Marble armor should protect the beefalo rider from knockback attacks.

[HeatAndRun]

Recently added bosses and creatures like nightmare werepig, ink blight, brightshade and reanimated lunar bosses have knockback in their attacks. It is especially deadly when player's riding a beefalo, because the beefalo will immediately aggro on the mobs at the same time the player fell off the beefalo. Which leads to an instant death to beefalo, unless you have a telelocator staff for your cow.

So I suggest : If the player is wearing a marble suit, the player won't fall from beefalo.

It would be a nice way to counter the knockback attacks. Considering beefalo has no planar attack, and there's no way to revive beefalo (unless rollback), it's a kinda fair way to persuade the beefalo enjoyers.

[Gashzer]

Dont use beefalos for combat is the easiest solution. Otherwise i think these new mechanics give the ornery beefalo a well needed downside as its an infinite tentacle spike, mag/cane and regenerating 80% armour all in one package. 

Ps. Klei pls remove abigails 40% damage boost to mounted beefalo attacks, it should be 10% as wendy isn't technically doing the attacking. And then add a new potion that boosts the damage of other players/followers/mounted beefalo/any damage really by 30 to 40% to the skill tree. 

[Fufuji]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Dont use beefalos for combat is the easiest solution. Otherwise i think these new mechanics give the ornery beefalo a well needed downside as its an infinite tentacle spike, mag/cane and regenerating 80% armour all in one package. 

Ps. Klei pls remove abigails 40% damage boost to mounted beefalo attacks, it should be 10% as wendy isn't technically doing the attacking. And then add a new potion that boosts the damage of other players/followers/mounted beefalo/any damage really by 30 to 40% to the skill tree. 

Abigail 40% physical damage boost working for beefalo is specially written in the codes. It belongs to special damage boost and is one of the only 2 special damage boosts.

The other is Wanda's -50%~+75% physical damage mult, which will be fixed to 0% on a beefalo.

That's to say, removing this 40% bonus will lead to an unintended underwhelming DPS for Wendy.

[Antynomity]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Dont use beefalos for combat is the easiest solution. Otherwise i think these new mechanics give the ornery beefalo a well needed downside as its an infinite tentacle spike, mag/cane and regenerating 80% armour all in one package. 

Ps. Klei pls remove abigails 40% damage boost to mounted beefalo attacks, it should be 10% as wendy isn't technically doing the attacking. And then add a new potion that boosts the damage of other players/followers/mounted beefalo/any damage really by 30 to 40% to the skill tree. 

aka make wendy actively more boring, grindy, and worse as a character, no thank you, she's perfect as she is and one of the only characters that has actual progression and a skill floor and ceiling.

[Gashzer]

26 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

Abigail 40% physical damage boost working for beefalo is specially written in the codes. It belongs to special damage boost and is one of the only 2 special damage boosts.

The other is Wanda's -50%~+75% physical damage mult, which will be fixed to 0% on a beefalo.

That's to say, removing this 40% bonus will lead to an unintended underwhelming DPS for Wendy.

So wendys 0.75x damage effects a beefalo too?? Im confused. If this special code is to fix wendys damage not bein lower on a beefalo then just rewrite it a better way.

I feel the ornery cancelling out the 0.75x damage of wendy is buff enough without the added 40% from attacking with abigail.

Right now taming an ornery beefalo is overwhelmingly the main strategy for wendy players (why use any other strategy?). I feel this slight nerf will encourage wendy players to engage with other weapons the game has to offer and if a new potion is added to bring back the 40% damage to the ornery beefalo and to buff other players aswell then that way it isnt really a permanent nerf. 

But yeah back on track with beefalos. They already cancel out so many character downsides(wormwood, walter, wendy, wes, maxwell) and reduce the usefulness or reason to choose other characters for their upsides.

13 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

aka make wendy actively more boring, grindy, and worse as a character, no thank you, she's perfect as she is and one of the only characters that has actual progression and a skill floor and ceiling.

How more boring? An ornery beefalo already cancels her downside so with this nerf she would be just the same as wilson taming an ornery. And wendy is the character with the least character progression and skill floor-ceiling in the game lol (wanda, maxwell, wurt, webber, winona, wicker, wx like more than half the roster, even willow obtaining extra bernies/sewing kit with a bone helm has argubly more progression)

Walter has a much higher skill floor-ceiling. Has all the utility of a beefalo without the need to tame one for rushing shadow pieces, lunar altars and general exploration and if you have the skill in kiting his downside is non-existent allowing for nearly unmatched world progression/boss rush ability for skilled players.

[Arcwell]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Dont use beefalos for combat is the easiest solution. Otherwise i think these new mechanics give the ornery beefalo a well needed downside as its an infinite tentacle spike, mag/cane and regenerating 80% armour all in one package. 

The issue is it's not a proportional downside.

If you get knocked off your beefalo and the beefalo aggros that enemy, you cannot mount it again until it loses aggro, which it usually doesn't, because it keeps attacking the enemy. This can lead to scenarios where you get hit once and lose 20 days of progress for it. It's fair to punish the player for getting hit, sure, but that much? For one hit? I genuinely wouldn't mind getting knocked off the beefalo if I could at least re-mount it.

Personally, I LOVE fighting bosses with an ornery beefalo despite the fact that it has roughly the same DPS as a pick/axe (on regular characters). Even the new planar bosses are a great time to fight on a beefalo, but I'm highly discouraged from doing so because one hit means my beef is dead. With other bosses, I know when my beef's health gets low because of the 200 hp warning, and I can make the decision to play risky or back off.

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Arcwell said:

The issue is it's not a proportional downside.

If you get knocked off your beefalo and the beefalo aggros that enemy, you cannot mount it again until it loses aggro, which it usually doesn't, because it keeps attacking the enemy. This can lead to scenarios where you get hit once and lose 20 days of progress for it. It's fair to punish the player for getting hit, sure, but that much? For one hit? I genuinely wouldn't mind getting knocked off the beefalo if I could at least re-mount it.

Personally, I LOVE fighting bosses with an ornery beefalo despite the fact that it has roughly the same DPS as a pick/axe (on regular characters). Even the new planar bosses are a great time to fight on a beefalo, but I'm highly discouraged from doing so because one hit means my beef is dead. With other bosses, I know when my beef's health gets low because of the 150 hp warning, and I can make the decision to play risky or back off.

Yeah its a new downside for using an ornery beefalo for combat. Whats the problem? Klei clearly want us to use planar weapons for the new post-rift mobs. Ornery is still good as ever for all previous content/fights apart from nightmare werepig.

Maybe taming a rider beefalo for transport only and leaving it outside of the combat range is a better way to invest the 20days of taming? 

More downsides forces us to weight different options and different strategies. Which is the exact thing you are now doing! And thats a good thing! This is a game design win for Klei.

[Lardee]

I actually like that all the newer enemies knock the player off of the Beefalo.  With the introduction of Planar damage, old forms of armor are suppose to be obsolete since so much of the damage gets through.  However since Beefalo absorb 100% of the damage and take full damage anyway, they effectively allow the player to treat Planar attacks the same way as they do normal ones. 

 

Because of this, I think all these new enemies kicking the player off the Beefalo was intentional on Klei's part in order to greatly encourage players to use the newer armors that offer planar defense.  Plus, fighting on Beefalo is still an option, it's just way more dangerous which means this downside can be overcome with enough skill.

 

 

[Fufuji]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

So wendys 0.75x damage effects a beefalo too??

When on a beefalo, only certain damage mults are taken into consideration.

They are:

1. Damage boost from saddles. Currently only War Saddle.

2. Total physical damage mults. Currently only Chili Flakes buff from the beefalo.

3. The electrical damage tag. Currently only from the rider eating Volt Goat Chaud-Froid.

4. Special damage boosts. Currently only Abigail's +40% and Wanda's +0%.

All other damage mults are ignored. Including debuffs.

[Arcwell]

11 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

I'm ready for the 3rd warning but damn are you stupid.

...what?

[Lardee]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Right now taming an ornery beefalo is overwhelmingly the main strategy for wendy players (why use any other strategy?). I feel this slight nerf will encourage wendy players to engage with other weapons the game has to offer and if a new potion is added to bring back the 40% damage to the ornery beefalo and to buff other players aswell then that way it isnt really a permanent nerf. 

This is like saying Klei should nerf the Alarming Clock because Wanda players need to be encouraged to use other weapons.

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Lardee said:

This is like saying Klei should nerf the Alarming Clock because Wanda players need to be encouraged to use other weapons.

I mean they have lol wanda also needs a completely new planar clock but definitely not any skills that boost the current alarming clock.

15 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

4. Special damage boosts. Currently only Abigail's +40% and Wanda's +0%.

I guess this is a fully intended interaction. Oh well seems ornery beefalo reins supreme for wendy mains 

[lenship2]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

I mean they have lol wanda also needs a completely new planar clock but definitely not any skills that boost the current alarming clock.

shadow reaper my beloved

[Gashzer]

27 minutes ago, lenship2 said:

shadow reaper my beloved

What is the damage difference between alarming clock and shadow reaper? Does old wanda boost it? Havnt tried using it with her yet

[Arcwell]

37 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

What is the damage difference between alarming clock and shadow reaper? Does old wanda boost it? Havnt tried using it with her yet

Old Wanda does boost shadow reaper's physical damage. Here are the damage values:

• Alarming clock vs. normal enemy: 142.8
• Shadow Reaper w/void cowl 6th hit vs. normal enemy: 120.15
• Alarming clock vs. planar entity: ~68.81
• Shadow Reaper w/void cowl 6th hit vs. planar entity: ~90.54
• Shadow Reaper w/void cowl 6th hit vs. lunar planar entity: ~98.27

For 1st hit instead of 6th, just subtract 20 damage from it. (edit: or 22 if it's specifically vs. lunar planar entity)

[Hornete]

27 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

What is the damage difference between alarming clock and shadow reaper? Does old wanda boost it? Havnt tried using it with her yet

Here's a simple list a friend made(it was a while ago so it may have slightly changed but I believe it remains mostly the same)

Old Wanda will still boost the physical damage of shadow reaper, not the planar damage.

Honestly! I've really been enjoying using Shadow Reaper as Wanda a lot. As much as I enjoy alarming clock as a weapon it was always boring with it being the dominant weapon over everything else. Alarming Clock still has it's great usage post-planar for being a safe option due to its range, but Shadow Reaper will be better for dealing with the planar gang

I think Shadow Reaper could still stand to be better on Wanda for purposes of pre-planar enemies (Alarming Clock still mostly dominates in that department)

[Cheggf]

6 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Dont use beefalos for combat is the easiest solution. Otherwise i think these new mechanics give the ornery beefalo a well needed downside as its an infinite tentacle spike, mag/cane and regenerating 80% armour all in one package. 

Ps. Klei pls remove abigails 40% damage boost to mounted beefalo attacks, it should be 10% as wendy isn't technically doing the attacking. And then add a new potion that boosts the damage of other players/followers/mounted beefalo/any damage really by 30 to 40% to the skill tree. 

Being completely unusable in 1% of situations isn't a "downside", and does nothing to address it being overpowered in the other 99% of situations. What would actually be a downside is if marble armor prevented knockback, so being on the beefalo requires you to be wearing marble armor instead of something else. 

[lenship2]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

What is the damage difference between alarming clock and shadow reaper? Does old wanda boost it? Havnt tried using it with her yet

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, lenship2 said:

Lenship2 wins the award for most detailed explanation of Wanda's damage potential. I shall retract my thanks from both Hornette and Arcwell, you guys got outclassed..... Gg ez wp 

[Arcwell]

17 minutes ago, lenship2 said:

I think your Lunar Planar section is a little off. the 10% alignment damage gets multiplied in before planar entity resistance, not after. The result is you get slightly less than you would by multiplying total damage by 1.1, because the physical portion is affected by planar entity resistance.

For example, your table says 6th hit with void set should deal ~99.59 or 99.6 rounded, but in-game I'm getting ~98.27, or 98.3 rounded.

For reference, the formula I'm using for this damage calc is:
=(SQRT(41.8 * 1.75 * 1.1 * 4 + 64) - 8) * 4 + 47 * 1.1
or more simply:
planar resist(phys dmg * alignment) + (plan dmg * alignment)

[lenship2]

18 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

I think your Lunar Planar section is a little off. the 10% alignment damage gets multiplied in before planar entity resistance, not after. The result is you get slightly less than you would by multiplying total damage by 1.1, because the physical portion is affected by planar entity resistance.

For example, your table says 6th hit with void set should deal ~99.59 or 99.6 rounded, but in-game I'm getting ~98.27, or 98.3 rounded.

For reference, the formula I'm using for this damage calc is:
=(SQRT(41.8 * 1.75 * 1.1 * 4 + 64) - 8) * 4 + 47 * 1.1
or more simply:
planar resist(phys dmg * alignment) + (plan dmg * alignment)

oop

i was using a function of =(number)*1.1 for the lunar multipliers, i'll correct it

[DownloadADuck]

7 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Walter has a much higher skill floor-ceiling. Has all the utility of a beefalo without the need to tame one

How does Walter have all the utility of a beefalo when woby cannot attack, and no damage is ever absorbed and if you even get hit once (or twice with thul armour) you are vulnerable to being attacked even more. Also having you use monster meat whenever you want to ride/to keep her big compared to one twig or grass

[Jakepeng99]

16 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Dont use beefalos for combat is the easiest solution. Otherwise i think these new mechanics give the ornery beefalo a well needed downside as its an infinite tentacle spike, mag/cane and regenerating 80% armour all in one package. 

Ps. Klei pls remove abigails 40% damage boost to mounted beefalo attacks, it should be 10% as wendy isn't technically doing the attacking. And then add a new potion that boosts the damage of other players/followers/mounted beefalo/any damage really by 30 to 40% to the skill tree. 

The downside is if they die, you need to spend ages getting one again. Getting knocked of every hit isn't a good downside, it is just dumb.

Also the wendy beefalo synergy is cool why remove it.

[Gashzer]

8 hours ago, DownloadADuck said:

How does Walter have all the utility of a beefalo when woby cannot attack, and no damage is ever absorbed and if you even get hit once (or twice with thul armour) you are vulnerable to being attacked even more. Also having you use monster meat whenever you want to ride/to keep her big compared to one twig or grass

Attacking on a beefalo is much weaker than people realize, its convenient having an infinite weapon but normal weapons are much stronger an quicker to obtain when rushing i.e for a skilled player using beefalo for attacking isnt great. To get a beefalo going you need to craft a saddle and a bell and then find beefalo this takes a good bit of time and then the beefalo bucks you alot for a few days. All woby needs is you to find spiders or tentacles and boom lots of speed without worry about bucking while travelling.

It takes 20days to tame an ornery meaning you have a weak 34 damage on your beefalo for the whole time. Its better having woby for these 20days and using a hambat that does 59.5-44 damage if you keep makin fresh ones before they hit spear damage. You can rush ruins with woby without worrying about a rogue rook ending your beefalos life. Being insane from combat damage is a good thing for nightmare fuel farming for crafting ruins gear... just slam back blue caps for healing. Hence walter is great for skilled players.

Now why i make a big deal about it taking 20-25days to tame a beefalo is because in them same 20-25days or so i can kill dfly, shadow pieces, nightmare werepig and ancient guardian. While also have rushed archive, ruins, explored whole map, found lunar and assembled altar, upgraded celestial portal and have a moon idol. All this is achieved because of Walter having a high skill ceiling. If you dont get hit walter loses no sanity to insanity auras of bosses too. Perfect for nightmare werepig.

After i have the entire map explored and have the celestial portal with a walking cane an mag. I can now switch to wolfgang for the rest of the game cause i no longer need the speed boost/utility a beefalo or woby can provide. Wolfgang does alot more damage than a beefalo with none of the effort wendy needs to put in.

I believe if you want a meta way to progress in DST, this is it. Without void walking or cheating ofc lol

[Cheggf]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Attacking on a beefalo is much weaker than people realize, its convenient having an infinite weapon but normal weapons are much stronger an quicker to obtain when rushing i.e for a skilled player using beefalo for attacking isnt great.

So why is it then that you want to keep riders being dismounted in combat to give them a "well needed downside" to counteract how powerful it is that they're "an infinite tentacle spike, mag/cane and regenerating 80% armour all in one package"?