The Winona catapult debate can be solved by finally removing the celestial portal

[EatenCheetos]

It’s pretty common consensus that the celestial portal was a mistake, one of Klei’s biggest mistakes at that (along with skill trees transferring between worlds). 

Just get rid of it and everything will be good again. You can reuse the art & mechanics for something else, like a renewable touch stone or something.

[gamehun20]

If they remove the portal how are you going to reset your points?

[EatenCheetos]

7 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

If they remove the portal how are you going to reset your points?

Start up a new world. Resetting points mid-run is really unfair.

Right now, for example, a Wormwood can use all of his crafting perks to build a super farm, then disable those perks once it’s done, kind of ruining the “choice” aspect from skill point allocation. 

[Arcwell]

15 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

It’s pretty common consensus that the celestial portal was a mistake

No it is not.

[Jakepeng99]

If it is a problem, they should make it hard to do like in solo dont starve instead of removing it.

[EatenCheetos]

11 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

No it is not.

It certainly is on reddit and youtube

11 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

If it is a problem, they should make it hard to do like in solo dont starve instead of removing it.

If they really want to keep it, they should make the idol cost an iridescent gem. It’s rare enough to curb abuse, and it fits better with the theming anyway.

It would be better if it was removed altogether, however

[Jakepeng99]

6 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

they should make the idol cost an iridescent gem.

I would sorta be ok with it if everyone was able to make that gem for one of each gem type like Wilsom.

[chaosmonkey]

This has been discussed to death. Why do we have to rehash it every beta?

People like being able to switch characters. It's fun. It brings novelty in long worlds. Making it cost an iridescent gem isn't going to change anything for the most ambitious players; they are easy to amass if need be. It will only hurt more casual players in medium length worlds who also want some novelty in character switching.

I hope Klei just makes a statement about the portal design and starts locking these threads.

[EatenCheetos]

7 minutes ago, chaosmonkey said:

I hope Klei just makes a statement about the portal design and starts locking these threads.

It would be nice for Klei to take an official stance, otherwise the people are going to keep asking for what they want

[Copyafriend]

17 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

It certainly is on reddit and youtube

no it is not.

[NoodlemanNed]

46 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

It’s pretty common consensus that the celestial portal was a mistake

this isnt true, quite a lot of people enjoy the mechanic

[benfroyobro9381]

The celestial portal is one of the most fun and well used mechanics in the game. The only complaint I've seen about it other than from you was from Freddo Films, who had some valid things to say. Regardless, removing the portal would be a net negative for the game since you'd be making the game less fun for the sake of balance. 

[GreenBowers]

The ratios on the comments is telling enough. This mechanic hurts nothing and there is zero point in removing it. People like to do it, if you dont like to do it, dont use it.

[EatenCheetos]

4 minutes ago, benfroyobro9381 said:

for the sake of balance

Balance is everything. How much is an accomplishment really worth when somebody else can just take shortcuts to get there too. In my worlds, I’m actively sabotaging myself by not switching to Warly then Wolfgang for the bossfights or making a super op catapult farm when I’m not even Winona.

As Wormwood, why shouldn’t I set up a farm with all crafting perks then simply respec those perks when I’m done with them. It ruins the risk / reward aspect of many parts of the game entirely. 

[Copyafriend]

1 minute ago, EatenCheetos said:

Balance is everything. How much is an accomplishment really worth when somebody else can just take shortcuts to get there too. In my worlds, I’m actively sabotaging myself by not switching to Warly then Wolfgang for the bossfights or making a super op catapult farm when I’m not even Winona.

As Wormwood, why shouldn’t I set up a farm with all crafting perks then simply respec those perks when I’m done with them. It ruins the risk / reward aspect of many parts of the game entirely. 

balance is everything... to you.

i personally am fairly wishy washy as far as balance goes. fun comes first.

and FUN sometimes requires things to be a little unbalanced. if everything works exactly as intended, than playing as efficiently as possible should be pretty dang efficient. that is fair and fun, getting a reward for the extra effort put on. like a one shot built in an rpg, it takes effort to get to 6x damage. that doesnt mean 6x damage is completely balanced, but if you're willing to switch multiple characters and make the boss wet, he better die a lot faster.

if you play things the "intended way" its perfectly fine. why worry about other people doing maximum dps builds when you're having fun just playing regularly. your accomplishment is not diminished just because someone else plays differently.

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, EatenCheetos said:

It’s pretty common consensus that the celestial portal was a mistake, one of Klei’s biggest mistakes at that (along with skill trees transferring between worlds). 

Just get rid of it and everything will be good again. You can reuse the art & mechanics for something else, like a renewable touch stone or something.

Bro you were doing a good job at subtle trolling. Now it's just too obvious. Oh well, time to block I guess.

[Well-met]

agreed

[EatenCheetos]

16 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

if you play things the "intended way" its perfectly fine. why worry about other people doing maximum dps builds when you're having fun just playing regularly.

Let me tell you, it’s a whole lot less fun knowing that I’m actively making things more difficult and all my effort is not even needed.

”Let others play how they want” doesn’t work as an argument here. Opportunity costs need to exist. The core balance of the game needs to be maintained. 

 

[GreenBowers]

Thats kind of the entire point of the game, and it seems lost on you. You make your own fun based on the character you pick and their gimmicks that you have to play around.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

Let me tell you, it’s a whole lot less fun knowing that I’m actively making things more difficult and all my effort is not even needed

that's an issue with you, a lot of people play as suboptimal characters, use suboptimal strats and don't complain, you not feeling jealous isn't worth ruining people's fun

4 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

The core balance of the game needs to be maintained

no, it isn't a competitive game and using catapults isn't even optimal for anything

[Maxil20]

22 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

Balance is everything. How much is an accomplishment really worth when somebody else can just take shortcuts to get there too. In my worlds, I’m actively sabotaging myself by not switching to Warly then Wolfgang for the bossfights or making a super op catapult farm when I’m not even Winona.

You can still play a suboptimal character and get enjoyment out of it. I played Webber for 8K days on my solo world mainly because I liked him with the only perks I used being his aggro mechanics for bunnymen when those were powerful and his beard for silk. I was not “sabotaging myself” to play another character.

Players should feel free to utilize mechanics as they so choose. The alternative is no portal and I would not prefer to go back to an era of wilderness worlds being the only way to change a character or alt accounts being the only way on non wilderness worlds.

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

If it is a problem, they should make it hard to do like in solo dont starve instead of removing it.

DS is very easy to swap characters. Assuming you have linked worlds, it only takes ~10-20 minutes to gather all the things in the world, assemble the wooden thing, and world hop. In ~10 years I have never seen anyone make a base in every single world, so the option to world hop is quite doable in most cases.

In addition, you have very little reason to swap characters since most characters play the same with one or two exceptions. Many stick as WX for the speed and stats, Wicker for books, or Woodlegs for pirate hat shenanigans. 

[EatenCheetos]

5 minutes ago, GreenBowers said:

based on the character you pick and their gimmicks that you have to play around.

Keywords here: “based on the character you pick (singular) and their gimmicks that you have to play around.”

[GreenBowers]

1 minute ago, EatenCheetos said:

Keywords here: “based on the character you pick (singular) and their gimmicks that you have to play around.”

Keywords usually mean something to focus on and understand their significance, but I think my words are lost on you.

 

 

29 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Bro you were doing a good job at subtle trolling. Now it's just too obvious. Oh well, time to block I guess.

Hey bro, how do you block people, ive been trying to figure it out for awhile and i cant find it.

[EatenCheetos]

3 minutes ago, GreenBowers said:

Keywords usually mean something to focus on and understand their significance, but I think my words are lost on you.

I think your words are lost on yourself, read them again. 

8 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

You can still play a suboptimal character and get enjoyment out of it. I played Webber for 8K days on my solo world mainly because I liked him with the only perks I used being his aggro mechanics for bunnymen when those were powerful and his beard for silk. I was not “sabotaging myself” to play another character.

That… isn’t even what we’re talking about 

12 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I would not prefer to go back to an era of wilderness worlds being the only way to change a character

I certainly would. I miss the era where you pick a character and you have to stick to it, through their upsides and downsides.

If you choose a character whose downside is that they aren’t adept at combat, you have to play around that accordingly. Nowadays you can very easily just switch to Wolfgang or Wigfrid, fight whoever you need to fight, then switch back. That’s not respecting your character’s downside and playing around it at all. It’s simply a broken mechanic; an exploit.

Saying it’s “fun” is like saying infinite health mods are fun, maybe fun to mess around with but that doesn’t mean it should be defaulted into the core game. So the argument that removing it is ruining people’s fun simply doesn’t work.

So, in summary, if Klei wants character choices to matter and downsides / opportunity costs to actually be played around, they should remove the celestial portal from the game.

[Copyafriend]

7 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

I think your words are lost on yourself, read them again. 

That… isn’t even what we’re talking about 

bro at the end of the day. the majority of the forumbase disagrees with you.

NOTHING needs to be a certain way. it's literally ENTIRELY opinion based.

So if the majority of opinions say that "no i want the celestial portal to stay"

THATS IT. end of discussion. there is no "But the balance is off"

yeah the balance is off because it's more fun that way. stop moaning and groaning and realize that your opinion that you don't like it holds exactly the importance of ONE singular person saying that they don't like it.

If you provide 1000 reasons why you don't like it, it will still just be only you not liking it, your 1000 reasons mean nothing in the face of the majority of people, liking things how they are.

it's not necessarily a democracy, and you're not WRONG for having your opinion just because more people like it than not. but at the end of the day klei's opinion rules, and the only way to sway klei's opinion, is popular consensus (which you don't have)

so just let it go man.