How come most people believe the elding spear is underpowered?

[Fufuji]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:58 PM, Jakepeng99 said:

Static upgrade:

Planar damage? Check

Speed boost? Check

Easily Repairable? Check (Dash into some spiders, or passively repair while playing)

Planar Damage: 20 is obviously not enough. Using the spear with ANY armor paired isn't enough to sustain her DPS advantage over Wilson with basic weapon BS sword: before planar 25%, however after planar only 13% at most. Remember Wig is a char designed for battle, and she literally has even less "chores" skills than Wolfgang.

Speed Boost: It's to make up for you cannot switch to Walking Cane when using this weapon. This perk is what the Spear must have and without it, the Spear becomes totally garbage.

Repair: Even after the recent update, Weaponized Warble is needed for the Spear to work. I'm not going to say that its self-reparing is underwhelmed, but all other post-rifts weapons have unlimited duration, too. 

 

[prettynuggets]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

a restrained static that you can upgrade the spear with to make it repair itself

i think u mistaken? u dont need static to make elding spear repairable when do dashing action. (retried it just now and it somehow didnt, mybad.)
static only give u extra planar damage.
by taking Elding Spear Enhancement I skill u already unlock repairable weapon 

yes if u kill 4 then in 7 days u can get another full herd. but world come with full herd, and its not even rare to have 2nd herd in your oasis. 
even with ur assumption on 2 herd to get 2 horn, in first week u can make it but i dont think ur luck will be that sh*tty to not get any horn by first season. 


 

[chirsg]

8 minutes ago, prettynuggets said:

i think u mistaken? u dont need static to make elding spear repairable when do dashing action.

No. You DO need static to make the spear repairable. It's non repairable with no static.

[prettynuggets]

17 minutes ago, chirsg said:

No. You DO need static to make the spear repairable. It's non repairable with no static.

welp, i re-tried it but yeah u do need static for making it recharge. i guess i did slip up when i tried wigfrid before,or did they change it im not sure. my bad lol.

well i guess its fair to lock it after storm. with extra planar damage too. its not bad at all. 

[grm9]

1 hour ago, prettynuggets said:

i think u mistaken? u dont need static to make elding spear repairable when do dashing action. (retried it just now and it somehow didnt)
static only give u extra planar damage.
by taking Elding Spear Enhancement I skill u already unlock repairable weapon 

yes if u kill 4 then in 7 days u can get another full herd. but world come with full herd, and its not even rare to have 2nd herd in your oasis. 
even with ur assumption on 2 herd to get 2 horn, in first week u can make it but i dont think ur luck will be that sh*tty to not get any horn by first season. 

 

the point was that you'd spend the spear before you can get a new one, (35 days until spring from day 1/14 days to get a spear)+(5 goats killed within 1.75 days starting from the start of the world)/8 goats required to kill on average to get 2 horns=3.12 spears before spring and you could get a restrained static by the time you can get more herds in spring                 

[SSneaky]

using restrained static to upgrade it is not that accessible imo.

instead, what if you could charge it by receiving electrical damage, although it would protect you like the eyebrella and rain gear does. another option would be to charge it at a charged lightning rod (or the one boat sail upgrade).

 

 

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, Fufuji said:

Planar Damage: 20 is obviously not enough. Using the spear with ANY armor paired isn't enough to sustain her DPS advantage over Wilson with basic weapon BS sword: before planar 25%, however after planar only 13% at most. Remember Wig is a char designed for battle, and she literally has even less "chores" skills than Wolfgang.

It is 94 damage. That is alot. Plus, it even deals extra to wet mobs.

12 minutes ago, SSneaky said:

using restrained static to upgrade it is not that accessible imo.

instead, what if you could charge it by receiving electrical damage, although it would protect you like the eyebrella and rain gear does. another option would be to charge it at a charged lightning rod (or the one boat sail upgrade).

It is meant to be a planar upgrade.

[Fufuji]

22 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It is 94 damage.

I was talking about planar mobs.

If Elding Spear Enhancement I works properly (can restore duration with dash when uncharged), it will probably be a usable weapon before the rifts. It's DPS before rifts is sufficient, the duration isn't.

[IAmAFurrz]

On 12/11/2023 at 3:50 AM, prettynuggets said:

i have to disagree. 
i got tons of excess horn especially when i dont need to use weather pain for cc anymore i kinda have abundance of them 
also its not that rare too, they respawn pretty fast. u can repair/recharge this weapon, i dont think making one will be super hard 
if u really need many horns just make goat as ur main meat source and getting more herd when spring rain, horn isnt a problem 

Yea the answer to everythjng thats overpriced is 'just hoard stuff for 2 years' 

[maroonamanita]

On 12/10/2023 at 5:48 AM, Mike23Ua said:

Why is it underpowered you ask? Why it’s elementary my dear Watson the answer to this equation is a simple conundrum!

It is a LIGHTNING SPEAR, You Know… “Lightning” which is created by that god they call Zeus, Wigfrid should be able to throw it at an enemy to cause it to rain in an AoE around the spear forcing wetness onto the target before hitting with a powerful bolt of lightning called down, after the strike the spear should vanish in flash of light and the rain cloud should appear above Wigfrid, dropping the spear back out the cloud and into her clutches once more!

or for the kiddos out there unfamiliar with Zeus, Marvels Thor is what we’re aiming for here.  

Now After having said all that, do you not also feel it is underpowered? 

Why make the Zeus connection when wigfrid is supposed to be a Norse Viking. You know the place where Norse mythology that Thor is from. I mean they have a lot of the same powers, but its so condescending to be like "maybe you might of heard of something similar ."  Also not its not under powered. Expensive yes but when you actually make the spear its fine. It is just a better version of a morning star.  

[lenship2]

9 hours ago, Fufuji said:

Planar Damage: 20 is obviously not enough. Using the spear with ANY armor paired isn't enough to sustain her DPS advantage over Wilson with basic weapon BS sword: before planar 25%, however after planar only 13% at most. 

lol wigfrid can use the enlightened crown rlly easily with the spear though

in case you weren't aware, multiple low damage attacks are always going to outperform single high damage attacks when dealing with planar entity protection

meaning wigfrid with charged elden spear and celestial crown by themselves deals 93 damage/hit against planar!

and with both affinities and a wet target you get 117 damage/hit against planar

meanwhile wigfrid with a brightshade set only does 69 damage/hit against planar, and even with max lunar affinities that only maxes at 85

20 planar damage is quite a lot by itself tbf; shadow reaper's initial hit has only 27 planar damage assuming you have the helm, and wolfgang presumably set the max additional planar damage at a threshold of 25 with his skill set

as long as you have a celestial crown (which you always will assuming you have a charged spear), you'll get significantly higher damage

[goatt]

On 12/10/2023 at 6:58 AM, Jakepeng99 said:

Speed boost? Check

What is the speed boost? Walking speed?

[lenship2]

Just now, goatt said:

What is the speed boost? Walking speed?

20%, aka magiluminesence speed

[goatt]

1 minute ago, lenship2 said:

20%, aka magiluminesence speed

That’s insane. Thanks.

[Fufuji]

3 hours ago, lenship2 said:

lol wigfrid can use the enlightened crown rlly easily with the spear though

in case you weren't aware, multiple low damage attacks are always going to outperform single high damage attacks when dealing with planar entity protection

meaning wigfrid with charged elden spear and celestial crown by themselves deals 93 damage/hit against planar!

and with both affinities and a wet target you get 117 damage/hit against planar

meanwhile wigfrid with a brightshade set only does 69 damage/hit against planar, and even with max lunar affinities that only maxes at 85

20 planar damage is quite a lot by itself tbf; shadow reaper's initial hit has only 27 planar damage assuming you have the helm, and wolfgang presumably set the max additional planar damage at a threshold of 25 with his skill set

as long as you have a celestial crown (which you always will assuming you have a charged spear), you'll get significantly higher damage

I think the Crown can be equipped by other characters or paired with other weapons too. Wearing it sacrifices significant damage reduction against planar mobs. If I remembered it properly, wearing BS set against Deerclops Ice Lance, you take 17.5 damage; and wearing a single part you take 35 damage (no damage reduction other than armors' considered).

The Crown's availability is much improved for other characters after the introduction of  Polar bear bin.

And when the Crown is equipped, Wig's advantage over other characters could be very insignificant. That's what I don't want to see on a character boasting only combat perks.

Bounding Wig to certain equipment is also a dangerous take IMO. This could cause more problem when future new weapons and armors are introduced. It penalizes Wig's equipment choice variety, and further prevents she from utilizing future stronger equipment.

[lenship2]

6 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

 

12 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

The Crown's availability is much improved for other characters after the introduction of  Polar bear bin. (sorry for the weird formatting klei forums on mobile sucks)

And when the Crown is equipped, Wig's advantage over other characters could be very insignificant. That's what I don't want to see on a character boasting only combat perks.

Bounding Wig to certain equipment is also a dangerous take IMO. This could cause more problem when future new weapons and armors are introduced. It penalizes Wig's equipment choice variety, and further prevents she from utilizing future stronger equipment.

my point was that the charged elden spear was still a viable contender in a planar environment, and wigfrid can still make the choices of having the respective aligned gears for higher survivability

the existence of clear minded cadenza makes the crown an incredibly valuable item for wigfrid imo, and i was applying that value to the spear; its the only planar weapon that has no defined headslot armor to boost its damage

as for this:

13 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

If I remembered it properly, wearing BS set against Deerclops Ice Lance, you take 17.5 damage; and wearing a single part you take 35 damage (no damage reduction other than armors' considered).

with just a brightshade body armor equipped, you'll take 30.5 dmg, with the reduction formula looking like this:

(75×0.18)+((30×0.9)-10)

in the case of a lunar aligned wigfrid, it'll be 17.1:

((75×0.18×0.9×0.9)+((30×0.9×0.9×0.9)−10))×0.75

also! here's an average i made of all armor combinations against the lunar and shadow planar damage sources respectively (no other reductions considered), since i think you might find it helpful:

[BalkanCockroach]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:16 AM, SSneaky said:

using restrained static to upgrade it is not that accessible imo.

 

 

Doesn't need to be accessible early on, and when you proggress you're bound to get restrained static. The only reason this weapon is strong with charge is because of late game stuff. It's not meant to be OP early game weapon. It's like saying Enlightened crown isn't accesible.