Strong Opinions about Ocean Content.

[Theukon-dos]

Yes yes the titles a bit tongue and cheek, I know.

 

Ehem, anyways. With Klei confirming a large ocean update to be on the horizon, I think it would be a good time to look at what problems the ocean has and how they could be addressed. Lucky for us, that first question is extremely easy to figure out.

The ocean's primary problem is that most of the content found in it is either self-referential or only serves as a side grade that fails to distinguish itself enough to justify.

 

Now, there are two parts to that, so let's dissect them one by one.

First, "Ocean content is self-referential" means that things you can get on the ocean are usually focused more on the ocean itself than in general. This is a problem because it means that if the player spends a lot of time on the ocean, they'll see very little return on that investment once they have to go back onto land where the rest of the game's content is.

And "Fails to distinguish itself to justify" means that even if something on the ocean DOES have a use on the mainland, it generally fills the same niche as something that already exists. And instead of being a straight improvement to reflect the increased amount of time and effort it takes to obtain, it generally has some caviat that makes it hardly worth going after for its own sake.

Driftwood and Malbatross are two very good examples of this.

Driftwood is a fairly common resource on the ocean. It's used to make the tackle recpetical, driftwood oar, and Driftwood bobber among other things we'll get too soon. (Also turf but that's aesthetic).

 

And Malbatross drops her feathers, which can combined with driftwood to make an upgraded sail, and the malbatross bill, which is the best oar in the game.

 

The vast, vast majority of the things these items are used for are only useful to remain on the ocean. The sole exception is that you can combine Driftwood and the Malbatross bill to make the Waterfowl can... which is just a completely regular watering can with 4x the capacity. No special usage, no unique niche to differenciate it. It's just... a bigger watering can. 4x the capacity for a good 40x the effort if you ask me.

 

And that's generally the pattern for ocean content as a whole. The Salt Box is more effective than the ice box, but can only hold raw ingredients, or the Knobbly Trees which can prevent wildfires below them, but can only be planted off-shore, thus limiting how much they can protect.

 

Though this is the main issue with the ocean, and what I think Klei should focus on the most, there are a few more specific things I'd like to see addressed.

 

~~~

Ocean Food

Something that I think is interesting is that there is a LOT of food available on the ocean. Kelp, Fish, sea weeds, figs, ect. But it's also all quite mediocre. Ocean-based food sources as a whole tend to have middling stats, but also lean heavily into mid-low perish times. The best fish dish Surf n' Turf can be made with freshwater fish and monster meat. Wobster makes good dishes but can be caught from shore. Figs... exist. Sea Weeds are actually quite nice, I have a soft spot for barnacles and their dishes are actually good. But again, they tend to lean towards shorter spoilage timers.

More damning though is the food surrounding the ocean. During the Return of Them arc, Klei took a brief break to release Reap What you Sow, which made farming into one of the best food sources in the game as a high commitment, extremely high yeild option for players. And a couple years later we got the A Little Drama update, which introduced Tall Scotch Eggs which is quite possibly the recipe of all time.

For reference, the Fig Stuffed Trunk was introduced with the Waterlogged biome. Is indefinitly more expensive (1 fig+1 trunk versus 1 tallbird egg and 1 veggie), heals the same amount of HP, restores no sanity, has a third of the hunger restoration (despite the fact that the trunk alone has half of it), and spoils in 2/3rds the time. I genuinly don't know what Klei was trying to cook with this one.

 

~~~

Crab King

Look, there have been half a dozen threads talking about this crusty ol' crab over the last week, there's nothing left for me to say here. I am in the camp that thinks CK should be reworked from the ground up, but no matter what happens, people will find a way to argue about it.

 

~~~

Monkey Raids.

Klei, I'm not going to sugar coat it.

These are the single worst thing you have ever added.

I have complained so, so much over the last couple years about everything. I've complained about the ocean sucking massive dookie. I've complained about planar mechanics. I've complained about skill trees. I've complained about the pursuit of the unstable buisness model of infinite growth at the cost of the core player base.

But Monkey Raids? Those are so, so much worse than all of that combined. Monkey Raids are without question fundementally broken on every single level but conceptual.

Don't fight back against the Monkeys? They steal your stuff and if the pirate stache hits the item cap, they delete items instead of just spawning a new one.

Do fight back? get forced to pick up a cursed trinket, which at best steals a valuable inventory slot, and at worse completley changes what character you're playing.

Want to break the curse? There's no good way to find the Moon Quey other than "I was raided, so it's somewhere on this side of the map". No indicator, no hidden pirate map, nothing.

Let pirates steal your stuff so you don't have to deal with this? The only way to get a map to find your items is by killing a monkey anyways.

There are legitimately no redeeming qualities about monkey raids. No clever tactic to get around them, nothing. And you want to know the worst part? The Moon Quey itself is EXACTLY what the ocean needed. Replantable reeds and bananna bushes? Dock kits to turn shallow ocean into usable turf? Cannons? The Moon Quey has a ton of legitimately great stuff. But apparently the ocean actually having something of value was enough to justify the Devil's own pirate army to the game.

 

~~~

Possible Solutions

Now I don't like bringing up problems without following up with solutions. And I won't say that all of these are the best, but they're mine and I like them.

 

1. Buff the salt box to; instead of only holding raw ingredients; being able to hold anything but cooked ones. Raw veggies, dried meats, honey, light bulbs, what have you. Still technically a side-grade, but much stronger to justify the higher cost.

2. A way to plant Knobly Trees on dry land. I don't care if it's expensive, so long as it's an option.

3. Make summer the "Ocean Season". This one's probably a bit ambitious for what's advertised as a QoL update. But I think it would be a really good choice. Summer isn't popular either, so giving it even a minor overhaul with a focus on ocean content would kill two birds with one stone. Give the ocean an inherit heat insulation, nerf the Eyebrella's summer insulation (the wetness protection stays, don't worry) and add a new hat with 240 summer insulation made with ocean resources, add new resources to the ocean that only show up during the summer. That sort of thing, y'know?

4. More ocean-based character perks. This one feels like the most likely option with Klei's focus on skill trees (Which I also have strong opinions about but that's for another time). Just, y'know. More perks that require the player to go sailing inorder to make use of. Here's an example. Give Walter moonglass rounds. Give these rounds marble-level damage and maybe a small perk like minor AOE. And this would solve so, so many of the character's issues that it's not even funny.

[Jakepeng99]

18 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Monkey Raids.

Klei, I'm not going to sugar coat it.

These are the single worst thing you have ever added.

I have complained so, so much over the last couple years about everything. I've complained about the ocean sucking massive dookie. I've complained about planar mechanics. I've complained about skill trees. I've complained about the pursuit of the unstable buisness model of infinite growth at the cost of the core player base.

But Monkey Raids? Those are so, so much worse than all of that combined. Monkey Raids are without question fundementally broken on every single level but conceptual.

Don't fight back against the Monkeys? They steal your stuff and if the pirate stache hits the item cap, they delete items instead of just spawning a new one.

Do fight back? get forced to pick up a cursed trinket, which at best steals a valuable inventory slot, and at worse completley changes what character you're playing.

Want to break the curse? There's no good way to find the Moon Quey other than "I was raided, so it's somewhere on this side of the map". No indicator, no hidden pirate map, nothing.

Let pirates steal your stuff so you don't have to deal with this? The only way to get a map to find your items is by killing a monkey anyways.

There are legitimately no redeeming qualities about monkey raids. No clever tactic to get around them, nothing. And you want to know the worst part? The Moon Quey itself is EXACTLY what the ocean needed. Replantable reeds and bananna bushes? Dock kits to turn shallow ocean into usable turf? Cannons? The Moon Quey has a ton of legitimately great stuff. But apparently the ocean actually having something of value was enough to justify the Devil's own pirate army to the game.

Spitting facts here.

I made a thread before about a rework i will think will fix it. In summary add different boat types with different mechanics to play around, remove the dumb stuff, make the captain send a monkey or two gradually onto your boat while the rest defend, make the trinkets and loot be all inside an optional chest, add new loot too.

 

Also, add a craftable monkey shrine that is essentially a portable monkey queen to de-curse you (make a mast upgrade variation). Make 5 trinkets get removed at a time.

18 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

. A way to plant Knobly Trees on dry land. I don't care if it's expensive, so long as it's an option.

 

18 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Figs... exist

Alot of good things exist on this post, but this is a bad opinion. Letting them be placed on land ruins the unique limitation they have. Figs are perfect right now. They are great for Summer since everything under them is immune to overheating and wildfires. The figs are also great as a byproduct, but figatoni is the only good dish though which is where you are right. The meat dishes need buffed.

[marshyds]

13 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Something that I think is interesting is that there is a LOT of food available on the ocean. Kelp, Fish, sea weeds, figs, ect. But it's also all quite mediocre. Ocean-based food sources as a whole tend to have middling stats, but also lean heavily into mid-low perish times. The best fish dish Surf n' Turf can be made with freshwater fish and monster meat. Wobster makes good dishes but can be caught from shore. Figs... exist. Sea Weeds are actually quite nice, I have a soft spot for barnacles and their dishes are actually good. But again, they tend to lean towards shorter spoilage timers.

Does moonquay and the lunar island's foods count? because stone fruit and bananas are imo one of the best foods in the game.

Ive yapped a lot about ocean concepts and it usually comes down to adding some new plant or food to both add life to the place and a reward for being thorough and collecting every plant there is.

Imo the ocean being a good source of food is a good idea and on theme with lunar and moonquay. Maybe the ocean could add even more ways to maximize farming, since growth formuler exists?

13 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Figs... exist.

Figs are a lot of effort for minimal use, It should need more crafting recipes than a gumbo that can fix your boat and grow trees.

13 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Make summer the "Ocean Season". This one's probably a bit ambitious for what's advertised as a QoL update. But I think it would be a really good choice. Summer isn't popular either, so giving it even a minor overhaul with a focus on ocean content would kill two birds with one stone. Give the ocean an inherit heat insulation, nerf the Eyebrella's summer insulation (the wetness protection stays, don't worry) and add a new hat with 240 summer insulation made with ocean resources, add new resources to the ocean that only show up during the summer. That sort of thing, y'know?

This is a cool idea, would be even cooler if it was possible to make a good sustainable base in the ocean so that it becomes an alternative to cave insulation.

[Jimothywastaken]

11 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

A lot of good things exist on this post, but this is a bad opinion. Letting them be placed on land ruins the unique limitation they have.

I honestly agree with this but instead of land placement i would like to see a way to increase the radius of knobbly tree canopy (maybe upgrading the canopy would also increase the amount of fig branches???)

[Jakepeng99]

18 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

. Make summer the "Ocean Season". This one's probably a bit ambitious for what's advertised as a QoL update. But I think it would be a really good choice. Summer isn't popular either, so giving it even a minor overhaul with a focus on ocean content would kill two birds with one stone. Give the ocean an inherit heat insulation, nerf the Eyebrella's summer insulation (the wetness protection stays, don't worry) and add a new hat with 240 summer insulation made with ocean resources, add new resources to the ocean that only show up during the summer. That sort of thing, y'know?

Also, i thought Summer was the "Caves season"

[Theukon-dos]

15 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Alot of good things exist on this post, but this is a bad opinion. Letting them be placed on land ruins the unique limitation they have. Figs are perfect right now. They are great for Summer since everything under them is immune to overheating and wildfires. The figs are also great as a byproduct, but figatoni is the only good dish though which is where you are right. The meat dishes need buffed.

Yes. That was my point. The unique limitation is unnessesary because they're already much more effort to grow and move than other ways to prevent wildfires; bar maybe the Crystaleyezer.

5 hours ago, marshyds said:

Does moonquay and the lunar island's foods count? because stone fruit and bananas are imo one of the best foods in the game.

Ive yapped a lot about ocean concepts and it usually comes down to adding some new plant or food to both add life to the place and a reward for being thorough and collecting every plant there is.

Imo the ocean being a good source of food is a good idea and on theme with lunar and moonquay. Maybe the ocean could add even more ways to maximize farming, since growth formuler exists?

Figs are a lot of effort for minimal use, It should need more crafting recipes than a gumbo that can fix your boat and grow trees.

This is a cool idea, would be even cooler if it was possible to make a good sustainable base in the ocean so that it becomes an alternative to cave insulation.

Stonefruit is good. I've never really used Banana Bushes, but stonefruit is good. But it's more the outlier than the rule.

32 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Also, i thought Summer was the "Caves season"

Summer is the "Cave Season" in the same way that November is McRib season. There's really nothing connecting the two, but tempatures (and pork prices) are low so you may aswell.

[Swiyss]

20 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Look, there have been half a dozen threads talking about this crusty ol' crab over the last week, there's nothing left for me to say here. I am in the camp that thinks CK should be reworked from the ground up, but no matter what happens, people will find a way to argue about it.

Just. Tell. Me. Why.

There is no reason to.

20 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Monkey Raids.

Klei makes an amazing update, everyone hates it because it is uncompromising, and then now klei will probably nerf this to oblivion, making the whole thing useless to be added anyways because only a portion of people don't like it.

I like it, it gives me a reason to find moonquay AND a reason to find pirate stashes in the mainland to recover my stuff.

btw, don't wanna deal with pirate monekeys anymore? just bundle bananas from ruins in a bundling wrap and leave it on your boat, then place 1 on the boat when pirates come and fix the hole they made/use kelp protection. It is actually so easy to avoid it is disgusting you're asking for a further nerf to it.

20 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

1. Buff the salt box to; instead of only holding raw ingredients; being able to hold anything but cooked ones. Raw veggies, dried meats, honey, light bulbs, what have you. Still technically a side-grade, but much stronger to justify the higher cost.

salt box doesn't need a buff.

20 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

A way to plant Knobly Trees on dry land. I don't care if it's expensive, so long as it's an option.

it would defeat the whole purpose of the thing being in the ocean to begin with.

 

20 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

3. Make summer the "Ocean Season". This one's probably a bit ambitious for what's advertised as a QoL update. But I think it would be a really good choice. Summer isn't popular either, so giving it even a minor overhaul with a focus on ocean content would kill two birds with one stone. Give the ocean an inherit heat insulation, nerf the Eyebrella's summer insulation (the wetness protection stays, don't worry) and add a new hat with 240 summer insulation made with ocean resources, add new resources to the ocean that only show up during the summer. That sort of thing, y'know?

that would make one of our storytelling trailers useless since the characters are suffering from heat in a boat. Also that shouldve been the thing from the beggining, it is impossible to apply this currently.

[Theukon-dos]

4 hours ago, Swiyss said:

 

There is no reason to.

Klei makes an amazing update, everyone hates it because it is uncompromising, and then now klei will probably nerf this to oblivion, making the whole thing useless to be added anyways because only a portion of people don't like it.

I like it, it gives me a reason to find moonquay AND a reason to find pirate stashes in the mainland to recover my stuff.

btw, don't wanna deal with pirate monekeys anymore? just bundle bananas from ruins in a bundling wrap and leave it on your boat, then place 1 on the boat when pirates come and fix the hole they made/use kelp protection. It is actually so easy to avoid it is disgusting you're asking for a further nerf to it.

that would make one of our storytelling trailers useless since the characters are suffering from heat in a boat. Also that shouldve been the thing from the beggining, it is impossible to apply this currently.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

Seriously though. Monkey Raids are not "Uncompromising". They're bulls***. The Moon Quey already has really good stuff to justify finding it. And expecting players to kill one of the worst bosses in the game just so they can keep bananas on-hand to bribe them off. The ocean as a whole is not nearly useful enough to justify such an incredibly punishing and poorly-designed mechanic.

Again. I've complained a lot in the past. But Monkey Raids are the one thing I won't budge on. They are awful on every single conceivable metric. And there is no argument to be had.

 

Also, I don't think that would be an issue. If nothing else, it's nowhere near as egregious as Winona's short showing Wagstaff getting sucked into the constant, but the intermission short showing how he's projecting himself in.

 

[Jakepeng99]

7 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Yes. That was my point. The unique limitation is unnessesary because they're already much more effort to grow and move than other ways to prevent wildfires; bar maybe the Crystaleyezer

The limitation is what makes it fun and interesting. It is the best way to deal with wild fires too. Its one of the main reasons to go to the ocean.

On 5/4/2024 at 4:46 AM, Theukon-dos said:

. Buff the salt box to; instead of only holding raw ingredients; being able to hold anything but cooked ones. Raw veggies, dried meats, honey, light bulbs, what have you. Still technically a side-grade, but much stronger to justify the higher cost.

I missed this one, but it does not need a buff in the slightest. It is already a top teir item.

6 hours ago, Swiyss said:

Klei makes an amazing update, everyone hates it because it is uncompromising, and then now klei will probably nerf this to oblivion, making the whole thing useless to be added anyways because only a portion of people don't like it.

I like it, it gives me a reason to find moonquay AND a reason to find pirate stashes in the mainland to recover my stuff.

btw, don't wanna deal with pirate monekeys anymore? just bundle bananas from ruins in a bundling wrap and leave it on your boat, then place 1 on the boat when pirates come and fix the hole they made/use kelp protection. It is actually so easy to avoid it is disgusting you're asking for a further nerf to it.

No, it is unfair and unfun, not uncompromising. They come on all at once, make you drop items, destroy stuff on your boat, and steal stuff on their barren pancake that is barely a ship with mickey mouse as a hunch backed captain. You are punished for winning too and are forced to go out of your way and waste time at the moon quay queen.

They should be reworked. When one spawns, i just leave instantly to despawn it. Many of my friends do the same because nobody likes them.

 

What also makes them worse is the bandaid fixes, like bribing them with a banana or shooting them with a cannon. They should remove or rework these and make them fightable and enjoyable instead.

The bandaid fix for the trinkets is toxic too. Making them drop when you die is a pain because anyone including yourself can accidently pick them up. It just feels really bad when you do it.

 

 

 

They have potential to be great and interesting, but right now they are bland, unfair and unfun so i hope klei fixes them.

[marshyds]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They have potential to be great and interesting, but right now they are bland, unfair and unfun so i hope klei fixes them.

1. Monkey raids should only happen AFTER you've stepped foot on moonquay and LEFT. 

2. Monkey raids should have a bonus reward of their loot stash (that isin't your ******* items), the booty would be located on their blessed monkey boat in the form of a pile. Monkeys would also just fight to death instead of paddling away.

Idea for the blessed monkey treasure pile drops:

- [Blue or red gem] x 1 50%

- [Banana bush or monkey tail] x 5 100% (Mostly because waiting for the damn items to drop before moonstorms sucks)

- [Nitre] x 10-20 100% (Monkey pirates would need cannonballs, so why not?)

- [Grass and twigs] x 10-15 100% (Resources are scarce.)

- [Purple or ruins gems] x 1 25%

ect.

3. Monkey pirates should set up a camp somewhere on the main island during first summer, that way you can find a map to their homeland: moonquay.

[Szczuku]

On 5/4/2024 at 5:46 AM, Theukon-dos said:

Let pirates steal your stuff so you don't have to deal with this? The only way to get a map to find your items is by killing a monkey anyways

Actually, you can come across the stolen items simply by exploring the map. The pirate map only serves to mark the x's location on your map. Unless it's just a bug,of course. Cuz I've had like 3 run-ins with the burried treasure simply by walking around

[Captain_Rage]

Yeah, sometimes you hear the monkey pirate chant but they never appear. Instead an X appears on the continent. The monkey complaints are vastly exaggerated. There is a way to find the Moon Quay: you sail for half a day around the area you heard the pirates and find it. It is really not a biggie, unless you are extremely new to the game or are low on food to continue the voyage.

Bonus points for omitting mentioning cannons which could deal with the raids the way that you want and yet complaining that there is no method for doing so. xd Even sleeping the pirates and sailing away is an option.

The ocean is technically pretty fine as it is. The only mind boggling thing is the amount of random sea stacks littering the ocean, plus the lack of seasonal changes is a bit dull. If the ocean was full with stuff it would be extremely boring to be honest.

[Jakepeng99]

4 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

Bonus points for omitting mentioning cannons which could deal with the raids the way that you want and yet complaining that there is no method for doing so. xd Even sleeping the pirates and sailing away is an option.

Its a sucky solution. They are unbearable otherwise and it is just a bandaid solution. I would rather sink their ship with a few cannonballs which would feel rewarding and satisfting, but instead they just run away and despawn.

[Swiyss]

10 hours ago, marshyds said:

Monkey raids should only happen AFTER you've stepped foot on moonquay and LEFT. 

lol no. How would a new player find moon quay without actively searching for it? It's probably easier to get attacked by pirates before reaching the island. Then they'll probably try to get rid of the accursed trinket, so they'll search for a way to do it. It's a great mechanic that you "veterans" hate but it's actually great for the game. The Binding of Isaac:Repentance has sooo many mechanics like this, and instead of hating it, this is what people like the most.

[lowercase skye]

On 5/3/2024 at 11:46 PM, Theukon-dos said:

Let pirates steal your stuff so you don't have to deal with this? The only way to get a map to find your items is by killing a monkey anyways.

Powder Monkeys don't have any sense of "value" when it comes to what items they grab: iirc you can drop literally 10 cut grass and they'll grab each one individually and immediately leave. Might've been 20, not sure. If you don't want to fight them, it's just a minor annoyance.

On 5/3/2024 at 11:46 PM, Theukon-dos said:

There's no good way to find the Moon Quey other than "I was raided, so it's somewhere on this side of the map". No indicator, no hidden pirate map, nothing.

This complaint always gets parroted about the Moon Quay and I won't lie it's the silliest thing ever. You can easily find the Moon Quay in the first few days by just rowing around each corner with a driftwood oar, but if you've already gotten a pirate raid you literally already KNOW the corner, so you can just row there. I don't know why people are so averse to just rowing for a few minutes.

[marshyds]

9 hours ago, Swiyss said:

lol no. How would a new player find moon quay without actively searching for it?

i literally gave a way to find it

[BB Marioni]

please make sea stacks relocatable, for a hassle-free barnacle farming experience XD

[Bumber64]

On 5/5/2024 at 1:29 AM, Szczuku said:

Actually, you can come across the stolen items simply by exploring the map. The pirate map only serves to mark the x's location on your map. Unless it's just a bug,of course. Cuz I've had like 3 run-ins with the burried treasure simply by walking around

You can also let them steal a moonlens.

[Mike23Ua]

On 5/4/2024 at 7:11 PM, Swiyss said:

Just. Tell. Me. Why.

There is no reason to.

Klei makes an amazing update, everyone hates it because it is uncompromising, and then now klei will probably nerf this to oblivion, making the whole thing useless to be added anyways because only a portion of people don't like it.

I like it, it gives me a reason to find moonquay AND a reason to find pirate stashes in the mainland to recover my stuff.

btw, don't wanna deal with pirate monekeys anymore? just bundle bananas from ruins in a bundling wrap and leave it on your boat, then place 1 on the boat when pirates come and fix the hole they made/use kelp protection. It is actually so easy to avoid it is disgusting you're asking for a further nerf to it.

salt box doesn't need a buff.

it would defeat the whole purpose of the thing being in the ocean to begin with.

 

that would make one of our storytelling trailers useless since the characters are suffering from heat in a boat. Also that shouldve been the thing from the beggining, it is impossible to apply this currently.

Uhm.. I am so very highly confused, the ruins is the absolute last place a beginner or even intermediate player needs to be in this game, so why on earth are you suggesting players go to the ruins for of all things… bananas?!

IF a player manages to find Moon Quay Island then, the player can just get banana bushes from said Island and plant those elsewhere, these bushes even periodically spawn endlessly out the Unnatural portal found on the island, and it’s also how I as a #Wendy Main, managed to once obtain and then equally get rid of over 20 cursed trinkets.

Some things that should be mentioned here is that the pirate Monkeys will stop trying to steal from you if you are Wonkey, which makes the mechanic more than just a terrible mechanic, it allows the player to successfully infiltrate their island without being blasted upon by the islands defensive canon turrets, gather whatever you may want from the island and then leave (while still playing as Wonkey..) once you finally get home and have your banana bush farm set up you will then harvest said bananas and return to Monkey Island to trade them with their Queen to remove your become a monkey curse..

Its that simple.

Now a few things that I would like to suggest to Klei to improve upon this is that #1- Finding moon quay is a pain in the back end, and if a player was to become cursed to be Wonkey, they are stuck this way until they locate the dumb tiny island…

In the original implementation of this the player could simply follow the direction pirate raids were coming from to find the island, but when Klei Nerfed to ever loving hell out of this mechanic, pirate raids don’t spawn unless your already very close to the island anyway now.

Which throws the entire concept of killing monkeys = becoming cursed monkey out the window after it’s been set on fire.

#2- Since there’s no way to reliably find Moon Quay thanks to the above annoying Nerf changes, I want to suggest that Klei Un-Nerf pirate raids and make them more frequent however… with a few Key and necessary changes.

becoming Wonkey instantly reveals the location of Moon Quay on the players map, this will actually ENCOURAGE becoming cute Monkey… if the player is cute Monkey, Pirate Raids will ignore their boat, if the player is NOT cute monkey… bananas can bribe them away or- Boat canons can be fired in the water near them to force them to flee away.

final thing I should mention is that the mobs on moon quay have daylight cycle behaviors, so if you want to go to the island and gather resources WITHOUT being robbed blind, do it when the monkeys are all sleeping and not on lookout.

But telling players to go to ruins for bananas when moon quay itself spawns the solution from an endless supply drop on the island, is simply inexperience with the islands contents.

[Theukon-dos]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Uhm.. I am so very highly confused, the ruins is the absolute last place a beginner or even intermediate player needs to be in this game, so why on earth are you suggesting players go to the ruins for of all things… bananas?!

IF a player manages to find Moon Quay Island then, the player can just get banana bushes from said Island and plant those elsewhere, these bushes even periodically spawn endlessly out the Unnatural portal found on the island, and it’s also how I as a #Wendy Main, managed to once obtain and then equally get rid of over 20 cursed trinkets.

Some things that should be mentioned here is that the pirate Monkeys will stop trying to steal from you if you are Wonkey, which makes the mechanic more than just a terrible mechanic, it allows the player to successfully infiltrate their island without being blasted upon by the islands defensive canon turrets, gather whatever you may want from the island and then leave (while still playing as Wonkey..) once you finally get home and have your banana bush farm set up you will then harvest said bananas and return to Monkey Island to trade them with their Queen to remove your become a monkey curse..

Its that simple.

Now a few things that I would like to suggest to Klei to improve upon this is that #1- Finding moon quay is a pain in the back end, and if a player was to become cursed to be Wonkey, they are stuck this way until they locate the dumb tiny island…

In the original implementation of this the player could simply follow the direction pirate raids were coming from to find the island, but when Klei Nerfed to ever loving hell out of this mechanic, pirate raids don’t spawn unless your already very close to the island anyway now.

Which throws the entire concept of killing monkeys = becoming cursed monkey out the window after it’s been set on fire.

#2- Since there’s no way to reliably find Moon Quay thanks to the above annoying Nerf changes, I want to suggest that Klei Un-Nerf pirate raids and make them more frequent however… with a few Key and necessary changes.

becoming Wonkey instantly reveals the location of Moon Quay on the players map, this will actually ENCOURAGE becoming cute Monkey… if the player is cute Monkey, Pirate Raids will ignore their boat, if the player is NOT cute monkey… bananas can bribe them away or- Boat canons can be fired in the water near them to force them to flee away.

final thing I should mention is that the mobs on moon quay have daylight cycle behaviors, so if you want to go to the island and gather resources WITHOUT being robbed blind, do it when the monkeys are all sleeping and not on lookout.

But telling players to go to ruins for bananas when moon quay itself spawns the solution from an endless supply drop on the island, is simply inexperience with the islands contents.

They should add Banana Eels that spawn anywhere monkey raids can spawn, and these can be fished up and killed for a banana. Atleast then the ability to bribe the monkeys off would be practical to do.

[benfroyobro9381]

11 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

They should add Banana Eels that spawn. Anywhere monkey raids can spawn, and these can be fished up and killed for a banana. Atleast then the ability to bribe the monkeys off would be practical to do.

That sounds hilarious and genius. I think other items that should or already scare or intimidate mobs like the whip or Wigfrid/Maxwell's scaring abilties should thwart off the monkey pirates. 

I do think monkey pirate raids could have some improvements to rewards or other uses since if the main way people want to handle the monkeys is to avoid them or give them twigs/garbage, then that means they're not seen as fun to interact with. I think as stated by others in this thread, the monkeys could help lead to the moon quay. I also think the loot table for the sunken treasures could be improved; they're abysmal. Banana shakes, bandanas, a decent blueprint but only useful the first time, and the stuff they stole from you? I think a small chance for gems, ruins gear, other crockpot dishes, and more could make the pirates less of a nuisance and more exciting to ecounter. 

More ways to get rid of the trinkets would also make encountering the pirates less of a hastle. I think a major reason that people are less willing to fight them is because of the trinkets. They take up a whole inventory slot and until you kill yourself and never approach the spot where you died again or go all the way back to King Kong it'll stay that way. I think scaled furnace to destory them could be valid since it's midish-latish game for the average player and still requires some effort depending on how many or where it is. Regardless it'll give players more options but my point is more options to deal with trinkets or to find the island will help. Maybe a blueprint from the monkey queen for a structure that removes or destroys the trinkets, and the island will still remain useful to revisit due to the unnatural portal. 

As for ways to find the island, the buried treasure from the monkeys having a decent-guaranteed chance of finding the island, a monkey related boss on the mainland(plz Klei King Kong in dst), some sort of message in a bottle system, a map you can buy from Pearl(Maybe you can buy all the major ocean locations from Pearl? Just a thought), or loot directly from the monkeys are all valid.