Winona Gaming

[JustExo]

How's everyone feeling about the Winona skill tree updates? 
I got my own opinions but I wanna see what everyone else is testing/trying with it before I draw any conclusions

[GreenBowers]

I think it was probably the best we could have gotten.

[Canis]

I feel like a third of the skill tree is just used for generic number boosts. such as "Your catapults hit a little bit harder", "Your generators are a little bit more efficient", etc etc..While having one or two of those is fine, we have three branches like that that ultimately just feels like an insight-point sink with not much reward for it.

Taking a page from Uncompromising Mode (Shocking nobody), since Winona's craftables are unstackable and take up a lot of space in her inventory (as well as the wagstaff cache stuff forcing her to either store it in her main inventory or lose them), maybe a storage option for her structures stored in the inventory could be nice? Think Wigfrid's Battle Call Canister, but a toolbox or something.

I have opinions on her planar branches, but they're obviously unfinished and unpolished, so I'll hold off for now - Although Winona being able to bypass the "Slay Fuelweaver/Champion" requirement all other characters have feels a bit odd imo.

[Golden Daemon]

I like everything about it except the fact that it indicates we will probably never get wagstaff as a playable character in the future.

[KilliasK]

It's good, not great but good. It's good because the skills are pretty strong. It's not great because the impact on her playstyle is minimal. Almost all the skills are some kinda buff to the catapults, either directly or indirectly, and most of those simply make it stronger. You're forced to get 3 of the bottom skills and two of them is an obvious must haves and the others are ok. The top level skills are interesting though. Right now I think they are unfinished so there's no point in talking about them all that much other than to say they are definitely powerful. Those skills have to potential to really make her skill tree shine and change the way you play, but right now it's mostly just winona with better catapults (and more power options) no matter how you build her. Again, take what I said with a grain of salt as Klei themselves said that the full version of her planar catapults didn't make it to the beta and the rose googles definitely doesn't appear to be finished (they give you a nightmare fuel once a day.) Overall, I like what I see thus far.

[gamehun20]

I find it odd that you can almost get both alignment trees fully 

[flamboyant wolf]

I really like it, though I think the power saver skill should be base kit. Also the shadow side doesn't seem that good, but thata may change in the future.

2 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

I find it odd that you can almost get both alignment trees fully 

I think it does make sense for Winona specifically, having ties to both sides.

[Primalflower]

everything that works is great.  i couldnt be happier. Especially with the winbot. I hope they make everything work because like 2/4 remote abilities dont rn lol

[flamboyant wolf]

3 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

everything that works is great.  i couldnt be happier. Especially with the winbot. I hope they make everything work because like 2/4 remote abilities dont rn lol

if you're talking about affinity rocks, I found the lunar one works when the gemerator is powered by pure brilliance.

[Mano Til]

How is her teleportation?

[Mysterious box]

11 minutes ago, skile said:

if you're talking about affinity rocks, I found the lunar one works when the gemerator is powered by pure brilliance.

The other works by powering the nitre one with pure horror which is interesting since it means you can use it pre rift.

[Primalflower]

57 minutes ago, Canis said:

we have three branches like that that ultimately just feels like an insight-point sink with not much reward for it.

if you're talking about the middle shelf, I feel like this is a bit of an uncharitable reading. Both generator efficiency and catapult range are extremely significant upgrades, the range one makes it so less and less mobs outspeed the catapult, and the efficiency ones are very significant in the face of the energy consumption one induces while using planar attacks. Pure brilliance seems to be guzzled down otherwise so efficiency upgrades are welcomed more in the later stages, no?

I think the attack rate enhancement is the weakest link out of these. I think it could use an improvement. Nonetheless, the fact that you can't really have all of these enhancements without sacrificing one another/alignment leads to interesting circumstantial choices, which is kind of what i think skill points are best at.

max range catapult is crazy BTW.

[Canis]

22 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

if you're talking about the middle shelf, I feel like this is a bit of an uncharitable reading. Both generator efficiency and catapult range are extremely significant upgrades, the range one makes it so less and less mobs outspeed the catapult, and the efficiency ones are very significant in the face of the energy consumption one induces while using planar attacks. Pure brilliance seems to be guzzled down otherwise so efficiency upgrades are welcomed more in the later stages, no?

I think the attack rate enhancement is the weakest link out of these. I think it could use an improvement. Nonetheless, the fact that you can't really have all of these enhancements without sacrificing one another/alignment leads to interesting circumstantial choices, which is kind of what i think skill points are best at.

max range catapult is crazy BTW.

 

Don't get me wrong, they ARE significant, but it feels like some intermediate skills could be cut to make room for another branch entirely. Ex: the Catapult damage going from +5% to +10% to +20%. I would prefer if they just cut the inconsequential 5% skill and implement either a new branch or a small handful of one-point perks. It doesnt feel like a satisfying use for insight points.

[chirsg]

Why is nobody talking about how she can change wormhole destinations?

[Ruperstiltskin]

Just now, chirsg said:

Why is nobody talking about how she can change wormhole destinations?

HUH?????

[july401]

6 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Why is nobody talking about how she can change wormhole destinations?

What？

[Primalflower]

5 minutes ago, Canis said:

Don't get me wrong, they ARE significant, but it feels like some intermediate skills could be cut to make room for another branch entirely. Ex: the Catapult damage going from +5% to +10% to +20%. I would prefer if they just cut the inconsequential 5% skill and implement either a new branch or a small handful of one-point perks. It doesnt feel like a satisfying use for insight points.

I inherently don't really disagree with the addition of a new thing, but I guess I'm just inclined to label it all as a balancing thing. Like, here how i'm thinking of it. the purpose of the 5% bonus isn't to be used by itself, it's to make the 10% and 20% more of an investment. 10% costs 2 skill points and 20% costs 3. This isn't a quirk or drawback of the system, more than it is a strategical design choice to make investing in this ordeal more significant. I think disagreeing with this concept implies a fundamental disagreeal of how skill trees kind of work, so like, if so, lol, the conversations a little moot at that point.

Either way, I think that if you just, want more options entirely, I think thats worth campaigning for by itself, I don't really think theres tooo too strong of a concept of slots here.

[GreenBowers]

 

34 minutes ago, Canis said:

Don't get me wrong, they ARE significant, but it feels like some intermediate skills could be cut to make room for another branch entirely. Ex: the Catapult damage going from +5% to +10% to +20%. I would prefer if they just cut the inconsequential 5% skill and implement either a new branch or a small handful of one-point perks. It doesnt feel like a satisfying use for insight points.

I could see maybe condensing the 5% skill to add some sort of single point upgrade, like improving tape repair efficiency or something.

[KilliasK]

56 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Why is nobody talking about how she can change wormhole destinations?

She can wat?

[mima_]

well make sense for now . winona teleport with all stuff bellow the tellebrella(idk what it called exactly)
winona can just stand above wormhole and teleport to the pad it bring anything on her feet .. 
probably will get patched .. 
 

[GreenBowers]

Its a pretty sick interaction if thats the case.

[Frashaw27]

I've been having some fun, but I will admit I am a bit confused on how to get the new items naturally as they seem to be requiring crafts that I don't know of and now I just have this doohickey hole in my inventory.

[gamehun20]

11 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

I've been having some fun, but I will admit I am a bit confused on how to get the new items naturally as they seem to be requiring crafts that I don't know of and now I just have this doohickey hole in my inventory.

Yeah it's not really explained what you need to scan for them

[Ruperstiltskin]

12 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

I've been having some fun, but I will admit I am a bit confused on how to get the new items naturally as they seem to be requiring crafts that I don't know of and now I just have this doohickey hole in my inventory.

From what i gathered, you need to get a scanner drop from the wagstaff lootboxes to scan the other loot (umbrella, telepad and roomba) but i could only actually learn the umbrella the rest seems bugged still

[gamehun20]

Just now, Ruperstiltskin said:

i could only actually learn the umbrella the rest seems bugged still

What did you scan for the umbrella?