow exclusively on this mode.

And forgive me if I’m being rude or if my posts sound ignorant or unreasonable.. but at this point I’ve just lost a ton of hope & faith I once had within Klei.

[HowlVoid]

20 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

community backlash

Community feedback*

"All my criticism is feedback, everything I don't agree with is backlash"

This mentality has to go

19 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

To be fair they could have just buffed/reworked the item as I think the reason it was changed in the first place was for lore consistency.

No.

It's exactly why the change was reversed, because there were good enough reasons for what it was used for before.

I buff wouldn't have mattered. It's in ruins item pool, it should work on the ruin mobs.

Lore can be anything they want it to be. If it's using souls/magic/energy it doesn't really matter.

Edited July 4, 2024 by HowlVoid

[Creatorofswamps]

4 hours ago, OrangeNibble said:

I really liked being able to use the merm tools

I agree with you, I can say that I have already got used to taking it with me as a pointer for clearing an ordinary, stone forest. It's very strange to feel that now I can't take the merms tool in my hands while playing for wurt

[Copyafriend]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Indeed, which makes me actually worried and uncertain of Klei’s future, yes they’re a small indie company, but they’re an indie company with 15+ years of experience beneath their belts.

mike please, you doompost too much, it will be okay, even if klei sometimes reverts publically disliked changes, they keep ones THEY think are important.

4 hours ago, JazzyGames said:

The nerf was silently introduced in order to restrict the leech to only mobs that dropped souls. It was definitely an intended change, and has now been reverted in response to player feedback.

yeah i noticed, i was more pointing out that Mike23Ua's concerns were unfounded because of the nature of how something like the batbat checking for whether it can steal health would work. 

[Mysterious box]

48 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Community feedback*

"All my criticism is feedback, everything I don't agree with is backlash"

This mentality has to go

Nice strawman.

 

48 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

No.

It's exactly why the change was reversed, because there were good enough reasons for what it was used for before.

Main reason I saw going around being it's a niche item that noone uses so they shouldn't take away it's one use and that it would be a  nerf to Wormwood.

48 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

buff wouldn't have mattered. It's in ruins item pool, it should work on the ruin mobs.

So your saying a niche item wouldn't become more used if it were revised to be easier or better to use?

48 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Lore can be anything they want it to be. If it's using souls/magic/energy it doesn't really matter.

Except when it detracts from how people want to play the game?

Either way like I said I'm not torn up over the batbat thing nor am I saying people went as hard on the devs as they did with Wormwood's skill tree all I'm saying is we should be aware of it. We all get alittle carried away sometimes when a change messes with our ideal playstyle.

Spoiler

The Wormwood part was mostly a joke

 

Edited July 4, 2024 by Mysterious box

[HowlVoid]

20 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Nice strawman.

It's not a strawman, that's what it sounded like. If that's not what you meant then I do apologize.

20 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Main reason I saw going around being it's a niche item that noone uses so they shouldn't take away it's one use and that it would be a  nerf to Wormwood.

And that seemed to be a good enough reason. As it stands it is a niche item so nerfing some of it's niche wouldn't be good.

20 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So your saying a niche item wouldn't become more used if it were revised to be easier or better to use?

I'm saying a niche item wouldn't becomes more useful to it's niche if said niche is removed. Revising it to work in other ways, well, it means it would work in other ways lol

It's really that niche that some of us wanted to preserve.

20 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Except when it detracts from how people want to play the game?

Lore distracts how people play the game? What's more... When magic needs logic?

Uh... I'm sure people will play the game just fine. Since anyone not in the forum (80% of people who play the game) didn't read the comment in a forum buried by dozens of threads about "consistency". I'm sure even some forumers didn't read it, I didn't.

20 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Either way like I said I'm not torn up over the batbat thing nor am I saying people went as hard on the devs as they did with Wormwood's skill tree all I'm saying is we should be aware of it. We all get alittle carried away sometimes when a change messes with our ideal playstyle.

  Reveal hidden contents

The Wormwood part was mostly a joke

 

Well I can at least agree that people shouldn't get carried away with feedback. 

[mykenception]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

And forgive me if I’m being rude or if my posts sound ignorant or unreasonable.. but at this point I’ve just lost a ton of hope & faith I once had within Klei.

you say this on ever doompost you make especially when you want klei to abandon DST

[Swiyss]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Lunar Horror mobs were discontinued for a while after players expressed discomfort with them forcing Klei to completely backdown on a direction they were attempting to take the game within.

Megabasers cried when end game content Lunar Rifts invaded their bases forcing the devs to yet again reverse course and intentionally code these things to politely avoid your base despite being called “End-Game” Content.

Yep, 2 examples where I was agreeing with the development. Sad. I really unironically wished end-game content was more devastating and catastrophic.

Kinda tragic too.