Beefalo problem. And the idea behind the skill tree.

[Yuuko]

2 minutes ago, xDpromonick9 said:

but can you understand that I can tame a cow, explore with insane speed and if I am stronger than cow I CAN DROP OFF COW AND USE HAND.

Yeah, you can also stack walking cane + magi if you want.  That is what I normally do.  I'm sure there are some wizards who can rush ruins AND tame a beef at the same time, but I cannot.  I don't have the skill for that lol  So I rush ruins, get magi, kill AG hope for cane, if not get it first winter anyway.  Tons of move speed and light so I can explore really easily the whole map.

[Swiyss]

and the wigfrid being the leader of the cow movement is good opportunity for klei to look at us too. ALL MY FRIEND ARE ON COWS. I hate being left out just cause I dislike riding on cow.

Just now, Shosuko said:

Yeah, you can also stack walking cane + magi if you want.  That is what I normally do.  I'm sure there are some wizards who can rush ruins AND tame a beef at the same time, but I cannot.  I don't have the skill for that lol  So I rush ruins, get magi, kill AG hope for cane, if not get it first winter anyway.  Tons of move speed and light so I can explore really easily the whole map.

yeah, but you see how hard it is to rush ruins and risk dying over just kiling a bunch of butterflies and feeding twigs to a furry beast?

that's called unbalance in my book

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, xDpromonick9 said:

They deal too much damage after domesticating it

then you will go bananas if you ever craft a hambat

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

Ok, why would Klei put beefalo skills in Wigfrid's skill tree? I have a few answers.

Viking lore. They rode thunder goats or something (which is ironically in dst) and beefalos are the closest thing that wont feel odd like riding a goat.

 

It is cool for Wigfrid benifits to transfer onto beefalo.

[Swiyss]

Just now, arubaro said:

then you will go bananas if you ever craft a hambat

yeah dude, that's the root of the problem. yet you can't seem to grasp that. the damage is fine actually I take that back, the movespeed however is questionable.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

There should be an exclusive skill tree for Beefalo and never for one character. This is a mistake.

This would be cool though. Beefalos need riff stuff as much as many characters.

[Mike23Ua]

As someone who actually enjoys taming, and riding Beefalos regardless of the character I’m playing as- I can tell you EXACTLY what Wigfrids Beefalo skill tree is supposed to represent & do.

First off Representation: Valkyries (both real and fictional) are often portrayed as riding into combat on top of a noble stead, be that a Horse, a Flying Chariot, Unicorns- Whatever.. Wait.. Unicorns? Like her Helme.. uh nvm moving on.

Second USEAGE: Faster Domestication Process and longer riding time before being bucked off (riding also counts as part of the Domestication Process) = Tamed out Beefalo faster, now here’s what people seem to have forgot about Beefalo:

ANYONE can ride your fully tamed out Beefalo- AND Thanks to a Craftable that was add to the game as a permanent item back with Year of the Beefalo: as long As the player has this in their inventory the Beefalo will follow that player around endlessly and loyally (even into caves or across the ocean) 

So the TL:DR- Wigfrid can tame the Beefalo faster and then give them- As well as “Horse Armor” to other players while she goes off to tame another one for someone else. It thematically fits with being able to craft and hand out Helms & Spears.

However- Klei could add a bonus benefit to Beefalo for Wigfrid, by giving her a temporary boost in damage, protection or Insight points, shortly after dismounting a Beefalo she was riding, which the best way to explain that would be similar to Wolfgang using the Might Gym to Buff up (to Purple Might Meter) then having that start to drain out till she rides into battle again.

Or as Wigfrid would say: The power of the Unicorn protects Me!

[arubaro]

3 minutes ago, xDpromonick9 said:

yeah dude, that's the root of the problem. yet you can't seem to grasp that. the damage is fine actually I take that back, the movespeed however is questionable.

sure, they are so fast that i rather use telelocator focus to reach the center of the map in my megabase world...

beefalos are far from op in any regard

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

sure, they are so fast that i rather use telelocator focus to reach the center of the map in my megabase world...

beefalos are far from op in any regard

im wx, i get movespeed buff by analizing an undergroun broken ancient machinery ---> whatever cause beefalo give 50% anyway

im wormwood, i give hours to optimize the blooming effect (very balanced btw) ---> doesnt matter cause cow exist

I'm anny other char. i just the freaking ruins and kill a literal boss on a cave to have A CHANCE to potentially get lazy explorer and craft a magi ---> give cow twig haha(???)

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

However- Klei could add a bonus benefit to Beefalo for Wigfrid, by giving her a temporary boost in damage, protection or Insight points, shortly after dismounting a Beefalo she was riding, which the best way to explain that would be similar to Wolfgang using the Might Gym to Buff up (to Purple Might Meter) then having that start to drain out till she rides into battle again.

Or as Wigfrid would say: The power of the Unicorn protects Me!

exacttlyyyy

[arubaro]

1 minute ago, xDpromonick9 said:

im wx, i get movespeed buff ---> whatever cause beefalo give 50% anyway

im wormwood, i give hours to optimize the blooming effect (very balanced btw) ---> doesnt matter cause cow exist

I'm anny other char. i just the freaking ruins and kill a literal boss on a cave to have A CHANCE to potentially get lazy explorer and craft a magi ---> give cow twig haha(???)

man, you are comparing easy to access speed with something you have to work throw an entire season and only once you know what you are doing and with the potential of losing it forever

keep the drama

[Swiyss]

Just now, arubaro said:

man, you are comparing easy to access speed with something you have to work throw an entire season and only once you know what you are doing and with the potential of losing it forever

keep the drama

the thing is, why would I ever play wx for movespeed? why would I ever play wormwood for movespeed? why would I ever focus on rushing the ruins early to have lightning movement speed? if year of  the beefalo came and now you give cow a twig and explore the entire map day 5. seems questionable right?

[arubaro]

Just now, xDpromonick9 said:

the thing is, why would I ever play wx for movespeed? why would I ever play wormwood for movespeed? why would I ever focus on rushing the ruins early to have lightning movement speed? if year of  the beefalo came and now you give cow a twig and explore the entire map day 5. seems questionable right?

i shouldn't answer someone who is over exaggerating but just to make you know, i main wormwood and i have a speedy beefalo. You arent on top of a cow 24/7

also, if you have problems picking wx over every other character+ a beefalo is your fault, not a design flaw 

[Swiyss]

i love wx and wormwood movespeed. and people look at a wx78 in a server going full nuts and think OMG SO COOL, but he can't invoke shadows from the darkness to stun enemies, so it's fine.

if you look at some random folk with a beefalo, you think, omg I could do exactly what he does, yet I hate riding beefalos for the aesthetic, i hate having to care about something outside of myself and having to constantly feed it. and yet, its not that hard, but I dont LIKE IT. then in my mind I can't see any downside he's having. because there isn't a downside to playing with a beefalo and having that movespeed, but there IS a downside for playing a different character, because every character is different.

thats the wilson problem all over again. 

[arubaro]

2 minutes ago, xDpromonick9 said:

i love wx and wormwood movespeed. and people look at a wx78 in a server going full nuts and think OMG SO COOL, but he can't invoke shadows from the darkness to stun enemies, so it's fine.

if you look at some random folk with a beefalo, you think, omg I could do exactly what he does, yet I hate riding beefalos for the aesthetic, i hate having to care about something outside of myself and having to constantly feed it. and yet, its not that hard, but I dont LIKE IT. then in my mind I can't see any downside he's having. because there isn't a downside to playing with a beefalo and having that movespeed, but there IS a downside for playing a different character, because every character is different.

thats the wilson problem all over again. 

so you mad cuz you dont like it

self-explanatory 

[Swiyss]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

i shouldn't answer someone who is over exaggerating but just to make you know, i main wormwood and i have a speedy beefalo. You arent on top of a cow 24/7

also, if you have problems picking wx over every other character+ a beefalo is your fault, not a design flaw 

so, let's say I hate using hambats because I don't like a weapon that has meat in it, sure I will be missing on a lot of things because of my preferences.

but there is a catch here my friend, there are more weapons in the game than the hambat my friend, and they are as easily obtainable as a hambat and even deal more damage, like the darksword

klei releasing 2 different syles which you can choose from is very healthy, moon vs caves. very good. i have the choice. but the choice for both is equally hard AND both alterntives have their each downside and upside, so it's fine if i'm losing something in gain of another thing.

if the downside of riding beefalos is taming it, and I see a bunch of people saying it's not that hard to tame it even. and the movespeed you get is the same as a fully geared regular character, but the downside is "grinding". then again for the fourth time I should explain why that is a flawed design. imagine a gun that takes 400 trips to the lunar island back and forth but once you finally get it it deals 5k damage a hit and it costs gunpowder. "it's too op" I say, and klei says it's ok because they're grinding for it. same as grinding for a magi and a walking cane.

now if you look at any speedrunner out there who plays maxwell. anyone who likes to tame beefalos. they're always ahead of everyone because their gameplay is easier to come across. it's easier to grind a beefalo than it is to grind a magi and a walking cane, or benefit from any character movespeed buff. and heck, the character buff is as op as it is, however these characters have downsides.

now I main wormwood too since release, and i got pissed when they overbuffed him with the skill tree, sure bramble husk specialist of whatever, but the damage is low. the blooming skill tree is simply overpowered and changed the way the blooming worked because people couldn't maintain blooming for long periods of time. lots and lots of flaws they keep making it because they're listening to the wrong people. I know you guys wanna have fun, that's fun, but 50% of people having fun while 50% are not is bad.

now having fun in the game is different from people's idea of jealousy. i'm not jealous for the people riding a beefalo, i'm actually very happy that they can do something they were willing to do since the original don't starve era, and that's amazing. but when that "having fun" disrupts the balance of the game, even if you don't like it, is going to be detrimental for some folks. we can't make everyone happy, we can't give people what they want. we can't control them. but we can do the right thing. even if it huts some people. and that is FINE by me. if you have to nerf MY character and MY style of gameplay because it was too easy or too detrimental to other people that have different styles then that is absolutely reasonable.

[arubaro]

4 minutes ago, xDpromonick9 said:

so, let's say I hate using hambats because I don't like a weapon that has meat in it, sure I will be missing on a lot of things because of my preferences.

but there is a catch here my friend, there are more weapons in the game than the hambat my friend, and they are as easily obtainable as a hambat and even deal more damage, like the darksword

klei releasing 2 different syles which you can choose from is very healthy, moon vs caves. very good. i have the choice. but the choice for both is equally hard AND both alterntives have their each downside and upside, so it's fine if i'm losing something in gain of another thing.

if the downside of riding beefalos is taming it, and I see a bunch of people saying it's not that hard to tame it even. and the movespeed you get is the same as a fully geared regular character, but the downside is "grinding". then again for the fourth time I should explain why that is a flawed design. imagine a gun that takes 400 trips to the lunar island back and forth but once you finally get it it deals 5k damage a hit and it costs gunpowder. "it's too op" I say, and klei says it's ok because they're grinding for it. same as grinding for a magi and a walking cane.

now if you look at any speedrunner out there who plays maxwell. anyone who likes to tame beefalos. they're always ahead of everyone because their gameplay is easier to come across. it's easier to grind a beefalo than it is to grind a magi and a walking cane, or benefit from any character movespeed buff. and heck, the character buff is as op as it is, however these characters have downsides.

now I main wormwood too since release, and i got pissed when they overbuffed him with the skill tree, sure bramble husk specialist of whatever, but the damage is low. the blooming skill tree is simply overpowered and changed the way the blooming worked because people couldn't maintain blooming for long periods of time. lots and lots of flaws they keep making it because they're listening to the wrong people. I know you guys wanna have fun, that's fun, but 50% of people having fun while 50% are not is bad.

now having fun in the game is different from people's idea of jealousy. i'm not jealous for the people riding a beefalo, i'm actually very happy that they can do something they were willing to do since the original don't starve era, and that's amazing. but when that "having fun" disrupts the balance of the game, even if you don't like it, is going to be detrimental for some folks. we can't make everyone happy, we can't give people what they want. we can't control them. but we can do the right thing. even if it huts some people. and that is FINE by me. if you have to nerf MY character and MY style of gameplay because it was too easy or too detrimental to other people that have different styles then that is absolutely reasonable.

maxwell players use beefalos so they can use shadow thurible to buff their shadows...

everything else...i better ignore it

[Swiyss]

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Not even remotely - nothing about Wigfrid - being a method actor who has taken her role as a combat monkey too far - gives her any business being "the mount character" especially considering using a mount - even with these new skills - is pretty much a straight NERF to her character.  Anyone who wants to play Wig on a mount for combat should really just be playing someone else.  None of her beef skills serve any purpose except to be there "b/c"

Her theme is not to provide others with equipment - hence her new spear, better helm, and shield are all exclusive to her.  As are her odd perks for bonus ride time and ??planar damage?? on beef? wtf is that even...

Unlock after killing celestial champion?  eh idk.  Unlock after spending 20+ days constantly dumping sticks into it?  Maybe.

I mean beef don't do 5000 damage so its not the most apt analogy.  Their damage is kinda low unless you anim cancel, and even then you can just anim cancel with better weapons then they are to get more deeps.  Maxwell is not greatly enhanced by beefalo's health - b/c his shadow prison and duelists mean he is rarely close enough to get hit.

so how about every character get a skill tree on beefalo taming? then if you wanna ride as fast as you can and do as much damage as a dark sword i'm super fine with that. as long as it doesn't take some twigs on day 1 and a saddle for you to ride at unbalanced speed, nor attacking something repeatedly until it deals more damage. maybe we need more optimization and a slow and steady but more rewarding beefalo experience. maybe wigfrid skill tree should be that she crafts a machine that helps you evolve your own beefalo through a separate skill tree, then everyone would be happy.

[Yuuko]

1 minute ago, xDpromonick9 said:

so how about every character get a skill tree on beefalo taming? then if you wanna ride as fast as you can and do as much damage as a dark sword i'm super fine with that. as long as it doesn't take some twigs on day 1 and a saddle for you to ride at unbalanced speed, nor attacking something repeatedly until it deals more damage. maybe we need more optimization and a slow and steady but more rewarding beefalo experience. maybe wigfrid skill tree should be that she crafts a machine that helps you evolve your own beefalo through a separate skill tree, then everyone would be happy.

Have you domesticated many beefalo?

[prettynuggets]

4 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Have you domesticated many beefalo?

i have better question: have OP ever domesticated beefalo before? 
smh to get beefalo have darksword damage is by using warsaddle. where it gave only half speed boost from regular saddle. and this thing need 4 steel wool.

also day 1 riding beefalo might unlikely if lucky find the beefalo and maybe touch stone for the pigskin to make saddle, which locked behind alchemy.
even u got them saddled u will be likely only able to mount less than a min for a couple of days cus constant remounting or get thrown from their backs. 
idk reading his takes make me think he barely have any experience in taming beefalo. 

[arubaro]

3 minutes ago, prettynuggets said:

smh to get beefalo have darksword damage is by using warsaddle

and one thing is having the same damage but the dps is different (not counting animation cancelling since wasnt the design intention)

[Swiyss]

7 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Have you domesticated many beefalo?

around 3 times only. now that you asked i'm gonna give you my experience:

I give twig and saddle and ride it.

I assemble the marble pieces and keep riding it. 

I realize i explored the map way quicker than usual with very little resource. I feel unbalanced and bad about it.

beefalo turns ornery and I used it to kill klaus.

I realize beefalos are missing a lot of potential in some areas and is too op in others.

I just pray klei either change beefalos or nerf the instant movespeed buff by day 1.

I let it untame itself and die out. and leave it in a place where I can come back to it if I wanna retake him

day 120 there are too many beefalos where I left him

day 300 there is a huge amount of beefalos next to my base screwing my things

I kill all of them.

now I need a beefalo again cause I want one to move the moon pieces together consistently.

they multiply again and now I cant kill them cause they are the only herd left

realise something needs fixing in that regard and create a bad idea of riding beefalos.

conclusion: op speed early game for cow lover to shut up about it and enjoy their riding lifes put with unecessary long taming time and useless multiplying ability.

more of a pain in the ass than an actual enjoyable experience.

5 minutes ago, prettynuggets said:

i have better question: have OP ever domesticated beefalo before? 
smh to get beefalo have darksword damage is by using warsaddle. where it gave only half speed boost from regular saddle. and this thing need 4 steel wool.

also day 1 riding beefalo might unlikely if lucky find the beefalo and maybe touch stone for the pigskin to make saddle, which locked behind alchemy.
even u got them saddled u will be likely only able to mount less than a min for a couple of days cus constant remounting or get thrown from their backs. 
idk reading his takes make me think he barely have any experience in taming beefalo. 

I do have experiencing taming one, and I think is a bad design and it sucks. and is justified by making maxwell more op and having instant movespeed early game.

[Trips]

3 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

Yeah but I can argue that a weapons that deals 5000 damage but only unlocks after killing the celestial champion 51 times and the fuelweaver 25 is worth because of the "heavy investment".  See? This is how you sound.

not to interrupt the lover's quarrel (you and Shosuko's reply chain goes on forever lol) but this argument is pretty hyperbolic. 

beefalos aren't that resource-intensive to tame, but they're definitely a time investment and not nearly as replaceable as your dark sword when it breaks. i don't really bother with beefalos since i'm not really into that playstyle, and i don't think i'm missing out on that much in terms of damage either way. now if you're looking at stuff like what wendy is capable of with a beefalo then maybe your argument stands up - but as far as i know you still do around the same damage just running Wolfgang and you don't have to feed a cow for 20 days to get his damage output. 

simply put, a beefalo is very far away from being an instant win button

[ShadowDuelist]

I think this thread is derailing a bit.
 

In my opinion it’s fine that Wigfrid gets beefalo perks, but their current given ones are super bland and bad for Wigfrid and nobody will ever pick them in their current state, since she has no synergy with beefalos. She is one of the few characters that actually loses more than she gains with a beefalo.

They need to transfer some of her perks to beefalos through the skill tree: EG the passive life leech when fighting mounted to heal the beef HP, perhaps allow her to deal electric damage or charge using the spear while mounted, or block attacks somehow with the shield while mounted.
 

That’s the path a mounted valkirie warrior should take should you pick those perks above others. Current ones are meaningless.

 

[Swiyss]

8 minutes ago, Trips said:

not to interrupt the lover's quarrel (you and Shosuko's reply chain goes on forever lol) but this argument is pretty hyperbolic. 

beefalos aren't that resource-intensive to tame, but they're definitely a time investment and not nearly as replaceable as your dark sword when it breaks. i don't really bother with beefalos since i'm not really into that playstyle, and i don't think i'm missing out on that much in terms of damage either way. now if you're looking at stuff like what wendy is capable of with a beefalo then maybe your argument stands up - but as far as i know you still do around the same damage just running Wolfgang and you don't have to feed a cow for 20 days to get his damage output. 

simply put, a beefalo is very far away from being an instant win button

if I wanna play wolfgang, I can't fight with a beefalo, period, same as wigfrid. Could they change that? yes.

If I wanna play maxwell, wendy, wilson and most character overall, I WILL be missing out by not taming a beefalo because his movespeed is kinda free yn?

If I wanna play wormwood, WX78 or woodie I will have this feeling that my movespeed is not that important because the wilson with a beefalo and 40 twigs is faster than me early game.

that's my point.

[NoodlemanNed]

44 minutes ago, xDpromonick9 said:

If I wanna play wormwood, WX78 or woodie I will have this feeling that my movespeed is not that important because the wilson with a beefalo and 40 twigs is faster than me early game.

i think you overestimate how fast beefalo actually are in the earlygame. yes are a big improvement over base walking but all the characters you mentioned will be moving faster than a default beefalo with a default saddle.

beefalo only start to compete with speed characters once you get a rider beefalo and/or a glossamer saddle, both of which are way more expensive than any other combination of speed boosts in the game (except warbis).