The misunderstanding of Woodie's "Lack of a downside"

[Gashzer]

11 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Atleast make affinity and planar perks not avaraible since day 1

Nah because you still need to kill af and cc once to unlock. 

A new player isnt going to have access to affinities for a long time. Console players of the game cant cheat these affinities either.

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

standing still for an hour

Again u can still walk around. Its not like it freezes you in place. Moose charge is fast and goose can move really fast and even beaver has 10% speed.

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

only daywalker and FW

Or anytime you are insane and want to use idols. Which can be common in ruins or if you dont care lookin after ur sanity.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Again u can still walk around. Its not like it freezes you in place. Moose charge is fast and goose can move really fast and even beaver has 10% speed

slower

7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Or anytime you are insane and want to use idols. Which can be common in ruins or if you dont care lookin after ur sanity

you'll need to deal with that after transformation'll end anyway so you'd just end up not needing to kill a few nightmares per every time you transform into something that isn't goose until you get shanter or CC crown

[Gotheran]

It's hard to speak to Woodie since I've never treated him seriously to begin with, but I think his only real downside of changing during full moons just doesn't mean much until you try to push for the endgame where it becomes a constant nuisance.

In solo he had to meter his wood chopping to avoid changing in addition to full moons, which is where I lose my ability to treat Woodie seriously since its just far more amusing to me to just go beaver and stay beaver almost forever by just destroying a whole forest. But DST can just craft an on demand transform button and those forms are limited and then leave Woodie vulnerable when changing back.

I see DST Woodie as just proof skill trees are nonsensical and poorly laid out, since there's nothing that feels connected about just deleting his full moon weakness or removing the starving penalty when turning back. Maybe Woodie has to earn it by beating the CC but that's the biggest issue is the only perks that feel earned require fighting the most time consuming bosses to setup and frankly the game does nothing to incentivize players pushing their game that far, ESPECIALLY for Woodie who has to suffer till CC is defeated.

DST is riddled with performance problems, bugs, and old less than interesting items and mechanics or systems that actively encourage the player to ignore them but skill trees are the main focus of dev time right now?

[Gashzer]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

slower

And? You are creating an issue out of minor inconvenience at worst.

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

You'll need to deal with that after transformation'll end anyway so you'd just end up not needing to kill a few nightmares per every time you transform into something that isn't goose until you get shanter or CC crown

If you are using transformations often (which as a woodie player you should be!) then even shanter and CC crown wont be enough to keep ur sanity high forever. And being able to ignore shadows during transformations is great.

Sounds like you play woodie like a wilson instead of using idols often. Lack of character understanding is your problem.

Woodie is a character that shouldnt waste time taming a beefalo as goose moves just as fast as regular beef without the entire taming process.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

And? You are creating an issue out of minor inconvenience at worst

it wastes time so it's bad, you might also want to do something that isn't walking

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Sounds like you play woodie like a wilson instead of using idols often

no, i simply haven't played as him in a while

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Woodie is a character that shouldnt waste time taming a beefalo as goose moves just as fast as regular beef without the entire taming process

but doesn't work if you swap, requires constantly getting seeds and monster meat, isn't as convenient to use for short distances, can't go through wormholes etc.

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

If you are using transformations often (which as a woodie player you should be!) then even shanter and CC crown wont be enough to keep ur sanity high forever. And being able to ignore shadows during transformations is great

you could just kill a few nightmares if you're moose, definitely not worth wasting 1/8 of your time

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you could just kill a few nightmares if you're moose, definitely not worth wasting 1/8 of your time

But you are not going to have moon storms going 24/7 or lunar grimore so unless you are doing these niche things then you are wasting one skill point for one full moon every hour.

[grm9]

5 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

But you are not going to have moon storms going 24/7 or lunar grimore

you could

[Gashzer]

Just now, grm9 said:

you could

I could also fly if i had wings.

Another debate you have lost to me grm9 

[grm9]

10 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Another debate you have lost to me

it's pretty obvious that you're trolling at this point but i'm genuinely curious if you've never seen an endless server with moonstorms permanently enabled

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

woodie's shadow affinity's only useful for werepig and FW so it'll be almost pointless if you'll only get it after killing FW

I disagree personally I feel like if you use the curse masteries the lunar affinity becomes mostly pointless since it already solves most of the issue that comes with full moon transformations it feels like the only reason to use the lunar affinity is if you don't go for the curse mastery which surprisingly enough some people actually don't.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

I disagree personally I feel like if you use the curse masteries the lunar affinity becomes mostly pointless since it already solves most of the issue that comes with full moon transformations it feels like the only reason to use the lunar affinity is if you don't go for the curse mastery which surprisingly enough some people actually don't

standing still for a minute every day still sucks

[Mysterious box]

Just now, grm9 said:

standing still for a minute every day still sucks

Then don't stand still?

What are you doing that requires your human state during every full moon?

[grm9]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Then don't stand still?

What are you doing that requires your human state during every full moon?

already answered this through other messages, you still walk more slowly in comparison to not being transformed if you aren't goose, beaver's worse in comparison to bearger and reanimated skeleton, moose can't stun mutated bearger and deerclops iirc, you can't interact with inventory and containers etc.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, grm9 said:

already answered this through other messages, you still walk more slowly in comparison to not being transformed if you aren't goose, beaver's worse in comparison to bearger and reanimated skeleton, moose can't stun mutated bearger and deerclops iirc, can't interact with inventory and containers etc.

Moose walks at player speed if you've got his upgrade and beaver walks faster than a player these are of course assuming your not using speed boosting gear on your character.

Also while moose can't stun them he's still pretty good for fighting them.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Moose walks at player speed if you've got his upgrade and beaver walks faster than a player these are of course assuming your not using speed boosting gear on your character

you'll probably have a speedboost or a beefalo by the time you get moonstorms

[Mysterious box]

I don't disagree but is moving at base player speed that frustrating?

[arubaro]

21 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't disagree but is moving at base player speed that frustrating?

Not even that, the only form that dont have speed boost is moose but you can spam right click

[paodocevoante1]

5 hours ago, mkemal23 said:

This isn't just a Woodie issue, every character is basically Wilson+ right now.

Only reason Woodie is talked much is because similar to Winona, he's literally Wilson+ like, he even has the beard perk.

And you know what? As a Wilson main, I have zero issue with all of this. In the end if klei thinks this is the best for the game I'm fine with it.

What bothers me is how biased everyone against, the only character thats getting negatively effected by all of this.(Wilson)

You can see this bias if you look at klei streams or forums. When it comes to every single character except Wilson, the "new" dst balancing apply. Downsides gets ignored, Half of the characters turn into Wilson+ and the other half is so powerfull that you straight up ignore their meanigless downsides.

However, for some reason, Wilson is still kept locked behind the "old" dst balancing. And Considering how they could have just locked his rework behind Affinity/time gate, I don't know what was klei thinking by doing the Wilson's skill tree. (They also mentioned how it was to fight powercreep but I genuenly don't know how Wilson's Badly designed skilltree would help with that?)

To sum up, Klei no longer wants characters to stuck in old dst. And it doesn't really matter if you agree or disagree, they can't turn back right now.

Only think they have to do to end this Character balancing dissucssions is giving Wilson and Wes proper gameplay mechanics to both of them so they could catch up to modern Dst gameplay. 

 has weak beard perk = Wilson woooow

[Mike23Ua]

9 hours ago, chirsg said:

Wigfrid can't eat vegetables. 

Bruh… this used to mean something, until Klei added an actual explorable ocean into DST, and now even if your in a biome with no meat, a deep sea fishing Rod later you can pull something out the nearby water. It made the “challenge” of ponds freezing over in winter blocking off fish and frog legs pretty pointless.

But that’s the price you pay, for an explorable ocean.

That said, Her no veggies downside doesn’t really mean much when she literally regains health and now also repairs armor from just punching things.

Wurt who is the opposite from her, and only eats veggies but no meats can’t punch something and regain health & armor while doing it.

[Well-met]

...everyone is wilson+

it's not an issue it's a trademark.

[Bumber64]

11 hours ago, chirsg said:

The vocal concerns are that when he is lunar aligned, he is basically Wilson+

Ah, but you forget that you're giving up Torch Tree to play as him!

[Ridley]

31 minutes ago, Well-met said:

...everyone is wilson+

it's not an issue it's a trademark.

It is funny to me because I blame Wilson himself for this. He keeps finding ways to share his powers/inventions with everyone like he is purposefully teaching this stuff for the group's benefit. No one knows how to make a meat effigy in anyway other than how Wilson invented it. I think Wilson got his skill tree first not because the developers prioritized bringing him up to par with the other characters, but because Wilson is always on the frontier of discovery.

[Spirit Glow]

Quote

Ah, but you forget that you're giving up Torch Tree to play as him!

Finally someone gets it! XD

[abrocator]

Some characters have downsides. But it’s impossible to discuss them when people can rush raid bosses. How is “vegetarian only diet” supposed to be a downside to them?

• Vegetarian: just rush moonie island
• Meat only (with *): lol
• Low HP: why are you getting hit enough for it to matter?
• Extra sanity drain from dusk (Wolfgang): more nightmare fuel for me
• Lower base damage: rush beefalo

[W0l0l0]

8 hours ago, arubaro said:

So the game reached a spot were "not having access to an op perk is a downside" :/

Thats the last 6 or so years summed up.

And Klei won't go backwards (AKA mass nerfing), so the only way is forward, and onto weird bandaid stuff like Planar.