Horsheen Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 I'm loving the direction that was taken when handling Wigfrid's skill tree, but one thing remains alarmingly consistent since Wigfrid's rework, and that is that some of her songs do not fulfil their purpose in a way that is satisfying, with Fireproof Falsetto being the one that comes to mind first. With this skill tree likely being the last time she will be looked over, it's important to bring these issues to the table now, in the hopes that Wigfrid's potential can finally be reached. The fact that Fireproof Falsetto has become a meme for how useless it is speaks volumes for the item. Alongside this, I think that Rude Interlude could also use some tweaking, but why is that? The problem with Rude Interlude is that the taunt deactivates when the enemy is hit. This is frustrating to say the least, as it essentially prevents your teammates from doing damage if you want to use the taunt as intended. My suggestion for Rude Interlude is quite simple, allow your teammates to hit the enemy while the taunt continues to stay active, meaning Wigfrid will be taking the brunt of the damage and cementing herself as more of a typical tank, this would synergise wonderfully with the new Battle Rond, as Wigfrid could keep herself safe while allowing her teammates to take advantage of the taunt. Fireproof Falsetto on the other hand is a bit of a bigger beastie to tackle. A fire resistance song is only as effective as the fire it's resisting which is....not a whole lot honestly. This song needs an overhaul or an additional benefit to entice players to use it over some of her other battle songs. I'm hoping Klei will take another look at what Wigfrid already has, and consider tweaking her to help her be the best she can be. Thank you for reading! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirToastyToes Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 Honestly consistent fire damage is so rare you might as well make it 100% Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
arubaro Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, SirToastyToes said: Honestly consistent fire damage is so rare you might as well make it 100% it could be atleast 66% instead of having a 33%resitance in something so damn niche idk why klei didnt buff the songs, isn't unbalanced considering how bad they are and requires little work to change few digits Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 The fact that it's gone this far long without any fixes to the song means that if you Wigfrid mains don't raise a stink it ain't going to happen. Speaking from experience. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grm9 Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 maybe just remove it, there are no bosses that deal fire damage except dfly which everyone use walls and flute against Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerJacob Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 Why not just scrap the fireproof aspect and make something else entirely? Like when the song is active you are immune to freezing and overheating? I think it would have some uses. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownloadADuck Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 1 hour ago, grm9 said: maybe just remove it, there are no bosses that deal fire damage except dfly which everyone use walls and flute against Klaus would like a word with you Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grm9 Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 1 minute ago, DownloadADuck said: Klaus would like a word with you it's hard to stay in the lava puddle for long enough to start taking fire damage instead of only overheating Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 2 hours ago, HowlVoid said: The fact that it's gone this far long without any fixes to the song means that if you Wigfrid mains don't raise a stink it ain't going to happen. Speaking from experience. I'm more concerned about the comannder helm at this point. I've resigned that every song except heartrending, warble and candenza are all bad songs. I'm trying to raise up a stink about the helm but literally no one cares lmao. I just want the update to release at this point so I can see if there are any nice skins to buy. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECS.98 Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 1 hour ago, chirsg said: I've resigned that every song except heartrending, warble and candenza are all bad songs. Ok, being honest here, i don't even get why they gave us 3 song slots. That makes it seems like we have to choose which 3 songs to use, but then only 3 songs are even worth using in the first place. Like if they allowed us to use every song without slots we'd still only use 3, so why is the slot thing even a thing? lol I've been a Wigfrid main since before her rework, my opinion on Fireproof Falsetto is simple: Delete it. Get rid of that song. No amount of buffing would make it worth using, even if it gave 100% fire resistance, when would it even be used? Dragonfly? Her enraged phase is skipped with Pan Flute anyway. Klaus? In theory, yes, but the fire spell is like the least of your worries. Hound attacks? Not like we'd have inspiration for it anyway... There's no situation that justifies the existence of this song, even less when it's arguably the hardest song to acquire. Ever since her rework was released, aside from using Heartrending Ballad and Weaponized Warble on raid bosses, i've just completely ignored the fact the songs (and inspiration as a whole) existed. And judging by the direction this skill tree is going, i'll just continue to ignore them (including Warrior's Reprise now that it's been nerfed to oblivion). Which i mean, doesn't really matter in the end, base Wigfrid even pre-rework was already a great character, and she remains being great. But it's just sad that so many characters get cool new things to expand on them, and for Wigfrid, new additions are just so underwhelming that the best thing to do is just ignore them (and i really hope the skill tree doesn't follow the same direction, but seeing the nerfs that already happened and the people asking for more nerfs, i'm not sure i should keep my hopes up) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 2 hours ago, ECS.98 said: Ok, being honest here, i don't even get why they gave us 3 song slots. That makes it seems like we have to choose which 3 songs to use, but then only 3 songs are even worth using in the first place. Like if they allowed us to use every song without slots we'd still only use 3, so why is the slot thing even a thing? lol I've been a Wigfrid main since before her rework, my opinion on Fireproof Falsetto is simple: Delete it. Get rid of that song. No amount of buffing would make it worth using, even if it gave 100% fire resistance, when would it even be used? Dragonfly? Her enraged phase is skipped with Pan Flute anyway. Klaus? In theory, yes, but the fire spell is like the least of your worries. Hound attacks? Not like we'd have inspiration for it anyway... There's no situation that justifies the existence of this song, even less when it's arguably the hardest song to acquire. Ever since her rework was released, aside from using Heartrending Ballad and Weaponized Warble on raid bosses, i've just completely ignored the fact the songs (and inspiration as a whole) existed. And judging by the direction this skill tree is going, i'll just continue to ignore them (including Warrior's Reprise now that it's been nerfed to oblivion). Which i mean, doesn't really matter in the end, base Wigfrid even pre-rework was already a great character, and she remains being great. But it's just sad that so many characters get cool new things to expand on them, and for Wigfrid, new additions are just so underwhelming that the best thing to do is just ignore them (and i really hope the skill tree doesn't follow the same direction, but seeing the nerfs that already happened and the people asking for more nerfs, i'm not sure i should keep my hopes up) Nothing against you or anything, because the last thing I need is to make more enemies in this community, but what I'm going to say is going to come off as REALLY harsh. Your entire post can be summed up by saying "They should delete fireproof falsetto" I think the problem with Wigfrid mains and making suggestions is we say too much to communicate very simple things. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine G Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 I definitely agree with this, it is a demand I have had for a long time. As somebody who has countless hours just as Wigfrid, I have barely relied on the Falsetto because it isn’t nearly as effective as it should be. While songs like the Ballad have universal use in any bossfight, these more niche use songs aren’t even that useful in the scenario they were designed for. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECS.98 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 On 12/14/2023 at 1:53 AM, chirsg said: Nothing against you or anything, because the last thing I need is to make more enemies in this community, but what I'm going to say is going to come off as REALLY harsh. Your entire post can be summed up by saying "They should delete fireproof falsetto" I think the problem with Wigfrid mains and making suggestions is we say too much to communicate very simple things. Honestly you're not wrong. Reading back to it, the Fireproof Falsetto paragraph was excessive, and i should have worded it better. We know damn well they won't just delete the song, so i could have tried to be more helpful with that post (as i have been in another thread even when referring to Fireproof Falsetto itself). So my apologies. My main point with the post was supposed to be on the song choices and how trivial they feel considering Weaponized Warble, Heartrending Ballad and Clear-Minded Cadenza are clearly the 3 best choices. And well, with the latest patch we'll have to see how much Noble Mount III can change that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 Fireproof is now 100% Fireproof and that… that’s Awesome. I got a bad feeling Klei’s going to be adding a lot more fire based hazards and mobs to make up for that though Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECS.98 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 Just now, Mike23Ua said: Fireproof is now 100% Fireproof and that… that’s Awesome. I got a bad feeling Klei’s going to be adding a lot more fire based hazards and mobs to make up for that though If that makes the song more usable i honestly would be all for it lol My main problem with Fireproof Falsetto was always the fact its usefulness was too limited by the situations in which it could be used, partially because of the fact we couldn't use it outside of bossfights due to the way inspiration works, but also because how fire damage is rarely used as a threat in the game. If anything, the actual threat from fire is spread and destruction, but it's rarely a direct threat to the actual character. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 33 minutes ago, ECS.98 said: If that makes the song more usable i honestly would be all for it lol My main problem with Fireproof Falsetto was always the fact its usefulness was too limited by the situations in which it could be used, partially because of the fact we couldn't use it outside of bossfights due to the way inspiration works, but also because how fire damage is rarely used as a threat in the game. If anything, the actual threat from fire is spread and destruction, but it's rarely a direct threat to the actual character. I don't think there is a problem with a spell that can be always available and is not mutually exclusive with any other perk to be more situational. IF there is a time when you would want fire immunity the spell is there, if you don't want it - it costs you nothing to not use it. The way it worked before with only a small decrease in damage was pretty bad. Even though she had it, and her regen, fire based combat was not a major thing for her and fire based builds like farms were the same as for everyone else. Now with total immunity this opens up some room to actually explore fire for her. I don't know if there is anything amazing waiting to be uncovered, but its entirely possible some fun jank stuff is going to come with this change and I'm excited for it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakepeng99 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 On 12/13/2023 at 8:29 PM, Horsheen said: I'm loving the direction that was taken when handling Wigfrid's skill tree, but one thing remains alarmingly consistent since Wigfrid's rework, and that is that some of her songs do not fulfil their purpose in a way that is satisfying, with Fireproof Falsetto being the one that comes to mind first. With this skill tree likely being the last time she will be looked over, it's important to bring these issues to the table now, in the hopes that Wigfrid's potential can finally be reached. The fact that Fireproof Falsetto has become a meme for how useless it is speaks volumes for the item. Alongside this, I think that Rude Interlude could also use some tweaking, but why is that? The problem with Rude Interlude is that the taunt deactivates when the enemy is hit. This is frustrating to say the least, as it essentially prevents your teammates from doing damage if you want to use the taunt as intended. My suggestion for Rude Interlude is quite simple, allow your teammates to hit the enemy while the taunt continues to stay active, meaning Wigfrid will be taking the brunt of the damage and cementing herself as more of a typical tank, this would synergise wonderfully with the new Battle Rond, as Wigfrid could keep herself safe while allowing her teammates to take advantage of the taunt. Fireproof Falsetto on the other hand is a bit of a bigger beastie to tackle. A fire resistance song is only as effective as the fire it's resisting which is....not a whole lot honestly. This song needs an overhaul or an additional benefit to entice players to use it over some of her other battle songs. I'm hoping Klei will take another look at what Wigfrid already has, and consider tweaking her to help her be the best she can be. Thank you for reading! Startling soliquary still needs it too. I agree the songs need changes, but i disagree with these changes. The rude one can allow wigfrid to taunt them and for other players to get free hits while wigfrid slightly walks away. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1688944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsheen Posted December 16, 2023 Author Share Posted December 16, 2023 8 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said: The rude one can allow wigfrid to taunt them and for other players to get free hits while wigfrid slightly walks away. Yes, that is what I have suggested Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1689020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakepeng99 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Horsheen said: Yes, that is what I have suggested I know, i was saying that it too op and cheesey. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1689035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatAndRun Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 Rude Interlude should work against bosses. Nobody uses Rude Interlude against non-boss creatures while not using Startling Soliloquy. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/153270-wigfrids-fireproof-falsetto-and-rude-interlude-are-still-in-desperate-need-of-attention/#findComment-1689273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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