Hindsight- The Sawhorse obtaining method has failed

[Jakepeng99]

4 minutes ago, Lovens said:

turf crafting station, ruins turfs and relic blueprints etc).

Turf crafting station is an add on, and is not some primitive machine. You can still dig all turfs and get what you need, there are no exclusive turfs to it. It is a quality of life improvement, and is not essential for doing anything with turfs.

Ruins turf, relic blueprints, and the other examples down the line are good like that. The difference is they are not locking off many other unrelated decorative stuff. They are their own small individual things. Only change i would like is making the other relics have shadow creatures.

9 minutes ago, Lovens said:

Even with potter's wheel you have only two basic statues unlocked and nobody's complaining that you need to collect figure sketches and fight bosses just to decor your base with them, or get to specific locations like lunar to get its unique  themed statues.

Nobody is complaining because the statues are trophys for beating a boss, finding an area, an event, or whatever. Statues are perfectly fine. You may think the sawhorse is similar, but it is not. It does not resemble your journey, and is obtained by going to two random places. Statues are straight forward.

18 minutes ago, Lovens said:

There are some decoration items available to craft via alchemy engine but it doesn't mean that everything decorative should be accessible via it. 

I am personally suggesting for it to be sold for bottles at pearl. I already agreed with you and everyone else on this initially.

22 minutes ago, Lovens said:

disagree with you calling it an exploit. Both ruins chair and statues are solid structures crafted out of stone or marble which are durable materials and it makes sense they block mobs.

Exploit or not, it is balanced and is not a reason to make it harder to obtain or more hidden.

 

[Uedo]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

With the same mindset, something like making the potters wheel only obtained by giving a figure sketch to the moon quay queen would be logical to balance the statue exploit.

It is not a good counterpoint. If Klei were to balance decorational items around exploits, that would be bad and it is self explanatory. They should target the exploit if it was a problem (in this case, not). This point feels like a desperate reason to defend the sawhorse obtaining method

And to add to this exploit, it is not op in the first place since it just enchances the qol of another bigger exploit so it is rather irrelevant to this. It has the same issue with statues where mobs pass through it off screen, so it does not replace gates either.

Gonna hard disagree. 

I still think it's a good counterpoint.

9 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It does not resemble your journey, and is obtained by going to two random places. 

Going to places is not a journey?

[prettynuggets]

12 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I am personally suggesting for it to be sold for bottles at pearl.

i rather just zoomin thro monkeys and munch some mushroom smack the chillin shadow than swimming around waiting for RNG bottles to spawn. 

[arubaro]

13 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Turf crafting station is an add on

Like crafting chairs...

[CaptainChaotica]

If you were on the forums when this was first introduced, you know my stance on this. Very much so. (Basically, it's "the first post, only LOUDER AND ANGRIER.") Having to go on an adventure to multiple places to _learn how to make a freakin' chair_ is comparable to doing a dramatic Indiana Jones style adventure...to make it down the street to the Ikea. It's just so....wtf.

I believe that this method to get PURELY. DECORATIVE. NON-FUNCTIONAL. NOT GAME-ADVANTAGING AT ALL, furniture, is so non-sequitur, that I eventually gave up trying to get it changed to something more reasonable, the way the original Clean Sweeper recipe was (I mean hey, that kind of thing DID actually happen once, in this game), and just flat out cheated.

...but screw console players, amirite? They can't use cheats OR mods!

I have this now, but I don't feel great about how I got it.

...Notorious

[Mike23Ua]

18 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Like crafting chairs...

Well yeah.. but in most games there are things you can do early into gameplay, and then there are things you can only do till later in Gameplay. And I do not feel like some purely decorative chairs should be locked behind this deep of gameplay.

Let me explain: Ark Survival Evolved, 7 Days to Die, Conan Exiles, Atlas, Palworlds- All of them share one thing in common: Very deep, highly complex gameplay, building some basic furniture to start your base isn’t one of them.

In most games NOT named DST, furniture is one of the first things you’ll craft.

Even DS Hamlet had easier access to decorative furnitures.. so there’s that.

Klei just taxed it behind where it’s at now, to make players feel like it gives them something to do… 

And if you can prove me wrong, I’d love to hear your opinion.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Klei just taxed it behind where it’s at now, to make players feel like it gives them something to do… 

Just like crafting turf, or the new hat antlion hat...  It wasn't added as an early game feature.  Mid game at earliest.

But lets be real - aside from knowing how to do it - doing it is not actually difficult.  You go to the ruins and smack a shadow that doesn't even fight back.  You have to be insane to do this, but like... that is natural in ruins lol.  You don't even have to go in deep.  Then you go to pearl's island, build that chair, and you get the blueprint.  Done and done.  Find your first jar, find pearl's island.  This is not a lengthy quest, and while you can't do it easily first autumn - any player who has time to sit around crafting furniture can probably do it.

edit - just to tack on to this - the OP is pretty blatantly wrong.  The OP claims the reason he doesn't see megabase building players using it is because... the method is too difficult?  x to doubt.

Most megabasers are probably clearing AFW and CC.  If THESE people aren't using the sawhorse it has nothing to do with how you acquire it and everything to do with the structures it builds - and what structures they want to build.  IF they wanted to build the structures the sawhorse gave them, they would do it.

If anything, not seeing the sawhorse structures in a megabase just means the structures aren't universally attractive.  Although I have seen the structures used by the megabasing streamers I've watched, and they acquire it in doing pearl's tasks for her pearl b/c its easier than catching her while its raining / snowing, fishing up big fish, or waiting for summer.

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

Like crafting chairs...

You can still use every turf in the game that is available from the turf crafter by using a pitchfork.

 

The only way to get this furniture set is from the sawhorse. That is the difference. Infact, often the best way to get turfs is by stealing them from the ground in most cases.

4 hours ago, prettynuggets said:

i rather just zoomin thro monkeys and munch some mushroom smack the chillin shadow than swimming around waiting for RNG bottles to spawn. 

You normally amass bottles by passively exploring the ocean. They are not random either. If it costed something like 2-4 bottles, it would be no chore.

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

. the method is too difficult?  x to doubt.

No i never. I said that it is on paper really easy. I was claiming it was too obscure and out of the way. I feel like most is skimming over multiple things i have said since this has happened a few times.

2 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

believe that this method to get PURELY. DECORATIVE. NON-FUNCTIONAL. NOT GAME-ADVANTAGING AT ALL,

The flower pot is useful for light and sainity, but i feel like it is a reason to change the sawhorse.

16 hours ago, Uedo said:

Going to places is not a journey?

Trophys are a symbol of what you accomplished. Sawhorse is not a trophy.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I was claiming it was out of the way

you'll get it automatically if you're doing CC questline

[Yuuko]

5 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

No i never. I said that it is on paper really easy. I was claiming it was too obscure and out of the way. I feel like most is skimming over multiple things i have said since this has happened a few times.

Let me rephrase what I said to be absolutely explicit 

the OP is pretty blatantly wrong.  The OP claims the reason he doesn't see megabase building players using it is because... the method is too obscure?  x to doubt.

Most megabasers are probably clearing AFW and CC.  If THESE people aren't using the sawhorse it has nothing to do with how you acquire it and everything to do with the structures it builds - and what structures they want to build.  IF they wanted to build the structures the sawhorse gave them, they would do it.

If anything, not seeing the sawhorse structures in a megabase just means the structures aren't universally attractive.  Although I have seen the structures used by the megabasing streamers I've watched, and they acquire it in doing pearl's tasks for her pearl b/c its easier than catching her while its raining / snowing, fishing up big fish, or waiting for summer.

[Jakepeng99]

16 hours ago, Uedo said:

Gonna hard disagree. 

I still think it's a good counterpoint.

I feel like you should expand your point of view so i get what you mean

1 minute ago, Yuuko said:

Let me rephrase what I said to be absolutely explicit 

the OP is pretty blatantly wrong.  The OP claims the reason he doesn't see megabase building players using it is because... the method is too obscure?  x to doubt.

Most megabasers are probably clearing AFW and CC.  If THESE people aren't using the sawhorse it has nothing to do with how you acquire it and everything to do with the structures it builds - and what structures they want to build.  IF they wanted to build the structures the sawhorse gave them, they would do it.

If anything, not seeing the sawhorse structures in a megabase just means the structures aren't universally attractive.  Although I have seen the structures used by the megabasing streamers I've watched, and they acquire it in doing pearl's tasks for her pearl b/c its easier than catching her while its raining / snowing, fishing up big fish, or waiting for summer.

I have made it multiple times in these servers i were mentioning, and when i do so normally it gets use. Probably the people who are clearing the ruins have different motives.

[prettynuggets]

36 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Probably the people who are clearing the ruins have different motives.

heh what need for motive if u just found the sitting horror there harmless. smack it once and get the blueprint.

btw am i the only one who HATE the sound when u get near of sawhorse . i just prototype all and destroy it

[Uedo]

3 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Trophys are a symbol of what you accomplished. Sawhorse is not a trophy.

Why? What if I consider it a trophy of my first foray into the ruins? How is this able to happen under your conditions?

3 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I feel like you should expand your point of view so i get what you mean

That's not really useful in this context. 
I was disagreeing with something you stated - so you can take that to mean I don't believe what you said applies or is accurate.

When I said the other person raises a good counter-point, I was in agreement with what they had said, I'm not in a position to explain their reasonings but I agree with their conclusion - ask them, they made the point perfectly fine.

All in all; I disagree with what you said and I agree with what they said - I'm not sure what information I could really give you that'd be clearer, erm.... I didn't find your point compelling or you weren't able to alleviate my doubts, whereas i'm in general agreement with the chair point the other person raised. Again, if you want more expansion, you're free to explain why you're right again and see if that makes a difference (It didn't last time), or you can re-read the comment about the statues and chairs and see if that makes a difference? Maybe ask them to expand THEIR point. 

3 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Let me rephrase what I said to be absolutely explicit 

the OP is pretty blatantly wrong.  The OP claims the reason he doesn't see megabase building players using it is because... the method is too obscure?  x to doubt.

Most megabasers are probably clearing AFW and CC.  If THESE people aren't using the sawhorse it has nothing to do with how you acquire it and everything to do with the structures it builds - and what structures they want to build.  IF they wanted to build the structures the sawhorse gave them, they would do it.

If anything, not seeing the sawhorse structures in a megabase just means the structures aren't universally attractive.  Although I have seen the structures used by the megabasing streamers I've watched, and they acquire it in doing pearl's tasks for her pearl b/c its easier than catching her while its raining / snowing, fishing up big fish, or waiting for summer.

In my experience too; When i'm decorating the furniture is usually the sign that a project is complete, usually last on my radar - so by extension you may spend hundreds of days in my servers and never see me build one, it does not mean i'm not going to (I generally like to plan a few 'rest' areas that utilise the tables and chair (maybe a toilet - for shi and gigs)) it's just that it isn't time yet. I'm either returfing, setting structures and then probably setting walls down - eventually i'll break some walls (I hate the placement in this game) to place some furniture and then re-wall signalling the area is preeeeetty much done with.

Quick edit: Bit of a paragraph there: - Generally furniture gets placed when a zone isn't going to experience any more structure placements or decoration and it's a finishing touch, so despite the fact that I may not have a sawhorse for hundreds of days I'm still intending to use one, It would just be annoying to put furniture in an awkward place to smash it down again and reinstall it elsewhere - i'd rather just wait until I know exactly where I want it to stay for the foreseeable future

[arubaro]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

6 hours ago, arubaro said:

Like crafting chairs...

Well yeah.. but in most games there are things you can do early into gameplay, and then there are things you can only do till later in Gameplay

And getting a recipe from the ruins and later craft an oar and a boat to find a bottle isnt late game

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, Uedo said:

Why? What if I consider it a trophy of my first foray into the ruins? How is this able to happen under your conditions?

I don't know how to explain it, i messed up. The purpouse and identity of statues is to show you accomplished something and to be decorational. Sawhorse purpouse and identity is making the basic furniture of the game. Metaphorically the sawhorse can be a trophy and so can phlegm, the player can choose anything to be a trophy, though it was not what i was meaning. 

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

And getting a recipe from the ruins and later craft an oar and a boat to find a bottle isnt late game

The ruins used to be considered end game content to be fair, though rushing it has become common now and things have been added down the line to extent progression.

[Chaghatai]

It's just like how a lot of turf are locked behind later game activities - good cosmetics are one of the late game rewards

[Jakepeng99]

22 minutes ago, Chaghatai said:

It's just like how a lot of turf are locked behind later game activities - good cosmetics are one of the late game rewards

Those turfs are special, individual and themed. (Also it is only a few turfs)

This furniture is the basic standard furnature unrelated to how you obtain them.

 

If the standard furniture was better to obtain, but we could unlock new furniture with different activities, that would be cool. (Placing a chair on the pearl island could make her give you a blueprint for a special pearl-themed chair)

[Chaghatai]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Those turfs are special, individual and themed. (Also it is only a few turfs)

This furniture is the basic standard furnature unrelated to how you obtain them.

 

If the standard furniture was better to obtain, but we could unlock new furniture with different activities, that would be cool. (Placing a chair on the pearl island could make her give you a blueprint for a special pearl-themed chair)

I really liked that idea when it was brought up, that would make getting a chair out of the ruins worth it

[Uedo]

2 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I don't know how to explain it, i messed up. The purpouse and identity of statues is to show you accomplished something and to be decorational. Sawhorse purpouse and identity is making the basic furniture of the game. Metaphorically the sawhorse can be a trophy and so can phlegm, the player can choose anything to be a trophy, though it was not what i was meaning. 

I see what you're saying, but that's your generally feelings toward those things. I like statues as decorations, i'd rather have a kitcoon statue in my base than a FW one for example. I like the design of it for spires.

I think it's fine though, I agree that it being obscure to get is part of the charm of it. It's a tradition that most of the decorative items are oddly annoying to get hold of. It's like you're rewarded with the small comforts of the real world by going out of your way. It adds more depth to me.

[Swiyss]

12 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

If you were on the forums when this was first introduced, you know my stance on this. Very much so. (Basically, it's "the first post, only LOUDER AND ANGRIER.") Having to go on an adventure to multiple places to _learn how to make a freakin' chair_ is comparable to doing a dramatic Indiana Jones style adventure...to make it down the street to the Ikea. It's just so....wtf.

I believe that this method to get PURELY. DECORATIVE. NON-FUNCTIONAL. NOT GAME-ADVANTAGING AT ALL, furniture, is so non-sequitur, that I eventually gave up trying to get it changed to something more reasonable, the way the original Clean Sweeper recipe was (I mean hey, that kind of thing DID actually happen once, in this game), and just flat out cheated.

...but screw console players, amirite? They can't use cheats OR mods!

I have this now, but I don't feel great about how I got it.

...Notorious

I hate how they changed the Clean Sweeper and the Cookbook recipes, it was so much better before. 

[Mike23Ua]

7 hours ago, arubaro said:

And getting a recipe from the ruins and later craft an oar and a boat to find a bottle isnt late game

Maybe it isn’t “late game” but it is something that- Depending on how randomly generated your world is.. could take a colossally long time to find.

To put this into a better perspective for you: you’ll be able to build some actual game advantage type things before you get “Furnitures” I know in most my worlds- That I usually end up crafting a freaking Shadow Manipulator before I ever get a full furniture set.

Do you realize how deep into gameplay the shadow manipulator is intended to be? You gotta build a science, alchemy, Prestihatitator, and THEN you get the Shadow station..

Yet I’ve been able to do that (across various play sessions) before getting “Furnitures”

And I’ll tell you WHY too, because going into “Caves” means constant negative sanity drain, (unless your Wurt with a top hat, pet fish & Starsky) Caves require Resources: If not Torches, then at least Lanterns, caves are long stretches of nothingness with no food sources to be found anywhere around- So unless you’ve unlocked bundling wraps (or conveniently set up iceboxes and crockpots throughout the cave tunnels) Theres a pretty high chance you will “Starve” trying to locate the ruins.

Meanwhile Science, Alchemy, Presti & even Shadow Manipulator or relatively easy items to obtain, one only needs to catch rabbits, get a purple gem  (by killing a clockwork or by red and blue combined) go just a tiny bit insane, kill a few crawling horrors, chop down a totally normal tree or kill treeguard and bam your done-

Late game prototyping stations significantly more easily obtained than wooden chair.

[arubaro]

26 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe it isn’t “late game” but it is something that- Depending on how randomly generated your world is.. could take a colossally long time to find.

To put this into a better perspective for you: you’ll be able to build some actual game advantage type things before you get “Furnitures” I know in most my worlds- That I usually end up crafting a freaking Shadow Manipulator before I ever get a full furniture set.

Do you realize how deep into gameplay the shadow manipulator is intended to be? You gotta build a science, alchemy, Prestihatitator, and THEN you get the Shadow station..

Yet I’ve been able to do that (across various play sessions) before getting “Furnitures”

And I’ll tell you WHY too, because going into “Caves” means constant negative sanity drain, (unless your Wurt with a top hat, pet fish & Starsky) Caves require Resources: If not Torches, then at least Lanterns, caves are long stretches of nothingness with no food sources to be found anywhere around- So unless you’ve unlocked bundling wraps (or conveniently set up iceboxes and crockpots throughout the cave tunnels) Theres a pretty high chance you will “Starve” trying to locate the ruins.

Meanwhile Science, Alchemy, Presti & even Shadow Manipulator or relatively easy items to obtain, one only needs to catch rabbits, get a purple gem  (by killing a clockwork or by red and blue combined) go just a tiny bit insane, kill a few crawling horrors, chop down a totally normal tree or kill treeguard and bam your done-

Late game prototyping stations significantly more easily obtained than wooden chair.

Dont care because is good to have objetives futher away than spawn point

 Do you want to unlock certain thing like chairs or tables? Play the content, that is it

We dont need to have everything avaraible from the spawn point

Maybe with these stuff people that are so focused on only decorate will have an incentive to explore certain areas and interact with content they dont use or are scare to interact with.

Preciselly you are always complaining about wanting more exploration and complaining about megabasers influencing in the game in a way you dont like yet you are here complaing abour needing to explore the most dangerous biome and survival exigent to unlock decorations...embrace the journey instead of wasting time here complaining for the sake of it

[Uedo]

30 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Late game prototyping stations significantly more easily obtained than wooden chair.

As those stations are tied to getting better gear (which makes things like ruins easier, and then you can more likely survive to make psuedo-science station gear) it kinda demonstrates linear progression. As the furniture is optional and won't really help progression I think it makes sense for it to be obscure and annoying, otherwise it wouldn't really feel like a treat if you just stumble upon it - it would feel like part of that linear progression. You know?

[Swiyss]

10 minutes ago, arubaro said:

We dont need to have everything avaraible from the spawn point

Someone give this guy a medal. This whole post is not needed imo. Getting the sawhorse is fine as it is. If we get another clean sweeper or cookbook example I'll be so sad. 

I guess the clean sweeper should actually be easier cause of skins value.

[Mike23Ua]

21 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Someone give this guy a medal. This whole post is not needed imo. Getting the sawhorse is fine as it is. If we get another clean sweeper or cookbook example I'll be so sad. 

I guess the clean sweeper should actually be easier cause of skins value.

I mean is it??? Really? Like Klei added a Stage to perform on which rewards the player with some very easy to kill brair hounds that reward them with really good loot such as sewing kits & mining hats…

If I was a game developer and this was already created as a “Noob location” intended to get free easy rewards just for stepping on a stage and interacting with it for a few seconds, then this is where I would ALSO put a few ruins chairs to hammer away at for the Blueprint- Hell the chairs could even be indestructible like the Endtable, so hammering at it drops the BP but can’t destroy the chairs.

For me personally I rarely ever waste resources on miners hats or sewing kits anymore, cause the pretty little setting the stage stage takes care of that.