Takes to long to max out skill tree

[Yuuko]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

they already do, the difference is that a PC player can skip days while a console player has to leave their console turned on during multiple nights and just sleep, achieving the same thing having spent the same amount of effort, just having waited three days   

No, they don't.  Players use console commands to skip the wait if they want, other wise the cost of getting the points is playing the character.

Otherwise what are you whining about? lol

Even console players can skip this if they want, just leave their console on AFK while they do other things like sleep.  It is not a big thing.

[grm9]

Just now, Shosuko said:

Even console players can skip this if they want, just leave their console on AFK while they do other things like sleep

that's what i just said, there's no point in complicating this by making them wait for three days after the update releases to be able to play with new stuff, might as well add a button that unlocks those or automatically unlock them after killing FW and CC as any character                                                                                 

[Yuuko]

19 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that's what i just said, there's no point in complicating this by making them wait for three days after the update releases to be able to play with new stuff, might as well add a button that unlocks those or automatically unlock them after killing FW and CC as any character                                                                                 

Yes there is a point.  B/c that is Klei's design.  You get the points over time.  Deal with it.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Shosuko said:

Yes there is a point.  B/c that is Klei's design.  You get the points over time.  Deal with it

that design sucks and they should either add a way to conveniently bypass it at least until it gets changed or change it so you get points for doing something instead of doing nothing during 160 days, especially in case of characters that are useless and boring without the skill tree perks like willow          

[Yuuko]

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that design sucks and they should either add a way to conveniently bypass it at least until it gets changed or change it so you get points for doing something instead of doing nothing during 160 days, especially in case of characters that are useless and boring without the skill tree perks like willow          

[Mike23Ua]

31 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that design sucks and they should either add a way to conveniently bypass it at least until it gets changed or change it so you get points for doing something instead of doing nothing during 160 days, especially in case of characters that are useless and boring without the skill tree perks like willow          

They could always charge you 2$ to speed up unlocking them per character.

Some shady EA corporate greed type stuff right there.. but hey, if EA got away with doing it so can other game companies too am I right?

[Spino43]

58 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

They could always charge you 2$ to speed up unlocking them per character.

Some shady EA corporate greed type stuff right there.. but hey, if EA got away with doing it so can other game companies too am I right?

Sure, let's make everything p2w, what can go wrong?

EA and those p2w companies pray on idiotic humans who spend tons of money on nonsense game advantages instead of improving themselves and providing their families well. If you want to be one of them, be my guest.

[shaurun]

15 hours ago, Alexx7 said:

people have lives outside of this game im not spending 360 hours of my life playing all 18 characters to play with their skill trees

use console commands then

You don't want to invest time into unlocking, but also don't want to use console commands, so you try to force developers to make it easier so you won't feel bad using console commands? I think no shame of using cheats to save your time. It's good that it allows you to play how you want without spending much time. And since this  way exists, and it costs nothing. we shouldn't force developers to change the default time. This game is already designed to spend A LOT of days in it. Just for defeating one of the main bosses, for example, I need more that 1 game year (I'm not speedrunner). So 160 days to unlock 1 skill tree is fine. + you can spend this time in different worlds.

[Pomato]

8 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

They could always charge you 2$ to speed up unlocking them per character.

Some shady EA corporate greed type stuff right there.. but hey, if EA got away with doing it so can other game companies too am I right?

That is actually a pretty great idea.

To attract more players, you know.

[Antynomity]

17 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

People who have lives outside of this game shouldn't care too much about the skill trees, then?

The grind is pretty intentional, and not required to fully unlock as soon as its released.

white knighting for how you obtain insight is the stranges thing I've seen so far on here.

 

The grind is a horrible to design something like this, genuinely just add XP rewards (which is what is used to award players insight) for killing bosses and stuff and then it's gonna be fine.

12 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Yes there is a point.  B/c that is Klei's design.  You get the points over time.  Deal with it.

360 hours to unlock all skills for all characters when most skills so far have been pretty badly designed is definitely great!

[arubaro]

i understand that they made it this way as an attempt of retaining new players but is an awful system

it might retain players for few hours but at the end, the players that get tired of failure, will drop the game anyway because it doesn't help to learn the game and neither rewards learning it which is what kills players and what makes them drop a punishing niche game like this

theey could have made a "tutorial like" skill tree system where you get a points for placing a crafting station, crafting a light source other than a torch, kill a giant, heal throw food, etc etc things that can be rushed if you have the experience while teaches players to play and they have an incentive to do these taks faster

instead they did this weird roge lite mechanic where you get more powerful because you asked where is base seconds before diying and leaving in 50 different servers

[Dragonboooorn]

18 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

so I imagine there's almost noone unlocking the trees the legit way anymore...

Im not gonna waste my time on charcters I dont even wanna play just to get their new skills 

[ECS.98]

9 hours ago, shaurun said:

use console commands then

You don't want to invest time into unlocking, but also don't want to use console commands, so you try to force developers to make it easier so you won't feel bad using console commands? 

We are not asking the developers to change to make this "easier". It's not even hard in the first place, you literally just have to spend 20 hours in game, it's boring. People are already saying that you could quite literally disable all dangers and leave the game afk for 20 hours to get it anyway, that just shows how the whole unlock mechanic has little meaning.

We want it changed because the system is bad! As simple as that. Telling me to use console commands because i don't wanna engage with a boring nonsensical unlock system doesn't make it any better. We're here to try to improve the game, and the way we can do it is by giving ideas and feedback.

Honestly, i'd be all for making unlocking Insight points harder, as long as it's actually engaging. If this system is supposed to help newcomers gain insight while "learning the game" then it's also a bad approach. Surviving x days has nothing to do with learning the game, or even playing it, as you can quite literally just disable dangers or be a base leech and get them anyway. 

If the unlock mechanics of the skill tree are supposed to be for learning a character, then why not make the system actually require players to engage with said character? Have different unlock mechanics for each character based on their perks and their playstyle, such as:

• Wilson: His skill tree is based on beard, torch and transmutation, so why not getting insight points for things like growing/shaving his beard, discovering and crafting new light sources or discovering and crafting items? 
• Wolfgang: His skill tree is about fighting, training and mightyness, so why not have the points being unlocked by things like going mighty, using the gym/dumbells, getting criticals on work while mighty and killing enemies/bosses?
• Willow: Her skill tree is based on magic, fire and Bernie, so why not have her unlock points by burning certain things, crafting and discovering magic and engaging with Bernie?
• Wigfrid: Her skill tree is about songs, craftables, combat and beefalo, so why not unlock the points by things like singing/crafting specific songs (just like we already have to do to unlock the skill itself), riding a beefalo, killing certain bosses and such? 

This would allow people to not only have to spend time with their character, but actually learn about the character, and experienced players will most likely be able to get them faster, so we don't have to spend 20 hours on a character we already spent hours playing before just because the skills are gatekept by time alone.

[cybers2001]

7 hours ago, Antynomity said:

white knighting for how you obtain insight is the stranges thing I've seen so far on here.

If you disagree with the implementation of insight, start a new topic and take it up with Klei. It seems pretty intentional to me, though. Using the argument "other people can cheat in this game, why can't I?" however, is weak, and calling that out is hardly white knighting, lol. Weird take, dude.

3 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Im not gonna waste my time on charcters I dont even wanna play just to get their new skills 

Why do you want new skills for characters you don't want to play?

22 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Even worse found out from a friend that now there's a mod that just gives you all the points and auto unlocks the alignment paths for client and it seems everyone who knows about it is using it so I imagine there's almost noone unlocking the trees the legit way anymore...

A massive amount now that it's been streamlined into a client mod personally I think they may as well rethink the unlock requirements if most players are going to bypass it.

Oh yeah, such a massive amount of players. Like a whole 12,000 looks like. Almost 25% of the number of players that downloaded a mod making The Lamb a playable character. How often do you see Lamb players in your games?

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, ECS.98 said:

We are not asking the developers to change to make this "easier". It's not even hard in the first place, you literally just have to spend 20 hours in game, it's boring. People are already saying that you could quite literally disable all dangers and leave the game afk for 20 hours to get it anyway, that just shows how the whole unlock mechanic has little meaning.

I feel like you are twisting some things here to suite your argument in an unfair way.

It only takes 160 days to max out a single character.  That is not a lot of time on any single character.  Only an experience person would even have taken out CC and AFW at that point, and inexperienced player will likely this before they survive one year.  If someone is actually playing all of the characters enough to warrant "deserving" to have all of the skills unlocked they will easily have that time per character - and would be putting that time in per-character anyway.  Many of the people complaining about this likely already have more time clocked then that lol.

2 hours ago, ECS.98 said:

We want it changed because the system is bad!

The system isn't bad.  Its simple.  It is in accordance with Klei's style of NOT telling you what to do.  Only the alignment skills require any specific activity, the rest are just "Have fun and play the game."  And if you are doing that, you get the points.  Congrats, you earned them.

Remember this is only a thing that is done once - ever - not per world.  I feel *most* of this kind of feedback is really wanting to say "we want MORE rpg side quests in game."  I am against that.  People aren't less deserving of some basic skill tree options - essentially character refresh 2.0 (or 3.5 if you're Willow) - it is not designed to be gated per-world or per-task.

[-Nick-]

Im the opposite. I like deleting my skillpoints and earning them all over again.

 

I'm weird i guess... 

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Im not gonna waste my time on charcters I dont even wanna play just to get their new skills 

I'm not judging anyone for doing this don't get why people are getting so defensive about this I'm saying console players shouldn't have to either sheesh.

1 hour ago, cybers2001 said:

Oh yeah, such a massive amount of players. Like a whole 12,000 looks like. Almost 25% of the number of players that downloaded a mod making The Lamb a playable character. How often do you see Lamb players in your games?

You do realize there's multiple versions of the mod both server and client side on top of console commands right?

[grm9]

16 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Many of the people complaining about this likely already have more time clocked then that lol

i bet there's a ton of people that didn't play as willow much before skill tree but will play as her if they get skill tree perks, since she's useless without them, also the system currently doesn't count in the amount of hours you spent as a character before that character got a skill tree   

17 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

If someone is actually playing all of the characters enough to warrant "deserving" to have all of the skills unlocked they will easily have that time per character

they still need to play that character for some time after the skill tree got released to be able to access it even if they played for a thousand of days as that character before the skill tree got released

20 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I feel *most* of this kind of feedback is really wanting to say "we want MORE rpg side quests in game."

nah that's for telling new players what to do so they don't end up not knowing what to do and never playing the game after that    

22 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

The system isn't bad.  Its simple.  It is in accordance with Klei's style of NOT telling you what to do.  Only the alignment skills require any specific activity, the rest are just "Have fun and play the game."  And if you are doing that, you get the points.  Congrats, you earned them

it rewards you equally for doing nothing and doing a lot, that's the problem

[cybers2001]

21 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You do realize there's multiple versions of the mod both server and client side on top of console commands right?

Feel free to throw some actual numbers then. Otherwise youre parading around a baseless point as fact.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, cybers2001 said:

Feel free to throw some actual numbers then.

You could probably just add up the amount of people who downloaded each mod can't really account for the console command crowd but I will say I have a hard time believing everyone on pubs including all the people asking where's base and those who are unable to survive winter all killed both end bosses and did the skill tree insight unlock on Wigfrid and Willow the day the skill trees dropped or thru the beta. It's possible but highly unlikely.

[Yuuko]

22 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

They could always charge you 2$ to speed up unlocking them per character.

Some shady EA corporate greed type stuff right there.. but hey, if EA got away with doing it so can other game companies too am I right?

They could make skill points weavable.

[ECS.98]

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

It only takes 160 days to max out a single character.  That is not a lot of time on any single character. [...]

[...] Many of the people complaining about this likely already have more time clocked then that lol.

160 days with a single character is still 20 hours of playtime, It is a lot of time for a lot of people. Yes i have put much more time than that playing as Wigfrid... spread across a timespan of 5 years. Despite having over 3000h in the game, it can still be hard to squeeze 20 hours at some point because real life exists.

I just don't find the need to gate some content that is essentially made to be available at any time behind a 20h playtime requirement. If there's anything that needs to be done to gate said content, then there are more engaging ways of doing so.

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Only an experience person would even have taken out CC and AFW at that point

Exactly, for an experienced player, 160 days are enough to accomplish a lot. And as such, it can feel like you're being rewarded less.

And i'm not one to rush content, heck i haven't even gotten to most of the recent updates. And in fact, i don't even feel like i can be helpful with feedback because i'm a casual veteran who likes to play this game with friends and have fun, instead of staying up to date in the content all the time.

But if some people can kill CC and AFW before even unlocking all the insight points, maybe they could have a way to unlock the insight points faster?

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

The system isn't bad.  Its simple.  It is in accordance with Klei's style of NOT telling you what to do.  Only the alignment skills require any specific activity, the rest are just "Have fun and play the game."  And if you are doing that, you get the points.  Congrats, you earned them.

And i honestly find the skill tree progression extremely jarring with how most skills can be acquired with quite simply spending time in the game, while the alignment skills suddenly require finishing the two current end-game bosses, a task many players don't even know how to accomplish.

What's your opinion on Wigfrid's Headliner branch then? Every skill in that branch has a very simple task requirement for unlocking it, and the branch itself is what sparked the idea i suggested on my previous post. Do you think that also goes against Klei's style?

I find that branch to be much more interesting and engaging as far as growing with the character goes.

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

People aren't less deserving of some basic skill tree options - essentially character refresh 2.0 (or 3.5 if you're Willow) - it is not designed to be gated per-world or per-task.

Then why make it gated at all? 

[Yuuko]

Just now, ECS.98 said:

160 days with a single character is still 20 hours of playtime, It is a lot of time for a lot of people. Yes i have put much more time than that playing as Wigfrid... spread across a timespan of 5 years. Despite having over 3000h in the game, it can still be hard to squeeze 20 hours at some point because real life exists.

 

tbh - if someone can't play a single character for 20 hours, they don't need a skill tree.

They could add weavable skill points.

[ECS.98]

5 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

tbh - if someone can't play a single character for 20 hours, they don't need a skill tree.

Or maybe that someone would really enjoy being able to spend the little time free they have for gaming by actually experiencing the content instead of being forced to sink 20 hours into it just to unlock said content.

[arubaro]

why people care how do you unlock insight if, once you unlock all (aka play enough), is forever?

the system only matters for people with minutes or few hours of play time while there is users treating players with X000h like totally cheaters that want to ignore a challenge...

moon rifts/hail change flashbacks...