which character needs more cool skins and a skill tree?

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, lenship2 said:

literally all willow needs is a base insight skill that could act as an anti-smoldering aura and/or a way to just prevent fire from spreading (and preventing ash drops)

Fires should not happen less around a pyromaniac...

58 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This is false really casual players usually don't use the moon rock idol that's generally veterans as the average player doesn't really care about min maxing.

Casual players rarely play them at all lol

[WONTow]

Obviously I'm biased, but Willow really is a nothing character lmao.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Casual players rarely play them at all lol

I mean they play Warly more than the rest of the less played characters heck I've seen more Warlys than Wolfgang before he got his skill tree. Winona is a ghost though I admit...

[Brago-sama]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Fires should not happen less around a pyromaniac...

I could totally see a perk slot that has an arrow pointed towards smoldering (even slightly offscreen)

Lore wise, it could just be her 6th sense and getting excited aboit a potential fire (although most players would just go to the source and extinguish so idk)

[Cheggf]

8 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

It is relevant though most of the hate is based on her old griefer rep established by specific players and magnified by youTubers but imagine how bad that rep would get if she suddenly was encouraged to use fire alot and it began causing a lot of accidents? People were already raising concerns about Wolfgang's flame dumbell and that doesn't really see use imagine giving Willow a useful fire based perk?

WX's mechanics encourage him to hoard gears for himself, Wigfrid can easily eliminate all the rocks and gold from a hoard, and as you say yourself Wolfgang literally got a fire perk and nobody gets mad when someone picks Wolfgang. Wolfgang is arguably more fire related than Willow at this point, and yet the stigma against Willow still remains. Not because she actually does anything, but just because it exists. The stigma exists because the stigma exists.

3 hours ago, Brago-sama said:

I could totally see a perk slot that has an arrow pointed towards smoldering (even slightly offscreen)

Lore wise, it could just be her 6th sense and getting excited aboit a potential fire (although most players would just go to the source and extinguish so idk)

6 hours ago, lenship2 said:

literally all willow needs is a base insight skill that could act as an anti-smoldering aura and/or a way to just prevent fire from spreading (and preventing ash drops)

Stop being Klei. If wildfires are an issue then that issue should be addressed, not having some random band-aid be given to an arbitrary character so if you're playing as that one single specific character the issue is less problematic but too bad if you're absolutely anyone else.

[Brago-sama]

6 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Stop being Klei.

Nah, imma keep making suggestions. You do you tho

[lenship2]

23 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Stop being Klei.

bruh

it was supposed to be so that lighting enemies on fire won't spread, summer would just happen to fall into that category

i'm not even trying to be klei, i'm just providing concepts

[masterjames18]

I would say Woodie definitively NEEDS Skins for his Were-formes!!! Klei could really make some interesting were-skins based around other animals of the constant (bearger skin, moosgoose skin, Warg skin, clockwork skins, etc..) or even anything else really be it real or fantasy (like bears, wendigos, werewolfs, etc..)

For a skill tree i would love to see one for Webber, Wurt or Walter :3

[Castiliano]

19 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This is false really casual players usually don't use the moon rock idol that's generally veterans as the average player doesn't really care about min maxing.

It's not false, to me. I don't think veterans would disrespect a characters that way, so if they do, I consider them casual. Just thinking of a different philosophy.

Quote

This argument has never made sense to me what about him doesn't fit his character?

About Walter, I essentially recommend reading that here: 

A practical example of something that doesn't fit the character is Wortox gaining sanity by dropping souls just because of players arguing that they couldn't handle the character's loss of sanity; Maxwell using Wickerbottom's loyal grumble bees. Currently, I believe Mawell is more "ranged" than Walter. I hope things line up soon.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Castiliano said:

About Walter, I essentially recommend reading that here: 

A practical example of something that doesn't fit the character is Wortox gaining sanity by dropping souls just because of players arguing that they couldn't handle the character's loss of sanity; Maxwell using Wickerbottom's loyal grumble bees. Currently, I believe Mawell is more "ranged" than Walter. I hope things line up soon.

You do realize I was already a part of that thread right? That being said there's tons of things that don't really fit if you stretch it but people accept because "lore". You got Wendy somehow being friends with all ghosts just because she has a dead sister or being a ghost alchemist. Wolfgang being a strongman has nothing to do with being scared. Heck everyone brings up how Bernie doesn't really make sense to be Willow's perk but noone's talking about how weird it is Willow is susceptible to cold. Being a pyromaniac doesn't mean you become a fire elemental. I could go on with the rest of the cast and include characters like Wilson but there's nothing about Walter that doesn't fit under quirky exaggerated trait and boy scout so he's on the same footing as the rest of the cast it's just people try really hard to pretend his perks have no connections to his character because he doesn't have years worth of lore implications backing him up.

1 hour ago, Castiliano said:

It's not false, to me. I don't think veterans would disrespect a characters that way, so if they do, I consider them casual. Just thinking of a different philosophy.

First off a large base of casual players don't even know about the celestial portal and the people who use it are usually doing so to min max and that is not a casual activity one does not casually min max. Am I saying absolutely no casual player ever uses the portal? No but even when they do it's usually because they just want to try another character rather than combing every perk to min max.

15 hours ago, Cheggf said:

WX's mechanics encourage him to hoard gears for himself, Wigfrid can easily eliminate all the rocks and gold from a hoard, and as you say yourself Wolfgang literally got a fire perk and nobody gets mad when someone picks Wolfgang. Wolfgang is arguably more fire related than Willow at this point, and yet the stigma against Willow still remains. Not because she actually does anything, but just because it exists. The stigma exists because the stigma exists.

Feel like you entirely missed my point I'm not worried about people intentionally griefing I'm more so worried about a character that's ideal playstyle would become use fire as much as possible greatly increasing the odds of things going wrong without a safe guard ability. While I do think giving Wolfgang a fire dumbell was a bad idea it's somewhat saved by the fact it's not really too useful compared to the ice bell and thermal bell.

[Cheggf]

37 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Feel like you entirely missed my point I'm not worried about people intentionally griefing I'm more so worried about a character that's ideal playstyle would become use fire as much as possible greatly increasing the odds of things going wrong without a safe guard ability.

So Willow should stay a bad character because you're so scared of people afking at base until hounds show up who they then burn, but also don't want to even make a single flingomatic to stop this situation you're deathly afraid of? Fire only spreads near players, even if you're fighting things in a forest with fire and you burn the forest it isn't like it's going to spread anywhere important. 

47 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

While I do think giving Wolfgang a fire dumbell was a bad idea it's somewhat saved by the fact it's not really too useful compared to the ice bell and thermal bell.

https://cdn.forums.klei.com/monthly_2023_07/firebellspiderqueen.mp4.cf1d881b99c815baaf0b5fae29f810ee.mp4

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

So Willow should stay a bad character because you're so scared of people afking at base until hounds show up who they then burn, but also don't want to even make a single flingomatic to stop this situation you're deathly afraid of?

First who ever said Willow should stay bad. Second when did afking at base ever come into the conversation hell when did bases even enter the conversation? Believe it or not fire effects more than base.

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

greatly increasing the odds of things going wrong without a safe guard ability.

Also it's already been suggested by someone else to give a safe guard ability which is what I was hinting at here but sure go on slandering me about how I somehow said people were afking at base and noone should apparently build flingos.

Also as for the video you killed a spider queen l'm not sure what the point of it is.

[Cheggf]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

First who ever said Willow should stay bad. Second when did afking at base ever come into the conversation hell when did bases even enter the conversation? Believe it or not fire effects more than base.

Also it's already been suggested by someone else to give a safe guard ability which is what I was hinting at here but sure go on slandering me about how I somehow said people were afking at base and noone should apparently build flingos.

What fire problems are you thinking of 

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

What fire problems are you thinking of 

Mainly loot becoming ash but various resources can be destroyed by fire if your not careful it's the very reason fire isn't a popular combat method which is why a safe guard ability as stupid as it would feel from a gameplay and lore perspective would be needed.

To be clear though I don't mind bases burning down from survival mechanics but I don't feel the game should lean too heavily into character abilities that increase the odds of causing accidents that can devastate resources, bases, or make you accidently delete loot.

[Yuuko]

5 hours ago, Castiliano said:

It's not false, to me. I don't think veterans would disrespect a characters that way, so if they do, I consider them casual. Just thinking of a different philosophy.

 

I don't think that is a good line to draw.  Usually casual players are defined by people who enjoy a game but don't put much effort into improvement.  Nothing stops a casual player from being good, they might even reference wiki and yt videos about how to do things in game, they just prioritize the social aspects of the game over the difficult ones.  Veterans or experienced players are ones who know the ins and outs of the game and while they might be character loyalists who don't swap to combine powers there are definitely extremely skilled, long experienced players who swap portals for different reasons one of those being to maximize on combined powers.

We should make sure we're on the same page if we're going to use terms like that.  Also fwiw I don't think "disrespecting the character" is a good way to describe swapping for powers.  Swapping to Warly to cook or Winona to set up catapults is respecting what they're good at just ditching what they're bad at.

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I'm not worried about people intentionally griefing I'm more so worried about a character that's ideal playstyle would become use fire as much as possible greatly increasing the odds of things going wrong without a safe guard ability. While I do think giving Wolfgang a fire dumbell was a bad idea it's somewhat saved by the fact it's not really too useful compared to the ice bell and thermal bell.

Contrariwise - I think it would be cool if Willow was given a set of very useful yet risky fire related abilities.  I don't think the suggested slower smolder / spread is a good idea.  imo this is a similarly bad approach as her being insane = becoming cold.  Let her use fire as an actually useful thing, and let it be risky.  If a Willow burns down a base on accident that becomes part of the fun and is not griefing.  If a Willow griefs, she could have done so with a torch or hammer anyway...

I'd like to see something about her increasing fire / heat damage and duration in some way.  It should be some type of aura thing, like maybe if her sanity is below Bernie threshold then fire / heat damage and duration are doubled within 7 tiles of her as her insane mind fuels the fires.  Or maybe an oil she can put on a target that lets them be lit on fire for double duration / damage similar to wetting targets with water balloons.

Would lighting bearger on fire increase risk of things burning out of control?  Yes.  Is this griefing?  No.  Would it be cool?  Absolutely!!!

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Contrariwise - I think it would be cool if Willow was given a set of very useful yet risky fire related abilities.  I don't think the suggested slower smolder / spread is a good idea.  imo this is a similarly bad approach as her being insane = becoming cold.  Let her use fire as an actually useful thing, and let it be risky.  If a Willow burns down a base on accident that becomes part of the fun and is not griefing.

Despite the stance I have on the matter I wholeheartedly agree here and want the game as a whole to embrace this approach with content overall however Kiel would have to fight tooth and nail to get the community as a whole to accept it as there's nothing this community hates more than the potiental to lose progress sadly despite how against the spirit of the game it is...

 

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

I'd like to see something about her increasing fire / heat damage and duration in some way.  It should be some type of aura thing, like maybe if her sanity is below Bernie threshold then fire / heat damage and duration are doubled within 7 tiles of her as her insane mind fuels the fires.  Or maybe an oil she can put on a target that lets them be lit on fire for double duration / damage similar to wetting targets with water balloons.

Would lighting bearger on fire increase risk of things burning out of control?  Yes.  Is this griefing?  No.  Would it be cool?  Absolutely!!!

Yea it would definitely be the best way to handle her in the ideal world perhaps even giving Willow a makeshift hp bar for enemies represented as a flame to help her slightly determine when to ease up on flames to help skilled players better use fires without damaging her loot.

[Curly Bill]

i really want to see some Willow fire perks; The pyromaniac aspect is honestly the draw of the character. I wanna see more modes of combat centered around fire as well. A weapon that deals more damage to players on fire would be nice, an aura that wont let fire spread when you put an enemy on fire would be cool, enemies killed while on fire not dropping cooked versions of their drops would be good too.

Essentially i think Fire play just needs a use outside of warming self in winter, and gathering charcoal. :P maybe the firestaff can finally get a use

[Jandri]

I would like Willow to be reworked, but what if the fire itself was reworked instead?

[Castiliano]

On 8/24/2023 at 2:45 PM, Shosuko said:

I don't think that is a good line to draw.  Usually casual players are defined by people who enjoy a game but don't put much effort into improvement.  Nothing stops a casual player from being good, they might even reference wiki and yt videos about how to do things in game, they just prioritize the social aspects of the game over the difficult ones.  Veterans or experienced players are ones who know the ins and outs of the game and while they might be character loyalists who don't swap to combine powers there are definitely extremely skilled, long experienced players who swap portals for different reasons one of those being to maximize on combined powers.

We should make sure we're on the same page if we're going to use terms like that.  Also fwiw I don't think "disrespecting the character" is a good way to describe swapping for powers.  Swapping to Warly to cook or Winona to set up catapults is respecting what they're good at just ditching what they're bad at.

As I said, we may be talking about different points, with different philosophies. Using the example I gave, switching to a character and playing with it for 5 (or a few minutes) is to disrespect the character, at least FOR ME. I'm taking into account that skill trees can be defining and thought about as well, making the characters more inviting to play with them — I really hope Warly's spices work more efficiently on Warly itself, etc.

[Jakepeng99]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:56 PM, Cheggf said:

How would he even look different? Age doesn't change your size, and he's completely obscured by the spider.

Right now he is a little child, so i think he will outgrow the spider and burst out of it like an xeno morph.

4 hours ago, Jandri said:

I would like Willow to be reworked, but what if the fire itself was reworked instead?

Or why not both?

[Dr.Webber]

On 8/22/2023 at 5:39 PM, Brago-sama said:

Adult Webber

That would be cool 

wouldn’t it be cool if Webber’s sides picked different sides in the canon and we get a third alignment skin for him it could be called the war torn skin or the spider king skin or symbiosis skin

[Dr. Safety]

I think the characters I like deserve cool skins and skill trees, and the ones I don't like don't deserve them

[mimimama15]

Wanda has no good skin

[Creatorofswamps]

On 8/22/2023 at 8:52 PM, mkemal23 said:

He did get a skill tree spotlight update, but not an actual rework update. Not only that, He didn't even get an Archaic skin. He desperately needs an another update

I agree with you