Something about Griefers

[Kubicska]

So up until now griefing didn’t seem like a “bit deal” to me sice you could always just rollback and ban the griefer and even though 6 days of rollback hasn’t been able to restore the ashes of my base (stone fruit is extinct now thanks) which usually should be more than enough,  
we have the “side of the problem”  which I have hope for to be solved without the use of mods where people just randomly loot your chests or pick things up from the ground, there’s really nothing you can do to make them drop them even if you are the server host. 
It’s like a ticking time bomb that’s ready to explode at any moment taking all your valuables with it, and for some strange reason kicking or banning the player doesn’t solve the issue either since all your items also make their exit with the player which just make no sense.  
If you are going to kick or ban a player then of course you want them to drop their stuff and turning “drop all items on disconnect” is just terrible to have enabled because in the end you’re just screwing yourself and your friends over the most out of anyone with it. 
It seems like a relatively simple addition that would save a bunch of stress from people who are unable to use mods and console players would be especially grateful for it.

 

Also me when I want a stubborn player to drop their stuff because they won’t do it otherwise (works 20% of the time):

 

[Cheggf]

4 hours ago, Kubicska said:

It’s like a ticking time bomb that’s ready to explode at any moment taking all your valuables with it, and for some strange reason kicking or banning the player doesn’t solve the issue either since all your items also make their exit with the player which just make no sense.  
If you are going to kick or ban a player then of course you want them to drop their stuff and turning “drop all items on disconnect” is just terrible to have enabled because in the end you’re just screwing yourself and your friends over the most out of anyone with it. 

I do not want to be kicked because I earned something on my own independently from everyone else but they want it, or they feel like someone stole something so they start kicking everyone randomly until they find the item. If you want people to drop their items when they're kicked the functionality is already in the game with dropping items on disconnect, you're just going to have to get used to holding down the spacebar for a little bit when you reconnect. 

[DegenerateFurry]

There's already a config option in world settings that makes players drop items upon disconnecting. What are you even asking them to add beyond that? 

[goatt]

I think dst should have a public-public mode.

In public-public mode, players can have a black-hole backpack, which can carry 100 items.

With one restriction: the items can only be put into the blackhole if you were its original owner. (Maybe food should not be included either)

Original owner means you killed the monster that dropped the item. If you make a rope, the rope made of grass picked by you, not someone else. Owner transfer from original material to new craft. If the crafting material is from multiple owners, the final craft is hybrid and can be put in no one's black hole.

 

Of course blackhole is not accessible on-demand. It's just like a private storage at certain coordinate, just like a base location. You can throw things into backpack anywhere anytime, and you can peek into it, but retrieval has location restriction. (Maybe can only be opened at portal? or telelocator focus?)

 

I think this is a harmless framework to protect private belongings.

[Kubicska]

15 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

There's already a config option in world settings that makes players drop items upon disconnecting. What are you even asking them to add beyond that? 

I thought about about adding a way to somehow “extract” items from people’s inventory if they randomly start picking up all your stuff and refuse to collaborate with the host as sort of a last resort without needing to “roll back the most and hope it turns out fine” without enabling that option because I’ve tried to live with it, I really did but there are often “emergency situations” where you may have to disconnect and reconnect with no room for error and dropping all your stuff and armor is basically a death sentence.

So there I was weighing my options if I should set that setting back to default, and I’ve eventually decided revert it back to default since it basically caused more harm an annoyance that it saved me and my friends in the end.

The result why I thought I’d ask about this “simple fix” of sorts because it seemed actually passable (on a surface level) but as the comment mentioned above people might start actively abusing this feature (which I didn’t think of) because I originally thought about this as some sort of “quality of life” feature that PC players can already achieve through mods, but console players are kinda left on their own to just deal with it.

Only having this option tied to banning on player hosted servers seem kinda fair in my eyes, because firstly you shouldn’t just be joining random severs and randomly get Op gear with a greedy host that has no respect for others in the first place if you know that they cannot be trusted and will ban you the second they feel like it (this being tied to banning only would mean that people can’t just blindly go in a rampage of taking everyone’s stuff because you won’t be able to play with them that way, so it’s basically a one way ticket/last resort things unless you are crazy or something) and this “feature” should be automatically disabled/unavalible Klei Hosted Servers/Dedicated Servers (or whatever you want to call them to) to keep players from banding together against one person to ban them to get their stuff or whatever malicious things they want to do with them.

Here’s summary of you got confused (sorry for that): Drop everything on disconnect setting is kinda terrible to have enabled just to be able to kick players with their stuff dropping so instead why not make banning drop the players stuff too OR (better yet) let us select “favorite sever members” whose items do not get dropped when disconnecting with the drop everything settings enabled. 

But in the end this entire idea might a little blunt, but hey it’s something to start of or talk about and you DID comment on this topic after all so you must be interested by it at least the slightest bit. (Don’t even think about denying)

[BalkanCockroach]

14 hours ago, goatt said:

I think dst should have a public-public mode.

In public-public mode, players can have a black-hole backpack, which can carry 100 items.

With one restriction: the items can only be put into the blackhole if you were its original owner. (Maybe food should not be included either)

Original owner means you killed the monster that dropped the item. If you make a rope, the rope made of grass picked by you, not someone else. Owner transfer from original material to new craft. If the crafting material is from multiple owners, the final craft is hybrid and can be put in no one's black hole.

 

Of course blackhole is not accessible on-demand. It's just like a private storage at certain coordinate, just like a base location. You can throw things into backpack anywhere anytime, and you can peek into it, but retrieval has location restriction. (Maybe can only be opened at portal? or telelocator focus?)

 

I think this is a harmless framework to protect private belongings.

Wouldn't work. DST multiplayer and especially Pubs are structured around...

Spoiler

Communism

 

[chirsg]

15 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

There's already a config option in world settings that makes players drop items upon disconnecting. What are you even asking them to add beyond that? 

That solution is severely flawed if you have regulars. For that to work, you must have a whitelist for who it applies to and who it doesn't. 

The sentiment is nice, but it's totally a net negative. 

7 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Wouldn't work. DST multiplayer and especially Pubs are structured around...

  Hide contents

Communism

 

I can't argue that the game can tend to be rather commie. I advocate whole heartedly that the game become cappy. 

I run my world like a totalitarian state. We could use a bit of good old fashioned free market to alleviate that. 

[Cheggf]

14 hours ago, goatt said:

I think dst should have a public-public mode.

In public-public mode, players can have a black-hole backpack, which can carry 100 items.

With one restriction: the items can only be put into the blackhole if you were its original owner. (Maybe food should not be included either)

Original owner means you killed the monster that dropped the item. If you make a rope, the rope made of grass picked by you, not someone else. Owner transfer from original material to new craft. If the crafting material is from multiple owners, the final craft is hybrid and can be put in no one's black hole.

 

Of course blackhole is not accessible on-demand. It's just like a private storage at certain coordinate, just like a base location. You can throw things into backpack anywhere anytime, and you can peek into it, but retrieval has location restriction. (Maybe can only be opened at portal? or telelocator focus?)

 

I think this is a harmless framework to protect private belongings.

So the ruins are completely impossible to ever get anything from because every server is going to have some dude rush them, throw literally every single thing in them into his bottomless 100 slot backpack, then get bored and disconnect.

[BalkanCockroach]

8 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I can't argue that the game can tend to be rather commie.

 Explains the big russian and chinese playerbase lmao.

Is this joke allowed in the forums?

9 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I advocate whole heartedly that the game become cappy. 

We need hamlet for that sir.

[ShadowDuelist]

2 hours ago, Kubicska said:

I thought about about adding a way to somehow “extract” items from people’s inventory if they randomly start picking up all your stuff and refuse to collaborate with the host as sort of a last resort without needing to “roll back the most and hope it turns out fine” without enabling that option because I’ve tried to live with it, I really did but there are often “emergency situations” where you may have to disconnect and reconnect with no room for error and dropping all your stuff and armor is basically a death sentence.

The solution to all these things is possible by having admins on a dedicated server and the admin tooltips mod on every admin’s game, so you can enforce your item administration rules as you wish. This can be done as we speak and requires 0 interference of the devs.

You can also do that in your own hosted world.

For public admin-less servers like klei publics this would certainly not work.

[goatt]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

So the ruins are completely impossible to ever get anything from because every server is going to have some dude rush them, throw literally every single thing in them into his bottomless 100 slot backpack, then get bored and disconnect.

That’s a very good question, because similar things have happened a lot.

But I think my solution can be improved to become good enough.

Take the ruin problem for example, ruin rushers exist. Most of the time thulecite taken are stored somewhere in the server in real games, and are difficult to find. You’ll need to spend tons of hours search both surface and cave, if unlucky, just to find where the harvested thulecite are, which is unfun and rarely anyone wants to do that. That’s not too much better than stored in a black hole. But, if people feel blackhole is too unfair to ruin rushers, we can simply make black hole reject thulecite entirely. Or alternatively, black hole can only accept one stack of thulecites max. Or alternatively, black hole refuses thulecites but takes thulecite gears and have limits on how many gears of all kinds it can store, like maybe 10 max for any gears.

In other words, the problem you mentioned is legit, but doesn’t seem to show my suggestion would ruin the fairness, but is a scenario that it can improve upon.  

 

3 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Communism

Communism? Like

- “where is base?”

- “Over here, at the portal, you are welcome to join us (our communist party).”

Never happened to me before. People don’t seem to operate around Communism. So my suggestion is just give people what they want, i.e. private properties.

[BalkanCockroach]

2 hours ago, goatt said:

 

Communism? Like

- “where is base?”

- “Over here, at the portal, you are welcome to join us (our communist party).”

Never happened to me before. People don’t seem to operate around Communism. So my suggestion is just give people what they want, i.e. private properties.

I mean chests are open for public, no one has private property, everyone cooperates, no currency or trade in the game between players. 

Looks like communism to me.

[Kubicska]

 

4 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

The solution to all these things is possible by having admins on a dedicated server and the admin tooltips mod on every admin’s game, so you can enforce your item administration rules as you wish. This can be done as we speak and requires 0 interference of the devs.

You can also do that in your own hosted world.

For public admin-less servers like klei publics this would certainly not work.

I mentioned that we need a mod-less way to have these features, this is basically the point of the entire thread because console players exist who have no access to mods whatsoever, but thanks for mentioning that for other PC players I guess 

On 1/7/2024 at 12:38 PM, Kubicska said:

I have hope for to be solved without the use of mods

 

[goatt]

3 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

I mean chests are open for public, no one has private property, everyone cooperates, no currency or trade in the game between players. 

True. I meant that the game gives some kind of communism, but players want something else.

That's why the courtesy is

1. refill what you took from the chest

2. don't take what's not yours (in a more general sense)

3. strangers are not welcome

4. strangers who found your base is reluctantly accepted.

Plus, cooperating is a major part of Capitalism, for example, the supply chain.

Hence, I posted my suggestion about the black hole backpack to protect players from Communism enforced by the game.

 

In other words, I agree with you. And you should like my suggestion.

 

[BalkanCockroach]

6 minutes ago, goatt said:

True. I meant that the game gives some kind of communism, but players want something else.

That's why the courtesy is

1. refill what you took from the chest

2. don't take what's not yours (in a more general sense)

3. strangers are not welcome

4. strangers who found your base is reluctantly accepted.

Plus, cooperating is a major part of Capitalism, for example, the supply chain.

Hence, I posted my suggestion about the black hole backpack to protect players from Communism enforced by the game.

 

In other words, I agree with you. And you should like my suggestion.

 

Okay

[shaurun]

I'm reading this and I am very sorry to say that, but that's isnane.

In survival game where everything is meant to be lost one day because of some hazard, you think you valuables should be somehow different and untouched. You feel pity for a rope used by someone else, really? When I play I try to give valuable items like eyebrella to newbies because I can survive withiout it, while they probably can't. If I realy want something to be in mine and only mine posession, I would try to find a secure place for it which means I would treat other people not as griefers (intended or not), but as extra challenges/ingame hazards I need to take care of. People learn how to overcome summer heat, so why they can't find a way to overcome their item disappearence?

 

You make you choice to play on public server. This actually mean that you would deal with people. People who have their own needs and intentions. And this is fun! If you have something that you feel pity for, like loosing dreadstone helmet for example, that only means you have problems to retrieve it, and that you need to learn more and have more expierence in order for this particular item to be not a problem to retrieve for you. this is such a pity people complain for stupid ropes/meat/dark swords. Improwise! You prepared an extra armor for the boss but someone took it in a middle of a fight? Deal with it. Coop is not indented to make game ONLY easier,. It make game deeper. And at some points, more challenging.

[Kubicska]

10 hours ago, shaurun said:

I'm reading this and I am very sorry to say that, but that's isnane.

In survival game where everything is meant to be lost one day because of some hazard, you think you valuables should be somehow different and untouched. You feel pity for a rope used by someone else, really? When I play I try to give valuable items like eyebrella to newbies because I can survive withiout it, while they probably can't. If I realy want something to be in mine and only mine posession, I would try to find a secure place for it which means I would treat other people not as griefers (intended or not), but as extra challenges/ingame hazards I need to take care of. People learn how to overcome summer heat, so why they can't find a way to overcome their item disappearence?

 

You make you choice to play on public server. This actually mean that you would deal with people. People who have their own needs and intentions. And this is fun! If you have something that you feel pity for, like loosing dreadstone helmet for example, that only means you have problems to retrieve it, and that you need to learn more and have more expierence in order for this particular item to be not a problem to retrieve for you. this is such a pity people complain for stupid ropes/meat/dark swords. Improwise! You prepared an extra armor for the boss but someone took it in a middle of a fight? Deal with it. Coop is not indented to make game ONLY easier,. It make game deeper. And at some points, more challenging.

While I have probably worded “my problem” a little poorly, I not at all referred to people taking my grass, eye masks, glasscutters or whatever you want to list here. Up until this point I treated everyone equally on my server.

They pushed all the kelp in an untreatable corner? No worries, I’ll just fix it later without rolling back.  
They join and the first thing they ask is if we could defeat Celestial Champion so they unlock their lunar affinities? I’m on it.  
I even cook, provide multiple means of healing, the best armor that I could offer to them and put all my things aside for them.  
Oh, they don’t know what something is for? No worries I’ll just spend minutes explaining it as best as I can to them.  
And I’m no megabaser or pro either. One time someone helped me defeat a few bosses, and then they just disconnected with all the jelly beans, brightshade equipment and an enlightened crown? Oh well I guess they kinda earned it for themselves even if I was the one who provided everything for the fight AGAIN and they weren’t any better at fighting than me or contributed to the team other than helping me get a beequeen crown by holding the attack button. Never saw them again.

The people who I really meant that could use an “inventory clearing” of sort are the ones who join, head straight for the base, don’t ask anything, load up themselves with brightshade gear and proceed to take all the mandrakes, starcaller’s staffs, Deerclops eyeballs, the single Ancient Guardian horn and literally the most valuable things from the base that are well sorted in chests that are spread across the base so it cannot be an accident, all without me even noticing that they even joined in the first place and then they just proceed to disconnect and never look back, but the single thing that saved me from them taking all the stuff with them was that they forgot to get grass and twigs to craft a torch at night. And the last part happened right in front of me. I also kindly asked them multiple times to drop their stuff because I could see that they were wearing my brightshade armor with a thulecite club for some reason as I took a look at their profile because they didn’t look familiar but apparently had already more than 6 days into the world so not even rolling back could have saved me in that scenario. So this is THE REASON why I asked to make it so that banning a person doesn’t basically ban all the stuff out of existence with them. 

Thanks for listening I guess, and I’m saying this to the people who want to even further escalate the situation, PLEASE save from the headache of more negative comments telling me that I’m so wrong about this and “reminding me” that drop all items on disconnect exists because WOW I KNOW ALREADY AND ITS TERRIBLE THANKS FOR MENTIONING IT AGAIN BECAUSE YOU COULDN’T READ WHAT THE OTHER COMMENTS AND MY MAIN TOPIC OR WHATEVER SAID

[shaurun]

2 hours ago, Kubicska said:

While I have probably worded “my problem” a little poorly, I not at all referred to people taking my grass, eye masks, glasscutters or whatever you want to list here. Up until this point I treated everyone equally on my server.

They pushed all the kelp in an untreatable corner? No worries, I’ll just fix it later without rolling back.  
They join and the first thing they ask is if we could defeat Celestial Champion so they unlock their lunar affinities? I’m on it.  
I even cook, provide multiple means of healing, the best armor that I could offer to them and put all my things aside for them.  
Oh, they don’t know what something is for? No worries I’ll just spend minutes explaining it as best as I can to them.  
And I’m no megabaser or pro either. One time someone helped me defeat a few bosses, and then they just disconnected with all the jelly beans, brightshade equipment and an enlightened crown? Oh well I guess they kinda earned it for themselves even if I was the one who provided everything for the fight AGAIN and they weren’t any better at fighting than me or contributed to the team other than helping me get a beequeen crown by holding the attack button. Never saw them again.

The people who I really meant that could use an “inventory clearing” of sort are the ones who join, head straight for the base, don’t ask anything, load up themselves with brightshade gear and proceed to take all the mandrakes, starcaller’s staffs, Deerclops eyeballs, the single Ancient Guardian horn and literally the most valuable things from the base that are well sorted in chests that are spread across the base so it cannot be an accident, all without me even noticing that they even joined in the first place and then they just proceed to disconnect and never look back, but the single thing that saved me from them taking all the stuff with them was that they forgot to get grass and twigs to craft a torch at night. And the last part happened right in front of me. I also kindly asked them multiple times to drop their stuff because I could see that they were wearing my brightshade armor with a thulecite club for some reason as I took a look at their profile because they didn’t look familiar but apparently had already more than 6 days into the world so not even rolling back could have saved me in that scenario. So this is THE REASON why I asked to make it so that banning a person doesn’t basically ban all the stuff out of existence with them. 

Thanks for listening I guess, and I’m saying this to the people who want to even further escalate the situation, PLEASE save from the headache of more negative comments telling me that I’m so wrong about this and “reminding me” that drop all items on disconnect exists because WOW I KNOW ALREADY AND ITS TERRIBLE THANKS FOR MENTIONING IT AGAIN BECAUSE YOU COULDN’T READ WHAT THE OTHER COMMENTS AND MY MAIN TOPIC OR WHATEVER SAID

I feel bad dor my words, I apologize. Well, I've actually reacted mostly to the person who suggested some sort of shared inventory since there were ideas like "only rope crafted from grass picked by you should be... blablabla" which honestly sounded so bad that I wasn't able to hold myself.

I understand you at some point. The situation you described sounds pretty griefy. However I consider we should learn to handle such situations indefenetely, I think these behave badly.

[Popian]

It would make sense to have it tied to admin ban, as if the ban gets lifted the items can be given back, and if the host is abusing it the player won't want to come back.

On admin kick is a bit iffy, it may warrant another "drop kick" option in addition to the regular one but if someone were intent on disconnecting with important items they would just come back, pick as many as they can and disconnect before getting banned.

[Kubicska]

18 hours ago, shaurun said:

I feel bad dor my words, I apologize. Well, I've actually reacted mostly to the person who suggested some sort of shared inventory since there were ideas like "only rope crafted from grass picked by you should be... blablabla" which honestly sounded so bad that I wasn't able to hold myself.

I understand you at some point. The situation you described sounds pretty griefy. However I consider we should learn to handle such situations indefenetely, I think these behave badly.

Thanks for trying your best at seeing it from my side of things too, it means a lot to me truly. And yes, this “last resort ban” idea isn’t perfect by any means and isn’t enough to stop your base from getting griefed, but could be very useful in some situations.  
Oh and sorry that I misunderstood the message you sent to as a reply to mine, you didn’t quote anyone after all so I just assumed you were talking about the main message 

Funnily enough, my “a random person is talking literally my most valuable stuff” situation happened VERY recently just before I started moving the remains of my burned down base to the new location so I was kind of amped up when I saw them join out of the blue and start taking everything I just sorted out literally two seconds ago and just shrug it off as “im new” and “it was on the ground” (I usually keep equipment on the ground and everything else in chests) after they have been “disposed of” thanks to shadow creatures and darkness and I just went: “Even if you are new or not you still took my stuff without asking and didn’t even care to listen after I asked you about it multiple times” followed by a “don’t come back” (well I can’t be so kind to everyone).  
Anyways I’m basing on the Moonquay island now to keep it secret from griefers and it’s also pretty fun so far to have a base built on docks only with some farmland in the middle (the only downside is that can’t have Lazy Deserters and the Celestial Orb there) and I’ve never been so excited about getting a bunch of Above-Average Knobbly Trees since I can now benefit from their maximum potential without having to row individually to each of the mossy vines to harvest the figs. And I can just tp to the island as Wanda or Sail there with a boat with like 4 sails or even build a boat bridge if I wouldn’t be spending all my boards on rebuilding chests and crafting docks.  
Would totally recommend, but only of the Moonquay island isn’t too far from the shore or literally everything, otherwise Waterlogged base seems pretty dope too, just get lucky with world generation and be aware of striders

[Jakepeng99]

IMO they need to add an accessable way to read offline player inventories, and to take it off them.

[Kubicska]

16 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

IMO they need to add an accessable way to read offline player inventories, and to take it off them.

Exactly!

Just think about it… it probably wouldn’t hurt your gameplay in any way while providing us with a way to get stuff back that we would otherwise never see again. 
It could work similarly to how it does in Stardew Valley, being only available if that person isn’t on the sever at the moment, and maybe we would have to give an offering to the Celestial Portal and then it would drop their stuff on the ground.

It needing an offering to get the stuff back would mostly be a minor expense that would prevent players from spamming it for idk… random players’ grass and twigs? It would be for the same reason why character switching needs an offering too, even if you have all the moon rocks and purple gems you’ll ever need.

I mean I’d really like to have a way to get my lost enlightened crowns back not gonna lie and not be ripped from my starcaller’s staffs and mandrakes

More uses for the Celestial Portal would be also neat, it could be useful for people who don’t use it for character switching but still want to host public servers without worrying about their items becoming inaccessible ever again 

[Jakepeng99]

4 minutes ago, Kubicska said:

Exactly!

Just think about it… it probably wouldn’t hurt your gameplay in any way while providing us with a way to get stuff back that we would otherwise never see again. 
It could work similarly to how it does in Stardew Valley, being only available if that person isn’t on the sever at the moment, and maybe we would have to give an offering to the Celestial Portal and then it would drop their stuff on the ground.

It needing an offering to get the stuff back would mostly be a minor expense that would prevent players from spamming it for idk… random players’ grass and twigs? It would be for the same reason why character switching needs an offering too, even if you have all the moon rocks and purple gems you’ll ever need.

I mean I’d really like to have a way to get my lost enlightened crowns back not gonna lie and not be ripped from my starcaller’s staffs and mandrakes

It is confirmed to be possible too. The bot on meow together server is able to do it, so it is a good thing for klei to implement. (I wonder if anyone can make a mod for it?)

[Kubicska]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

(I wonder if anyone can make a mod for it?)

(I kinda wish some quality of life mods were in the base game for console players to enjoy too, well console edition Minecraft does have a few custom maps with added features that are the closest thing to mods on console so it may be possible to have something similar in DST)