How come most people believe the elding spear is underpowered?

[Jakepeng99]

Sometimes Invincable AOE Damage Dodge attack? Check

Good damage? Check

Lightning modifier? Check

 

Static upgrade:

Planar damage? Check

Speed boost? Check

Easily Repairable? Check (Dash into some spiders, or passively repair while playing)

 

This thing is not too cheap, and the comparisons to brightshade swords are not considering electric damage in rain, or the dodge attack which essentially makes you invincable. Without rain it is only a few points off. 

[Ohan]

Maxwell refresh broke everyone’s brains 

[grm9]

27 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Invincable

wrong

[Jakepeng99]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

wrong

No, Correct. You have invincability frames when using it, and the cooldown is fast enough that you can easily spam it. Alot of fights become easy.

[IAmAFurrz]

1 minute ago, Jakepeng99 said:

No, Correct. You have invincability frames when using it, and the cooldown is fast enough that you can easily spam it. Alot of fights become easy.

Checked. It doesnt give invincibility just super armor, you take dmg but no hitstun.

[Jakepeng99]

Just now, IAmAFurrz said:

Checked. It doesnt give invincibility just super armor, you take dmg but no hitstun.

Oh, it is probably because i used it against bosses with directional attacks. Against the ever increasing directional attacking bosses like celestial champion, shark, bearger ect, it is pretty much invincability.

[IAmAFurrz]

32 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Invincable AOE Damage Dodge attack? Check

Good damage? Check

Lightning modifier? Check

 

This thing is not too cheap, and the comparisons to brightshade swords are not considering electric damage in rain, or the dodge attack which essentially makes you invincable. Without rain it is only a few points off. 

The spear without upgrade is awfully expensive and rng dependent with how goat horns are. Even with con amu you will have to get 1 and even then its just better to save it for a static upgrade (tho for all consideration we should not consider construction amulet as the answer to expensive crafts)

Without upgrade it wont outlast a raid boss really. It is an option to use but a very expensive one

 

1 minute ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Oh, it is probably because i used it against bosses with directional attacks. Against the ever increasing directional attacking bosses like celestial champion, shark, bearger ect, it is pretty much invincability.

bosses with a circle hitbox are still plentiful: df, bq, ag (only jump for the most part since his dashes are too fast to hit without getting hit yourself), EoT/ToT dashes are the same, bearger/mutated slam, moosegoose, treeguard, spider queen, varg/mutated basic attack, malba, ink blight melee attack, shadow knight, fw, cc

And not the mention AoE attacks, knockback attacks can cancel you like ink blight jump chew, daywalker dash/slam etc

You get my point, lots of things can still hit you, and knockback **** you up if you choose to use dash ability as a dodge

Hope u dont take offense, im just writing this out to prove my point ^^

[Mike23Ua]

Why is it underpowered you ask? Why it’s elementary my dear Watson the answer to this equation is a simple conundrum!

It is a LIGHTNING SPEAR, You Know… “Lightning” which is created by that god they call Zeus, Wigfrid should be able to throw it at an enemy to cause it to rain in an AoE around the spear forcing wetness onto the target before hitting with a powerful bolt of lightning called down, after the strike the spear should vanish in flash of light and the rain cloud should appear above Wigfrid, dropping the spear back out the cloud and into her clutches once more!

or for the kiddos out there unfamiliar with Zeus, Marvels Thor is what we’re aiming for here.  

Now After having said all that, do you not also feel it is underpowered? 

[NoodlemanNed]

35 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

or for the kiddos out there unfamiliar with Zeus, Marvels Thor is what we’re aiming for here.  

Almost! Thor wields a hammer <3   

 

 

[SpookyXy]

People think its underpowered because its not 100% superior to brightsword in every circumstance. It needs to have AOE damage, a dash that lets to dodge and travel gaps/obstacles, 20% speed boost, repair itself, deal eletric and planar damage AND it must do noticably more damage than Wilson with brightsword, brighthelm versus a shadow creature. Right now it only does nearly equivalent damage, clearly underpowered.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, IAmAFurrz said:

The spear without upgrade is awfully expensive and rng dependent with how goat horns are. Even with con amu you will have to get 1 and even then its just better to save it for a static upgrade (tho for all consideration we should not consider construction amulet as the answer to expensive crafts)

Without upgrade it wont outlast a raid boss really. It is an option to use but a very expensive one

It works very well against the rest of the bossess, and is worth the trouble. I agree horn farming is dumb, they should make the goats drop more horns when electrified, though the price is fair.

1 hour ago, IAmAFurrz said:

bosses with a circle hitbox are still plentiful: df, bq, ag (only jump for the most part since his dashes are too fast to hit without getting hit yourself), EoT/ToT dashes are the same, bearger/mutated slam, moosegoose, treeguard, spider queen, varg/mutated basic attack, malba, ink blight melee attack, shadow knight, fw, cc

And not the mention AoE attacks, knockback attacks can cancel you like ink blight jump chew, daywalker dash/slam etc

You get my point, lots of things can still hit you, and knockback **** you up if you choose to use dash ability as a dodge

Hope u dont take offense, im just writing this out to prove my point ^^

They are slowly turning more and more existing bossess into directional attacks.

 

Besides, They made Wigfrid truly invincable with her new shield.

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, Ohan said:

Maxwell refresh broke everyone’s brains 

Darn it Maxwell we took you off the throne but you still find a way to be more of a pain than Charlie...wait was this her plan? To make us so focused on skill trees it gives her enough time to reach checkmate?

I humbly await judgement day when Maxwell skill tree refresh turns our brains to goo as each of his duelists are now fuel weavers and his servants are ink blights.

[Dragonboooorn]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Darn it Maxwell we took you off the throne but you still find a way to be more of a pain than Charlie...wait was this her plan? To make us so focused on skill trees it gives her enough time to reach checkmate?

I humbly await judgement day when Maxwell skill tree refresh turns our brains to goo as each of his duelists are now fuel weavers and his servants are ink blights.

Literally every character (except Wilson and Wes, they are jokes characters in Kleis mindset and dont deserve love) are now strong, and some are even too strong. Ive yet to found a single character that is in fact having troubles surviving.

And dont forget that half of the cast are about to get their skill trees too, so hold to your pants.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Literally every character (except Wilson and Wes, they are jokes characters in Kleis mindset and dont deserve love) are now strong, and some are even too strong. Ive yet to found a single character that is in fact having troubles surviving.

There are quite a few characters who are quite underpowered at the moment compared to the rest but that aside even before the skill trees and refreshes there was never a single survivor who had trouble surviving.

1 hour ago, Dragonboooorn said:

And dont forget that half of the cast are about to get their skill trees too, so hold to your pants.

I know still waiting for Maxwell's skill tree to make it so we need character refresh stage 3 to rebalance everything as now the first skill trees just aren't strong enough.

[Uedo]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why is it underpowered you ask? Why it’s elementary my dear Watson the answer to this equation is a simple conundrum!

It is a LIGHTNING SPEAR, You Know… “Lightning” which is created by that god they call Zeus, Wigfrid should be able to throw it at an enemy to cause it to rain in an AoE around the spear forcing wetness onto the target before hitting with a powerful bolt of lightning called down, after the strike the spear should vanish in flash of light and the rain cloud should appear above Wigfrid, dropping the spear back out the cloud and into her clutches once more!

or for the kiddos out there unfamiliar with Zeus, Marvels Thor is what we’re aiming for here.  

Now After having said all that, do you not also feel it is underpowered? 

Outside of fantasy though - It'd probably be more helpful to give feedback about the usage and actual in-game impact of the item in relation to the actual game and what's feasible. 

Of course you could make it more thematically 'Zeus'-like, but that's not really anything to do with tuning the item at all. 
I could say I feel it's underpowered because I feel it should be able to make me invincible and give me the ability to travel in the air as a spark. That wasn't the design of the item so it's redundant. 
(It'd be helpful if you could actually test the item and give reliable feedback, you can't at the moment so ....)

I think it's not really underpowered but like most things it's somewhat niche - I can't see much of a use outside of its gimmick when we have other ways of achieving similar results or greater with other pre-existing methods. Unless the dash and invincibility frames are such big attractors to some people, I wouldn't personally use it that much, not as a replacement to other strategies at least. That being said; Most items are not immediately useful in their design and that's ok, I don't really like the lack of choice the current endgame has in terms of 1-for-1 upgrades to tools/weapons/armour so more items are appreciated but yeah, it feels another item that bloats the game when we're clearly have items that are pedigree.  

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Uedo said:

invincibility frames

the dash doesn't have them 

[Uedo]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

the dash doesn't have them 

Ah ok, I didn't think it did, the OP mandela'd me  

I mean.... it's still great if you wanna jump a water tile I guess D:

[mima_]

6 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

he spear without upgrade is awfully expensive and rng dependent with how goat horns are

i have to disagree. 
i got tons of excess horn especially when i dont need to use weather pain for cc anymore i kinda have abundance of them 
also its not that rare too, they respawn pretty fast. u can repair/recharge this weapon, i dont think making one will be super hard 
if u really need many horns just make goat as ur main meat source and getting more herd when spring rain, horn isnt a problem 

[Mike23Ua]

6 hours ago, SpookyXy said:

People think its underpowered because its not 100% superior to brightsword in every circumstance. It needs to have AOE damage, a dash that lets to dodge and travel gaps/obstacles, 20% speed boost, repair itself, deal eletric and planar damage AND it must do noticably more damage than Wilson with brightsword, brighthelm versus a shadow creature. Right now it only does nearly equivalent damage, clearly underpowered.

If you want to get technical, let’s get technical- Wigfrid is the only character in the entire game aside from MAYBE Wendy who’s Weapons should be useable regardless of which “stage” of the game your in. 
 

Wigfrids weapons should never fall out of use late game, even if that mean she has to apply late game resources into upgrading her gear they should ALWAYS be better than the late game gear.

Why you ask? Well the answer is literally staring you in the face anytime you play as Wigfrid, she has several beautiful unique skins for her spears & helms (and I imagine future shields as well) 

So For Klei to let these items fall out of use at Any point of the game is a pretty wacky development choice, and probably just frustrates those who buy pretty weapon and armor skins when they have to stop using those items.

Make it require a weapon smithy forged from the bones of AFW & CC themselves- I don’t really care, but these items should be upgradeable, & should be able to scale in power alongside the rest of the game content..

And you can blame them having pretty skins for my persuasion on this opinion.

[grm9]

20 minutes ago, prettynuggets said:

if u really need many horns just make goat as ur main meat source and getting more herd when spring rain

tbh by the time you setup a farm using spring goats you could've already killed CC 

[Mysterious box]

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

If you want to get technical, let’s get technical- Wigfrid is the only character in the entire game aside from MAYBE Wendy who’s Weapons should be useable regardless of which “stage” of the game your in. 

Walter, Wanda, Wurt, and Webber say you got some explaining to do.

[Jakepeng99]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

tbh by the time you setup a farm using spring goats you could've already killed CC 

By that time spent playing dst i could become an astro naut.

[mima_]

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

tbh by the time you setup a farm using spring goats you could've already killed CC 

idk why u need set up a specific farm. when u can kill them by bashing stick to their head and u can redo that in less than 2 days. over and over. 

[Spino43]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why you ask? Well the answer is literally staring you in the face anytime you play as Wigfrid, she has several beautiful unique skins for her spears & helms (and I imagine future shields as well) 

So For Klei to let these items fall out of use at Any point of the game is a pretty wacky development choice, and probably just frustrates those who buy pretty weapon and armor skins when they have to stop using those items.

Wes is also a weak character, so let's not use him and buy his skins because of that.

Pulling the skins out as an argument is hilarious and bonker.

[grm9]

13 hours ago, prettynuggets said:

idk why u need set up a specific farm. when u can kill them by bashing stick to their head and u can redo that in less than 2 days. over and over. 

1.75 days respawn time on average*4 goats required to kill on average for one horn*2 horns per spear=14 days to get another spear assuming that someone doesn't make a weather pain or a volt goat jelly and by the time you get more herds to be able to spend more than one spear per 14 days you could've already activated moonstorms for a restrained static that you can upgrade the spear with to make it repair itself so farming horns from goats for spears becomes pointless after you spend around 3 spears, which are equivalent to less than 4 dark swords, and i'm sure most people spend more dark swords before spring than this if they create a shadow manipulator before first half of autumn ends or around that