[Game Update] - 599141

[Pet Rock]

57 minutes ago, grm9 said:

was no need to remove cheese to change lazy explorer controller stuff and there won't be a need to remove voidwalking to add a more consistent and fun way to find atrium tentapillar,

There is no need to keep the exploit in the game once better alternatives are in the game. It would be redundant to leave a bug in the game when an in-game alternative for it already exists. If you are unhappy with the proper implementation I have come up with, feel free to think of your own.

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

wdym?

If cheese-less ways to kill the fuelweaver are so much faster, then why use the lureplant exploit?

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

you also still didn't say how is someone cheesing FW on a server you're playing on detrimental

I don't have the will or the skill to prepare and fight him that quickly. I would rather spend that time playing the game instead of being forced to rush to the ruins and kill the final boss before spring.

57 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because there are dedicated servers that often have no admins online on them, e.g. klei servers and it's bothersome for both, people asking and people having to answer

fair point. Still solved by having intended replacements though.

[grm9]

1 hour ago, Pet Rock said:

There is no need to keep the exploit in the game once better alternatives are in the game. It would be redundant to leave a bug in the game when an in-game alternative for it already exists. If you are unhappy with the proper implementation I have come up with, feel free to think of your own

devs might end up adding something that still won't be enjoyable, i'd still prefer to voidwalk if some sort of fight like werepig would've been required that would boil down to walking to the side to win

1 hour ago, Pet Rock said:

If cheese-less ways to kill the fuelweaver are so much faster, then why use the lureplant exploit?

i never did, but some people did because of not liking the fight or being unable to do it or not wanting to fight it after 1st time

1 hour ago, Pet Rock said:

I don't have the will or the skill to prepare and fight him that quickly. I would rather spend that time playing the game instead of being forced to rush to the ruins and kill the final boss before spring

then why complain about someone killing him in spring using cheese even though they could've also killed it on day 4 without cheese?

1 hour ago, Pet Rock said:

fair point. Still solved by having intended replacements though

they might still end up not being enjoyable, especially considering that imo bosses only got worse since CC or terraria eyes, not sure about which got released 1st

Edited April 5, 2024 by grm9

[EatenCheetos]

6 hours ago, grm9 said:

because there are dedicated servers that often have no admins online on them, e.g. klei servers and it's bothersome for both, people asking and people having to answer

Those server’s definitely shouldn’t have cheating on them, yet you argue in favor of that? I can’t take you seriously. Your argument is so ridiculous that you have got to be rage baiting.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

Those server’s definitely shouldn’t have cheating on them, yet you argue in favor of that?

how does someone using cheese on a server negatively affect you?

[EatenCheetos]

Just now, grm9 said:

how does someone using cheese on a server negatively affect you?

 Talk about missing the point…

[Gashzer]

12 hours ago, grm9 said:

how does someone using cheese on a server negatively affect you?

That someone using cheese will be less likely to recruit me for a boss fight if they can cheese it without my help. Hence destroying the entire reason for playing on public servers to start with, which is for playing through the game together with other people. Even for things like finding the atrium, a team of three people could quickly work together and coordinate to kill all the big tentacles to find the atrium or a single person who cheats using voidwalking wouldnt even need to ask for help an just go themselves.

Do you see the problem grm9? The indirect negative consequences to the ideology of "ah just let others do what they want it doesnt effect you..." cause it 100% does just its not at first obivous.

Cheeses/exploits/bugs undermine the entire coop experience which Klei has been trying to build.

 

Edited April 6, 2024 by Gashzer

[grm9]

5 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

That someone using cheese will be less likely to recruit me for a boss fight if they can cheese it without my help

i wouldn't want someone to help me anyway even if i wouldn't have been using cheese and you can still ask people if they want to do it without cheese with other players and with that logic you should ban being good at the game so people'll require others to do anything and no one owes you playing with you, you could have no one interact with you on a pub without anyone using cheese simply because they don't need help or aren't talking in english or whatever they're trying to do is easier to do solo e.g. FW without AoE because someone could lure FW into woven shadows and reset FW's hp back to full

Edited April 6, 2024 by grm9

[Gashzer]

Just now, grm9 said:

i wouldn't want someone to help me anyway even if i wouldn't have been using cheese and you can still ask people if they want to do it without cheese with other players and with that logic you should ban being good at the game so people'll require others to do anything and no one owes you playing with you, you could have no one interact with you on a pub without anyone using cheese simply because they don't need help or aren't talking in english

Yeah i dont need help either for alot of bosses too but the average player does hence why lureplant being fixed caused abit of outrage.

We cant control what people do on public servers but klei can create more opportunities for people to want to engage with each other instead of cheeses/exploits/bugs removing these opportunities.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

We cant control what people do on public servers but klei can create more opportunities for people to want to engage with each other instead of cheeses/exploits/bugs removing these opportunities

how would it be fun for them to fight a boss that they don't like, considering they were cheesing it, but with another player? at that point it'd probably be best for the player that wanted to help to do the boss solo to have fun doing that and for the player that wanted to cheese it because of not liking it to not interact with the boss at all

5 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Yeah i dont need help either for alot of bosses too but the average player does hence why lureplant being fixed caused abit of outrage

a lot of people wanted it back because of stuff like moon rock duping through moonstone and many simply didn't want to fight some bosses after the 1st time because FW with brightshade staff, thurible, bone helm, brightshade sword, brightshade helm and void robe is easy and boring

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

how would it be fun for them to fight a boss that they don't like, considering they were cheesing it, but with another player? at that point it'd probably be best for the player that wanted to help to do the boss solo to have fun doing that and for the player that wanted to cheese it because of not liking it to not interact with the boss at all

"How would it be fun for them to fight a boss that they don't like" exactly the question klei should be asking about ancient fuelweaver! Why do alot of people prefer to use cheese/exploits/bugs for FW?

Thats a clear sign that ancient fuelweaver needs reworks and tweaked. Don't you agree?

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

a lot of people wanted it back because of stuff like moon rock duping through moonstone 

Im sure klei can introduce a better way to reproduce moon rocks thats not glitchy.

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

1st time because FW with brightshade staff, thurible, bone helm, brightshade sword, brightshade helm and void robe is easy and boring

Using lureplant is also easy and boring? Whats the difference? Just fight him legit if its so quick and easy.

And shoehorning players to kill CC and activate rifts before ancient fuelweaver is limiting options for players to choose what they want to do. Ancient fuelweaver is insanely hard on consoles unless you have brightshade staff.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

"How would it be fun for them to fight a boss that they don't like" exactly the question klei should be asking about ancient fuelweaver! Why do alot of people prefer to use cheese/exploits/bugs for FW?

Thats a clear sign that ancient fuelweaver needs reworks and tweaked. Don't you agree?

i don't, because it's inevitable that some people'll like something and some won't, otherwise i'm waiting for werepig and mutated bosses reworks because imo they suck and are the most boring bosses aside from minibosses like fruit fly

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Im sure klei can introduce a better way to reproduce moon rocks thats not glitchy

then they can remove moon rock duping after they do that if everyone'll like the new way more, which won't happen because there'll still be people that'll prefer to do it that way so there's no reason to remove it

5 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Using lureplant is also easy and boring? Whats the difference?

can do something else at least, better to spend a few mins being afk and doing something else instead of doing a fight that you can't fail

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Just fight him legit if its so quick and easy

i don't even play during late game, most of my worlds end before summer because all interesting stuff is done by then

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

And shoehorning players to kill CC and activate rifts before ancient fuelweaver is limiting options for players to choose what they want to do

that's the point, you can either spend a lot of time getting preparation if you think that cheese is bad but you refuse to learn how to do the fight with less preparation or be able to do it during 1st autumn if you'll learn how to fight the boss with minimal resources spent, that's a reward for getting better

[Gashzer]

Just now, grm9 said:

i don't, because it's inevitable that some people'll like something and some won't, otherwise i'm waiting for werepig and mutated bosses reworks because imo they suck and are the most boring bosses aside from minibosses like fruit fly

Because they cant be cheesed/exploited/bugged? Hahaha i think you just want any excuse to cheat tbh

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

then they can remove moon rock duping after they do that if everyone'll like the new way more, which won't happen because there'll still be people that'll prefer to do it that way so there's no reason to remove it

can do something else at least, better to spend a few mins being afk and doing something else instead of doing a fight that you can't fail

i don't even play during late game, most of my worlds end before summer because all interesting stuff is done by then

that's the point, you can either spend a lot of time getting preparation if you think that cheese is bad but you refuse to learn how to do the fight with less preparation or be able to do it during 1st autumn if you'll learn how to fight the boss with minimal resources spent, that's a reward for getting better

Sounds to me that you dont enjoy DST anymore hence your need to cheese everything, maybe its time for you to move on from this game 

[grm9]

On 4/6/2024 at 2:33 PM, Gashzer said:

Because they cant be cheesed/exploited/bugged?

no, because they aren't remotely as interesting and complex as FW, otherwise, since you probably know how to kill werepig, do FW no nightmare amulet/teleportation/AoE/dmg buffs except wolfgang by doing as many attempts as you did to kill werepig for the 1st time or less 

On 4/6/2024 at 2:33 PM, Gashzer said:

Sounds to me that you dont enjoy DST anymore hence your need to cheese everything, maybe its time for you to move on from this game

how is that even related to what i said? i still like toadstool, BQ, dfly and FW, but imo new bosses suck

Edited May 2, 2024 by grm9

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no, because they aren't remotely as interesting and complex as FW, otherwise, since you probably know how to kill werepig, do FW no nightmare amulet/teleportation/AoE/dmg buffs except wolfgang by doing as many attempts as you did to kill werepig for the 1st time or less 

The recent boss design are 10000% times better than all the original bosses. They have nice weaknesses, cool attack animations and have more dramatic flair to them.

Doing fw no tools isnt fun tho. Speedrunners or challenge run players are the worst group of people for klei to be taking ideas from.

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

 i still like toadstool, BQ, dfly and FW, but imo new bosses suck

And toadstool the damage sponge with boring mechanics that many players use pathfinding bugs to cheese, bee queen is a nice boss but shes a missed opportunity for a follower vs follower boss fight i.e her grumble bees should never target the player if we have followers and our followers should only target the grumble bees. So a tweak to bee queen would be good.

And Dfly whom 99% of players use the easiest pathfinding bug to skip half of her mechanics. Definitely needs reworked.

Yeahhh you just love cheesy bosses eh? Haha

15 minutes ago, grm9 said:

how is that even related to what i said? 

You are unable to enjoy DST without exploits. Clearly you are bored with DST.

[grm9]

On 4/6/2024 at 2:53 PM, Gashzer said:

The recent boss design are 10000% times better than all the original bosses. They have nice weaknesses, cool attack animations and have more dramatic flair to them

they suck because they're extremely easy to kill and can only be killed in 1 way, so even if you would've wanted to kill them in some harder and even possibly less efficient way, you couldn't have because the most you can do is use fists to make a really boring fight even longer

On 4/6/2024 at 2:53 PM, Gashzer said:

Doing fw no tools isnt fun tho

why am i having fun then?

On 4/6/2024 at 2:53 PM, Gashzer said:

Speedrunners or challenge run players are the worst group of people for klei to be taking ideas from

i don't speedrun and that isn't a challenge run because i'm not restricting myself only to restrict myself, doing FW with minimal gear is beneficial to get shadow rifts early, that's rushing, not speedrunning, it's also fun so why not

On 4/6/2024 at 2:53 PM, Gashzer said:

And toadstool the damage sponge with boring mechanics that many players use pathfinding bugs to cheese

most of them never tried to fight it with ham bat and without weather pains/work multipliers and complain about it being a resource sink also, i'd be fine with toad's hp getting reduced but the boss itself is fine

On 4/6/2024 at 2:53 PM, Gashzer said:

bee queen is a nice boss but shes a missed opportunity for a follower vs follower boss fight i.e her grumble bees should never target the player if we have followers and our followers should only target the grumble bees

that seems entirely pointless considering you can already kill her using spiders, merms, bunnymen etc.

On 4/6/2024 at 2:53 PM, Gashzer said:

So a tweak to bee queen would be good

no need, fighting her by using minions isn't even fun and figuring out that that's possible doesn't require much time either

On 4/6/2024 at 2:53 PM, Gashzer said:

And Dfly whom 99% of players use the easiest pathfinding bug to skip half of her mechanics

i don't care about what people use to fight a boss, most people still think that pierogi, crock pots, meatballs, using glommer for sanity etc. are good, they're irrelevant to how bosses should be designed because they simply refuse to fight bosses the fun way and figure things out on their own because they just decided to copy a strat from the 1st video they found

On 4/6/2024 at 2:53 PM, Gashzer said:

Definitely needs reworked

no, dfly and BQ have probably the most strats for killing them among all bosses, but some people seem to not want to figure even 1 of them out and instead look for a guide that tells them to use walls and wait for half a minute for dfly to finish summoning lavaes and probably do that again instead of enraging after all of them die even though that's extremely inefficient and boring

On 4/6/2024 at 2:53 PM, Gashzer said:

cheesy bosses

what does that even mean? if that means bosses that have cheeses available for them, then that's entirely unrelated to why i like them

On 4/6/2024 at 2:53 PM, Gashzer said:

You are unable to enjoy DST without exploits. Clearly you are bored with DST

no, skipping a few things doesn't mean that i don't like the entire game and should stop playing it and i didn't even use lureplants cheese when it was working

Edited May 2, 2024 by grm9