The truth about "swap characters"

[Cyrefy]

3 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I still think he should blow up boats with fissures just to make players move around a little more.

I literally thought the same thing.

[dst_lover]

old bosses are good why all that hate on them most of them are exciting and a lot of fun to beat like bee queen and dragonfly , and the fuelweaver and the  celestial champion and antlion  and  klaus and ancient guardian

[Cyrefy]

 

5 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

celestial champion

This boss is not old.

5 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

ancient guardian

After the rework it looked great.

 

 

6 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

why all that hate on them most of them

---->

21 minutes ago, Cyrefy said:

you end up moving around a lot more, which makes combat much more fun

 

The dragonfly, for example, has 1 attack.

[dst_lover]

5 minutes ago, Cyrefy said:

 

This boss is not old.

After the rework it looked great.

 

 

---->

 

The dragonfly, for example, has 1 attack.

dragonfly has two attacks and summon move and why the ancient guardian looked great but antlion and bee queen and klaus and fuelweaver  are not ? 

[chaosmonkey]

1 minute ago, dst_lover said:

dragonfly has two attacks and summon move and why the ancient guardian looked great but antlion and bee queen and klaus and fuelweaver  are not ? 

Ancient Guardian is great now after the rework. Before the rework it was just a Rook with 10,000 HP.

I'd argue that Dragon Fly is not in a great place since basically everyone uses walls to deal with the Lavae.

I like the other bosses you listed but YMMV.

[dst_lover]

7 minutes ago, chaosmonkey said:

 

I'd argue that Dragon Fly is not in a great place since basically everyone uses walls to deal with the Lavae.

I like the other bosses you listed but YMMV.

dragon fly is a fun boss with or without walls most of the players uses walls to make the fight easy on them and that is ok ,  then most of the old boss are good 

[Frosty_Mentos]

7 hours ago, dst_lover said:

old bosses are good why all that hate on them most of them are exciting and a lot of fun to beat like bee queen and dragonfly , and the fuelweaver and the  celestial champion and antlion  and  klaus and ancient guardian

Fuelweaver is a good boss imo, there's a lot more puzzle going on with how many powers that bosses has for little HP he has. Anything past Antlion and Fuelweaver are all modern and best bosses imo, from most simple to most complex and fair fights. Everything that is older being bee queen and toad are least favorite bosses to fight from reception I've learned from people. I don't like those couple of bosses specifically for that they don't offer as much excitement to beat besides boring high hps to cut down.

Good reasons people used to use bunny men or damage characters to cut down on their hps faster cause they provide little 'epic battle moments' and more 'end this quick I hate it here'

[00petar00]

I couldn't care less about catapults being exclusive If there was a non-exclusive structure like it but I have to care and it purely makes the game worse for players that build a lot of catapults and swap.

I don't like having so many unique and interesting abilities/structures/items locked behind characters that I will almost never play, to me character skill trees and refreshes bring nothing besides when it happens to characters I play.

To solve this non-issue of people getting mad about Winona being a swap character which I don't really think is even valid logical point when it is your choice on how you play the game and it isn't competitive but why not make all characters as much of a "swap character" as possible so that we have more to look forward to when characters are the main focus of an update?

[Mike23Ua]

34 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I couldn't care less about catapults being exclusive If there was a non-exclusive structure like it but I have to care and it purely makes the game worse for players that build a lot of catapults and swap.

I don't like having so many unique and interesting abilities/structures/items locked behind characters that I will almost never play, to me character skill trees and refreshes bring nothing besides when it happens to characters I play.

To solve this non-issue of people getting mad about Winona being a swap character which I don't really think is even valid logical point when it is your choice on how you play the game and it isn't competitive but why not make all characters as much of a "swap character" as possible so that we have more to look forward to when characters are the main focus of an update?

Probably because if I was able to play as Walter while reading the Codex Umbra for Shadow Prisons & also Wickerbottoms Tentacles book while safely shooting bosses with my slingshot that I literally just stripped away the entire point of choosing to play as Walter???

How is this so hard for people to understand lol, If you have a Wickerbottom, A Maxwell or even just A Maxwell who has Wickers Books and a Walter you get the above combo, but you actually need 2-3 other players to achieve that….

it would be highly busted if Walter could achieve it all on his lonesome.

At that point, why not just start everyone out as Wilson…. And along the way unlock every single ability of every other character?

[dst_lover]

5 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Fuelweaver is a good boss imo, there's a lot more puzzle going on with how many powers that bosses has for little HP he has. Anything past Antlion and Fuelweaver are all modern and best bosses imo, from most simple to most complex and fair fights. Everything that is older being bee queen and toad are least favorite bosses to fight from reception I've learned from people. I don't like those couple of bosses specifically for that they don't offer as much excitement to beat besides boring high hps to cut down.

Good reasons people used to use bunny men or damage characters to cut down on their hps faster cause they provide little 'epic battle moments' and more 'end this quick I hate it here'

fuelweaver is not just a good boss he is one of the best bosses to me and I don't get why all the hate on him and bee queen they are all good bosses and why is klaus not an old boss he introduced in A New Reign ??? if klaus is modern then why bee queen is an old boss ? like you are taking what ever boss you like and say he is a modern boss bro , the only old boss that i don't like is toad , and modern bosses have crab king and the new carb king  and malbatross 

[Frosty_Mentos]

53 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

snip

There's very few raid bosses that are old and are basically the lame ones as many would call. I'm recalling from my many years of experience of how people feel about toad and bee queen.

I dunno what's the stigma over Fuelweaver being "bad" despite the spamminess of his nature, it's like people forget that the game is about finding the tools and ways to do things faster and in more creatives ways instead of bashing out with weapon and kite. Those people I call are Neanderthals, because it's bashing a rock with a rock till bug dies instead of using everything game gives.

Bee queen is weird and awkward and she's becoming weaker now with the new skill trees presented. She's supposed to be a lot more menacing for a "raid boss" that gives most best survival items in the game now either she's clubbed down or flamed, or catapulted while she has no means to fight back. I killed bee queen with 8 catapults just now with Winona and I just face tanked it. It was satisfying to see that boss die fast and again, but it felt empty after cause she just can't do anything else anymore.

Toadstool is just weird, what do we even do to fight it? I guess there's ponds we gotta stuck it around but that's kinda the same thing as you use pillars or lureplants for cheese (that was removed) to kill him because of the high HP pool he has. We could build armies but bombs destroy their armor too fast and there's no way to recover your minions since they will choose to die anyway.

Klaus is kind of great. He is the modern equivalent to what a good balanced fight should be if in 1v1 or few people fighting him. Only issue for me is that Enraged Klaus doesn't give anything in return for killing, meaning the fight kinda feels just as a punishment than enticement to try. Makes sense I guess, but some reward for masochism is nice. He feels great, he is fun, he is one time a year event that many like to pursue.

[dst_lover]

1 minute ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

There's very few raid bosses that are old and are basically the lame ones as many would call. I'm recalling from my many years of experience of how people feel about toad and bee queen.

I dunno what's the stigma over Fuelweaver being "bad" despite the spamminess of his nature, it's like people forget that the game is about finding the tools and ways to do things faster and in more creatives ways instead of bashing out with weapon and kite. Those people I call are Neanderthals, because it's bashing a rock with a rock till bug dies instead of using everything game gives.

Bee queen is weird and awkward and she's becoming weaker now with the new skill trees presented. She's supposed to be a lot more menacing for a "raid boss" that gives most best survival items in the game now either she's clubbed down or flamed, or catapulted while she has no means to fight back. I killed bee queen with 8 catapults just now with Winona and I just face tanked it. It was satisfying to see that boss die fast and again, but it felt empty after cause she just can't do anything else anymore.

Toadstool is just weird, what do we even do to fight it? I guess there's ponds we gotta stuck it around but that's kinda the same thing as you use pillars or lureplants for cheese (that was removed) to kill him because of the high HP pool he has. We could build armies but bombs destroy their armor too fast and there's no way to recover your minions since they will choose to die anyway.

Klaus is kind of great. He is the modern equivalent to what a good balanced fight should be if in 1v1 or few people fighting him. Only issue for me is that Enraged Klaus doesn't give anything in return for killing, meaning the fight kinda feels just as a punishment than enticement to try. Makes sense I guess, but some reward for masochism is nice. He feels great, he is fun, he is one time a year event that many like to pursue.

you are right and I agree with most of the point but bee queen is weird yes but she is a lot of fun to discover a ways to beat her and i think you killing her with 8 winona catapults is just another fun way to beat her i killed the bee queen with a lot of method some are more fun then other and that why i like her because a lot of the new bosses i feel that they don't give me a reason to not face them head on with only hambat and football helmet and bee queen give me more of a reason to be creative to beat her and i think she is not made so you face her in 1 vs 1 and the same is for fuelweaver i love bosses like the bee queen and fuelweaver for that and and i think not every boss should be like klaus Even though that he is one of the best bosses on the game and batter then bee queen to me 

[00petar00]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Probably because if I was able to play as Walter while reading the Codex Umbra for Shadow Prisons & also Wickerbottoms Tentacles book while safely shooting bosses with my slingshot that I literally just stripped away the entire point of choosing to play as Walter???

How is this so hard for people to understand lol, If you have a Wickerbottom, A Maxwell or even just A Maxwell who has Wickers Books and a Walter you get the above combo, but you actually need 2-3 other players to achieve that….

it would be highly busted if Walter could achieve it all on his lonesome.

At that point, why not just start everyone out as Wilson…. And along the way unlock every single ability of every other character?

The point would be that characters would have minimal benefits and you'd choose the one you like instead of choosing a character because of an ability/perk.

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The point would be that characters would have minimal benefits and you'd choose the one you like instead of choosing a character because of an ability/perk.

I mean people often pick a character because of the unique playstyle they present if everyone can do everything character choice mostly becomes meaningless outside of different character quotes.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

if everyone can do everything character choice mostly becomes meaningless outside of different character quotes

why not

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why not

Why?

[00petar00]

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean people often pick a character because of the unique playstyle they present if everyone can do everything character choice mostly becomes meaningless outside of different character quotes.

That's exactly what I would want them to be.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, 00petar00 said:

That's what I would want to see.

Idk I just think it'd be weird seeing Wormwood get his engineering degree and lumberjack degree but it would make for a funny graduation picture at least.

On a more serious note I get it from a singleplayer perspective but from a multiplayer one it makes things far less interesting.

[00petar00]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Idk I just think it'd be weird seeing Wormwood get his engineering degree and lumberjack degree but it would make for a funny graduation picture at least.

On a more serious note I get it from a singleplayer perspective but from a multiplayer one it makes things far less interesting.

At first it was character refreshes and now we have skill trees/second character refresh. How much development time is invested into characters and cool abilities/items/structures that I will never use? With the way it is going I have lost hope in updates not having to do anything with characters in the future.

[Uedo]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Probably because if I was able to play as Walter while reading the Codex Umbra for Shadow Prisons & also Wickerbottoms Tentacles book while safely shooting bosses with my slingshot that I literally just stripped away the entire point of choosing to play as Walter???

How is this so hard for people to understand lol, If you have a Wickerbottom, A Maxwell or even just A Maxwell who has Wickers Books and a Walter you get the above combo, but you actually need 2-3 other players to achieve that….

it would be highly busted if Walter could achieve it all on his lonesome.

At that point, why not just start everyone out as Wilson…. And along the way unlock every single ability of every other character?

We can all do that Mike. Please use examples that are real please. It's like me saying 

'Winona shouldn't have exclusive items because imagine if Klaus was allowed to just walk over to our stuff and start wearing it and summoning maxwell clones whilst riding a beefalo and spinning the Year Of The Rabbit carrots? Why can't you all see how exclusivity is good? What next Dragonfly should be able to use tents and life giving amulets?! ! !!!'

I think Wilson shouldn't be able to craft anything cause his hands are made of shadows, they wouldn't be able to grab anything. 

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Why?

When though?

[Mysterious box]

13 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

At first it was character refreshes and now we have skill trees/second character refresh. How much development time is invested into characters and cool abilities/items/structures that I will never use? With the way it is going I have lost hope in updates not having to do anything with characters in the future.

Character updates are popular regardless of how we personally feel about it and we all have gripes about that to some extent so your not alone. Character updates bring the most eyes to the game and keep the most people coming back I've mentioned previously that this is a direction a lot of games go to stay relevant it's just what works.

20 minutes ago, Uedo said:

When though?

How though?

[Sir Noel]

40 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

At first it was character refreshes and now we have skill trees/second character refresh. How much development time is invested into characters and cool abilities/items/structures that I will never use? With the way it is going I have lost hope in updates not having to do anything with characters in the future.

I'm hoping after skill trees are over Klei really focuses on adding more to base game, a lot of good things are character specific, which is fine, but not a lot of good things are in base world that everyone can use, which is not fine.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

why not

Because then DST goes from having a cast of fun unique characters, to one overpowered one that can do every Freaking thing and is a glorified steam workshop mod character? Yeah… No Thanks.

[GreenBowers]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Because then DST goes from having a cast of fun unique characters, to one overpowered one that can do every Freaking thing and is a glorified steam workshop mod character? Yeah… No Thanks.

Agreed. I think characters should remain incredibly gimmicky and independent.

[Uedo]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

How though?

It depends where